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Jenner
Jun 5, 2011
Lowtax banned me because he thought I was trolling by acting really stupid. I wasn't acting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJFbsQBvLw

What happened to Final Fantasy?

I remember the old games very fondly. I thought they were alright. Some of them were even good (some were really good.) Is that just nostalgia? Lower expectations of quality because I was an idiot child? Were FF games always bad?

In my opinion, in the early days of Final Fantasy each new game in the series built and improved off the ones preceeding it. Square seemed to learn from each game and make the next game better/more interesting in various ways. The constant improvements that came with each successive game meant that the world, the story, and the characters got more developed and interesting as the series progressed.

I could take the time to talk about every Final Fantasy. I could ramble on about the aspects of every game and how they grew and improved with each game but that would take forever and be so the TL;DR is that the series started with composite characters with no real drives or any personality to speak of, a vague world, and an ultimate evil that came out of loving nowhere in FF1 and developed into a game with rich, well developed characters with their own drives and unique personalities, a deep and detailed world and history, a largely comprehensible story and plot, and a known villain with a history and purpose in FF6+

So what happened to Final Fantasy? Well, here's my diagnosis.

I feel the series really started to get its bearings with FF4 and reached its pinnacle with FF6, which is the best game in the series (fight me IRL.) And that the series loses its vision, goes off the rails, and completely jumps the shark with FF7. (There is a brief reprieve with FF9, the third best game in the series, before it goes right back to being either aggressively mediocre or downright lovely.)

If Final Fantasy VI is the first best and Final Fantasy IX is the third best what's the second best?
Final Fantasy Tactics.

Anyway, I think Final Fantasy VII is what happened to Final Fantasy. I could write up a long rear end rant about how FF7 not only sent the FF series into the toilet but also did irreparable damage to virtually all video games as a whole but I'm just going to keep it short and say that Square focused most of its energy and resources on making FF7 look as pretty and impressive as possible and the story, plot, and characters were obviously an afterthought. The game suffered for it, it really was not good and if you think it was you are wrong.

But, despite being not that good, FF7 was a commercial success. And because of FF7's massive popularity and profitability Square, along with almost the entire video game industry, embraced the trend of prioritizing graphics over actual substance with frankly depressing results.

Since FF7, the whole series has been getting progressively worse with each new game (with the exception of FF9. Also I have heard some good things about the MMO but. ) And Sqaure have made amazing design choices like padding out their games by adding in collectathon nonsense and nearly impossible to get ultimate weapons (gently caress dodging lightning.) Adding entire sections of "game play" solely designed to waste time. Where you spend actual hours of your life having no fun, doing nothing important, and not progressing the plot whatsoever. And adding in hours long battles, not boss battles, regular loving battles.

And Final Fantasy XV is shaping up to be the ultimate expression of meaningless, time wasting, unfun nonsense.

But hey, if you've got the time, check out Brainweasel's LP of FF X-2 because she makes a not good game look really good.

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Vermain
Sep 5, 2006




Jenner posted:

Anyway, I think Final Fantasy VII is what happened to Final Fantasy. I could write up a long rear end rant about how FF7 not only sent the FF series into the toilet but also did irreparable damage to virtually all video games as a whole but I'm just going to keep it short and say that Square focused most of its energy and resources on making FF7 look as pretty and impressive as possible and the story, plot, and characters were obviously an afterthought. The game suffered for it, it really was not good and if you think it was you are wrong.

Could you please explain this in more detail? What about the story, plot, and characters were "obviously an afterthought"? I question this specifically because the fondest memories people have about this particular game are the story and characters. All of the FF7 core cast remain highly recognizable and marketable to this day, to the extent that FF7 is the first FF game that is getting a remastered version because of that popularity. That would indicate to me that the story and characters both had broad appeal to the target audience of the FF series.

Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

Haters gonna hate


FF7's story quality is definitely dubious, but it's anything but an afterthought.

Saintv77
Aug 5, 2008



All the old people who actually made the games you liked left.

fin

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



FF15 looks fun. Do you like fun OP?

FFX-2 is also good.

i am tim!
Jan 5, 2005

God damn it, where are my ant keys?! I'm gonna miss my flight!

What happened to Final Fantasy?

They stopped making games targeting my demographic after the market changed, but rather than accept that simple fact or justify my statement I'm going to say they're wrong.

Good soup!
Nov 1, 2010

I slap box with Jesus
lick shots at Joseph




Lipstick Apathy

Nail Rat posted:

FF7's story quality is definitely dubious, but it's anything but an afterthought.

Yeah this. Although I wonder how much of the story got hosed up by the apparently bad translating job that was done? It's been a long time since I read up on any of it.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011



Saintv77 posted:

All the old people who actually made the games you liked left.

fin

Pretty much this, the franchise is just moving with the times, for better or worse.

Terper
Jun 26, 2012



If it makes you feel better OP Tabata (the director's) fav FF is 6

evilmiera
Dec 14, 2009

Status:Perpetually fearful

Judge Tesla posted:

Pretty much this, the franchise is just moving with the times, for better or worse.

Personally I don't think the times want boring games though.

I mean, yes, Cookie Clicker and games like that exist but I don't know if there's much overlap between gamers who want to play actual Skinner boxes and people who play FF. Unless we're talking FF8.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

pachi pachi pachi


The Spirits Within

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich


Jenner posted:

What happened to Final Fantasy?

It started off bad, then became good, but then got bad again, but now looks great and i want to gently caress prompto

i am tim!
Jan 5, 2005

God damn it, where are my ant keys?! I'm gonna miss my flight!

Phantasium posted:

The Spirits Within

All joking aside, this is probably the best answer to the thread title's question.

Edit: vv I still think it's funny that FFXIV was saved when they took it away from one of the few people left in the company that had been with the franchise from Day 1.

i am tim! fucked around with this message at Nov 15, 2016 around 17:07

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich


i am tim! posted:

All joking aside, this is probably the best answer to the thread title's question.

Between this, the entirety of FF13's trilogy/meta-series, and FF14 before reboot, the Final Fantasy brand has taken a pretty healthy beating.

However, the OPs premise is still pretty uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh because it really comes down to "GAMES JUST AREN'T AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE" that old farts like us frequently get trapped into saying when we want to unveil just how old and out of touch we are when it comes to videogames today.

Videogames today are actually good and cool, and even the worst final fantasy's (which is a heavily subjective thing, unless you're talking about 2, which is as close to irredeemable as any game in the franchise has ever gotten) have aspects of them that attract ardent fans. Placing the blame specifically on FF7, of all games, is an argument that smacks heavily of fedorable hipster bullshit, a step short of declaring that you liked Final Fantasy BEFORE it became cool, which is horseshit because as we all know people started loving Final Fantasy after they played Chrono Trigger and learned that these guys made other games too, they aren't as good but hey Final Fantasy 7 is coming out on playstation NEXT YEAR OMG.

High school was great

Coco Rodreguiz
Jan 12, 2007

Peckerhead isn't used enough as an insult if you ask me.


Final fantasy was always anime. It just wasn't obvious until the graphics reached a point that it became more apparent.

Also Chrono Trigger that you love? 100% anime.

Sixfools
Aug 27, 2005

Some times if we're losing I'll just sit in the spawn and get all Kritz'd out


When I was a child and had birthday money to buy a videogame for my new playstation, I was all set to get FF7, I got FFT instead as a last minute impulse and have been happy with that choice in life ever since.

frank.club
Jan 15, 2011


your brain is broken op

g0lbez
Dec 25, 2004

and then you'll beg

FF7 was good and the materia system was one of the best gameplay aspects of the series to date. Also my favorite final fantasy is 12 so bring it bitch

frank.club
Jan 15, 2011


12 is pretty good

g0lbez
Dec 25, 2004

and then you'll beg

frank.club posted:

12 is pretty good

They realized with 12 that fighting hordes of trash mobs sucked but with a jrpg there was no way around it, so what's the best alternative? Just program your dudes to do that poo poo for you! it's genius

Elmon
Aug 20, 2013



They felt the need to modernize the combat. And modern JRPG combat is garbage. That's always been my problem with newer FF games.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


I think SquareEnix realized that all we really want is cute fictional boys.

Dual Monarchy
Feb 20, 2013


I'm inclined to agree with 'everyone who worked on the games you like left years ago' but I guess if I'm gonna try engage with that premise I'm going to say... maybe because they ended up leaning too heavily on visuals as a crutch and everything else came second?
My personal favourites are a toss up between 6, 9 and 12, if this flavours the opinion any.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


6 is the best one, 15 is second best, the worst one is all of them tied for last

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich


Arcland posted:

They felt the need to modernize the combat. And modern JRPG combat is garbage. That's always been my problem with newer FF games.

Traditional FF combat is dull as gently caress compared to modern videogames in general/Final Fantasy 12/Tactics so I am okay with never, ever, ever getting a Final Fantasy that plays like FF1-10 again.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

At least the music is still pretty great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry-jYNH946E

Neron
Jan 14, 2008



I'm the one guy who actually liked 8.

g0lbez
Dec 25, 2004

and then you'll beg

Neron posted:

I'm the one guy who actually liked 8.

I'm the other guy

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

I'm replaying FFX-2 right now and I have to say I like it a lot more now than I did when it first came out. Sure, having to follow along with a guide so I don't miss anything for 100% is stupid as hell, but other than that it's fun.

Astrochicken
Aug 13, 2007


FF7 was like meth, and the rest of the series since has been the psychotic depressive nightmarish comedown. FFXV ain't gonna cut it and we should all go into recovery.

Astrochicken fucked around with this message at Nov 15, 2016 around 17:50

Chair In A Basket
Aug 6, 2005

I'm basically Jesus.


Nap Ghost

I've never played a final fantasy game in my life I don't think. Maybe I rented one of the ones on the SNES a few times when I was a kid. But nowadays I play final fantasy Record Keeper (FFRK) on my phone. My favorite characters so far are Faris, Beatrix, Ramza, Vaan and Sephiroth. If I wanted to start playing a console/pc final fantasy, which one would be good for me?

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Horned hellgod from another dimension and also trans


FF12 is a literal soporific to me. When I sat down to play it I would find myself falling asleep. Consistently. It's the most boring-rear end poo poo since FFIX. Which is also bad. Like Tactics.

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich


Mister Adequate posted:

FF12 is a literal soporific to me. When I sat down to play it I would find myself falling asleep. Consistently. It's the most boring-rear end poo poo since FFIX. Which is also bad. Like Tactics.

MODS

lalaland
Nov 8, 2012


FF15 is gon be poo poo

Coco Rodreguiz
Jan 12, 2007

Peckerhead isn't used enough as an insult if you ask me.


The biggest tragedy is Square never got behind Triple Triad like they should have. They struck gold on that mini game and have never come close to topping it.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


g0lbez posted:

They realized with 12 that fighting hordes of trash mobs sucked but with a jrpg there was no way around it, so what's the best alternative? Just program your dudes to do that poo poo for you! it's genius

12 is easily my second favorite except maybe the mmo which hardly counts.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?

Fun Shoe

final fantasy is...good

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009



Lightning Returns has the best combat and music in the whole series.

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

Chair In A Basket posted:

I've never played a final fantasy game in my life I don't think. Maybe I rented one of the ones on the SNES a few times when I was a kid. But nowadays I play final fantasy Record Keeper (FFRK) on my phone. My favorite characters so far are Faris, Beatrix, Ramza, Vaan and Sephiroth. If I wanted to start playing a console/pc final fantasy, which one would be good for me?

Final Fantasy V has the most customization with it's job system. That one has Faris.

Final Fantasy Tactics is also good, but completely different from regular Final Fantasys. That's the one with Ramza.

EDIT: Is is Final Fantasys or Final Fantasies?

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guts and bolts
May 16, 2015

Have you heard the Good News?

Jenner posted:

The game suffered for it, it really was not good and if you think it [FF7] was you are wrong.

Final Fantasy 7 is good though and if you disagree you're wrong

Final Fantasy 6 on the other hand is in fact kinda bad, as is Final Fantasy 9, whereas Tactics is probably the high point of the entire franchise

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