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Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Jenner posted:

But, despite being not that good, FF7 was a commercial success. And because of FF7's massive popularity and profitability Square, along with almost the entire video game industry, embraced the trend of prioritizing graphics over actual substance with frankly depressing results.

Did you ever play Wild Arms 1 for PS1 back in the day? It came out before FF7 did, and it had a similar style of superdeformed 3D combat graphics. I bring this up because your argument that it was FF7 that singlehandedly ruined the aesthetics of every game to come after it is flawed on its face. Developers were already using 3D for combat graphics in PS1 RPGs well before FF7 came out.

For that matter, what's this about emphasis on graphics being some kind of new trend brought about in the late 90s by one single popular RPG? Did you see the quality of the graphic art in FF6? They utilized the SNES's graphical capabilities to create something visually impressive that couldn't have been done on its predecessor system, the NES. Why shouldn't they try to improve their quality when they move to a new medium with higher display capabilities and storage capacity? If you want to blame something, how about blaming the PS1 for ever existing as a disc-based media system?

I'm not sure what your gripe is, exactly. Do you want more sprite-based games? Do you want every game to have a story like FF6's?

I'll come at this from the other perspective. Growing up, I played every FF game that came out in the US, in order. I enjoyed all of them. When I got FF7 at launch, I also enjoyed that game, possibly even more than all the ones that had come before it. Yet every time I want to have a discussion in a public environment about this game which I liked 20 years ago, I get people like you interjecting and informing me that FF6 was better, as if they could demonstrate their superior intellect/taste and show me the error of my ways. Whenever FF7 (or 8) comes up in a discussion, for some reason, people feel either obligated or entitled to inform others why the game being discussed is bad, regardless of what the discussion is about or whether the opinion was asked for. This only happens with FF games, by the way - Nobody (at least in my experience) does this with Dragon Quest or Suikoden or Wild Arms, despite each series having one or more very obvious stinkers in it. It's like the phrase FF7 flips some switch in the heads of 30-somethings that immediately removes any filters or manners they may have had before.

Basically, there's no answer to your questions that will ever satisfy you.

Hokuto fucked around with this message at Nov 17, 2016 around 06:47

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Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Nanomashoes posted:

There's nothing more I can say about FF13 that wasn't said in Tim Rogers' 18,000 word review of it which is good and insightful if you take the time to read it:
https://web.archive.org/web/2016053...tton.net/?p=630

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not so I'm responding to this as though you're not. Sorry if you are!

Please do not take this man's advice. This is a rambling and incoherent article that makes a bunch of overly broad gripes about things like the concept of "numbers" that all boil down to Tim Rogers wishing he was playing a different kind of game entirely. You will never make sense of it.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Nanomashoes posted:

It's long and sometimes digressive yes, but every sentence and paragraph makes complete sense and he understands the game on a level that I think very few people do.

The guy literally complained that you can't see enemy HP totals when you get Libra right from the start of the game. He didn't know it existed, from what I could gather. I'm no ardent defender of FF13, but come on.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Nanomashoes posted:

He knows it exists because he talks later in the article about how useless of an ability is because 1: the health bar 2: your AI teammates will automatically find out the enemy's weaknesses at the start of the battle and strengths and your actions will be automatically selected based on those and their current class.

What? No, you can manually select your own actions as much as you want in FF13. Oftentimes it's faster to let the auto-select do its thing, but that doesn't mean you have no control.


I know I already said a bunch of words, but I think I can sum up my stance on people who complain about modern FF games as follows:

If you want a set of RPGs that keep the same system and same gameplay over multiple iterations, all while keeping the game primarily story-driven, you should be playing the Dragon Quest series instead of Final Fantasy. It's exactly what you want: Mechanics that haven't fundamentally changed much from the SNES era, a consistently high bar of storytelling quality, and an art style and music style that don't drastically change from game to game.

Final Fantasy is a set of wildly experimental RPGs that throw a bunch of things at the wall and see what sticks. Dragon Quest is a set of traditional RPGs that adhere to their roots. This is how it has been for the past 20 years, and this is probably how it will continue to be for the next 20 years. Instead of being unhappy with a series that doesn't cater to what you want, wouldn't it make more sense to play a series that does cater to what you want?

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Jenner posted:

If you're saying my desire for appealing and developed characters and an enjoyable (not even good, just enjoyable) story is unrealistic then that is just sad. My standards, however, might be too high.

I would encourage you to read my follow-up post on this page, which I assume you'll get to eventually. Basically, I think you're asking for the wrong things from the wrong series. I think Dragon Quest would be way more your style, judging by the kinds of things you like.

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Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

Jenner posted:

Final Fantasy used to be this thing. It used to do the things I liked. But I guess you're right and it's time to move on.

Dragon Quest 8's 3DS remake/port is coming out this coming January, and it promises to be really good. There are also very beautiful mobile ports of DQ1-3 with SNES-style high quality sprite graphics and really nice English writing. If you want the older experience, you could try the NES Dragon Warriors, or try the regular DS ports of 4-6, all in English. Sadly, the SNES era of DQ games never made it here in English, but their remakes did, on the DS. It's a great series, and the Dragon Quest megathread loves to welcome new players with open arms. DQ Builders is also great and just recently came out, but that's more of a Minecraft game than a traditional RPG so YMMV.

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