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 WHAT IS THE AGE OF SIGMAR? Age of Sigmar is a game of fantasy miniature battles set within the sprawling Mortal Realms where the myriad armies of immortal gods make endless war upon each other for control of vast dimensional planes. The game is a successor to Warhammer Fantasy Battles, but mechanically has more in common with Warhammer 40k and lore-wise abandons the Old World of Fantasy Battles for something like the multi-verse of Michael Moorcock's Corum novels. The rules represent a streamlining of - but not a significant departure from - common Games Workshop mechanics. You will be rolling buckets of dice, rolling to-hit, to-wound, and to-save, but these mechanics have been adjusted to play more quickly. For example, a unit might hit on a 3+ and they will always hit any target on a 3+ unless otherwise buffed or debuffed. This differs from Warhammer 40k where you have to compare the attacker to the defender to determine the to-hit value. Overall the game plays much faster than 40k and Warhammer fantasy. In a truly epic cock-up the launch of the game alienated the faithful Warhammer Fantasy communities, but over the past year Games Workshop has worked to transform Age of Sigmar into a fun and competitive game worth your time and attention. WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS LORE?  tldr: The good guy gods fail to defend their realms from chaos, chaos takes over, lots of people die. Thousands of years later sigmar decides he's had enough, forges an army, and counterattacks. Early success leads to a new alliance between several gods and the war for the realms expands. long version:  Age of Sigmar is set within eight mortal realms - infinite dimensional planes wherein gods, monsters, and mortal men dwell. Each of the mortal realms represents a different fundamental, elemental force within the Warhammer world: Azyr (Celestial), Aqshy (Fire), Shyish (Death), Ghyran (Life), Hysh (Light), Ghur (Beasts), Chamon (Metal), Ulgu (Shadow). The realms are linked by various Realm Gates which provide a means to travel between them. They are also linked to the Chaos Realms, each ruled by one of the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods are obsessed with conquering the mortal realms in order to absorb them, increasing their individual power. In the time before time, men dwelt upon a material sphere that touched each of these realms but it was destroyed by invaders from the realms of Chaos. The destruction of that world marked the beginning of the Age of Myth, followed by the Age of Chaos, and ending in the current Age of Sigmar. This is the grand write-off of the Warhammer fantasy lore. The previous game system relegated to foot-note status. Age of Myth - For thousands of years the human god Sigmar ran around the mortal realms exploring, forging alliances, teaching the various mortal races technology and civilization, and generally trying to be an all around good guy. Heroic deeds were done. Sigmar manages to convince the gods of the mortal realms to form a Grand Alliance whose purpose was to defend the realms from invasion by the chaos gods. Ultimately the Grand Alliance falls apart from infighting and manipulation by the chaos gods. Unable to defend their realms, the mortal gods were divided and overcome. Age of Chaos - With the Grand Alliance in ruins, the chaos gods invade the mortal realms. Sigmar flees to the realm of Azyr and seals the realm gates that lead there. With Sigmar in hiding, the remaining gods can do little to defend their realms and chaos gradually consolidates. Mortal societies are destroyed or converted to chaos. Some races, such as the wood elves, are completely annihilated. The gods hide. Everyone despairs. The servants of the chaos gods begin rituals that will absorb the mortal realms into the chaos realms. Age of Sigmar - On the edge of a total chaos victory, Sigmar emerges from Azyr to invade Aqshy and Ghyran. Surprise chaos bastards! He's been planning for this moment from the very beginning! So, it turns out that throughout the Age of Chaos, Sigmar had been collecting the souls of brave warriors who died opposing the chaos invasion. Using magical metal from the core of the Old World and these brave warrior souls, Sigmar forges the Stormcast Eternals. An army of immortal warriors who march out to push back the all-consuming tide of chaos. The Stormcast establish beachheads on several realms, securing realm gates and setting out with the goal of finding the other gods and reforming the Grand Alliance. That's the background in short. There have also been two campaigns that have moved the story forward. (More details later). During the Realmgate Wars, a very large four book campaign series, Sigmar establishes his beachheads and makes contact with several other races and gods. During the 2016 summer campaign, the new Grand Alliance of Order conquers the mortal realm of Ghyran. OKAY, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE RULES?  [video type=""]/jtnREvA.mp4[/video]  The core game rules are available for free here. The game is a streamlined version of the traditional GW system, with more straightforward combat. There are several other mechanics that are different from previous GW games.
Warscrolls - While the core rules seem straightforward, the game expands in complexity as units are added. Each unit has a Warscroll which describes the unit's weapons, stats, and special rules. Many of these special rules interact with other warscrolls to create complexity. You don't need to buy any rulebooks to get warscrolls. The Age of Sigmar app has every warscroll for free and a warscroll is also packaged with the miniature kits. Battleplans - A battleplan is GW's term for a narrative scenario. The campaign books consist of a series of lore / battleplan pairs that tell a story. The various army battle tomes also include battleplans that are tailored to show off that army's play style. When it was first released AoS had no point system or any real army structure. The rules allowed for things like infinite summoning of daemons, abusive use of terrain, beardy armies consisting only of special characters, etc. This was not so good for the reputation of the game or Games Workshop. This has also changed. The General's Handbook is a sourcebook that provides much needed structure to the game:
Battle Tomes are like Warhammer 40k's codexes or Fantasy's army books. The battle tome spends most of it's time on lore, but also includes three narrative battle plans for the army. The battle tome also includes warscrolls for every unit in the army. Usually the app's warscrolls are a better resource, since GW applies errata and adjustments to the electronic warscrolls. Battle tomes are less necessary in AoS than they are in 40k, but are still full of awesome artwork and lore. Campaign Books contain lore and battleplans that advance the AoS storyline. They also sometimes contain special rules for playing narrative games in the various realms. ARMY COMPOSITION  (An example warscroll. Notice the command ability which buffs Brayherd units.) This section will focus on building armies for competitive "Matched Play" games. Armies in AoS are categorized by faction and alliance. There are four alliances: Order, Chaos, Destruction, and Death. Each alliance contains a number of factions. For example, Order contains Stormcast Eternals and Fyreslayers, among others. Units are then categorized with a battlefield role. Those roles are leader, battleline, behemoth, artillery, and other. To build a matched play legal army you begin by selecting an alliance. You then take one hero and a number of battleline units from that alliance based on the point value of the game. Games <2000 points require 2 battleline units, <2500 points requires 3, and >=2500 points requires 4. There may also be limits on the number of leaders and behemoths that can be included at various point levels, for example, you cannot have more than 2 behemoths at 1000 points. Your choice of army general may change the battlefield role of certain units; for example taking a Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut as your general makes Mighty Skullcrushers (a heavy cav unit) count as battleline. Selecting your army from a single faction provides bonuses. It may unlock access to relic weapons, faction specific schools of magic, faction specific army bonuses, or better battleline units. It may also provide implicit access to better buffs or magical effects. Each unit has a series of keywords like "mortal khorne" and some buffs only affect units with particular target keywords. Finally, you may choose to organize parts of your army into a Battalion. Battalions are like Formations in 40k: a set of specific units that when taken together provide some additional bonus. Unlike 40k, Battalions in AoS cost points in addition to the cost of the units that compose the Battalion. So taking a Vanguard Wing costs 400 points min for the units that compose it and then an additional 100 points to pay for the Battalion itself. If you want to build a few armies and explore points values without buying the General's Handbook, you can use Warscroll Builder. Battlescribe also has a dataset for Age of Sigmar. Both of these tools are free (there is also a paid version of Battlescribe that gets rid of advertisements.)THE ARMIES First, a word of caution. While there are warscrolls for many of the old Warhammer Fantasy armies, several of these armies are now considered to be "Compendium Armies". That is, they are out of print and may no longer receive support from GW. The General's Handbook has a list of the compendium armies. While many compendium armies are expected to get official support in the future, some are known to have been squatted: Khemri and Bretonnia. For now, this OP will discuss only armies that have had official AoS releases from GW in the form of Battletomes or Start Collecting boxes. I will add armies, art, and details over this week. We wanted to open the thread before all the content was done. --ORDER-- Stormcast Eternals Sylvaneth Fyreslayers  The Fyreslayers are a dwarven ("duardin") faction of musclebound mercenary warriors. Riding giant Magmadroths into battle, the Fyreslayers will fight for anyone willing to pay for their services with gold or rumors of ur-gold. The ur-gold are shards of the Duardin god Grimmnir who had a bit of an unfortunate accident during the Age of Myth and ended up merged with the fire plane of Aqshy. Fyreslayers gain strength by hammering ur-gold runes into their bodies and hope to gather enough of the god to bring him back. Although they originate in the realm of Aqshy, the Fyreslayers are found throughout the mortal realms and are one of the few Order races to prosper during the Age of Chaos. Seraphon --CHAOS-- Khorne Bloodbound Daemons of Khorne Daemons of Nurgle Skaven Clan Pestilins Everchosen Legion of Azgorh  Chaos dwarves, centaur warriors, and fire elementals. An army only available from Forge World with an online rulebook you can find here. The Legion of Azgorh are a gunline army with cannons, rifle/pistol infantry, and heavy cavalry to protect the line. Fantastic looking models, including a beardy chaos dwarf lord on a charging winged bull. Matched play points values for the Legion can be found in this Forge World supplement. If you run into the Legion or collect them let us know how they play. This isn't an army you see on the field very often. --DESTRUCTION-- Ironjawz Bonesplitterz Beastclaw Raiders  Cursed by their insatiable appetites and pursued by a malevolent and endless Everwinter, the Beastclaw Raiders consist of migratory packs of ogors (the packs are called Alfrostuns) that can never find rest, lest they be destroyed. The lore here is pretty bad rear end, with a gigantic storm following each Alfrostun, freezing out any game or prey should they linger in one place too long. The army consists of a small model count of elite units that move fast, hit hard, and nearly everything can both melee and shoot. The army's large models are all monsters, meaning they are incredibly powerful early game but lose strength as they incur wounds. While many Ogors served in Sigmar's army in the Age of Myth, those of the Alfrostuns generally despise the Stormcast Eternals because they cannot be eaten. They also don't much like ghosts, skeletons, imaginary lizards, and anything else not composed of meat. Alfrostuns originate in the Realm of Beasts, but have spread out across the mortal realms looking for new hunting grounds. Wherever they go the Everwinter follows, creating strategic problems for both Chaos and Order who must dedicate resources to misdirecting the Ogors in order to keep the stormfront away from key fortresses, towns, or resources. --DEATH-- Flesh-Eater Courts Related Games Gorechosen Silver Tower GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2016 21:30
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There we go, second time's a charm. Great start to the OP btw. So, starter topic. Since this little teaser...  Pretty much confirms that the Steamheads are next, who's up for some good ol' baseless speculation on what kinda things we'll see from them? Personally, I'd love to see a more shooting focused army in the AoS meta.
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Nov 19, 2016 21:35
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I would expect them to be shooting as well. For the steamhead, would be neat to have some form of steam tank like monster that isn't necessarily an animal/beast. As for future releases, I'd like to see a book for the Nurgle mortal plaguehosts, like the Khorne bloodbound.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:01
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GreenMarine posted:I would expect them to be shooting as well.  , we've got the framework with the Rotbringers, shouldn't be too hard.I'm really interested to see what comes out for Death, considering they're the smallest faction by far, have only gotten one Battletome army so far, and a re-vamp one at that.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:21
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SteelMentor posted:Personally, I'd love to see a more shooting focused army in the AoS meta. As a Bloodbound player, I must respectfully disagree!
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Nov 20, 2016 00:17
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Is this thread real?
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Nov 20, 2016 00:23
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Looks pretty real to me.Fuegan posted:As a Bloodbound player, I must respectfully disagree! Funnily enough, my Wood Elves always get ground into the dirt by Bloodbound. Once they've reached combat there's nothing my tree-humpers can do.
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Nov 20, 2016 01:08
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It's real. I admit to fat fingering the title, but I do plan on populating the OP with more content over the week. Several people in the 40k thread have been playing Sigmar and wanted a separate location to discuss the game.
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Nov 20, 2016 01:16
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I might end up playing this crappy game for the same reason most people do: its the only game in town.  Are random turns and shooting in/out of combat as annoying and bullshitty as they sound? those seem like the biggest fuckups now that points are a thing. And so I'm not just Bad Threading the place up, some Nice Things about aos: love mixing armies within factions, some new armies like pestilens/sylvaneth/flesheater courts genuinely loving own.
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Nov 20, 2016 02:56
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Random turns isn't nearly a big a problem on the table as it is on paper, primarily due to the way combat resolves with alternating units. As for the shooting thing, tbh most people forget that units can do that or houserule that engaged units can only shoot (with a hit penalty) at units they're engaged with. But then again most shooty units are toast once you've got them in melee.
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Nov 20, 2016 03:07
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Wait wait, GW has a game where each player doesn't take an hour to move all 10 million units before the other guy gets to do anything and they cut down on compared stat nonsense? It almost sounds like they tripped over a game designer somewhere. If they could throttle back on the buckets of dice and find some way to to price their bulk troop minis like Reaper Bones minis, they might be on to something.
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Nov 20, 2016 04:46
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Pvt.Scott posted:Wait wait, GW has a game where each player doesn't take an hour to move all 10 million units before the other guy gets to do anything and they cut down on compared stat nonsense? It almost sounds like they tripped over a game designer somewhere. If they could throttle back on the buckets of dice and find some way to to price their bulk troop minis like Reaper Bones minis, they might be on to something. im sorry but it still takes a hour to move 10 million units and the only stat streamlining they did was make it so you don't have to remember a simple table
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Nov 20, 2016 07:19
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If anything moving units in AoS is a lot worse than WHFB because there are no movement trays. It's full on 40K style skirmish movement. I hope you like individually moving 50 rat models per unit.
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Nov 20, 2016 07:21
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So what you're saying is that Necromunda/Mordheim/Gorkamorka (and Bloodbowl but it's a bit different) are still their only good games? The rough mechanics aren't a big deal at skirmish size and the cool pseudo-worldsim that happens between matches oozes with character and lore. It's a real shame small scale skirmish games don't sell hundreds of dollars worth of models to have a legal force on the field. GW has never actually been good at making their flagship games, just the cool side jams.
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Nov 20, 2016 07:46
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yeah all of the rough mechanics of mordheim are alive and well in a game with hundreds of different models except instead of measuring from bases you measure from whatever jagged point is farthest from the center of the model instead
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Nov 20, 2016 07:50
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While this thread doesn't need to be a hugbox, I'll throw out a reminder that this is for people who actually want to play the game and there are multiple other threads in this forum if you want to just dunk on AoS and GW.
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Nov 20, 2016 07:58
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All of the groups I've played with measure from the base. I suppose I should put that in the OP, as it's a very common house rule. However, some units like the Prosecutors seem designed to be played as if they measure from the wings. Warhammer Community has an article up on how to play the Legion of Azgorh, which is a Forge World exclusive army of Chaos Dwarves. http://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/19/legion-of-azgorh-by-ben-curry/
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Nov 20, 2016 08:09
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Yeah measuring from the base and limiting shooting into/out of combat seems like the bare minimum houseruling you need.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:19
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Ojetor posted:Yeah measuring from the base and limiting shooting into/out of combat seems like the bare minimum houseruling you need. So the basics of how to play the game are 'accept that the game cannot reasonably be played by the rules as written'? That... doesn't really sell me on the game.
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Nov 20, 2016 10:21
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Not really. My group has played a number of games with shooting in/out of combat and honestly it's not a big deal. Measuring from the base is just a way of simplifying things but I've played model-to-model games and they're just as fun.
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Nov 20, 2016 13:11
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Those start collecting boxes, that's representative of a fully functional starter army, yeah? And how much larger is a competition army?
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Nov 20, 2016 16:00
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The start collecting boxes aren't all legal for comp on their own, as you need 1 hero and 2 battle line units. The Stormcast start collecting box is 1 hero, 1 battle line, and 2 other units. It's 500 points , so it's about half what you would need to start playing 1000 point matched play games. The Sylvaneth start collecting box is 600 points and does have two battleline units, but one of them is understrength. Dryads come in units of 10 and it has 16 dryads. The Sylvaneth christmas battle force box is 1100 points and can be made legal out of the box if you build two units of tree-revanants. The christmas battle forces mix well with the start collecting boxes to create forces that are about 1500 points. So a 1500 point Sylvaneth army looks something like this. (There might be a cheap battalion to cover the remaining 60 points.) ++ Pitched Battle (1,500) (Grand Alliance: Order v23) (1440pts) ++ + Leader (100pts) + ········Branchwych (100pts) + Leader/Behemoth (280pts) + ········Drycha Hamadreth (280pts) + Behemoth (260pts) + ········Treelord (260pts) + Battleline (340pts) + ········Dryads (120pts) [10 Dryads (120pts)] ········Dryads (120pts) [10 Dryads (120pts)] ········Tree-Revenants (100pts) [5 Tree-Revenants (100pts)] + Other (460pts) + ········Kurnoth Hunters (180pts) [3 Kurnoth Hunters (180pts)] ········Kurnoth Hunters (180pts) [3 Kurnoth Hunters (180pts)] ········Spite-Revenants (100pts) [5 Spite-Revenants (100pts)] The Ironjawz Start Collecting + Battleforce box looks to be about the same point value and there is also probably a battalion to round out the remaining points. The Ironjawz start collecting box is a legal list out of the box. Here are the two combined: ++ Pitched Battle (1,500) (Grand Alliance: Destruction v12) (1420pts) ++ + Leader (340pts) + ········Orruk Megaboss (140pts) ········Orruk Warchanter (80pts) ········Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120pts) + Behemoth (180pts) + ········Aleguzzler Gargant (180pts) + Battleline (900pts) + ········Orruk Ardboys (180pts) [10 Ardboys (180pts)] ········Orruk Brutes (180pts) [5 Brutes (180pts)] ········Orruk Brutes (180pts) [5 Brutes (180pts)] ········Orruk Gore-Gruntas (180pts) [3 Gore-Gruntas (180pts)] ········Orruk Gore-Gruntas (180pts) [3 Gore-Gruntas (180pts)] GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 17:16
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For what it's worth I think some of the AoS models look pretty decent Impractical for transport though
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Nov 20, 2016 17:53
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What is this I hear that wood elves have been cut from the game?
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Nov 20, 2016 18:05
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All of the WHFB are still playable and have updated warscrolls for those units but it's completely unclear which if any will get renewed support in the new setting going forward.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:09
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Thanks GreenMarine, good to know that the more GW changes the more they stay the same.  So are things like Kohrne dudes and Khorne demons only allowed exclusively? Or skeles and flesh-eaters?
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Nov 20, 2016 18:09
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Not a viking posted:What is this I hear that wood elves have been cut from the game? Edit: fb
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Nov 20, 2016 18:09
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Also worth noting that the 1 hero 2 battle line rule is the only comp rule. You can have a single army composed of Sigmarines, Khorne Berserkers, Orks, and Skeletons. It encourages you to not do this by adding extra abilities and items that you only have access to if every unit in your army belongs in a single Grand Alliance or faction. For example if every unit is Sylvaneth you can either use them as a Grand Alliance Order army and get those bonuses or as a Sylvaneth army and get those.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:17
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SteelMentor posted:Complete bullshit. They're still here. They're a PDF that came out when the game launched that will likely never be updated again. Those PDFs also have the fun and excellent "make a sound/do an action" rules too.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:18
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Not entirely true. They got updated Warscrolls with the Grand Allliance Order book, revamped without the joke rules like every other faction. Some units didn't make the cut but you can freely add those compendium units in.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:20
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tallkidwithglasses posted:They're a PDF that came out when the game launched that will likely never be updated again. Those PDFs also have the fun and excellent "make a sound/do an action" rules too. All of those joke rules have been removed and their war scrolls updated. I'll update the OP with info on army comp, but basically you can build however you want, or within one of the four major alliances, or faction specific. As you move from unfocused to faction specific you get access to more bonuses. Also each unit has a set of keywords like "mortal Khorne" and some buffs only take effect on units with the right keyword. So a bunch of bloodbound bonuses don't work on generic chaos warriors because they aren't mortal khorne. Your general choice can also unlock new units as troops, so taking a khorne lord on juggernaut let's you take juggernaut cav as troops. In AoS troops are called "battleline" units.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:39
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So, what would you tell someone who played Total War[hammer], got hooked on the setting and battles, and wanted to do the same stuff on the tabletop? Also, I assume round bases aren't going away and rank-and-file tactics aren't coming back. How does AoS perform at higher scales, say, a few hundred models per side? Bearable, or a slog?
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Nov 20, 2016 18:56
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Pierzak posted:So, what would you tell someone who played Total War[hammer], got hooked on the setting and battles, and wanted to do the same stuff on the tabletop? I'm told it's pretty easy to port the Warhammer armies over to KoW.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:59
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Pierzak posted:So, what would you tell someone who played Total War[hammer], got hooked on the setting and battles, and wanted to do the same stuff on the tabletop? They'd have to play a fantasy battle game. Kings of War has a supplement to cover Fantasy players who's game has been squatted, and Kings of War has made big inroads into the tournament and organised play scene. There are a number of others available, and Rick Priestley is working on a new fantasy battle game as well.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:03
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GreenMarine posted:All of those joke rules have been removed and their war scrolls updated. You say this, but the following excerpt is from the Fyreslayers' "Auric Runeson on Magmadroth", which is an entirely new faction/model: Games Workshop posted:In addition, if a battleshock test is made for the unit before your next hero phase, add 1 to the result of the dice roll if you can deliver a suitably characterful insult or furious putdown (aimed at the unit in question, of course – not your opponent!). I doubt I'd spend money on GW miniatures even if they eliminated rules like this, but as long as they're present, I honestly don't see a need to even examine the rules on a deeper level. "Meta" joke rules like this are just embarrassing and this poo poo is one of the reasons I hated playing at Games Day way back when: the staffers basically forced you to shout "For the Emperor!" every time you rolled. It's disappointing to see that GW apparently hasn't learned that trying to embarrass their players doesn't make their games more fun to play (quite the opposite, in fact!).
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Nov 20, 2016 19:08
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Avenging Dentist posted:You say this, but the following excerpt is from the Fyreslayers' "Auric Runeson on Magmadroth", which is an entirely new faction/model: Yeah I see that on Explosive Rage. That's honestly the first one I've seen on the current armies and I agree those kinds of rules are dumb. They damage the game's reputation and make it harder to convince people to try playing. I checked in the app to see if the text is current and it is. I'm not trying to defend GW's bad decisions. They made a bunch of bad decisions introducing this game. But it is fun to play and other people here also enjoy it. This thread is intended to provide a place for that group to talk about the game. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 19:14
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lmao edit: whoops wrong thread thought this was the one where we laugh about how bad aos is, my bad Moola fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 19:52
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GreenMarine posted:Yeah I see that on Explosive Rage. That's honestly the first one I've seen on the current armies and I agree those kinds of rules are dumb. They damage the game's reputation and make it harder to convince people to try playing. I checked in the app to see if the text is current and it is. Fun isn't a metric of game design. People have fun doing all sorts of stupid poo poo. If the only defense you can muster for a game is that it is fun, then it is almost certainly a bad game. By all means like and talk about it. No one is saying you can't. Just be aware that fun is the worst possible way to describe a game.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:47
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Wondered how long it'd take for the Death Thread to start dogpiling, they've already got two whole threads to jerk off to how much they hate AoS, why not a third? I've never honestly seen anyone ever use the joke rules, bar some kid who tried the Greasius bribe with a box of muffins. They're dumb but ultimately harmless.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:57
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Atlas Hugged posted:Fun isn't a metric of game design. People have fun doing all sorts of stupid poo poo. If the only defense you can muster for a game is that it is fun, then it is almost certainly a bad game. By all means like and talk about it. No one is saying you can't. Just be aware that fun is the worst possible way to describe a game. Well let's be fair, I'm the one who said the "f" word first because I was talking about a mechanic that's almost completely disconnected from the actual gameplay (i.e. doing an embarrassing thing to get an in-game bonus).
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Nov 20, 2016 20:57
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