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It's pretty simple. To run an army in Matched Play, you need at least 1 Leader and 2 Battleline units. These are usually basic troops, however if you stick exclusively to units with one alliance (e.g. Sylvaneth) then certain specialist units become Battleline units so you can have a more focused army.
Fuegan fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 16:42
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I'll admit that the alliance thing was the only thing aos got right Edit: im sure there are factions that are just straight up better than everything else, but the idea of being able to pick from multiple factions, get incentivized for handicapping yourself and not cherry picking the best units, and your army comp changing with your leader is good
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Nov 22, 2016 17:28
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That doesnt sound too complicated then I looked at the factions and there are loving 60 of them SIX ZERO
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Nov 22, 2016 17:37
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Are the compendium armies included or do they not get incentives for restricting what they field?
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Nov 22, 2016 17:43
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They get Battlefield Role listings but I think the only compendium unit that gets a "Battleline if" rule is Skeleton Archers for Tomb Kings.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:52
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excuse me they are Bonerattler Deadbows
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Nov 22, 2016 17:58
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Fuegan posted:They get Battlefield Role listings but I think the only compendium unit that gets a "Battleline if" rule is Skeleton Archers for Tomb Kings. Elysian Reavers and Waywatchers do to. Especially good for Waywatchers as they have the Wanderers keyword and Glade Guard suck rear end.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:12
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Pretty sure they're Battleline as standard, with no need to stick to an alliance to make them so. Both of those units are Compendium units, while Glade Guard are included in the actual AoS "Wanderers" alliance.
Fuegan fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 18:18
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Moola posted:That doesnt sound too complicated That is annoying and unnecessary, especially since the only sub factions that get loyalty rules are the ones re-released for AoS. I haven't read the GH completely can you mix alliances if you want to forgo the loyalty bonuses? I kind of want to do a Sylvaneth/Undead army as a sort of old growth haunted forest vibe. Mainly because I like the Morris Engine model and think it would make a good centerpiece for an army. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vampire-Counts-Mortis-Engine Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 18:23
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Unfortunately not in a Pitched Battle (the points-based system). It states "All of the units in a Pitched Battle army must belong to the same Grand Alliance (Order, Chaos, Death, Destruction)."
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Nov 22, 2016 18:39
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Moola posted:if your general is Wubadubdub then your Lichkings become linebacker (but only on a monday) Hehe. His sentence meant "if you pick the leader of [specific faction] than you can run [specific unit from that faction] as troops." Battleline == troops. Moola posted:That doesnt sound too complicated Yeah this is strange. A bunch of them have like 2 or 3 units in them. Some have gone away over time. I think this might be part of GW's sloppy transition, where they wanted all the old models to have a place in the new game, but only during the transition. I would expect a bunch of these factions to get merged or retired as they release books for the various alliances.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:18
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Moola posted:That doesnt sound too complicated My favorite is the firebelly faction. It is just a firebelly.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:28
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Moola posted:That doesnt sound too complicated yeah, this is where it starts following apart, because they decided to break up "Orcs" into like five different factions. the only reason i can think of this is revenue selling each formation individually and the illusion of choice
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Nov 22, 2016 21:08
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GreenMarine posted:Hehe. His sentence meant "if you pick the leader of [specific faction] than you can run [specific unit from that faction] as troops." Battleline == troops. its very interesting that all of the major selling points for aos (free rules, you can use your old minis, etc) have turned out to be massive lies (no it isn't interesting everyone knew that this was going to happen)
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Nov 22, 2016 21:10
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Moola posted:That doesnt sound too complicated the faction system does also make some cool army themes possible and legal too, like a pure ethereal/ghosty army for undead. shitloads of them could and should be merged though. Saint Drogo fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 21:40
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I like the idea of highlighting specifications in the shop, so if you're really after different models for fleshing out a Pestilens or Slayer unit for example you can get right to checking them out. However, they really should be further subdivisions of the actual factions rather than the spread thin selection we currently have.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:48
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What are the other Skaven clans? If I don't like plague rats are there other flavors of Skaven in models from WHFB?
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Nov 22, 2016 21:51
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mango sentinel posted:What are the other Skaven clans? If I don't like plague rats are there other flavors of Skaven in models from WHFB? Skryre, Eshin and Moulder are the other Big Three but they don't seem to have survived the trip back to their home planet.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:53
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Skryre, Eshin and Moulder are the other Big Three but they don't seem to have survived the trip back to their home planet.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:56
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mango sentinel posted:What are their respective deals? skyre was steampunk rats eshin was ninja rats moulder was rats glued to rats (they specialized in mutating rats into monsters, hammering spikes into them, sewing on some extra limbs and pointing them at people) edit: iirc the only reason pestilens are a thing is because they're literally squatting in nurgle's basement. turns out that someone put a thumb over their god's name (Nurglitch) and realized that spoilers, they were nurgle rats all along!!!!
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Nov 22, 2016 21:59
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mango sentinel posted:What are their respective deals? Crazy Steampunk Wizard Rats, Crazy Ninja Rats and Crazy Frankenstien Rats respectively. They're still in the game, but Pestilliens was first up for a bit of love what with them tying in heavily into the Realm of Life plotline.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:00
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mango sentinel posted:What are their respective deals? Skryre were all about building weird warpstone contraptions and guns and lightning magic, eshin were assassins/spies and moulder were beast masters that made hellpit abominations and rat ogres. When you combine them with pestilens you end up with rat-Tzeentch, rat-slaanesh, rat-Khorne and rat-nurgle respectively. Sort of.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:01
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reminder that a lot of the massive uncertainty as to whether or not certain factions are still in the game could be solved with a one page letter from GW, but they're convinced their monolithic silence and erratic release schedule is a selling point to their games
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Nov 22, 2016 22:01
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Business Gorillas posted:reminder that a lot of the massive uncertainty as to whether or not certain factions are still in the game could be solved with a one page letter from GW, but they're convinced their monolithic silence and erratic release schedule is a selling point to their games Worth pointing out that Archaon's end times book came out May 2015 and all non-pestilens rat men have been MIA since then. So it's been like a year and a half where they're essentially squatted.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:07
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The other clans are mentioned all over the Pestilliens book, and there's a Eshin Assassin in Silver Tower.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:09
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Worth pointing out that Archaon's end times book came out May 2015 and all non-pestilens rat men have been MIA since then. So it's been like a year and a half where they're essentially squatted. Also it'd be much easier to assume that things weren't squatted if "not releasing anything for months then gradually mentioning it less and less" wasn't just how GW signals it closed everything else.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:13
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spectralent posted:Also it'd be much easier to assume that things weren't squatted if "not releasing anything for months then gradually mentioning it less and less" wasn't just how GW signals it closed everything else. 😜
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Nov 22, 2016 22:35
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A touch off-topic but if Skaven's your thing, Vermintide is all about Skaven. Granted, it's about killing them since it's basically Left 4 Rats but drat if they don't have a truckload more personality than zombies.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:50
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mango sentinel posted:TBF the current release schedule for explicitly supported AoS stuff also seems to be "not releasing anything for months and months." They did a leak of a steampunk duardin unit a bit ago, so I imagine they'll be next. The Skaven clans are Eshin, Moulder, Pestilins, Skyre, Verminus, and the Masterclan. All are still in the game, although only Pestilins has a new codex. Pestilins is disease. Skyre is gadgets / warmachines. Verminus are the brave rats that are an organized legion type thing. Moulder are mutants. Eshin are assassins. Masterclan is the group a bunch of overarching special characters come from. Not an army by itself. Over time, I'd expect all of these to get official support. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 23:43
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Looking on the GW website and the Skyre stuff is cool. Has anyone put together that hamster wheel before?
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Nov 23, 2016 02:19
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Yeah a long time ago. It's a pretty solid kit.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:27
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A lot of war games are about setting up scenarios and giving them a go and role playing to an extent. Points are fine for a quick scrap, but working out why and how your buddies' forces met and what elements are in play are a very big part of the experience. A little "your boys have caught my column unprepared in an ambush due to winning over the locals. A native guide sympathetic to your cause led my men right into this mess. I've got clear tech and numerical superiority, but my units are out of position and I'll have to clear a line of retreat to fall back for supply and casevac. You get the initiative first round with your pick of terrain and my guys have a leadership penalty that burns off over three rounds. I win a clear victory if I get two-thirds of my men to this evac zone on the far edge by turn x" Hell, grognardy wargaming spawned Dungeons & Dragons. Rules that deal well with that sort of thing deal less well with tournament-style play, as they tend to rely on consensus and on-the-spot rules callings. Trying to have a rule set that does both well is... ambitious? Trying to make that rule set work from small skirmish to mighty clash on top of all of that? More ambitious still. I think AoS wants to be the loosey goosey kitchen sink game that the original Rogue Trader was way back when, while also replacing proper Warhams and having serious business leagues and stuff. Am I wrong? I probably am.
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Nov 23, 2016 05:33
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Nah, you're spot on. The four page rules was supposed to take the focus away from crunch so you could focus more on the narrative. Changes like measuring model to model are bad, but well intentioned to make the game feel more immersive (in addition to an inelegant fix to mismatched bases.) They've been pushing narrative play across all their lines. While nuking the original setting rankles WHFB players I think the intention was to have a clean slate for new players to "forge their own narrative." These have been to decidedly mixed results. I've heard a lot of people outside these forums (ones uninvested in WHFB, and less concerned with finely crafted mechanics) that they like the narrative focus to the point they think the GH was unneeded and distracted from it.
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Nov 23, 2016 05:49
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Pvt.Scott posted:A lot of war games are about setting up scenarios and giving them a go and role playing to an extent. Points are fine for a quick scrap, but working out why and how your buddies' forces met and what elements are in play are a very big part of the experience. A little "your boys have caught my column unprepared in an ambush due to winning over the locals. A native guide sympathetic to your cause led my men right into this mess. I've got clear tech and numerical superiority, but my units are out of position and I'll have to clear a line of retreat to fall back for supply and casevac. You get the initiative first round with your pick of terrain and my guys have a leadership penalty that burns off over three rounds. I win a clear victory if I get two-thirds of my men to this evac zone on the far edge by turn x" This is kind of bullshit to be honest. I mostly play historicals, which more often than not are about explicitly recreating a battle, but even then all widely played modern rules systems have a way of weighting armies so you can properly balance scenarios of your own. I can look at the historical order of battle for the forces at Iuka in 1862 and pick units out of my collection and come up with a scenario to play that, but Black Powder also offers me a pointing system to make sure that the fight isn't going to be completely lopsided. Just eyeballing things and having an umpire declare the outcome of all player actions has been left behind by the historicals community for at least a couple decades at this point, and this is a community that literally originated the word grognard. It's kind of inexcusable that a company tried to launch a product where everything's made up and the points don't matter in TYOOL 2015.
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Nov 23, 2016 06:12
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Nothing about having good tight rules precludes you from creating a narrative for your game. Nor does providing points and balance prevent you from designing intentionally unbalanced scenarios. You could always do both of those things with Warhammer, or indeed with virtually any tabletop wargame.
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Nov 23, 2016 06:28
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The only thing you need to create a narrative-style battle rather than a competitive battle is to create the scenario yourself. Or grab a scenario elsewhere. Having to be forced to play only narrative-style games by a game system is really unnecessary.
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Nov 23, 2016 06:30
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Kings of War is really geared towards competitive play (chess clocks, streamlined rules), but Mantic also released a book with campaigns and a bunch of "asymmetrical" scenarios for more narrative games.
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Nov 23, 2016 06:47
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Well, this is sooner than expected: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=546993285497469&substory_index=0&id=452117934985005 Personally I'd love some expanded Path to Glory rosters, but I'd wary of buying a new GH so soon.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:25
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tallkidwithglasses posted:This is kind of bullshit to be honest. I mostly play historicals, which more often than not are about explicitly recreating a battle, but even then all widely played modern rules systems have a way of weighting armies so you can properly balance scenarios of your own. Right, it looks like those old timey rules are exactly the rules that GW launched Age of Sigmar on: no points, vague rules with preference given to consensus at the table, etc. Points are cool for the reasons you state, even a quick eyeball at balance is better than just winging it. Hell, even Chainmail (proto D&D) had points! That's how elves got immunity to paralysis. Too pricey and ghouls needed a hard counter to their abilities.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:32
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SteelMentor posted:Well, this is sooner than expected: how old is the first GH?
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Nov 23, 2016 16:39
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