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  • Locked thread
POOL IS CLOSED
Jul 14, 2011

I'm just exploding with mackerel. This is the aji wo kutta of my discontent.


Pillbug

rannum posted:

most of them aren't that bad but then you have yashiro & kiria's default outfits and general nonsense like conquerer chrom, cain's promoted obsession with giant lance out of his back or hat and springy arm navarre and you have to wonder what aesthetic they were actually going for

yaoi bondage apparently

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RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






LordHippoman posted:

*Warp Staff*

: REPOSITIONING.

(This joke brought to you by my friend who doesn't read this thread, but plays a lot of Reaper.)

*Gets a crit*

: IT'S IN THE REFRIGERATOR.

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.

vilkacis posted:

So on a scale from 0 to Spock/Kirk, how popular are those two in terms of fanworks...?

It's hard to find much fanwork for this game in the english-speaking internet sphere, but for m/m couples I'd wager Kain/Abel are more popular. As in, I've seen it, and haven't seen Navarre/Ogma. Which, honestly, I'm surprised I haven't. But, again, not much there in general.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



Are the navarre fanboys of old the reaper mainers of today?

I think so
I truly do

Shingouryu
Feb 15, 2012


LordHippoman posted:

That's interesting. I know zero Japanese, so if anyone does and can figure that out, I'll edit it in. That goes for all the Cipher stuff, of course.

The first two Kanji are indeed sure kill, followed by sword, which in this context should be "hissatsuken"
http://jisho.org/search/hissatsu
http://jisho.org/search/tsurugi

This is followed by user, which would be pronounced "tsukaite"
http://jisho.org/search/tsukaite

The rest is his name in Kana

Shingouryu
Feb 15, 2012


Ogma was a bit more difficult, as I didn't recognize the first kanji.

I'm a little confused by the translation. While 剛 can indeed mean "hard," my assumption is the intended meaning is "strong" or "manly."

http://jisho.org/search/%E5%89%9B

The rest is the same as Navarre.

[disclaimer - I am not a translator but minored in Japanese, like, 5 years ago. Take my analysis with a grain of salt]

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

So how old is Ogma anyway? I keep doing the math for Caeda and she's either really young; like, 16 and already married, or he's approaching 40 which would be ancient in feudal times. Which then brings up the question of how old is Jagen?

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Sjs00 posted:

So how old is Ogma anyway? I keep doing the math for Caeda and she's either really young; like, 16 and already married, or he's approaching 40 which would be ancient in feudal times. Which then brings up the question of how old is Jagen?

From the novelizations of both games, since those are the only sources we have:
-Caeda is 14 in Shadow Dragon and 17 in Mystery of the Emblem
-Jagen is 58 in Mystery of the Emblem, meaning that he should be roughly 55 in Shadow Dragon
-Ogma's age is not given.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


Blaze Dragon posted:

-Caeda is 14 in Shadow Dragon and 17 in Mystery of the Emblem

PFAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Dang; I knew we in America had problems putting too much hormones into our food, but that...that's something else !

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Shingouryu posted:

The first two Kanji are indeed sure kill, followed by sword, which in this context should be "hissatsuken"
http://jisho.org/search/hissatsu
http://jisho.org/search/tsurugi

This is followed by user, which would be pronounced "tsukaite"
http://jisho.org/search/tsukaite

The rest is his name in Kana

That makes sense, thanks. I'll edit this and the Ogma one into the last post, appreciate the help.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Fionordequester posted:

PFAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Dang; I knew we in America had problems putting too much hormones into our food, but that...that's something else !

Combat hormones.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011



Camel Pimp posted:

haven't seen Navarre/Ogma

I am mad disappointed.

Shingouryu posted:

I'm a little confused by the translation. While 剛 can indeed mean "hard," my assumption is the intended meaning is "strong" or "manly."

Now I'm even more disappointed.

Blaze Dragon posted:

-Caeda is 14 in Shadow Dragon

What.

Well, on the one hand, Navarre's refusal to fight her makes a bit more sense. On the other...

Roger? You're going to jail.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



MythosDragon posted:

Combat hormones.

(Oh god i hate myself)

Its called high growth rates

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Rigged Death Trap posted:

(Oh god i hate myself)

Its called high growth rates

Puns are love, puns are life.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

I wouldn't take the novel ages totally as fact, since they aren't canon, but roughly everyone in FE7 is apparently like 17 for some reason despite most of them looking like adults. They treat Nino like a child but she's like 3 years younger than Eliwood, apparently. So they could be pretty accurate.

(Also, nobody's done it yet, but I just want to put it out there because there's age discussion, please don't be creepy about FE characters here. The word "waifu" is prohibited unless it pertains to Jagen, thank you.)




Also, a new trailer for the mobile Fire Emblem game just dropped, confirming two characters from Shadow Dragon...that we haven't met yet. So, uh, I'll address that when we get to them.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Chapter 8: Render Unto Caesar (Prep)

Itís time to continue the march into Archanea! The country, not the continent, because weíre alreadyÖ

I hate that.



Anyway, itís Port Warren. Apparently in the European versions this chapter is called ďCoastal SkirmishĒ, so this screen doesnít say ďPort Warren: Port WarrenĒ.







: they paid Dolhr dearly in taxes to preserve their autonomy. Naturally, then, theirs was a warm welcome when the Archanean League arrived.

Iím not sure what the dragons really need money for. Like, Medeus just really wants to gently caress over humanity for reasons not explained in this game. He doesnít have one of those dragon hoards.

: Marthís soldiers were glad to rest there, nestled between mountain and sea, but their joy was spoiled by news that the enemy was fast approaching- as harsh an awakening as a rock beneath the pillow.

: Which reminds me, Sir Jagen, should you really be sleeping on that shield?


: I lived hardcore. I die hardcore.




So, for this chapter, Iím taking the usual team, but I had to have Hardin sit out. Iím...skeptical about Navarre, but the Armorslayer is good on this map. I do have a replacement in mind, though. I might swap the Armorslayer to someone else and sub in an extra healer, but weíll see when I actually get around to playing this map .




This map is a little weird. I think itís the only one set up this way in the game.




To get to the keep that ends the chapter, weíll have to fight through hordes of rather low level enemies. Those forts behind them will pump out replacements as well, so this is a map that will test your ability to control space and advance, especially with this half being all mounted foes.




The right side, instead, houses Knights and Archers. This is a pretty extreme risk/reward map for Caeda, since her Wing Spear will destroy, but an errant arrow could take her down fast.




Oh, weíve also got this guy. Weíll have to talk to him with Caeda, too, so sheís got even more utility.




The boss is...pathetic, honestly. Heís weaker than the last two, and lack of a ranged weapon really makes Kannival more of a formality than a challenge.




One nice feature of Port Warren is that this whole southeastern part (presumably the actual Port) is full of shops carrying some interesting items, and our second Arena!




Abelís lance ability pays off here, he can wield the Ridersbane to cut through cavalry. I went ahead and outfit most of my units with replacement/better weapons, because I tend to forget.




I also used the Seraph Robe we collected in Chapter 6 to bump Caedaís HP to 24. This should help her be a little less likely to melt. Draug was also a strong contender for this, but he doesnít have to get in melee range.




So, I should explain Bantu. Bantu is a Manakete, who are special units that use Dragonstones. The Firestone has a ridiculously good Might value of 15. It also enhances the userís stats in battle, providing 8 Strength, 4 Skill, 4 Speed, 9 Defense, and 4 Resistance. With all that, Bantuís stats are, effectively:
10 Strength
0 Magic
7 Skill
8 Speed
1 Luck
12 Defense
5 Resistance

Heís...still not good enough to justify having to use the Stone, which only has 30 uses...ever. Then Bantuís useless. But hey, thatís not all, he has horrendous movement and awful growths! I love Bantu as a character, but heís one of the worst units in the game.




Also, turns out I was wrong, the Small Bullion is worth 10k, not 1k in this game. I could have sworn it was different, but...Iíll take it. I want to save some cash for this map, but I can do a quick forge with the boost from thisÖ




Draugís nearly up to D Bows, so this should come in handy sooner rather than later.




His name is Guard backwards.

Next time we go shopping.

Bonus Content

So, uh, this one features a character we wonít meet until the sequel, Feena the Dancer. But itís also got Navarre in it, and since weíre all making fun of Navarre right nowÖ

Navhairre

: Hmm... How should it be? Tied up in the back...? Or maybe braidedÖ

: ...What are you talking about?

: I was thinking about what your new hairstyle should be, Navarre.

: I didnít ask for one.

: Navarre, your hairís so pretty. Itíd be a shame to leave it like that. Leave it to me! Iíve got tons of cute hairdos in mind! I have to repay you for saving my life, donít forget!

He betrayed his bandit friends because a girl talked to him. Again.

: And you think you can return a favor this wayÖ?

: I've got it! Twintails! It's a hairstyle in vogue in Warren. I'm sure it'll suit you! Navarre, come here!

See, Warren, Iím totally justified picking this one.

: OiÖ

: Squeal! Sooo cute!

: BahÖ!

: Why did you undo it? It suited youÖ

: ...You're irritating me! Don't talk to me again!

As a great tragedy of these games not being very popular, I regret to inform you all that Navarre with pigtails fan art does not exist. Sometimes life is so cruel.

LordHippoman fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 27, 2017

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Someone will have to fix that lack of fanart. It won't be me, because I can't draw, but someone must.

Also Cannibal is not going to eat anyone with that range and those stats.

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

Looks like another exp-fest for our goddess of the skies; did you mean to say 24 hp instead of 17 though?

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Blaze Dragon posted:

Also Cannibal is not going to eat anyone with that range and those stats.
I'm more curious as to why he's carting around a magic sword when he can't even use a sword, let alone has any magic period.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Sjs00 posted:

Looks like another exp-fest for our goddess of the skies; did you mean to say 24 hp instead of 17 though?

Whoops, I totally did. I even went back and changed that on the proofread and hosed it up. Good catch, thanks.

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.

LordHippoman posted:

I regret to inform you all that Navarre with pigtails fan art does not exist. Sometimes life is so cruel.

Yes it does!



(Not mine, from here.)

Look, my tablet's wonky whether or not it wants to work and I don't want to gently caress with it right now.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Camel Pimp posted:

Yes it does!



(Not mine, from here.)

Look, my tablet's wonky whether or not it wants to work and I don't want to gently caress with it right now.

Man, I searched "Navarre pigtails" and all I got was a catheter company, which, while funny in its own right, did not fulfill my needs. Thank you for your help yet again, Camel Pimp.

MonstrousMouse
Apr 15, 2014


Camel Pimp posted:

Yes it does!



(Not mine, from here.)

Look, my tablet's wonky whether or not it wants to work and I don't want to gently caress with it right now.

This is amazing. You're amazing. Whoever drew it is amazing.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011



LordHippoman posted:

As a great tragedy of these games not being very popular, I regret to inform you all that Navarre with pigtails fan art does not exist.

Camel Pimp posted:

Yes it does!









(source)


(Also this is pretty great.)

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Okay, so clearly I need to do more detailed hunts for these things than just typing "navarre pigtails" into GIS and trying my luck. That one's on me.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Chapter 8: Render Unto Caesar (Battle)

So, last time we reached Port Warren, and it was immediately attacked. Letís try and fix that.



Two new guys immediately. Honestly considered ending the previous update here because of that, but I am a slave to my own dumb regulations for splitting them.

: Grust has gathered its knights by the fortresses to the north. Itís dangerous for you to stay here. Thankfully, the eastern castle has been left almost entirely unguarded; thatís the place to strike. Please be careful, sire. Weíll be fighting with you all the way.

Well, they wonít, but thatís just my choice. Also, yeah, Radd doesnít get a single line. Shadow Dragonís bad about that.




Caesar shows up looking like a slightly worse Ogma. Heís very similar, but he beats him out by a decent chunk in Speed (and Magic, but who cares), suffering a few minor dips elsewhere, coupled with his later joining time.

I think heís not as good as Ogma, but heís a pretty solid unit if you raise him up. At least, it looks that way. Iíve never done it, so...Iíd like to try doing it on this run.




Radd is hurt pretty hard coming at Level 1. Comparing him to Navarre, heíll hit harder if trained up, but heís not quite as quick or accurate. Heís also, I think, significantly harder to get caught up, and Iím not huge on Myrmidons anyway, so Iím not planning on much with Radd. Heís not too bad, though.




Pretty much everyone aside from our two newbies and Wendell run straight north. No sense in making the bad guys wait.




I plan on getting Caesar to an acceptable level in this chapter which just...translates to a shitton of Arena leveling. This is risky, do not try at home, unless you like saving and restarting. Then yeah, go ahead.




Also, shopping! Thatís what Raddís for. Iím just going to these stores in a counterclockwise order, starting from the bottom right. This has nothing Iím really interested in, weíre well stocked on all this stuff.




Two Knights, two Archers, and some of the Cavaliers will charge you immediately. All the Horsemen stay put, though.




So, immediate threat to deal with here is these four cavaliers. The Steel Swords mean they hit decently hard, at least compared to most of the enemies in this chapter.




This is what Wendellís here for, by the way. Healing up Caesar between Arena bouts.




The second shop has what really matters...a second Wing Spear! You can only buy one of them, but itís a great refill for Caedaís cavalier/Knight slaughter factory.




I just put our bulkier units along the perimeter of the Cavalier charge here, eliminating this particularly ballsy one.




Huh. Barst might actually get MVP of this game. Heís doubling the Cavs!




Marth, unfortunately, cannot, but 16 damage out of their 22 HP is nothing to ignore.




Especially when we have an accurate chip damage dealer conveniently right there. This was mostly for some more bow EXP, though, as Draug is hurting for a Steel Bow right about now.




Also...Ridersbane? Good poo poo.




Thanks to all that, weíre already prepared to intercept the Knights. The one furthest from the team is Roger, so I donít want to put him in Barstís hammer range. This is enough to just catch out his buddy.




The next store also happens to have my next purchase, a duplicate Rapier! Like the Wing Spear, limited to one, but itís nice that you get this. Most Fire Emblems donít replenish the character locked weapons.




You can guess what happened to that Knight.




And now Rogerís in a pretty perfect spot.




Letís chat. This is one of the funnier recruitment conversations.




: Ack!

: Peace, Iíve no wish to fight you. My name is Caeda. I hail from Talys.

: Wh-what are you talking to me for?! This is a battlefield!

I love that only Roger reacts this way.

: Might I trouble you by asking your name, good sir?

: M-my name? Thatís- Itís RogerÖ Why?

: Hee hee, forgive me, Roger, itís just you looked sweet and kind. I just had to stop and talk to you. Tell me: do you believe in love? Oh, listen to me. Iím sure you already have a sweetheart back in Grust.

: What?! No, no! IÖ mean, er, Iím quite unattached at the moment.

This is what happens when your armies primarily consist of highschoolers.

: Roger, think of the children- the poor women and children who shed tears every day this war drags on. I joined the Archanean League to put an end to it, but I justÖjustÖ*Sniff* Oh, Roger, doesnít it break your heart?

: Aye, miss. There, there. I, too, wish nothing more than for this needless war to end.

: Then...would you consider fighting with us to end it?

: What? Oh heavens, noÖ Iím sorry, but I could never betray my kingdom.

: Ah, yes, I see. You must have family back in Grust who are counting on you.

: No, not especially. My parents are dead, and itís not as if Iíve a girl to call my own. But Grust is my home- always has been. I wonít betray her.

: And I cannot convince you to change your mind?

: Iím afraid not, miss.

: All right, sorry to bother you. But Iím glad we had this chance to talk, Roger. Youíre every bit the man I thought you were. Goodbye, then...

: Wait-youíre leaving?!

: Well, yes, Roger, I must! Every moment I stay here, I put you at risk. What if your comrades thought you were conspiring with the enemy? No, I must goÖ

I mean, his comrades arenít going to last too much longer.

: ÖYouíre very kind, Caeda. Dare I say, we donít have girls quite like you back in Grust.





And so we have Roger on our side now. Oddly, for a guy who starts as a Knight, Rogerís HP and Defense growths are absolute garbage. His Luck, though, is through the roof, tied for the highest in the game, and his Strength of 35% (before class bonuses) is great as well. He can coast a bit on those Knight tankiness bases, though, and he makes for a pretty solid wall for a while. We have Wolf for that, though.

Roger can get a reclass to be a pretty solid offensive unit, but Iíve never been all that fond of him. By the way, see if you can spot my positioning mistake.



Julian gets the last kill here, since heís hurting for experience. He also desperately needs weapon levels.




So long as he keeps getting level ups like that, Iím happy to feed him kills.




Oh poo poo that dude has a bow.




Iíll just block that square!

...it was about three seconds later I realized I picked the wrong square.




Lena, you are not helping.




Thatís nice though.




Well, at least Marth gets to chat with our newest recruit.




: Well, at least I was. Iím through fighting against you. Let me join your League.

: Well, certainly. We need all the strong allies we can get. But why the sudden change of heart?

: Well, erÖ Thereís this fetching girl named Caeda who asked me to, and, uhÖ What can I say? I think Iím in love. Try saying no to a girl who comes racing up to you in the heat of battle just to ask if you believe in love! Whew! I mustíve turned red as a strawberry! Heh hehÖ

: ÖÖ

Agreed.




This is a good store. Blizzard and Thunder are both Rank D tomes, but Blizzardís a bit more powerful with less accuracy. I think itís still worth it, because dodge rates are bad in this game. I got one of each anyway.




Thankfully, these Horsemen are so wimpy they canít OHKO Caeda with their triple damage bows.




I...did sorta pull the whole valley, though. Shouldnít be too much of a problem.




This chapter really is just a workout for Marth and Caedaís special weapons.




There we go!




...It would help if Abel didnít miss with the superweapon.




Caeda doesnít miss. Also sheís almost capped out speed. At level 8. Caeda rules.




Thatís about as many walls as I can fit in there, so the rest of the team moves to deal with the Knight/Archer group.




We have some pretty attractive bait. And by attractive, I mean ďwearing a giant suit of sheer steel and beefĒ.




Oh, Iím also still working with Caesar here.




The last shop contains mostly standard stuff. I bought 5 Vulneraries, though, because I really want one of those on pretty much any tanking unit.









Good news, Abelís learned to hit things again.




Abel! Itís always a roller coaster with this guy.




And Marth wipes up the last of the horse boys.




Looking nice over here...or is it? Donít forget about those forts.




Hereís Physic in action, by the way. It allows Lena to heal someone from anywhere on the map! Which is some pretty good poo poo.




Meanwhile, Iím just going full on aggressive here, because I can wipe these guys out in one turn.




Magic, finally!




The Armorslayerís sort of a miracle maker for dealing with Knights for squishy speedster types like Naborslayer.




Ogma, however, needs no special weapons to kick rear end. Heís just Ogma.




Unfortunately, this triggers their pals to appear. Interestingly, this chapter seems to work on getting close to the forts to summon reinforcements, not a turn timer. Thereís an invisible line somewhere in each of these little alcoves. Reinforcements are honestly my least favorite part of Fire Emblem on Hard+, because it just causes a lot of deaths that feel unfair since theyíre somewhat unpredictable.




So letís...inch closer and try to summon the others over here.




Meanwhile, the Knight team cleans up these new guys. No more archers will spawn here, by the way, so youíre safe with melee.




Yes, Ogma will continue to be awesome.

(Wow, I hope I didnít jinx myself there.)




Thankfully, Barst has enough HP that I donít mind putting him in the Reinforcement attack zone. It helps that it only takes him one hit to kill them, since a double would still give them room to counter.




I did put Wolf in front of him, though, because a double could still potentially kill our blue haired bruiser.




Interestingly, the reinforcements seem to have less defense than the originals, who Ogma was only doing 4 Damage per swipe to.




Oh, he also dodged the second one, and crit him to death. Iíve been strangely lucky on this map, but honestly itís not too hard, especially if you know how to handle the reinforcements. You can also just rush the boss, but hey, this is free EXP!




Still, thatís enough of that, no more Knights.




...Okay, are you guys coming, or?




...I guess not. Well, might as wellÖ




Aha! You sneaky fucks!




Donít mess with a horse rear end. Or a Ridersbane.




...Unless he whiffs with it again. Iím so conflicted on you, Abel.




Still, I just kept him there, and moved Roger and Marth up to get ready to block a fort. No more reinforcements spawned this turn, so I guess theyíre done.




...one sec.



Alright, that should cover it.




Thankfully that Horsemanís a bad shot too.




At the other end of the map, itís time to roast poor Kannival.




Even he knows heís hosed.




And now the reinforcements are back? Itís so oddly inconsistent.




Ah well. They werenít too equipped to handle a Rapier Marth.




Iím sorry I keep having Cord kill EVERY boss, but once they stop making all of them Generals/Knights, maybe Iíll get to switch it up more!




We also get this. This is interesting, itís a 1-2 Range Sword, the only one of its kind in this game. However, it also attacks with the Magic Stat...which very few sword users have. It struggles to find a good niche until around the 3DS games, when Tricksters and such become a unit.




Also...an empty Lena level? This is the worst Lena Iíve ever had.




I also moved Barst and Wolf off their perches to get a bit more EXP.




Hmm. Iíll take it.




Now that about everything else is done, Caesarís just finishing his training.




Even Wendell is beating you, Lena. Wendell! Heís older than Jagen!




Oh, hereís a nice tip if youíre Arena grinding, boss abusing, or healing for EXP. Normally the cursor will snap back to Marth at the start of each turn. Turn that off, it makes it go way faster. This works in the GBA games too.




The game disapproves of me spreading that insider info.









And thatís enough of that.









We just took their castle! Why is it...never mind, I wonít question Malledus.

: There are risks there, too- the Pyrathi king Mannu is said to be a descendant of the dragonkin, a Manakete. Still, weíve no other recourse. Weíll just have to take our chancesÖ Keep your wits about you, sire.




Next time: A really, really bad idea for a detour.

Bonus Content

Pretty much nobody relevant in this chapter has a card, soÖhere are some I like, partially just for the text.



Fighter of Talys, Bord
ĒIím not Cord, Iím Bord!Ē



Axe User of Talys, Cord
ĒIím not Bord, Iím Cord!Ē



Volunteer Soldier of Talys, Barst
ĒBord! Cord! Letís move!Ē

Apparently, if you use all three of these cards together, they get a pretty huge attack buff, which I think is entertaining, even though I donít really know how to play Cipher .

LordHippoman fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Jan 31, 2017

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Okay I laughed at the cards.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!

This game needs more Wallace so I'm giving this thread a 1

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


It's worth noting with the Levin Sword that in NES Shadow Dragon there was no magic stat, so it was basically just a decent spell. Also there's a map where it's not terrible because no one told IS taking a map with Not-Bow Armor Knights and making their not-bows ballistas while keeping the tank part would not be the greatest idea in the world. so you want as many sources of magic damage as you can get.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

Last Celebration posted:

It's worth noting with the Levin Sword that in NES Shadow Dragon there was no magic stat, so it was basically just a decent spell. Also there's a map where it's not terrible because no one told IS taking a map with Not-Bow Armor Knights and making their not-bows ballistas while keeping the tank part would not be the greatest idea in the world. so you want as many sources of magic damage as you can get.

I just responded to in kind and gave them a taste of long range bullshit.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011



LordHippoman posted:

Okay, so clearly I need to do more detailed hunts for these things than just typing "navarre pigtails" into GIS and trying my luck. That one's on me.

Clearly you need to use the proper term, senpai



Oh, and!



It's pretty neat.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



LordHippoman posted:

Axe User of Talys, Cord
ĒIím not Bord, Iím Cord!Ē

Well, I guess he does use an axe.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



For as much as swords get the marquee treatment in the series (every main character lord except Hector, Ephraim and Micaiah wields swords as their default weapon), they do get the short end of the stick in places you'd think they would not. The big problem with the Levin Sword and the other magic swords in the series is that for the longest time, these were the only non-legendary ranged sword options available to the player. So, you had to either pray you had a sword user with a decent magic growth to capitalize, or fight enemy units with absolute dogshit for a resistance stat in order to get the most use out of them. By contrast, axes and lances have almost always had plenty of ranged options like hand axes and javelins to grant units more flexibility in their loadouts. It's why you can dump several lances on say, Abel, and only need to give him one sword since lances have more versatility in combat.

Thankfully, Fates gives the player an option in the form of the Kodachi and Wakizashi weapons so the issue was alleviated a little bit. Which would be fine, except both those weapons come with setbacks like not being able to double opponents. But then the game also created the Kukuri line, enemy exclusive ranged swords that do not have the drawbacks (outside of the basic penalties that steel and silver weapons carry) of the aforementioned Kodachi and Wakizashi...so yeah, swords still get screwed over in the ranged option department.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

vilkacis posted:



It's pretty neat.

Whoa, that rules. I thought they might do something like that but I didn't actually try lining them up. I know the Royals cards in the Fates series do something like that too.

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

This game needs more Wallace so I'm giving this thread a 1

Harsh but fair.


Blaze Dragon posted:

Well, I guess he does use an axe.

Not even I got this one until it sunk in. I'm glad that joke is paying off.


Last Celebration posted:

It's worth noting with the Levin Sword that in NES Shadow Dragon there was no magic stat, so it was basically just a decent spell. Also there's a map where it's not terrible because no one told IS taking a map with Not-Bow Armor Knights and making their not-bows ballistas while keeping the tank part would not be the greatest idea in the world. so you want as many sources of magic damage as you can get.

Oh, yeah, I don't mean to insinuate the Levin Sword is unusable or anything, it's just really, really niche compared to the Javelin or Hand Axe, which are much more common and tend to ruin your damage less.


AradoBalanga posted:

For as much as swords get the marquee treatment in the series (every main character lord except Hector, Ephraim and Micaiah wields swords as their default weapon), they do get the short end of the stick in places you'd think they would not.

One thing I think is interesting is that Path of Radiance featured the Flame Lance and Bolt Axe, which had the same effects as the Levin Sword, but for the other two weapon types. Then they were pretty summarily forgotten and the Flame Lance never appeared again, but the Bolt Axe was in Awakening as an obscure late game drop. (Just in time for WAR CLERICS )

There was also a "Wind Sword" in FE7, but to get it, you had to have the special edition of Mario Kart: Double Dash with the bonus disc, put that in a Gamecube, and transfer data from that to your GBA with Fire Emblem in it via a link cable. It was the most bizarre thing, and I still did it on my original FE7 cartridge.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



LordHippoman posted:

There was also a "Wind Sword" in FE7, but to get it, you had to have the special edition of Mario Kart: Double Dash with the bonus disc, put that in a Gamecube, and transfer data from that to your GBA with Fire Emblem in it via a link cable. It was the most bizarre thing, and I still did it on my original FE7 cartridge.
Sacred Stones also has that weapon, but you can only get it either by: clearing the 8th floor of the Tower of Valni and recruiting Ismaire in the Creature Campaign, or pray for a 2.55% item spawn chance on a Cyclops monster. And those monsters are either in the later skirmishes (i.e., after clearing the Rausten map) or the upper tower floors/Lagdou Ruins. So, good luck finding that weapon.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



AradoBalanga posted:

For as much as swords get the marquee treatment in the series (every main character lord except Hector, Ephraim and Micaiah wields swords as their default weapon), they do get the short end of the stick in places you'd think they would not. The big problem with the Levin Sword and the other magic swords in the series is that for the longest time, these were the only non-legendary ranged sword options available to the player. So, you had to either pray you had a sword user with a decent magic growth to capitalize, or fight enemy units with absolute dogshit for a resistance stat in order to get the most use out of them. By contrast, axes and lances have almost always had plenty of ranged options like hand axes and javelins to grant units more flexibility in their loadouts. It's why you can dump several lances on say, Abel, and only need to give him one sword since lances have more versatility in combat.

Thankfully, Fates gives the player an option in the form of the Kodachi and Wakizashi weapons so the issue was alleviated a little bit. Which would be fine, except both those weapons come with setbacks like not being able to double opponents. But then the game also created the Kukuri line, enemy exclusive ranged swords that do not have the drawbacks (outside of the basic penalties that steel and silver weapons carry) of the aforementioned Kodachi and Wakizashi...so yeah, swords still get screwed over in the ranged option department.

For what it's worth, all the ranged options have that set back in Fates. Kodachi, Javelins & Hand Axes all prevent doubling, prevent crits and make you easier to double. Wakizashi, Spear & Tomahawks deal more damage & can crit but also are locked to 2 range like bows.

Enemies also get naginata/javelin/axe equivalents to the Kukuri to mess with you, too. Stationery enemies love to get hings like Nageyari, which come in iron/steel/silver flavors and are statistically just like their naginata counterparts except they get 1-2 range with no draw backs. I think it's done to prevent stationery bosses from being pecked away or trapped and still be dangerous throughout the game with their ability to double, crit, etc. while staying concurrent with your weapons.

e: That said swords still kind of get the short end of the stick in Conquest, iirc. Unless you start visiting other castles you don't get access to the Koadchi and have to deal with the Levin Sword (which Birthright doesn't get by default). Likewise I believe Javelins are mostly only available in Conquest. Both games get throwing options for axes/clubs.

rannum fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jan 30, 2017

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


AradoBalanga posted:

Thankfully, Fates gives the player an option in the form of the Kodachi and Wakizashi weapons so the issue was alleviated a little bit. Which would be fine, except both those weapons come with setbacks like not being able to double opponents. But then the game also created the Kukuri line, enemy exclusive ranged swords that do not have the drawbacks (outside of the basic penalties that steel and silver weapons carry) of the aforementioned Kodachi and Wakizashi...so yeah, swords still get screwed over in the ranged option department.

To be fair, the enemy throwing swords are pretty much a Conquest-only thing, where your only ranged options are a single Kodachi. And it's not like spears and axes don't have those either while you're stuck with your -5 AS Hand Axes.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


I like how they decided to nerf every good ranged weapon in Fates, and then introduce literally the best 1-2 range type in franchise history with the Shuriken/Daggers.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Tae posted:

I like how they decided to nerf every good ranged weapon in Fates, and then introduce literally the best 1-2 range type in franchise history with the Shuriken/Daggers.

I guess the idea is weaken the "normal" options to make the ranged weapon triangle more viable rather than just loading up all your best lance & axe uers with cheap ranged weapons and going to town.

but then they made 1/3rd of the ranged weapons significantly superior despite lower damage so woops.

e: This reminds me, are there not a lot of pegasus/wyvern knights in this game? Or are they all in the back half. Poor bow users if so

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Tae posted:

I like how they decided to nerf every good ranged weapon in Fates, and then introduce literally the best 1-2 range type in franchise history with the Shuriken/Daggers.

No, you see it's balanced, because...

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