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MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Sjs00 posted:

It makes no sense why the game has such good writing initially and then just....doesn't.

It makes plenty of sense. This game is nearly 30 years old originally, and they didnt really put any effort into cleaning, improving, or expanding it up beyond the graphics.

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Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Sjs00 posted:

It makes no sense why the game has such good writing initially and then just....doesn't.

It does make sense. The prologue is new content so it allows itself to be good, the rest is the same content as the original game, untouched, having aged really badly and comparing just as badly to newer games but nonetheless unchanged.

EDIT: my post is also similarly dated and bad, I should've refreshed before posting.

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

How about the gaiden chapters? I don't recall in Tena's LP some incredible writing but I could be wrong. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Although you are doing a great job of making the narrative interesting Lord Hippo!

MightyPretenders
Feb 21, 2014



I have something to say once we reach the first Gaiden chapter about how the tone of Fire Emblem has changed over the years. The reason why I'm waiting until then is because the Gaiden chapter illustrates it well.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



MythosDragon posted:

It makes plenty of sense. This game is nearly 30 years old originally, and they didnt really put any effort into cleaning, improving, or expanding it up beyond the graphics.

I dont think you can class these graphics as effort.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Miacis posted:

Between this and the infamous side chapters requirements, I think the dev team wanted to try and go back to the original game's philosophy that it's okay to lose units, and players should try to make their own story, instead of going for a perfect ending. It's pretty telling that a tutorial would have a house telling you to accept your losses, and reward you not once but twice for having dead units.

I imagine this game seemed like their best bet at curbing the "always restart if you lose any unit" mentality, seeing as FE1 had very light long-term consequences for deaths, and units didn't have much character to speak of. Unfortunately for them, it was poorly implemented with the gaiden quotas getting silly by endgame, and no story relation between the deaths and the rewards you get. (Two Knights died! Here's a country girl archer!) Not that rewarding a form of failure was a fantastic idea in the first place, either...

And so Heroes of Light and Shadow ended up backpedaling, implementing casual mode, removing incentive to losing units, and running casualty checks throughout the story that compliment the player for not losing anyone.

This is a really good point. I think it's interesting, though, that Fire Emblem's never done a thing like with the Suikoden games where you get some extra reward at the end for having everyone recruited/alive, to my knowledge.


MythosDragon posted:

I just thought of something, pretty sure this game gives you generics when you run under the 15 or something units. Has anyone done a generic challenge run? Onthat note, do other games in the series give you generics if you murder everyone?

You do get the generics, and they only appear in this game and the sequel. I think I've read about someone doing a generic unit run, but it wasn't on SA, I forget where exactly.


theshim posted:

Marth, though? He has a resistance growth rate.

It's 2%.

We're off to a good start.

I'm glad we managed to start the game by catching a shiny Marth. Unfortunately I have doubts the RNG will hold.


Rigged Death Trap posted:

I dont think you can class these graphics as effort.

I want to mention real quick how much I don't like the top screen in this one.



It's this weird sorta beige and it's like they're going for a "dragons" motif, but only made it like halfway there. Compare the sequel:



It's just a nice blue and I think it looks a lot better. That's just me, though. The whole next update is actually just going to be me picking out wallpaper.

Actual fair warning about the next few updates, now that we're in the real game, I probably won't update as frequently as with the prologues. Sorry, work is flaring up soon, and things are going to get a lot more complex.

LordHippoman fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Nov 28, 2016

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





theshim posted:


This whole conversation is wonderful. Imagine a whole game with this quality of writing.

Well, I'm not sure if I'd say it's a whole game case, but that exchange does feel very 8-4 (the localization team for Shadow Dragon), and the same sense of humor tends to show up in their other work.

They also did Awakening. It's pretty fun, I think. Got a sense of humor, especially in the supports.

Of course, their best work is probably Armstrong's speech in Revengeance, but expecting a whole game at that level is madness.

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.

I will never understand why didn't didn't continue with 8-4 when they brought Fates over. (I replayed Awakening recently, and it really struck me how much better that script reads, ya know?)

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014



chiasaur11 posted:

Well, I'm not sure if I'd say it's a whole game case, but that exchange does feel very 8-4 (the localization team for Shadow Dragon), and the same sense of humor tends to show up in their other work.

Did they do Days of Ruin, too? The one mook that was astonished that people managed to field a sizable armed force on the wing of a giant aircraft ("Sweet corn casserole, they have ROCKETS!!!") was probably the best part of that game.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





AweStriker posted:

Did they do Days of Ruin, too? The one mook that was astonished that people managed to field a sizable armed force on the wing of a giant aircraft ("Sweet corn casserole, they have ROCKETS!!!") was probably the best part of that game.

Nope. That was Treehouse, far as I know.

And, to be fair to them (they do a lot of good work, even if I think 8-4's highlights are better), I'm pretty sure the fact Fates had a different writing team for supports and the main game was also relevant to the worse writing. I have no idea why those got outsourced.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!


Awakening's writing does indeed knock Fates out of the park, both in terms of the fact that Fates has stupid plot and ideas while Awakening's just sputters out and in that the writing itself takes often simple situations and still conveys them wonderfully. Chrom confronting Gangrel or Walhart has some spectacular dialogue, even if there's nothing crazy different about it, and the supports are mostly amazing in Awakening(I am particularly fond of Gaius/Maribelle and honestly it might be one of the best supports in the series).

It's not that Treehouse is bad so much as 8-4 is very, very good.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

theshim posted:

Awakening's writing does indeed knock Fates out of the park, both in terms of the fact that Fates has stupid plot and ideas while Awakening's just sputters out and in that the writing itself takes often simple situations and still conveys them wonderfully. Chrom confronting Gangrel or Walhart has some spectacular dialogue, even if there's nothing crazy different about it, and the supports are mostly amazing in Awakening(I am particularly fond of Gaius/Maribelle and honestly it might be one of the best supports in the series).

It's not that Treehouse is bad so much as 8-4 is very, very good.

I think one thing Awakening is really good at is taking some very one note characters, like pretty much all the Fire Emblems have, but making their gimmicks fun and playing off of each other well in the supports. There were also some really good character moments you only got in the supports, like Frederick going from grumpy stuffy token stoic one to OCD fitness instructor with a hint of pyromania and a stack of posters of naked Chrom.

I didn't really get that in Fates, the supports felt more kinda like each character doing their gimmick in turns than anything else. There are still some good characters (I love Arthur and OPHELIA DUSK), but I didn't really like them as much as in Awakening. Fates kinda shoots way too high and ends up with too many characters without many developed ones, and a story that completely relies on everyone being oblivious to everything, which isn't satisfying for the player.

I could go on, but I don't want to accidentally derail my own thread too hard. Feel free to discuss general FE stuff here if y'all want, though, I've got no objections. (Just try to use spoiler tags for the newer games if you want to get into how dumb (Fates Spoilers!)your dad is a slime beast but you can't tell anyone or you'll die is.)

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





theshim posted:

Awakening's writing does indeed knock Fates out of the park, both in terms of the fact that Fates has stupid plot and ideas while Awakening's just sputters out and in that the writing itself takes often simple situations and still conveys them wonderfully. Chrom confronting Gangrel or Walhart has some spectacular dialogue, even if there's nothing crazy different about it, and the supports are mostly amazing in Awakening(I am particularly fond of Gaius/Maribelle and honestly it might be one of the best supports in the series).

It's not that Treehouse is bad so much as 8-4 is very, very good.

My favorite's probably Ricken and Henry, which is funny since I'm not so keen on Ricken (much better than Hayato, at least). Both characters develop (Ricken learns that his enemies are people, same as his friends. Henry develops attachment to people in ways he didn't have in Plegia), it retroactively gives more characterization to a few of the bosses, and it's pretty funny. But yeah. Awakening's line-by-line is topnotch, which helps when the broader plot stumbles.

I'd also say it's a major problem that Fates has a worse core. Robin and Chrom are characters with reasonably fleshed out personalities. Corrin is... well, hosed if I know what Corrin is, other than awful. There's no constant personality there, yet every drat scene in the main plot revolves around him or her.)

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






I'm feeling really giddy to know that me not being a huge fan of tons of people in Fates isn't just me being weird. I mean, Arthur and Odin aside, at least.


LordHippoman posted:

I think one thing Awakening is really good at is taking some very one note characters, like pretty much all the Fire Emblems have, but making their gimmicks fun and playing off of each other well in the supports. There were also some really good character moments you only got in the supports, like Frederick going from grumpy stuffy token stoic one to OCD fitness instructor with a hint of pyromania and a stack of posters of naked Chrom.

I didn't really get that in Fates, the supports felt more kinda like each character doing their gimmick in turns than anything else. There are still some good characters (I love Arthur and OPHELIA DUSK), but I didn't really like them as much as in Awakening. Fates kinda shoots way too high and ends up with too many characters without many developed ones, and a story that completely relies on everyone being oblivious to everything, which isn't satisfying for the player.

I could go on, but I don't want to accidentally derail my own thread too hard. Feel free to discuss general FE stuff here if y'all want, though, I've got no objections. (Just try to use spoiler tags for the newer games if you want to get into how dumb (Fates Spoilers!)your dad is a slime beast but you can't tell anyone or you'll die is.)

LordHippoman posted:

I could go on, but I don't want to accidentally derail my own thread too hard. Feel free to discuss general FE stuff here if y'all want, though, I've got no objections. (Just try to use spoiler tags for the newer games if you want to get into how dumb (Fates Spoilers!)your dad is a slime beast but you can't tell anyone or you'll die is.)

Seemed pretty decent to me, considering how often dark gods manipulating people to be their vessels has been done throughout the FE games. And it's not like you can just ask your family to believe that one with no proof. Xander's already too sword happy when it comes to Corrin and calling it 'training' I still do wish they could've settled on giving Corrin a personality beyond worrying about if that choice was the right one or not every cutscene. Because to me it just came off like an elbow-y 'Hey maybe you should buy the other two games? Huh? HUH HUH HUH?' thing rather than adding to the story in any way. It's like CW Flash with pep talks.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

My biggest problem with 13 and 14 is the support method, I'm the psychopath that grinded out every single support you can in a single playthrough of 13. Someone told me I didnt need to save my S supports so my gallery was missing them all. It took 110 hours, and after being horrifically overpowered from grinding them it basically took me 10 hours to beat the story, so like 100 hours of grinding. What I want is to use 9 and 12's # of Maps together method, cut grinding out till the post game, and then just let you go hogwild to get them all then.

Glaive17
Oct 11, 2012

What is there left to discover about donuts...?


Pillbug

Oh hey, you started up another LP pretty quick, glad I check the new LP's thread every once in a while. Glad to see we are back to Fire Emblem! Great stuff so far!

Also, telling this from the perspective of Jagen on his death bed telling Steve another tale of glory in his final moments is loving gold.

I had forgotten how ridiculous Steve's head had gotten by the end of the last LP!

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Glaive17 posted:

I had forgotten how ridiculous Steve's head had gotten by the end of the last LP!

Oh poo poo thanks for mentioning that. Credit for the base Steve portrait goes to vilkacis, and the massive hat tower was made, along with many other Steves, by CamelPimp.

Chapter 1: Pirate Palooza

Well, there goes the Prologue. Now weíll be hopping into the main game.

This, unfortunately, means that all my units levels are back to 1. On Normal, you can just keep playing from the prologue and keep all that progress, but since Hard skips the Prologue, weíre starting fresh.



Basically itís what the top screen says.




There are five degrees of Hard in this game. Merciless is utterly soul crushing and sort of the precursor to modern Lunatic mode. Iím only doing 1-star hard because Iím not good and I donít want to hold up entire updates while I try to fumble around a chokepoint or whatever.

The only mechanical/map differences are between Normal and Hard, the stars just make enemies tougher.




No matter which mode you start on, you get the same opening narration.

: Long ago, Medeus, king of the dragonkin, conquered the continent of Archanea.

: No, youíre looping again!




A little extra bit is tacked on to summarize the events of the prologue, though. Including the crew in these ominous hoods. Evidently they all swapped to Dark Mage.




Oh, look, the bottom screen is still blank. Thatís...thatís an easter egg.







: they could not take his life. Marth lived, and made it to the eastern isle of Talys. Talys was a small border kingdom, with no grand order of knights to boast of, but its king selflessly gave Marth use of the isleís eastern fortress.

Iím pretty sure Talys literally does not have any army at all. Iím not sure why this is the safest refuge for the chosen one of the divine sword.

: And as he saw the boy shake with anger and grief, he also gave wise counsel: ďPrince Marth,Ē he said, ďI do not doubt you love your sister something great. But you must be patientÖtime is on your side. If you stay here, and grow stronger, a time will come when you can help her.Ē So Marth stayed in Talys, protected by its kind people, and the years went byÖ

It was two years. Thatís barely plural.




Here we are in the peaceful kingdom of Talys.




So much for the peaceful kingdom of Talys.




This guy dismantled a village!




But whoís this? And why does her sprite have green hair?








Marthís got a new portrait for his new age. Two years did a lot for the guy.




: They stormed the gates and cut down everyone in their path! I fear for my fatherís lifeÖ

So far we are potentially 0/2 on dads.

: Steady, Caeda. You did well to come find us. Alteaís bravest knights arenít about to hand Talys to that flock of seafowl. Come, weíll make for the castle now!




Hey, itís our first real map! With new units and everything! We start on the east side of the island, the Castle is on the west.

This place might look a little familiar if you played the first set of DLC maps in Awakening.




First off, hereís Draug, who weíve already met, but havenít seen on the battlefield. Draug is a Knight, who are your archetypical tank class. They have high Defense and use Lances, but they are slow and suffer from a painfully low Movement score. Draug himself actually has a surprisingly decent Speed growth for a Knight, but heís going to have some trouble gaining Strength and really being much aside from a wall, at least in his base class.


His natural beefiness makes him a good lure for the incoming Pirates.




While Abel whiffs a Javelin (again) Iíll talk about a very special unit type here, the Thief. Thieves are fast and do decent damage with their Swords (No bows until the 3DS games.), but theyíre squishy. Most importantly, enemy thieves can destroy Villages, potentially depriving you of goodies.

Never be deprived of your goodies. Kill thieves ASAP. Theyíre also worth a bucketload of XP, if it helps.




Meet the queen.




Caeda, also known as ďShiidaĒ if you live in Europe, is a Pegasus Knight. Peg Knights can fly over terrain, get great movement, and they get fantastic Luck and Speed. Unfortunately they are squishy, and their attacks donít tend to do a ton of damage.

Caeda is all of that to a pretty extreme degree. Her speed growth is ridiculous, as is her luck, and thatís without the Pegasus Knight bonuses. Sheíll have some trouble dealing damage against defensive enemies, but see that weapon sheís holding? Thatís the Wing Spear. The Wing Spear is Caeda exclusive, and it does triple damage automatically against any horseback or armored units. This game has boatloads of both, making Caeda a really, really good character, if you can keep her alive.




Meanwhile the Pirates smash themselves against Draug. Starting with 11 Defense is pretty drat useful this early on.




About three of them will rush you.




ďPirateĒ is not only the faction these guys are, itís also a class, which is why this guy is called ďPirate PirateĒ. Pirates are locked to Axes, and they have worse base stats than their closest relatives, the Fighters. They can, however, walk on water.




The double cavalier buddy line is an unstoppable defensive tactic.




Oh, I also accidentally just let this guy through to whack Gordin. Walk it off, buddy.




Thereís a village near the start of the map, donít forget to have Marth Visit it!








Iím extremely okay with this. If you take too long killing that thief, he might destroy this village.




Caeda also crit this guy. Her first two hits were criticals. Iím sensing good things from our Pegasus Pal.





Abel also finally hit a drat Javelin.




That fort is going to make Draug functionally invincible, so Iím moving him there while the rest of my units regroup and trickle in.




While the pirates up top go for Draug, thereís still one down here trying to mess with the Cavaliers.




Then Abel missed a javelin.




The ďuse meĒ radar is slowly swinging more and more towards Cain.




...I mentioned Iím not good at this, right? Keep walking it off, Gordin!




This Pirate chose to attack Jagen. This was a poor decision, but it also let me know that Jagen canít even double these level 1 pirates.




So, with one of our units...a bit the worse for wear, I want to clean up these pirates this turn, before they can make more trouble. Time to divy up the damage a bit.




Easy pickings.




Gordin provided enough chip damage to let Draug pull off the kill here.


This guy was just hosed. I should mention Caeda can double all these enemies.




This is the most Caeda of level ups.




ďSo Hippoman,Ē you ask, delayed like fifteen screens up, ďwhat do you do with that Gold you got?Ē

Iím glad you conveniently asked now. This is the Armory, youíll find these scattered around the maps.




Since weapons have durability, itís important to stock up. You can buy them at these shops. This one only has the basics, but I got one of each except the Bow, and two Iron Lances, since we have so many people using those.




The rest of the pirates are a bit more deeply entrenched, so itís time to lure them out.




I also gave Caeda a Javelin. Any items you get over the inventory limit (5) will be sent to your Convoy, which Marth can access. This should help stop me from wasting the Wing Spear.




Operation Draug Bait was a success, leading to this Pirate and Hunter coming over.

Hunters are like Archers but angry. They have more damage, but less defensive power. This generally makes them better, because hopefully your bow guys arenít getting hit too much anyway.

Iíve marked his range specifically because bows deal triple damage to fliers, and now that we have Caeda, that would be a one shot kill.




Oh, Draug also got a level from killing that Pirate. Not exactly blowing me away here yet, guys.




I just really like this screenshot. This wasnít a miss, Marth is just a big fan of absorbing arrows with his neck.




gently caress that guy, though.




Thereís a Fort right in the range of the remaining pirates. How handy! Marthís gonna camp there.




Group Hug, everyone.

: They left me out of the group hug.

:




Well, it worked. Now to actually dispose of these guys.




Caedaís a bit more accurate with this thing than Abel.




And Cainís 10 XP away from a level, which is coincidentally what getting hit gives you. Letís hope this other pirate takes the bait.




Thanks, pal.




And so the chain of two stat level ups continues. Donít worry. Itís gonna be fine.




Iím kinda feeding Caeda EXP here as a gut reflex, since I usually play on Normal and sheís still level 1 and way weaker than the others at that point.




New strategy, everybody just line up.




They really like to go for Cain.




Marth gets him low, and dodges the counter.




And Abel kills him off. Ignore the encroaching darkness, I was just a little late on the screenshot trigger.




The boss here is Gazzak. Gazzakís got a Steel Axe, which alone makes him more powerful than anything else weíve seen. He also deals some pretty big damage, and the Gate heís on is basically just an outdoor Throne, so he can be tough to take down. Youíll want to do this gradually.




Or, because he has no ranged weapon, you could potentially just pummel him to death with bows and javelins. This is a way to ďBoss AbuseĒ, since Gazzak heals himself, you can just sorta grind EXP that way. Iím not doing it because I donít want to just blow through the game.




Even though he called us ďsprogsĒ.




I didnít say I wouldnít shoot him a few times for fun.




So, with bosses, itís good to check the combat forecast. If I were to attack with Abel here, on the Enemy Phase he could potentially attack again and kill him. That, hypothetically, would suck, and make me have to restart the map and delete a ton of screenshots because gently caress. Good thing I didnít do that, and instead just leave him parked here.




But this guy is a heavy hitter. Maybe the village could provide us with a way to help that. Someone fast, someone strong, someone




: Take me with you, and youíll be very glad you did.

WRYS WRYS WRYS WRY-

: -S WRYS WRYS WRYS WRYS




Hereís Wrys, our first Curate and Stave user! Curates/Clerics (for ladies) are a utility class, using Staves to provide various effects. Healing is chief among them, and Wrys can help you patch up your units.




Get Adjacent to them with Heal, and there you go. The amount of healing done scales with Magic. Wrys himself is apparently sort of a fan favorite in Japan for being this weird bald guy with one line who just shows up and is never relevant again. In the original remake of this game, FE3ís first half (this game has had TWO remakes), he was completely removed and replaced with a single Vulnerary. Satoru Iwata mentioned in an interview about this game that he liked Wrys (rip ). I kinda love him.

Statwise, heís actually really awful and will very soon be outclassed. The only thing Wrys really has going for him is a rather high Resistance growth, which is an extreme rarity in this game. He's also Wrys, though, so that carries some weight. Bless you, Wrys.







Gazzakís chunking away at Abel, but our new pal can help him sustain for a while. Caeda and Gordin keep firing away from the sidelines, and slowly but surely, his HP dwindles.




Another 2 stat level up, but I canít bring myself to complain about Strength on Caeda.




Holy poo poo, THREE. Itís turning around!







If we just keep progressing at this rate Iíll be getting stats that donít even exist by the end of the game.




...Abel. Can you do it? Can you show me what Javelin dreams are made of?




Majestic.





Not a bad prize. Vulneraries are usable items, they restore 10 HP. We had them in the prologue but I didnít use them.




A hard fought victory. Kinda. When we get to the longer maps Iíll cut more of the little details out, I donít want any completely page busting updates.

Oh and



They didnít even give this guy a name.

: Lad, I believe you are ready. If you wish to seek out allies in Aurelis, I will give you what soldiers I can to see you arrive there safely.

Marth never said he wanted that. He doesnít even talk for the rest of the chapter.



I have a good feeling about Captain Ogma.

: Another thingÖDuring your travels, you are certain to meet many who despise Dolhr. Some may be hiding in villages; other may have been captured or forced to fight against their will or better judgment.




Talk to people with portraits to recruit them.

: Understood, lad? Then go! The time has come! Be patient, steady, strong: I know you will do great things.




Next time we beat up even more pirates.


Itís bonus content time! Today we have the Cipher card for Talys King!



Iím kidding itís Caeda. I donít know why she looks like sheís like, six in that card though. One sec.



Fire Emblem did a crossover with Shin Megami Tensei for the Wii U. Itís called Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE and itís as aggressively anime as it sounds. I'm not through it all the way yet, but I did get to this! Hereís Caeda reimagined as like...uh, a mind ghost thing? Persona, basically.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



LordHippoman posted:

: They left me out of the group hug.

:
Have you considered that having giant spikes on your shoulders makes you less huggable, Jagen?

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

My favorite strategy is to just send Pegasus Knights flying around en masse murdering everything, while the plebeian non-fliers go a different route. I've never had an issue with them getting strength outside of the very last recruit of the game trope, then again I also use my stat boosters, I once saved them all for that unit and made it usable.

Taciturn Tactician
Jan 26, 2011

The secret to good health is a balanced diet and unstable healing radiation


Lipstick Apathy

It's weird to think that you have a pegasus knight who potentially will get wrecked by mages, considering they're basically spellproof in later games. You mentioned pegasus knight bonuses, incidentally, does reclassing change your growths? I imagine it changes your caps.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011



LordHippoman posted:

Oh poo poo thanks for mentioning that. Credit for the base Steve portrait goes to vilkacis, and the massive hat tower was made, along with many other Steves, by CamelPimp.

I'm helpful!

quote:


This is another example of weird amounts of character being put into everything that isn't the main cast. Look at those difficulty settings! They have more character than like... 95% of your army.

quote:

Iím pretty sure Talys literally does not have any army at all. Iím not sure why this is the safest refuge for the chosen one of the divine sword.

Exactly! No one would be dumb enough to hide in a place like that, so no one will be looking for him in a place like that! It's foolproof!

quote:

Caeda, also known as ďShiidaĒ if you live in Europe

And pronounced Shiida no matter where you live.

quote:


Yeeeesssss

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

AradoBalanga posted:

Have you considered that having giant spikes on your shoulders makes you less huggable, Jagen?

I don't think Jagen's even aware of the spikes. They're just there for him.


MythosDragon posted:

My favorite strategy is to just send Pegasus Knights flying around en masse murdering everything, while the plebeian non-fliers go a different route. I've never had an issue with them getting strength outside of the very last recruit of the game trope, then again I also use my stat boosters, I once saved them all for that unit and made it usable.

I tend to have good luck with most PKs as well. I remember having a really bad Caeda once, which was weird, but, like, last LP Catria was the MVP of the entire game, easily.


Taciturn Tactician posted:

It's weird to think that you have a pegasus knight who potentially will get wrecked by mages, considering they're basically spellproof in later games. You mentioned pegasus knight bonuses, incidentally, does reclassing change your growths? I imagine it changes your caps.

It does do both of those things, and I'll go over it in more detail once we actually hit the ability to reclass. Sorry for the confusion, just trying not to tutorialize too hard near the beginning of the LP.


vilkacis posted:


This is another example of weird amounts of character being put into everything that isn't the main cast. Look at those difficulty settings! They have more character than like... 95% of your army.



I really have to wonder if someone on the team was like, really strict with what changes they could make to the original script. Because stuff like that and the gaiden characters all being pretty cool points to a ton of effort with the writing that sorta flops in the main game somehow.

also

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



LordHippoman posted:

I don't think Jagen's even aware of the spikes. They're just there for him.
Man, he was going senile even before meeting Steve and recounting his life's adventures.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


quote:


Now I have the Kirby remix stuck in my head

I think I have yet to see any Fire Emblem LP in which Caeda sucked.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



No Wrys card
FOR SHAAAAAAAAAAAME

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Rigged Death Trap posted:

No Wrys card
FOR SHAAAAAAAAAAAME


I was saving it for when we get to the maps where we won't get Cipher characters! Don't worry, I wouldn't forget Wrys. I might forget one of the like 9 Marths.

But actually yeah, post it now, people should see spooky zombie Hero Wrys. It is a treasure.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011



That card is amazing

I read somewhere that the text goes along the lines of, "I am Wrys, a warrior. I will have time to heal your wounded after I've buried the enemies."

This may not actually be true, but I am still going to pretend that it is.

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

Holy poo poo; I suddenly want to order a ton of boosters and get that card

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!

If you start on Hard can you skip the sacrifice?

Mysticblade
Oct 22, 2012



If you play on Hard, it's just assumed that Frey will be the sacrifice. So playing Hard doesn't avoid the sacrifice, it just forces Frey into the role.

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

The game thrusts you into the fray

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

LordHippoman posted:

I really have to wonder if someone on the team was like, really strict with what changes they could make to the original script. Because stuff like that and the gaiden characters all being pretty cool points to a ton of effort with the writing that sorta flops in the main game somehow.

Miyamoto has a record for doing exactly this, so it wouldn't surprise me if he somehow forced his way into Intelligent Systems offices wearing Medeus' outfit and forbade them doing anything cool. I don't like Miyamoto, but I had fun imagining this.

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.


How the hell can you dislike Miyamoto of all people?

this game is actually not all that bad, mostly because it's a fire emblem game before things went excruciatingly weird, but as someone who more or less 100%d this, there's absolutely no defending the bonus chapters (and other associated stuff)

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

vilkacis posted:

I read somewhere that the text goes along the lines of, "I am Wrys, a warrior. I will have time to heal your wounded after I've buried the enemies."


Sjs00 posted:

Holy poo poo; I suddenly want to order a ton of boosters and get that card

The Fire Emblem Wiki, at least, has it listed as some kind of special promo card, and the text is apparently "ďI am Wrys, a hero. I might have time for healing...if I'm not giving my enemies a proper burial.Ē


Rabbi Raccoon posted:

If you start on Hard can you skip the sacrifice?

Basically what MysticBlade said, starting on Hard just skips the prologue and puts you straight in Chapter 1. There is no Hard Mode version of P1-P4 (Although the sequel has all difficulties for all of its prologues.)

This means that the list of normal exclusives are:

Frey
Norne
Any kind of EXP/items you can get for Marth, Jagen, Cain, Abel, Frey, or Gordin before the main game.


GeneX posted:

this game is actually not all that bad, mostly because it's a fire emblem game before things went excruciatingly weird, but as someone who more or less 100%d this, there's absolutely no defending the bonus chapters (and other associated stuff)

Honestly I have pretty much the same opinion. Game's fun, writing's dull and bonus chapters are the weirdest poo poo, but it's still pretty enjoyable to sit down and play.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

GeneX posted:

How the hell can you dislike Miyamoto of all people?

Precisely for the reason mentioned, the man has publicly said story focus hurts games, and told IS not to add story to a Mario subseries thats basically all about the story. Thats a pretty good way to get on the blacklist of a Story Gamer, don't you think?

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

I humbly request you reclass Wrys because Jegan's memory of him is a merciless axe murderer

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Sjs00 posted:

I humbly request you reclass Wrys because Jegan's memory of him is a merciless axe murderer

I actually can't because of some reclass limits. Curates can't be made into any axe wielding classes until they promote, at least. It's a weird thing called "Class Sets", I'll get into it more when we get to reclassing.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





LordHippoman posted:


I really have to wonder if someone on the team was like, really strict with what changes they could make to the original script. Because stuff like that and the gaiden characters all being pretty cool points to a ton of effort with the writing that sorta flops in the main game somehow.


I wonder if there's anything on the 8-4 podcast about it. I mean, they talk shop sometimes, including about the work on Awakening (the Demon's Ingle was the subject of some massive debate, believe it or not), and I wouldn't be surprised if they had something on Shadow Dragon at some point, even as a side note.

I know they changed Marth's personality something major from reading other stuff about the Japanese version. Summing up, if I remember right, Marth found his balls stateside, which is why fan translations of FE12 Marth feel like such comparative wusses.

Of course, the most badass Marth is Lucina, who based her identity on stories she heard of Marth being this take no prisoners hard case, and was rather surprised to hear the real story.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Chapter 2: The Ballad Oí Shanty Pete

Last time we saved the island kingdom of Talys from pirates and hunters. This time weíll do that, but moreso. (this is the last chapter like this)







Thatís two things.

: All that changed when a pirate crew fell upon the town and made it their hideout. Here, in Galder, history records Marthís first steps toward freeing his homeland.

: What about all that stuff last time?

: History doesnít care.




Oh, they have Cavaliers now. I guess itís not all just Pirates and hunters.




Thankfully, weíve got new friends too.




: The king has bid me and my three men join your army. Cavalry has arrived from the west, flying Grustís standard. They mean to take your life, sire. Be careful.

Grust sent literally two guys.




This map looks more complex than it is. Thereís a lot of rivers to cross (that are of no consequence to our pirate foes), but the bridges are plentiful and convenient. Weíll also have to deal with an attack from the north. Also, you might notice that I have Caeda highlighted, and Ogma has a yellow glow. More on that later.




Our objective is to the far west. Gomerís about the same thing Gazzak was, but he has range, so no cheesing him with Javelins or bows.




Also, this guy is mixed in with the enemies north of here. Weíll want Marth in his range. But we have FOUR new units to check out, so letís do that.




Ogma fuckiní rules. I donít know what else to say except that heís good. Heís got solid stats in just about everything thatís not magic related, and heís got a ton of usability, coming in at chapter 2.

Heís also our first Mercenary. Mercs are tanky and strong, but they arenít too quick, and they can only use swords. I donít like them quite as much as Cavaliers, but they are seriously a good class, especially in the early game when axes are all over the place.




Cord is alright. He suffers from starting with an E rank in his native weapon class, but his stats are okay. Compared to his brother Bord (yes, they are named Bord and Cord. Shadow Dragon.), heís faster, but lands less hits. Heís also got a hidden talent that I plan to show off when we get reclassing.




Bord is slower than Cord, but he gets more HP and strength. He gets a C off the bat in Axes, though, and comes with the Hammer, which is a triple damage weapon against armored classes. Theyíre both fighters, so they serve as decent hit-sinks at the very least.




If you read the last LP you know I love Barst. His personal Strength and HP growths are kinda shockingly bad (Somehow some of the lowest in the game, though simply being a Fighter gives him class growth bonuses that help balance that), but everything else is pretty solid. Iíve honestly always had good luck with him, it might be just because he comes early and with some fantastic base stats.

Honestly his growths were a lot lower than I expected, because Iíve always heard of people having great luck with Barst, even in his bad stats. Is this some kind of localized group hallucination?




Now that the introductions are out of the way, itís time to start the map. I want someone durable to block the upper bridge, so Ogmaís on call. I also want Marth on the very tip of Darrosí range, because I donít want to create an unintentional chokepoint.




Remember Ogmaís yellow aura? That means the currently selected unit can talk to them. This is especially useful when recruiting units, so you know who needs to speak to them. Although it is almost always Marth or Caeda.

This, however, is just a bonus flavor conversation. Itís the closest this game has to Support Conversations, and theyíre rare, so enjoy them when they come.




: ...Princess.

: I never got to thank you for coming along with us. Thereís no swordsman I trust more. Iíve seen your strength.

You can have this chat at any time with Caeda and Ogma, so...I guess assume he didnít literally just join us.

: You donít need to thank me, Princess. Iím just doing my job. Speaking of which, your father would flay me if you came to any harm.

Iím pretty sure thatís a joke, because Ogmaís whole backstory is that he was beaten to near death for helping a slave gladiator, and Caedaís intervention was the only thing that saved him. Of course thatís never mentioned in this game, because Shadow Dragon. Itís in the sequel though.


Or maybe King Talys is just a dick and Caeda takes after her unseen mom.

: Do me a favor, and leave the dangerous fighting to me and my men.


: I donít need protecting, Ogma. ÖIíve got another job for you. Protect Marth for me.


: But, PrincessÖ


: Heís very important to me. And the worldÖ But mostly to me. So do as I ask, Ogma. Keep him safe. Thatís my first and last request.

: Very well. How could I say no to you?

: Thank you, Ogma. I knew youíd understand. All right, I have to go. But I hope we get to talk like this more. Youíre a good listener.

: ...Princess.

: Yes?

: You keep yourself safe too. Marth would grieve if anything befell you.

: Fair enough. Thank you, Ogma. Youíre very kind.

Caeda and Ogma are pals! Theyíre such good pals, there was a DLC about it in the sequel. But thatís for later. Now theyíll never speak again.




Hereís how Iím set up for this turn. I want the bulk of the team ready to push west, but a few powerful units like Caeda and Ogma near the north to deal with the enemies up there.




Darros immediately runs up and talks to Marth. You donít even have to trigger this manually.

: Iíve had me fill oí the piratiní life, and now I be lookiní tístart anew. What say ye? Make me yer matey, and I swear típull me load.

Weíll make him our matey.




Apparently this pirate didnít like either bridge, and decides to use the river to go for Abel. Itís alright by me.




The Cavaliers on this map will also rush you, so itís easy to get them caught out without their allies if you time it right.




Now that we have Darros, I want to kill off the northern enemies. Caeda can double down the hunter.




As for Darros himself, heís the only recruitable natural Pirate in the game. I think Darros is pretty okay. Heís not great, but he hits hard and he gets quite a bit of HP. However, he has some pretty serious speed issues, which only get worse as the game goes on. If he doesnít get very lucky there, he can quickly become a liability.

For a bit of trivia, Darros didnít appear in the first remake of this game, FE3, but he was added back in for this and the sequel, just like Wrys.




For now though, Darros is gonna dice this goon.




The other pirate came around south for Cain, but since I moved Cain up to fight the northern front, Draug gets the kill.




One of Ogmaís best assets early on is his frankly ridiculous base speed. Sometimes he can double with his steel weapon, which will kill pretty much anything at this point.





Wrys.






Is this Abelís idea of a joke? Buddy. Please.





Youíre getting outshined by Gordin. This is embarrassing.





Second verse, same as the first. Two relatively durable units to wait for the incoming cavaliers.





Also Jagen sneaks in for some conversation. That wacky Jagen.





...Thanks?




The Cavaliers are pretty beefy, but itís nothing you canít deal with.





Also Barst is a storm of pain and axes.





The Rapier is, of course, an elegant solution to any Horse Problems.





Cord and Gordin team up to down the second Cavalier, and thatís all the impact they have. Way to go, Grust, you sure did assassinate Prince Marth!




Third verse, same as the previous two verses. Although, Bordís not that durable. Iím sure itíll be fine, though.


how could I gently caress this up?




There are some Hunters over there, including this guy. He looks like he could use a pick-me-up chat from a fellow blue-head.


I mean Caeda, because I just realized how ambiguous that is in this universe.





Iíll have Jagen pull him closer.





Bord manages to whiff this 82% in one of the more embarrassing misses so far.




Hereís your other hint to talk to Castor with Caeda, delivered hopefully not as he shoots Caeda. Which can totally happen.




Pulling Castor also pulls the other Hunter. It may look like Iíve bitten off more than I can chew, butÖ





So hereís a problem with Darros already. His strength and speed arenít enough to let him not get doubled against these guys with his Steel Axe. So this is just a death sentence.




I donít feel super confident about this setup. If only there were a handy feature with which I could achieve a sense of assurance.





SAVE TILES

The glowing blue tiles let you save your game mid-chapter. This is a compromise between FE10ís ďyou can save whenever you wantĒ system, which sorta made you nearly invincible, (Disabled on Hard Mode, though.) and the rest of the seriesí ďgently caress youĒ system.




You only get two Map Save slots across all your files, though, which is kinda weird, since you can have 3.




With some backup from Gordin, Bordís actually able to down his Pirate foe, though.





Well, letís see how this turns out.











Hmm.





Oh, thatís handy.

I wonít be showing when I do this in the future, donít worry, I just wanted to show what the system looks like.





Maybe I DONíT want Bord there.





This seems better.




This seems even more better.





There. More fortified across the board.






And everyoneís looking quite a bit more alive. They shot over Jagen, though, so he did nothing. Poor Jagen.





Címere, Castor.





: Princess Caeda? Oh...Iím sorry, but me motherís sick, and the medicine donít buy itself, seeÖ


Castor is meant to be a con artist, but he really, really sucks at it. Again, something not actually mentioned in game. NES cartridge dialogue limits brought to a new era.


: So you agreed to fight for the pirates in exchange for coinÖAll right then. If itís gold you need, take mine. Here, this is all I have. Take it, and go to your motherís side.

: But PrincessÖI betrayed you! ÖAch, Iíve been a fool! Forgive me, Princess. Let me fight for you now. Me life is yours.

Heís bad at this.




Or maybe he decided to join after he watched Caeda nonchalantly Javelin a manís guts out. Either solution is possible.




Itís a very Caeda level up.




So, Castor (dented due to eating an Abel Javelin) is a bow unit who is way better than Gordin. His HP sucks, but he has pretty solid growths in some key stats, like a nice 20% in Strength, equal to Cain. A lot of people like to reclass him because bow locked units are meh, and it helps to cover some of his weaknesses (Like that ugly 0% HP growth.)


Also, did you notice the yellow Marth? Sharp eyes.




Wrys you canít even use Skill, you silly goose.





With the threat of Bord dying no longer on the table, it doesnít take much to mop up the rest of these guys.





Fourth verse, itís the last verse. Ogma and Jagen are beefy enough to survive hits from the pirates while Marth chats with our new ally.





: Of course. Caeda told me about you.


: You know, sheís always been very kind to me, sire, even before I left Talys. And look how Iíve repaid herÖ


: Castor, you can still show her your heart is true. Let the battles to come be what defines you!





Well, that worked out.




Cord went Axe Shopping and got a few backups for weapons we already have.





Thereís also a village up here. Sorry I didnít get that in the shots earlier. This one is in no danger, though, because there arenít any Thieves in the enemy ranks.





: Sheís gone up into the Ghoulís Teeth to tend to the sick there. We warned her, I swear we didÖ Lena is our angel. If something befell her, I- No, I wonít think of it. Take this gold: weíve 5000 pieces. Just promise youíll use it to bring her home to us unharmed.





This is nice, but Iím more excited to meet Sister Lena. Sheís good at her job!




Just like with Gazzak, Gomer isnít someone you want to attack on your turn. Let him hit you so you donít get doubled up by a hit and a counter. Also, I know he has a low hit rate, but never, ever trust the hit rates.





...I want to recruit Gomer, can we please recruit Gomer? Iíd take Shanty Pete.




Cain flees upon the invocation of the mighty Shanty Pete.




So, the best way to do this is just to rotate your units in and out to be healed by Wrys or the fort, letting one take a hit from Gomer and counter each turn, until heís low enough to kill.





Again, not attacking on my turn, but Caedaís a really good bet for most early bosses.





This goes on for a while. Iíll spare you.




Cain landing a crit does wonders to weaken him, though.





Iím getting increasingly worried about the home teamís stats here.


regardless.





A sneaky Wrys level before the end.





Beware using Steel Weapons because of their weight! Iím really glad they dropped that system after this game.




Abel gets the honor of the final blow, once again.







Thatís more like it.




Also good! Why did Gomer have this?

...Maybe this was Shanty Peteís sword.








Hereís another ending conversation where Marth just stares at someone. I think itís justified in this case, though, because this guyís eyebrows fuse to become his mustache.

: Now, as I hear it, you plan to march on to AurelisÖThatíll take you right up through the Ghoulís Teeth. With all due respect, sire, youíre taking a great risk crossiní those mountains, thatís Soothsire territory. The Soothsires are fearsome bandits, always raidiní the villages and harryiní what travelers dare pass by.




: How did you pronounce that?

: Nabarl.

: Just checking.

: If you go up there, keep your wits about you- or you wonít come back down.





Next time the game outdoes me in the pun department.

Have a Cipher Ogma.



I like his...forearm band?

...Also, because it must be seen, and itís on the Fire Emblem Wiki, Anime Ogma.



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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Although Shanty Pete was a legendary pirate, modern viewers know him best for his generosity.

Shanty Pete's orphanage was his legacy, an institution so well run it survived for over two thousand years. It's one of the most popular income tax write-offs for Annas everywhere.

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