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King Doom posted:Dunno if it's true or not, but (assuming I'm remembering the right bit) if/when you control the Black Whirlwind, ignore the plot and keep killing stuff. Every 20 or so enemies something is supposed to happen. Up to 100 kills I believe.
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Sep 17, 2017 20:51
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I was only able to get 34 or so enemies to spawn, despite going back and forth trying to find more guys to kill. But we're getting slightly ahead of ourselves.
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Sep 17, 2017 20:53
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Oh neat! We get to tag off into more of our party members?
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Sep 17, 2017 21:06
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And now the game turns into Dynasty Warriors? Sure, why not? I love how apparently each collection of those ritual pages are their own item, instead of there being 5 individual pages with stacking. The game has to tell you that you've "lost" the previous stack every time you pick up a new page. Can you get them "out of order"? I notice Silk Fox has a tiny (and extremely empty) Focus bar. Do ally characters under your control not get Focus? Is that a Spirit Monk exclusive ability?
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Sep 17, 2017 21:19
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Commander Keene posted:I love how apparently each collection of those ritual pages are their own item, instead of there being 5 individual pages with stacking. The game has to tell you that you've "lost" the previous stack every time you pick up a new page. Can you get them "out of order"? quote:I notice Silk Fox has a tiny (and extremely empty) Focus bar. Do ally characters under your control not get Focus? Is that a Spirit Monk exclusive ability?
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Sep 17, 2017 21:36
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Shinji117 posted:Up to 100 kills I believe. Definitely true. Keep dodging around, some of them spawn in odd places, get stuck and don't move toward you. You need to hunt them all down. 
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Sep 17, 2017 22:55
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Episode 40: Released ------ Last time, we reunited with the rest of the party and found out the entire Imperial Army was on their way to Dirge. We can't exactly fight hundreds of golems and Lotus Assassins, so instead we are going to cut off their path by blowing up the only bridge leading to the temple. Kang has volunteered for that particular mission, with Silk Fox and Dawn Star making sure he doesn't get killed while he sets the explosive charges.  At the end of the previous update, we took control of Silk Fox. Whenever you play as one of the other party members, they get their own status screen as we can see here. Quest logs, too.  While we can't access the style menu as Silk Fox, we can at least see her sword is known as the Captain's Blade. Speaking of weapons, there apparently is powerful gear hidden around Dirge, so we should check that out before we proceed to the main task.   Here's Silk Fox's log of active quests. Apparently, party members also have their own completed quests, but I didn't think to look at those when I was recording. We can see Silk Fox still doesn't think much of Dawn Star, who turned out to be her cousin (and, as Emperor Sun Li's daughter, technically higher up in the line of succession, not that Li would care of such things).   One of the hidden weapons was said to be close by and found before the bridge, so there's really only one spot they could've hidden it -- behind one of the Dirge fountains (the one where we fought the betrayers). Blade of the Broken Bough is a weapon upgrade for Silk Fox, and... well, that's about it, really. If we were playing as Dawn Star here, she'd be the one getting the weapon.  With the new sword (it's a single blade, even though the icon suggests otherwise) in hand, we can get on with the job and go blow up this bridge.   Here they come! Hold them off! I only need a minute! Cute. Let's do this. A minute doesn't seem too bad.  Oh, and now we're in a side-scrolling beat 'em up for some reason.  Well, it's not really scrolling because the bridge consists of different segments and there's a quick fade to black when we cross between them, but close enough.  All we have to do here is make sure the soldiers don't get to Kang. They die very quickly and easily, so as far as escort/protection missions go this is quite manageable. The soldiers spawn in from the right side of the bridge, so standing at the end there and waving our sword around like a moron is an efficient tactic.  Well, at least until one guy decides to spawn in behind us. He literally just popped up in the middle of the bridge and tried to beeline for Kang, but we stopped him before he could do much.  That bit of silliness notwithstanding, protecting Kang wasn't difficult at all.  Kang, you had one job. You're a minor deity and everything, get it together!  Surely you didn't expect this section to be over so quickly. Now we've got Lotus Assassins coming in, and they're a bit more dangerous than the soldiers.  Someone managed to get to Kang at one point, but we've got it all under control.    Silk Fox and Dawn Star don't appear in this cutscene.  Of course, they're perfectly fine. That siege golem isn't too thrilled about what just happened. And yeah, as Kang says, the flyers can still get to us, but at least they won't be accompanied by several hundred golems and a bunch of other poo poo.  Goddammit, Silk Fox.   High praise from a farm girl. At Your Highness' service. We should get back to the temple. Lead on, I'll be right behind you.I guess they're getting along? Sort of?  With the bridge destroyed, we can head back to the inner courtyard and go see how many enemies made it.    Just shut up, and get ready! A couple of Lotus Assassins won't be a match for the Black Whirlwind, that's for sure.    Well, that just might.  It's "just" a jade golem, though. I'm sure Whirlwind would rather fight one of the siege golems, which are even bigger, but I suppose they are stranded on the side of the mountain now.  Whirlwind seems to approve regardless.  This is not the first time we've played as the Black Whirlwind, but there was something I didn't look at when we took control of him for one of the arena fights.  Whirlwind's quest log reads much as you'd expect. The best part here is the Daily Reminder, which is a bit long so I'll just put it in quotes: Daily Reminder posted:Since I keep forgeting (sic) where I put everything the night before, I'm writing this checklist to myself... to help get me through mornings. That's just excellent life advice in general.  Whirlwind's segment actually has a kill counter! You can also pick up bottles thrown by Hou (that's what the glowy orb to the right is) to replenish your health and chi.  This time, the enemies aren't immune to friendly fire, so when the golem swings its axe there's a good chance one of the Lotus Assassins gets murdered.  Puny jade golems are no match for the Black Whirlwind.   More is good! Let them come!drat right.  We're safer if I destroy the enemies they send. I prefer an active defense. Whirlwind's got the right idea, so let's go find some more idiots to kill. There's a weapon upgrade for Whirlwind to the right, but I don't find it until later.  Heading towards the camp, we run into more Lotus Assassins who fare about as well as their friends in the courtyard.  Every 20 kills, you're informed of how good you are at murdering men. Unfortunately, since we killed the golem already, the maximum number of Assassins we can kill is 34.  If you ignore the golem and just hack away at the little guys, you get to slaughter a hundred of them before the game finally decides it's had enough of your poo poo and tells you to "just kill the golem already".   However, as the golem is gone, this is all we get. How sad.  Of course I find the weapon when everybody's already dead.  Time to head back to the temple, I suppose. When we make our way back towards the temple, we hear a bell ring for some reason.   You just keep the Lotus Assassins busy here. I will go to the temple. I won't stop until they are ankle deep in blood! Head first! It's nice to see someone who enjoys their job this much.   Eh? I don't think that was in the plan.    I... was approached... once or twice. The Lotus Assassins offered much, even the chance of returning my daughter. But, I assure you, I did not plan to betray you. You showed me that the world... my life... is not as pointless as I once thought. My daughter is long dead. Their offer only shows how desperate you have made them.  This is a chance to isolate the leader of the troops! Death's Hand thinks that he and a group of Assassins will enter the temple unopposed, but I have a surprise. I set traps... remember how I asked Kang for some of his explosive casks? The Assassins will be destroyed, and Death's Hand will be yours alone.Right, so, despite seeming a bit dodgy for a moment there (especially combined with his previous disappearances), Sky remains loyal to us and wants to help us take down Death's Hand. This was not the case until quite late in the game's development -- before his character was rewritten into the rogue with a heart of gold we see in the final game, Sky was much more tormented by the loss of his family and actually was supposed to betray us at this point unless he was turned to Open Palm or romanced. The original plan for the character was revealed in a BioWare forums thread by Chris Priestly, one of the designers of Jade Empire (I found these quotes on the wiki, the original forum thread from 2005 has long since disappeared into the ether... along with the whole BioWare forums, now that I think of it): Chris Priestly posted:"Sky was originally (up until about 9 months before shipping) designed to be a Closed Fist NPC all through the game. He was suave and sexy and all, but was really quite rotten at the core due to the death of his daughter and his lust for revenge.  Explosions aren't going to work on Death's Hand, so fisticuffs it shall be.  Thank you for this opportunity, by the way. I could never face Death's Hand myself, but I want to make him pay for thinking I would be so weak. Use my daughter against me, will he? Make him hurt. Guess again, you slab of rot.   The Lotus Assassins accompanying Death's Hand have been taken care of, just as planned.  And now we'll be alone with Death's Hand. Wonderful.  Rrrgh! You have a better grip on your fellows than my master thought. The plight of a dead child is difficult motivation to resist.  The will of the master guides me. The strength of the dragon empowers me. I cannot be defeated. I must obey.   VIDEO: Boss: Death's Hand  As you might expect, Death's Hand is a tough opponent and easily the single most dangerous enemy we've faced in combat. Arguably, he might even be the toughest fight in the whole game, because his damage output is absolutely ridiculous and he attacks incredibly quickly. We absolutely don't want to get hit by that jumping slash.  Obviously, harmonic combos won't work on him since he's a boss enemy and all. Getting a few good hits in while he's petrified will still be nice.   See what happened to our health bar? That was one combo. One three-hit combo, and our health just melts.  The Eye of the Dragon may have saved our rear end here.  Okay, time to bring out the big guns, by which we mean the good old Storm Dragon combo. The last thing we want is giving Death's Hand an opportunity to hit us.   You don't want to get too far from him when he's low on health, because he'll heal himself and he'll do that really fast. There goes all that progress we made in the fight, and now we're at a disadvantage because we're rather low on chi.  Death's Hand remains more than happy to almost kill us with his combos, and we don't have that much resources left.  And there goes the last of our chi. Great. Time to whip out Spirit Thief once more, otherwise we'll be hosed.  That's better. I spent quite a bit of time using Spirit Thief, which was cut from the video because it would've been boring to watch. Focus mode helps us a bit, although it's still in your best interest to be extremely careful around Death's Hand.   gently caress this guy.  Oh hey, it's Sun Li. Nice of him to join us.  Looks like he couldn't quite make it in person, though.   Do you pretend to have insight into my character, some great truth from beyond the pale that will reform me? I am no villain. There is no malice in my actions. I had no choice. My brother had no restraint. A world under his heel would be chaotic and violent. I will bring order. I will ensure that everyone is safe within their roles.  I will not hear this. Your tongue profanes a place in my heart where no one is permitted.  You force my hand. I must picture her, unblinded by strategy or hate, and consider what it would mean if she truly were my child. I must answer, it does not matter.I don't think anyone expected anything different.  If I had the emotions you think I should, I would have defended her or died at her side. But her death had no real meaning to me, so neither does her life. I am forced to confess that my first feeling was not sorrow at her loss, but anger at my brother for destroying my possessions in so petty a manner. In the end, it changes nothing. I intend to make the Empire a better place. As a god, it will be a simple matter.To the Glorious Strategist, people are simply tools he can use and throw away as necessary. We knew that perfectly well already.   Speaking of tools, looks like Death's Hand isn't done yet. He probably won't be, as long as he remains bound to Sun Li's will.  Of course, we can also perform the Ritual of Binding, and we don't even need the amulet to do so.  Do you intend to rescue Death's Hand? Perhaps you think you can appeal to *his* conscience, to the remnants of Kin that swim in that helmet.Now that he mentions it... yes, that might be worth a try.  Will you? Even if you could, I believe you would find it difficult to release so valuable a tool. Come, then, pit your will against mine. Take him if you can.     Time to see whose will is stronger.  And we're going to do it by dueling Death's Hand as the spirit of Prince Kin! Not gonna lie, this is kind of awesome. Most of the chapter is. VIDEO: Boss: Death's Hand vs. Prince Kin    Naturally, Prince Kin also has his own status screen and quest log.  For some reason, it took me until I was grabbing the screenshots to realize that the Demon Sword we found as Wu is the exact same blade Prince Kin and Death's Hand wield in battle. Well, I might have realized when I was recording, but that was a while ago. Also, I completely forgot about this, but Prince Kin's title in life was "The Hand of Heaven".  This is a really cool fight, with lightning strikes and all kinds of neat effects enhancing the atmosphere. Death's Hand hasn't changed his approach since the previous fight, but then again he doesn't really need to because that worked quite well for him. Prince Kin is not as strong as Wu, so being cautious is even more important than it was before.  I got a bit greedy here and could easily have paid the price for my hubris. Fortunately, this was the first time Death's Hand hit us, so we have plenty of chi for healing.     Prince Kin has emerged victorious over Death's Hand, but what does that mean in practice? Is he just going to be Prince Kin now, and if so, could he help us fight Sun Li?  Take this corpse. See if you can throw away such a useful tool. I will face you at the height of my power, in the heart of *my* Empire. Your master awaits you, child. So, apparently, Sun Kin would in fact be dead if it wasn't for the binding. I thought the implication was that he was bound to the armor while still alive, but I guess not. In any case, we have a choice to make. Do we grant Prince Kin's wish and release him from his torment, or should we bind him and make him atone for the horrible things he has done?  There's really only one answer here. We will let him have his rest. If you choose to bind Death's Hand to yourself, he becomes a party member for the rest of the game, albeit one who isn't particularly popular among the rest of the crew. I have bound him on an Open Palm playthrough before, and while other party members complained a bit they didn't turn on me or anything like that. My understanding is that if you're Closed Fist, you actually have to bind several of your followers at this point.  Thank you, Spirit Monk, for letting me rest.  And with that, Death's Hand is finally gone and the spirit of Sun Kin has been freed.   Meanwhile, our friends in the courtyard don't seem to be doing so well.  I don't know why this one golem is giving them so much trouble. The Black Whirlwind easily disposed of one earlier, and surely the whole party should be able to defeat this guy even easier. I guess his powers are dramatically amplified in cutscene land.  I do like Silk Fox trying to protect Wild Flower.  Uh, Whirlwind? You maybe want to hit this thing with your axes or... No? Anyone?    Silk Fox prepares for the fatal blow, but it never comes.   Death's Hand's, uh, death means the golems are no longer linked to him, and without anyone to control them, they immediately shut down.  And apparently fall apart, for good measure.  Our reward for freeing Prince Kin is the Way of the Open Palm gem, which adds +10 to Intuition and +5 to Spirit at the cost of a -5 hit to Body. We have precisely zero use for Intuition at this point, there aren't even any more Intuition checks left if I recall correctly, and the -5 Body hit just isn't worth it.   Guys, we really need to talk about your shameful performance in that last cutscene. Seriously, what the poo poo was that?  The day already drags like an overloaded ox. Our enemies should be more efficient. I do not shy from meaningful combat, but eliminating your boredom is not a worthwhile cause to fight for. If there's no wine, there should be fighting. That's the way of things for a warrior.More like the way of things for a violent drunk, but never mind.    Emperor Sun Li waits for us, growing in power. He is draining the Water Dragon far faster than Sun Hai ever managed. Of course we're going to talk to everybody before we head out.  I will ferry whom I can for an initial assault. Give me a few moments. We will leave at your command... when my work is done. So many changes. The Jade Empire is not the place I once thought it was. You didn't say how Master Li reacted to the news that I am his daughter, but your silence on the subject says much by itself. He didn't believe you.  What Master Li has done is unforgivable. We have to set things right, and undo the evil he has put in motion.  I do not envy you, but I will be with you, my friend. We will make sure the Empire does not fall to the desires of a corrupted few. Ready yourself. We will be leaving soon. I know everything will be fine. You will see to it. Your master is a formidable opponent. We cannot leave the Empire in his hands. Some of these decisions have been hard to make. I will help you carry that weight, but I'm not sure how much use I can be. I will stand by you. Once the corruption is excised, the Jade Empire will be a blank slate, my friend. Ready yourself. We will be leaving soon. I will be ready. Rely on it.As you probably noticed, everybody has the same conversation options at this point. Well, Silk Fox has one more because we romanced her.  The sins of my family must be dealt with. Only then can the Empire regain the glory it has lost. I hope there is time for us in all of this. I will make certain of it. You and I are owed that reward. I have made some difficult decisions to get here.Have we, though? Most if not all of the decisions have been pretty straightforward, it's not like this is The Witcher. I guess it's better than "EVERYONE SHALL FEEL MY WRATH " The power that has been unleashed cannot be handled carelessly. The fate of the Empire is at stake. You and I will make things right. Be ready. I will signal when we leave. I will be ready. Don't worry.  Well, okay, I guess I lied. Only some of the party members have the same dialog options here.   And I'll never forget it. No matter what. If things here... if they turn out well, I hope. someday, when I'm older... we could meet and... be friends again. I know that to stand by you. it won't be me, it'll be the Guardian, but my hopes go with him.I thought we were already friends.  This place is old... so old. There are voices in the stones... each one trying to command the others, but none of them listen. It's like they can't listen. They just... can't. Their own voices is all they're left with. So long, only hearing the sound of your own voice... Who are they? I don't know... they never say. They just shout. Here they are overwhelmed by the power the Emperor stole. Only whispers of their spirits remain, but Wild Flower is sensitive to such things. It doesn't. There's nothing to be done except restore the shepherd that would guide them to rebirth. What do you think about what has happened here, Chai Ka? You lead as you must. I will serve the will of the heavens and follow in your steps. Do you have any wisdom to share about the coming fight, Chai Ka? I do not. You have suffered enough interference from my kind and many others. You would be better served listening to the wisdom of the child within: Do what you must, but be happy. Be ready. We will be leaving soon. The Guardian says he'll be at your side when you need him. I look forward to the day when we can return to our simpler lives, although I doubt that will be easy for everyone. Oh, it will be easy for me. I just cock an ear to the wind and listen. Eventually the shouts of my wife will make their way to me. I hope everyone has so clear a path... and a more peaceful arrival.  I always have my fists, so I'm always ready. If I lose those, I'll have bigger problems than missing a fight. Actually, better safe than sorry. Kang! Make me a wine bowl I can hold with stumps! Yours or someone else's?  There we go, looks like everyone is ready to finish the fight. Now, all we need to do is talk to Kang and board the Dragonfly once more.  Just make sure you are done talking to everyone. I lost the interior baffling, so you won't be able to hear a thing once we are in the air. I wanted to speak with you. Oh no. I tend to confuse things. Yes, I know I do. This is too important for my mutterings. Er, besides, the decisions that are coming... they are beyond me. You are deciding the fate of an empire. My mistakes result in the occasional crater. How big a hole might you be digging, hmm? I'm ready to go. Call everyone to the flyer. Oh, I think they know you are ready. Every eye is on you, across the whole Empire, I think. We'll have to see if you are worthy of that gaze, hmm? All right, everyone in!  Next time, we take the fight to the Glorious Strategist in the final update of this LP. It's been quite a ride and I already have plans for my next LP thread (Persona 2 is more of a side project), but it's not over just yet!  ------ DMorbid fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 20:49
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So Sky almost actually had... well, not a personality, but some kind of relevance to anything or reason to exist? Wow.
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Sep 19, 2017 01:56
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Doc Morbid posted:Right, so, despite seeming a bit dodgy for a moment there (especially combined with his previous disappearances), Sky remains loyal to us and wants to help us take down Death's Hand. This was not the case until quite late in the game's development -- before his character was rewritten into the rogue with a heart of gold we see in the final game, Sky was much more tormented by the loss of his family and actually was supposed to betray us at this point unless he was turned to Open Palm or romanced. Huh. Did not know that. So, he would've been like Bishop from NWN2? Or a bit like Canderous (except that Canderous was awesome and loyal)? Would that have improved him, I wonder. To be honest, I didn't like the companions in Jade Empire. I mean, I sort-of liked them okay because they're well-acted and have interesting stories to tell, but since they're so hopeless in combat, I'd just cart around Dawn Star for her Chi powers. Yeah, gameplay and fluff separation are difficult for me. Ah, but Sun Li's declaration here? Definitely the slippery slope. I mean, he was an rear end in a top hat for killing us, obviously, but not acknowledging his daughter (or thinking of her as a tool)? Totally awful.
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Sep 19, 2017 02:49
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painedforever posted:Ah, but Sun Li's declaration here? Definitely the slippery slope. I mean, he was an rear end in a top hat for killing us, obviously, but not acknowledging his daughter (or thinking of her as a tool)? Totally awful. I kind of like the subversion of the usual "Find out some deep secret that causes the bad guy to repent at the last moment" cliche.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:20
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I know, right? The bastard clearly hasn't read the script! He's supposed to be redeemed! Why won't he allow himself to be redeemed?
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Sep 19, 2017 03:29
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Ah, that's how we're going to do it. He didn't come himself.
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Sep 19, 2017 04:08
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And now I'm reminded of the trope I've been sick of in bioware/black isle/obsidian writing: Your potential love interests being snippy and nasty to each other.
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Sep 19, 2017 04:21
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painedforever posted:So, he would've been like Bishop from NWN2?
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Sep 19, 2017 09:27
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Doc Morbid posted:Yes... err... how shall we put this? "Good news, you're actually not an orphan!" Yet.
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Sep 19, 2017 13:36
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quote:Right, so, despite seeming a bit dodgy for a moment there (especially combined with his previous disappearances), Sky remains loyal to us and wants to help us take down Death's Hand. This was not the case until quite late in the game's development -- before his character was rewritten into the rogue with a heart of gold we see in the final game, Sky was much more tormented by the loss of his family and actually was supposed to betray us at this point unless he was turned to Open Palm or romanced. In the XBOX version, there's still voice files called in the game that reference Sky's execution. It comes up if you bind Death's Hand. Silk Fox has to be Silk Fox. She'll mentioned Death's Hand deserves his fate "Just as Sky deserved his." The text makes no mention of Sky, but the voice does.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:38
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Stroth posted:I kind of like the subversion of the usual "Find out some deep secret that causes the bad guy to repent at the last moment" cliche. painedforever posted:I know, right? The bastard clearly hasn't read the script! He's supposed to be redeemed! Why won't he allow himself to be redeemed? He's being honest for maybe the first time all game. "Would I have done anything different if I knew my kid was still alive? Hmmm...Nope. All I really wanted was to rule the empire. gently caress you, got mine" I mean the guy was part of the attack on a temple of monks so he could get his brother to usurp the power of the water dragon, an elemental creature inseparable from the forces of life and death whose purpose is to allow the cycle of death and rebirth to continue. He, along with his other brother conspire to kill the emperor at a moment of weakness and take the power for themselves. The sneak attack fails, and Li has to escape with his tail between his legs, but not before killing the last adult Monk and kidnapping the last surviving member of the order with the idea of training them to become strong enough to kill the emperor, but with a fatal flaw in their training that he could take advantage of at their moment of triumph. In addition to that, he not only leaves his brother for dead to escape, but after learning of his horrible fate of bodyguard for eternity without rest, he uses his newly obtained magical power to bend him to his will. He has attempted to kill, successfully killed via proxy and promised eternal torture for his own brothers. Why would he give a poo poo about a baby, even his own? What I'm saying is that it's kind of hard to have a redemption for a guy like that and it would be really disappointing if it were possible to do it in game.
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Sep 19, 2017 17:16
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Considering how hard he foreshadows in the tutorial I think he was getting pretty sick of wise old master bit. Being able to say he doesn't actually give a poo poo must be so liberating.
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Sep 20, 2017 04:49
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Episode 41: The Great Wheel ------  Welcome to the final chapter of Jade Empire and the final update of this LP. Last time, we dueled Death's Hand in the temple of Dirge and defeated him, freeing the spirit of Sun Kin and ending the Imperial assault on Dirge. Now, all that's left to do is face Sun Li and put things right once and for all.   The cutscene for our arrival at the palace hasn't changed since Chapter 4, and we're able to land the Dragonfly in the exact same spot as well.  I doubt this visit will be any less violent than the last.You'd think someone might seal this particular entrance and make things a bit harder for us, but apparently no one bothered.   Well, the last visit was quite easy, at least until we got killed by Sun Li.  A startling revelation from Kang.Hey, someone's got to get us out of here in case things go... poorly.  The road will be divided. There is a powerful presence stirring, and her will must be obeyed.  Trust her voice. We need a path through Master Li's corruption. Trust what you see. Voices can come from anywhere. Whatever we are doing, we have to do it now! I'm sure Sun Li still has some surprises up his sleeve, especially now that he's got the power of the Water Dragon. The Water Dragon said we need to destroy her physical body, which is supposed to both weaken Li and allow the Water Dragon's spirit to be reborn.  It probably is, to be honest, but we'll deal with that when the time comes.  All right. Just one last round of conversations with everyone, and we're off.  This time, our party members just have a quick line or two so this won't take long.  Of course, we are taking Dawn Star with us for the showdown with Sun Li. After what Li said at Dirge, it's doubtful that Dawn Star can appeal to him as his daughter, but it probably won't hurt to give that a shot.   The Black Whirlwind still has his priorities sorted out.   The option to go to Lord Lao's furnace is still there, so if for some reason you haven't completed Kang's personal quest it seems you still have the opportunity to do so. I don't know why you wouldn't have finished the quest by now, but there it is.  You know, being here with you, I almost wish I was home with my wife instead. Almost. Now then, let's get going. We're just going to proceed as we did the last time we were here, cutting down any Lotus Assassins and other jerks Li might send our way.  Looks like the Emperor's already arranged a nice welcoming committee for us. Hi there, fellas.  Yes, we cut off the heads of two Assassins with a single swing of the Demon Sword.  Death's Hand (or Prince Kin, I guess) would be proud we're using his sword so effectively.  One more harmonic combo for the road, and we've got an open path to the elevator.   You have come. Destiny set this moment in motion, but from here, your choices are your own to make. Your Master awaits you, but he is not yet aware. You have time to alter things to your favor. You have time to set us all on the path to rebirth.Our Master is not yet aware of what? That we just kicked down the door to his place and are on our way to him? Or that we're going to destroy the Water Dragon's body?  Apparently, they're keeping the body somewhere down below, so it seems we'll be taking the elevator down instead of up this time around.  If he's suggesting we should all get extremely drunk and take off our clothes, that can wait until we're done here.  Oh, right. That makes some sense, I suppose.  I always wander aimlessly, and I always find my way. Besides, we've been here before. Yeah, that should work nicely.  It is not a task I wanted, but we have no choice. And so, we head down. We don't know what it is the Water Dragon wants us to see, exactly (her body, presumably, since we need to destroy it and all), but we're about to find out.   It was gutted to allow the flow, to guide the water that pours from a crime against the heavens and the order of all things. Such disrespect. This was done after Master Li ran from the Emperor, but he must have known it would be needed. What hope is there for the future when the past is cast so roughly aside?  He and the Glorious Strategist focused on me, the Water Dragon. I symbolized the fading they wanted to avoid, and the regrowth they desperately needed. I became the answer to everything. Press further, and you will see the source of the lush new Empire under the Brothers Sun. You must see it with your own eyes to comprehend what they have done. We can probably assume we're not going to see anything pleasant in there. VIDEO: The Source     The very first thing the Water Dragon said to us in this game was that she was "cut open". Turns out that wasn't simply a figure of speech from a spirit that has a tendency to talk in riddles.    Fight them! Show them that such things will not go unpunished! "Them" in this case means a couple of Lotus Elites who were guarding the Water Dragon's body.  Tempest spam    That'll do it for those idiots.  It is an agony that you cannot fathom. To have fallen so far into the hands of men. Rebirth is impossible while this continues.  The rest of the party have arrived, and they can't believe what they're seeing.  Forgive us, Great Dragon. Our mortal kin are ignorant, foolish, unkind. These crimes will not go unanswered. I have never seen such a crime against the proper order of things. Every freedom I cherish is violated by this. It is... the saddest violation of a gentle creature. When the makers fall... what then? Your Master Li must be stopped. The Empire must find balance without the flow of heart-water he has unleashed.  It was never meant to flow free. It is not infinite. The Jade Empire is green, but somewhere another iand goes thirsty. All things are linked. Their concerns were for the Empire alone. Nothing else mattered.  I cannot be healed. My body has been cut open, my heart removed. I should rejoin the Great Wheel, but I am defiled and cannot rest. Rebirth can only come when my essence is free. To defeat your Master, you must stop the power he draws from me. Soon he will be too strong, even for you.  Your Master does not have to be so cautious. The amulet is not a source of power, but it *is* a focus. He partakes of energy that mortals were never meant to hold. He laps at it greedily, expecting your return. You must destroy the source of that power. You must destroy my body. When he falls, all that is mine will then rejoin my spirit. Rebirth. Here we have the big choice that determines which ending we're going to get. Obviously, for us, doing as the Water Dragon says and ending her suffering is the right thing, but if we were an evil fucker we could assume control of the Water Dragon's power ourselves. You would do this by tainting the source with human blood, as was done at Dirge, and you'd end up as the new God-Emperor of the Jade Empire. Now, one interesting detail I kind of enjoy about the game's ending is that even a Closed Fist character doesn't need to pick the monstrously evil option. If you choose to kill the Water Dragon as she asks you to, doing so will not cause an alignment shift to Open Palm, and this is reflected in the ending where you kind of end up as more of a Renegade Shepard figure than the super evil dick you'd be in the "proper" Closed Fist ending. Speaking of Closed Fist, there isn't really that much justification for a character following that philosophy (at least as it was nominally supposed to be, as opposed to STUPID EVIL) to taint the Water Dragon. We all know that if these crimes against the natural order keep on going, the Jade Empire will eventually die because the underworld remains shut. Sure, you can take the Water Dragon's power and rule the Empire, and that's all cool in the short term, but what's the point when that Empire is doomed? Congratulations, now you're a petty tyrant ruling over a dying land. Wouldn't a Closed Fist protagonist want the Empire to get stronger instead?  A good step toward rectifying this desecration. There is no other reasonable response to such an abomination.As you probably guessed, this would be where you start killing your Open Palm-aligned party members if you choose to taint the Water Dragon. Obviously, that is not what we are doing, so let's see how things turn out for us.  The Great Wheel must turn. VIDEO: Death of the Water Dragon    That contraption up there on the right is where the blood would go if we had decided to taint the Water Dragon.  But we're not doing that. Instead, Wu picks up a staff that was presumably left behind by one of the Lotus Elites...   ...and uses it to jam the machinery controlling this whole setup.      Finally, the Water Dragon can be reborn.    Meanwhile, Emperor Sun Li realizes something is wrong.  No longer able to tap into the Water Dragon's power and mortal once more, the Emperor screams at the heavens.  That's right. We're going to finish this.   The reward for freeing the Water Dragon is The Open Palm, a very high-quality gem. Obviously, the other choice would give you The Closed Fist, which adds +10 to Body and +5 to Spirit. There is actually another great essence gem down here, called the Scintillating Gem of Power (+5 to Body, Spirit and Mind), but somehow I completely missed it on this playthrough. The gem is supposed to be found in a headstone somewhere in this tomb, but for some reason I overlooked that. It's not really a big deal since it'd just be a +1 bonus over the Brilliant Gem of Balance we've got equipped, but would've been nice to have nonetheless. Oh well.  Here's our character record for one last time. We're most likely going to finish at level 23, it's doubtful we'll be getting enough experience to level up again before the game ends.  I will treasure this moment for as long as I live. To have a hand in such a creature's destiny... it is an honor. This was nearly overwhelming. My eyes were not meant to see such things. It was the only choice that would restore balance and order. If nothing ends, there are no more beginnings.  We have to try. I can't leave here knowing I didn't try. We will try. There is nothing else we can do. I will be here for this final confrontation, but I do not know how much help I will be.Yes, we get it. When we finally fight Li, we can't count on any of these guys to help us out.  Some more Lotus Assassins decide to enter the tomb. I'm assuming we are now on the other side of the door that officially leads to the tombs of Sun Li and Sun Kin, it's never explicitly stated that this is the case but I can't see what else could have been behind that door.     We don't get to crack any more Lotus Assassin heads, but I'm sure our guys will do a good job while we face Sun Li with Dawn Star.  Here we are, back in the throne room. Let's do this. VIDEO: The Throne Room (again) (video runs to the end of the update)  This time, the Emperor isn't sending soldiers and Lotus Assassins at us, so we can simply run up to him. The last time we were here seems so long ago.  I apologize for that indignity, but it was necessary. It was also meant to be the end of you, but you surprised me again. I should have studied your people before wiping them out.  Sure. It couldn't hurt.   Ah, once more you try to restore me. My lost family was just one more tool. If they had ever meant more than that, I would have been present when they fell. That it was *you*, Dawn Star, only reinforces this. I would have recognized you, if I had cared to. What use are heirs to a god? I'm not sure what I expected my father to be, but I remember a time when I hoped he was someone like you. Not any more.  I will undo the damage of his ignorance, force the dead to their rest, and keep the waters flowing. My Empire will be ordered, *obedient,* and neither ghosts nor gods will plague it.Oh, great, now he's monologuing. The game has done a pretty good job not turning Li into a cartoon villain after he revealed his true colors, but now it seems he's going off the deep end.  So that's why we didn't have anyone to greet us when we entered the throne room, he just wants to show off.    An elephant demon. That's nice, what else has he got?  A bull demon, apparently. Li then summons one more of each from the other side of the room.  Two elephant demons and two bull demons, then. This should be interesting.  The constructs fight just like the actual demons, which in the bulls' case means they're basically the Minion of Suffering.  We could fight these guys normally, but it would take a long time and we don't want to waste too many resources on them.  So, let's even the odds just a bit.   The Jade Golem kills these constructs in two hits if you use the strong attack. We knew that this style is powerful, but here we really see what it's capable of.  No, there really isn't. Just one old man with delusions of grandeur.   Looks like the old man isn't finished just yet, though.      Well, this might be a problem.    Physical barriers are no match for those we place in our own minds. My power has encased you in doubt, held you with the weight of your burden.   At least it looks like we're not on our own here.  Uh, what the hell is going on? Yes... well said.  Allies have no greater strength than in your own heart. I will be the conduit. I will show them the way.  The power of friendship saves the day once again. Well, we still need to get out of here somehow, I suppose.  In order to escape Li's mental prison, we must fight and defeat our doubt.   It's not quite over yet, though.    I am with you. We haven't come this far to fail now. We cannot let this stand. Not when so much is at stake. I stand with you. We will not fall just yet.  Wu the Lotus Blossom vs. Doubt, round two.  Now can we please get out of here?   Maybe nothing in the mortal realm can help us here, but how about something -- or someone -- outside the mortal realm? Zu has been with us all this time, and now he's going to try to help us as best he can.   There goes the pillar, which should hopefully mean we're free now.    That's better.   So, what next?  The loyalty you inspire is also tiresome, but I respect it. You have truly become a Spirit Monk. In another time, I would be proud of your ability.  I see now that the Water Dragon's power is the prize, not the means to victory. No matter what I expend, while you live you will resist. That is your role. It is the Celestial Bureaucracy attempting to restore balance. We must bring the fight back down to earth. Unless... you are made to see reason. Not going to happen. You can in fact take Sun Li up on his offer, and he'll tell you he's going to make sure everyone remembers you. Then he kills you again, this time for real. This is an actual ending, in which we see exactly what kind of "order" Sun Li had in mind for his Empire. (not my upload)  I expect you have corrected the flaw in your style? No matter. Beyond the basics, I also taught you... focus. Match me if you can. Here we go. This is the final battle, in which the fate of the Jade Empire will be decided. Sun Li has some very nasty tricks in this fight, one of the worst being the fact he can control your focus and use it against you, slowing you down to a crawl. Or possibly just using focus himself with the same result, I'm not entirely sure (he does have a focus bar of his own and I've been told you can get him to deplete all of it with no penalty to your focus if you hide behind the pillars, so the latter is more likely to be the case). In any event, you lose a chunk of our focus bar every time he does this, and oh boy does he ever like doing this. We can press the focus button to get out of it quicker, but this still eats up a lot of our focus. As such, weapon styles aren't going to help much in this fight (well, I suppose you can blast him with a fully upgraded Mirabelle before he can eat all your focus).  What's worse than getting slowed down? Getting slowed down and paralyzed, so you can't do anything but watch as you get your poo poo kicked in and your focus meter depleted.  Li can also drain our health and chi...  ...and spam Tempest because of course he can...   ...and worst of all, when you get his health down, he starts doing this. When you attack him, you lose a chunk of health every time you hit him, and that's a big chunk for each hit. If he activates his fire aura at the wrong time and/or you're not paying attention, you're getting hurt bad. This was the only fight in the game I actually lost a couple of times, once because I forgot he had the fire aura and once because he activated it at the worst moment.  Li's fireballs actually home in on you, although of course they're blockable.  After a couple of fights where I tried to do this legitimately and didn't have much success, I ended up going back to the old standby of Storm Dragon & Leaping Tiger because gently caress this guy. Some players cheese this fight with Jade Golem, but I didn't want to do that because that would've been even more anticlimactic.  Even if you are cheesing the fight by spamming support styles, you'll still want to be careful of his fire aura kicking in at the wrong time. He'll also try to heal if he gets a chance, so watch out for that too.  Eventually, we manage to wear him down. Li has a ton of health, as you'd expect from the final boss.  And with that, it's over.     Emperor Sun Li the Glorious Strategist -- Master Li -- is dead.    With Sun Li's death, the spirit of the Water Dragon is now free as well, and the natural order will be restored.    I'll be honest, I thought the palace was supposed to be higher up in the sky than that. Maybe the blob of pixels I thought was the palace in the Imperial City landing cutscene actually was the palace.   I'm pretty sure none of these people have any idea what's going on in the palace right now, but at least it looks spectacular.     The Water Dragon's spirit appears once more, to thank us for our service before she rejoins the Great Wheel.    I'm not sure why Wu looks so angry in this prerendered cutscene.     This is it, then. We've defeated the brothers Sun, the Jade Empire is safe and should prosper again now that the natural order has been restored. That's definitely worth a round of applause, if you ask me.  After the ending cutscene, we get these slides describing what happened to our party members. It's a shame they're just generic text slides without any cool art or narration or anything, but that's still more than we got in certain other BioWare games.  If this is your first playthrough, you also unlock the Jade Master mode which is basically New Game+.In any event, things turned out nicely for Wu and Silk Fox as they ruled the Jade Empire together and lived happily ever after.  Dawn Star returned to Two Rivers to rebuild the town, and eventually set out to parts unknown. However, this isn't really the ending slide that should be appearing here, because as you can see there is absolutely no mention of Sun Li being Dawn Star's father. This is the "didn't complete Zu's side plot" version of Dawn Star's ending, and due to a bug it's the only one you can actually get in-game if she wasn't romanced. Here's the more appropriate version: quote:The defeat of Sun Li signaled a new beginning for the Jade Empire, but it brought little personal comfort to Dawn Star. She was conflicted: the father she never knew had been her mentor all along, but had also never truly existed, his caring nature just a lie to hide darker intentions. Her search for peace of mind took her back to the simpler life of a borderland village much like Two Rivers, where she built her own school in the manner of the Master she had believed in. The schemes of Sun Li died in the palace, but the teachings of her cherished Master would persevere. At least in this, the man Dawn Star had hoped to know would live on with her.  Sky became the leader of the Guild, who we saw were already becoming a bit more legit after we killed Gao the Greater and Kai Lan the Serpent, and turned it into a benevolent organization that helped people in need. In the game's data files, you can still find an ending meant for the original version of the character, in which Sky also becomes the leader of the Guild but is far more ruthless and eventually dies alone when someone poisons his wine.  Hou is still Hou.  Wild Flower got a second chance at life, as a thank you for her service to the heavens.   Kang kept building things that flew and things that exploded, apparently mostly the latter, and found a somewhat novel way to keep up his inspiration.  I'd play a game about the Black Whirlwind hunting demons for the Celestial Bureaucracy.  Sir Roderick isn't a party member, of course (I wish he were), but he gets an ending slide anyway because we all love him.  And that's it, we're done here! Make sure to watch the credits to the end for some amusing VA outtakes. I want to thank everybody for reading the LP and posting in the thread, it's been a great time and it's been fun to read everyone's thoughts on the game. I really enjoyed playing through Jade Empire again despite its flaws, and I hope you enjoyed following the playthrough as well. I'll see you in the next LP thread, which... well, I'm not going to give anything away just yet, certainly not before I've got all the tech stuff sorted out. Anyway, I'll see you later, and thanks again for reading! ----- DMorbid fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 08:19
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Thanks for making this LP, it's been a lot of fun to follow it.  Blackwhirlwind's ending was really fitting but I've never seen that Kang's ending before, as I never bothered finishing the machine.
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Sep 20, 2017 09:11
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Great LP! I've always loved the "bloody stupid" ending.  Death's Hand gets an epilogue if you bind him, and it's actually surprisingly OK if you go open palm in the ending. The first time I played, the water dragon's monologue almost made me go "gently caress it" and taint the water, because of all the "do my bidding puny mortal worms".
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Sep 20, 2017 11:20
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Doc Morbid posted:
Cool, I finally get to see what happens past this point in the game, where my game broke and I couldn't advance any further. Thanks for completing the LP! That final sequence seemed impressively anticlimactic presentation-wise; a pretty tough fight against some guy with the music sometimes not playing, couple of quick cut scenes, credits. I guess that's mid-2000s indie RPGs for you.
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Sep 20, 2017 11:54
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Doc Morbid posted:Speaking of Closed Fist, there isn't really that much justification for a character following that philosophy (at least as it was nominally supposed to be, as opposed to STUPID EVIL) to taint the Water Dragon. We all know that if these crimes against the natural order keep on going, the Jade Empire will eventually die because the underworld remains shut. Sure, you can take the Water Dragon's power and rule the Empire, and that's all cool in the short term, but what's the point when that Empire is doomed? Congratulations, now you're a petty tyrant ruling over a dying land. Wouldn't a Closed Fist protagonist want the Empire to get stronger instead? Presumably if you had all of the water dragon's power and knew what you were doing you could shepherd the dead yourself. Unsubtley and causing them far more suffering than they should, but enough to keep the ghost population down. And if the Celestial Bureaucracy didn't want to be usurped they should have been harder to usurp. Really, this is all their fault.
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Sep 20, 2017 13:24
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The Lone Badger posted:Presumably if you had all of the water dragon's power and knew what you were doing you could shepherd the dead yourself. Unsubtley and causing them far more suffering than they should, but enough to keep the ghost population down. And if this game has taught me anything that is what Closed Fist is all about.
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Sep 20, 2017 14:10
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Oh Black Whirlwind  I love that they went 110% on making his character, and that's a perfect ending for him. I'm not sure what it says that he and HK-47 are my favorite Bioware NPCs, but drat if I wouldn't play a game with them as buddy-assassins for hire. Thanks for sharing this with us, it's been a trip and kudos to you for undertaking it!
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Sep 20, 2017 14:17
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Yeah, the CF ending makes zero amount of sense as it's presented in the story, because there is just too much of a disparity between suffering and gain. It's rare the game that will stop you before you commit to the Evil path and says, "You sure you want to do this evil thing? Cause this thing is reeeealy evil, right here..." And after the relative hamminess of something like KOTOR, I wasn't really prepared for how completely and viscerally uncomfortable the scene of binding your companions is on the CF path, I think you have to do it to everyone except Black Whirlwind and maybe Kang... it's not nice. But thanks, Doc Morbid, you took us through and in fine style. Looking forward to your next project!
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Sep 20, 2017 14:25
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I remember waiting until Li was between gimmicks and shredding him with the dual sword style, but it's been ages. I believe the Magnificent Bastard also gets a different ending if you let him keep his gun. That said, it was nice taking another trip through the game.
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Sep 20, 2017 15:49
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Thanks for doing the LP. Even having played the game myself once, I couldn't actually remember much past the halfway point, so it was fun getting to re-experience it.
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Sep 20, 2017 17:34
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resurgam40 posted:But thanks, Doc Morbid, you took us through and in fine style. Looking forward to your next project! Agreed! Nicely done LP of a game I really quite like. the truly evil CF ending is, unfortunately, completely missing the landing. Thankfully you didn't do that one, because it's impressively grim (that they let you do it at all) but thematically a total miss. Still, that aside, the whole of Jade Empire makes it pretty clear you can see the process of lessons learned from KOTOR and also see the lessons they'd learn from JE going right into Mass Effect, which I always appreciate seeing.
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Sep 20, 2017 18:53
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quote:Speaking of Closed Fist, there isn't really that much justification for a character following that philosophy (at least as it was nominally supposed to be, as opposed to STUPID EVIL) to taint the Water Dragon. We all know that if these crimes against the natural order keep on going, the Jade Empire will eventually die because the underworld remains shut. Sure, you can take the Water Dragon's power and rule the Empire, and that's all cool in the short term, but what's the point when that Empire is doomed? Congratulations, now you're a petty tyrant ruling over a dying land. Wouldn't a Closed Fist protagonist want the Empire to get stronger instead? Please recall that the Jade Empire is meant to be dead already. The Long Drought was meant to kill it so something new would come. Given the Jade Empire's been on life-support these past years, The Celestial Bureaucracy will probably still kill the Empire with the Water Dragon restored, either for it's crimes or because it 'should' be dead. Everything in it's place and all, but the land is still gonna die. Hard. They don't care about the people, only 'balance'. Although as she said, others are dying for the Empire to live now. But can you really live with the Empire's death? The game makes sure to have enough things and words in the last phase(The Water Dragon is being especially 'you mortals' lately) to give you enough reason that you might do the Bad. Like in Living Dirge you get told of several monks that received the ultimate glory-'becoming one with the Water Dragon'. I read that and I'm like 'She ATE THEM!'. Which is frankly screwed up no matter how you look at it. Maybe with this power, you can find another path. Or at least be able to talk with the Bureaucracy as part of it.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:55
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It is rather easy to go "well with this power I can fix everything, as the Celestial Bureaucracy has failed us". That might not be the message you're supposed to take away, but we never do see any ordinary troops fighting for the Empire because the Emperor fixed the drought. It's all cartoonishly evil bad guys all the way down.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:02
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Bloodly posted:Please recall that the Jade Empire is meant to be dead already. The Long Drought was meant to kill it so something new would come. Given the Jade Empire's been on life-support these past years, The Celestial Bureaucracy will probably still kill the Empire with the Water Dragon restored, either for it's crimes or because it 'should' be dead. Everything in it's place and all, but the land is still gonna die. Hard. They don't care about the people, only 'balance'. Although as she said, others are dying for the Empire to live now. But can you really live with the Empire's death? Yeah, I was wondering why there was essentially no discussion of the drought, let alone coming back with a vengeance, in the epilogue text. Not that I have a pathological opposition to happy endings or anything, but that seems like kind of a big miss.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:44
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You could also see taking over Water Dragon as new challenge to overcome, and wherever it leads. Considering that Jade Empire was supposed very least go through a serious slump, it could easily be taking on those bureaucrats.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:53
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Great LP, dude, and I mean that. In spite of having played this game three or four times (and even modded in the "unavailable" styles), I definitely learned something new. (Rated 5)
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Sep 21, 2017 03:23
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I like how Sir Roderick is a hero in his own mind and also in the end credits.
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Sep 21, 2017 05:14
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CzarChasm posted:He's being honest for maybe the first time all game. "Would I have done anything different if I knew my kid was still alive? Hmmm...Nope. All I really wanted was to rule the empire. gently caress you, got mine"
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Sep 21, 2017 11:59
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I guess if you're a weird Utilitarian robot then yeah but it sure seems like he's hosed up a lot of good people along the way. Not sure that's a particularly Open Palm thing to do but then we're coming back to the problems with the philosophies as described vs. as implemented in the game.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:30
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sebzilla posted:I guess if you're a weird Utilitarian robot then yeah but it sure seems like he's hosed up a lot of good people along the way. Not sure that's a particularly Open Palm thing to do but then we're coming back to the problems with the philosophies as described vs. as implemented in the game.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:45
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Isn't the CF justification "You're a giant fuckup, why do you still get to be a god? I can't let your incompetence contaminate the Wheel, you're fired."
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Sep 21, 2017 16:21
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Well done. Been following on the sidelines. Jade Empire was a great little underdog of a game, and you presented it well.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:33
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