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3rdEyeDeuteranopia
Sep 12, 2007



I haven't posted here in a while, but if you remember I was at Fort Hood for a long time, to include the 2009 and 2014 shootings.

Based on how Hood and many other posts of trained for emergency response, anyone with a gun is likely to get loving iced.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/21/dod-releases-plan-allow-personnel-carry-firearms-base.html

quote:

Military.com | Nov 21, 2016 | by Matthew Cox
The Pentagon recently released detailed guidance that allows U.S. military personnel to carry privately owned, concealed firearms on base, a move that the Army's service chief argued against publicly.

"Arming and the Use of Force," a Nov. 18 Defense Department directive approved by Deputy Secretary of Defense Robert Work, lays out the policy and standards that allow DoD personnel to carry firearms and employ deadly force while performing official duties.

But the lengthy document also provides detailed guidance to the services for permitting soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines and Coast Guard personnel to carry privately owned firearms on DoD property, according to the document.

Commanders, O-5 and above, "may grant permission to DoD personnel requesting to carry a privately owned firearm (concealed or open carry) on DoD property for a personal protection purpose not related to performance of an official duty or status," the document states.

Applicants must be 21 years of age or older, the age many states require an individual to be to own a firearm, according to the document. Proof of compliance may include a concealed handgun license that is valid under federal, state, local or host-nation law where the DoD property is located.

"Written permission will be valid for 90 days or as long as the DoD Component deems appropriate and will include information necessary to facilitate the carrying of the firearm on DoD property consistent with safety and security, such as the individual's name, duration of the permission to carry, type of firearm, etc.," according to the document.

Until now, DoD personnel have not been authorized to carry personal firearms on military installations, a policy that has come under scrutiny in the wake of "active-shooter" attacks at U.S. military bases resulting in the deaths of service members.

Lawmakers have questioned military leaders about the policy, arguing that allowing service members to be armed might have prevented attacks such as the July 16, 2015, shootings at two military facilities in Chattanooga, Tennessee, in which four Marines and a sailor were shot and killed. The gunman, Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, was killed by police in a gunfight.

But Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley has argued against reversing the DoD policy that prohibits service members from carrying concealed weapons on post.

Testifying at an April 14 congressional hearing, Milley cited the Nov. 5, 2009, mass shooting at Fort Hood, Texas, in which 13 people were killed and 42 others were injured. The day of the shooting, Nidal Hasan, then an Army major and psychiatrist, entered the Fort Hood deployment center carrying two pistols, jumped on a desk and shouted "Allahu Akbar!" -- Arabic for "God is great" -- then opened fire.

Milley defended the short time it took for law enforcement to secure the scene and said he is not convinced that allowing soldiers to carry privately owned weapons would have stopped Hasan.

The directive states that personnel authorized to carry privately owned firearms must "acknowledge they may be personally liable for the injuries, death, and property damage proximately caused by negligence in connection with the possession or use of privately owned firearms that are not within the scope of their federal employment."

The eligibility requirements also state that applicants should not be subject to past or pending disciplinary action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice or in any civilian criminal cases.

Personnel carrying firearms "will not be under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance that would cause drowsiness or impair their judgment while carrying a firearm," the document states.

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ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus


Good of you to keep this out of CE.

I do look forward to seaman timmy CCing a gun and popping his LPO when he tells him to do a field day.

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

What, Me Worry?


Nice to hear the military taking strides to make PT more interesting.

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013


This is gonna lead to officer only concealed carry once some young enlisted guy pops a cap in his dickhead commanders head.

Just wait.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

This is gonna lead to officer only concealed carry once some young enlisted guy pops a cap in his dickhead commanders head.

Just wait.

Again, you mean?

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013


I did, actually.

:(

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD


Your son died valiantly defending his fellow soldiers during an active shooter situation

*got blasted by another guy who was spooked because someone dropped some weights*

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug




Pillbug

Reminds me of the HR guys on Bagram who fired off their weapons in the bunker while taking cover.

Naked Bear
Apr 15, 2007

Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!


Did you guys miss the part where a person must be approved by their (battalion equiv.) commander? No, of course nobody will authorize PFC Fucknuts to carry. Time and again, people trot out this idea that concealed carry will be abused by idiots to settle petty disputes, and yet it still almost never happens.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


Naked Bear posted:

Did you guys miss the part where a person must be approved by their (battalion equiv.) commander? No, of course nobody will authorize PFC Fucknuts to carry. Time and again, people trot out this idea that concealed carry will be abused by idiots to settle petty disputes, and yet it still almost never happens.

I have TWO anecdotes about incidents like this. :lol:

Naked Bear
Apr 15, 2007

Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!


Don't get me wrong, I'm sure everybody here knows that crazy guy who did the thing that time.. it happens, yes. My point is that it's not a common occurrence, and, not to discount your own personal experiences, anecdotes are just that.

UP THE BUM NO BABY
Sep 1, 2011

by Hand Knit


Naked Bear posted:

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure everybody here knows that crazy guy who did the thing that time.. it happens, yes. My point is that it's not a common occurrence, and, not to discount your own personal experiences, anecdotes are just that.

And as you pointed out, the concealed carry requires an O-5 to sign off on it. Personal experience and completely anecdotal but I've never met anyone who could get their O-3 to sign off on storing personal weapons in the company arms room, so I highly doubt that an O-5 will allow a bunch of retard enlisted to carry on base. Plus, as soon as some rear end in a top hat does and inevitably shoots his battle buddy you just know that garrison commanders will ban concealed carry.

3rdEyeDeuteranopia
Sep 12, 2007



Naked Bear posted:

Did you guys miss the part where a person must be approved by their (battalion equiv.) commander? No, of course nobody will authorize PFC Fucknuts to carry. Time and again, people trot out this idea that concealed carry will be abused by idiots to settle petty disputes, and yet it still almost never happens.

Yeah because Battalion Commanders never make terrible character decisions anymore, and have the time to get to know all the Soldiers in the battalion.

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Do you like muskets?


LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

This is gonna lead to officer only concealed carry once some officer fucks it up.

Just wait.

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, how often does poo poo get restricted for enlisted because some NCO or officer does something stupid?

"1SG ND'd into a clearing barrel, everybody E4 and below needs to be supervised at clearing barrels."

"SFC got a DUI, E4 and below need a chaperone when driving."

"The Chief of Staff murdered a hooker on live TV during the State of the Union, E4 and below are confined to their company areas at all times."

Zeris
Apr 15, 2003

Quality posting direct from my brain to your face holes.

3rdEyeDeuteranopia posted:

Yeah because Battalion Commanders never make terrible character decisions anymore, and have the time to get to know all the Soldiers in the battalion.

Allen West Did Nothing Wrong

Naked Bear
Apr 15, 2007

Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!


3rdEyeDeuteranopia posted:

Yeah because Battalion Commanders never make terrible character decisions anymore, and have the time to get to know all the Soldiers in the battalion.
Yeah, because commanders never effectively delegate decision authority by requiring their subordinate commanders to sign off on things before ever even looking at them. There are always often a whole bunch of signatures required to make anything like this happen.

Incidentally, somebody mentioned personal weapons in arms rooms, and all that was needed in my troop was to get a hand receipt from the armorer (always E-4/E-5) for whatever poo poo you stored in there. Source: me.

Naked Bear fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 23, 2016

3rdEyeDeuteranopia
Sep 12, 2007



I would say most company commanders are absolutely terrible with the amount of responsibility they currently have too.

Naked Bear
Apr 15, 2007

Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!


I ain't gonna argue that.

Helldump Immunity
Sep 11, 2001

pretty much rollin with the dad farm these days

all nobles must hang

Mike-o
Dec 25, 2004

Now I'm in your room
And I'm in your bed




Grimey Drawer

Helldump Immunity posted:

all loving nobles must loving hang

Vasudus
May 30, 2003


I am eager to hear about how SGT Fucknuts shot off the tip of his dick with his Taurus Judge valiantly defending against PFC Schmuckatelli who had a ND in the DFAC showing off his cool Glock that he totally got permission from BN to carry in a few months when the inevitable Army-mandated firearms safety class hits.

3rdEyeDeuteranopia
Sep 12, 2007



I completely forgot about how popular cheap taurus are with junior officers and junior enlisted a lot. A lot of people bought that shotgun pistol back in 2009 after the Hassan shooting, from the same place Hassan got his guns even.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003


I know next to nothing about regular firearms, I just remembered that Taurus makes some absolutely stupid revolvers and it seemed like the most enlisted option.

3rdEyeDeuteranopia
Sep 12, 2007



And lieutenant option

CHICKEN SHOES
Oct 4, 2002


Slippery Tilde

Did he buy the guns at Super 1 Pawn or Gun's Galore down Rancier or whatever

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.

:dukedog:

My coworkers were discussing this today, and were super excited about it. Broke it to them that it needed an O5 signature once every three months and watched as they all realized that they'd still not be allowed to carry their guns all the time. I then laughed at them while explaining that I don't own any guns so I couldn't care less about their problem.

3rdEyeDeuteranopia
Sep 12, 2007



Hillary Clintons Thong posted:

Did he buy the guns at Super 1 Pawn or Gun's Galore down Rancier or whatever

Gun's Galore which is on Fort Hood Street.

CHICKEN SHOES
Oct 4, 2002


Slippery Tilde

3rdEyeDeuteranopia posted:

Gun's Galore which is on Fort Hood Street.

Ah yeah thanks. Those guys were dicks.

3rdEyeDeuteranopia
Sep 12, 2007



Well rich dicks after all the shootings.

Nostalgia4Butts
Jun 1, 2006

WHERE MY HOSE DRINKERS AT



A Bad Poster posted:

I don't own any guns so I couldn't care less about their problem.

this

Helldump Immunity
Sep 11, 2001

pretty much rollin with the dad farm these days

A Bad Poster posted:

I own guns and I still couldn't care less about their problem.

Helldump Immunity fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Nov 24, 2016

Naked Bear
Apr 15, 2007

Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!


3rdEyeDeuteranopia posted:

I completely forgot about how popular cheap taurus are with junior officers and junior enlisted a lot. A lot of people bought that shotgun pistol back in 2009 after the Hassan shooting, from the same place Hassan got his guns even.
The Judge? There was one in my unit that made its way around through an increasingly complex series of trades involving peoples' boats and trucks. A section leader in my troop started out with a lovely, leaky bass boat or something and traded it to another dude for a Judge, a bunch of other back and forth happened with that same pistol, and he ultimately wound up with a really nice boat and a truck. The thing might be a lovely pistol, but I guess it's not entirely worthless. :confused:

Like that story about the dude who traded up a paper clip to a house, but way, way more enlisted.

Naked Bear fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 24, 2016

Suicide Watch
Sep 8, 2009


Is predatory lending for guns a thing? Someone should start a shop selling desert eagles, judges, and other magnums in gold and other gaudy coatings

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



Writing my congressman now to require all payday loan and auto dealerships within 20 miles of a post quote their interest rates in logs of grizzly wintergreen

RCK-101
Feb 19, 2008

If a recruiter asks you to become a nuclear sailor.. you say no


Suicide Watch posted:

Is predatory lending for guns a thing? Someone should start a shop selling desert eagles, judges, and other magnums in gold and other gaudy coatings

Yes. because all the gun stores near me are pawnshops this is a thing ( I mean its a quality gun shop, good range good selection and a 30 dollar fee for online buying via gunbroker which is a steal if you don't want your own NFA trust)

Justin Tyme
Feb 22, 2011




Pesticide20 posted:

And as you pointed out, the concealed carry requires an O-5 to sign off on it. Personal experience and completely anecdotal but I've never met anyone who could get their O-3 to sign off on storing personal weapons in the company arms room, so I highly doubt that an O-5 will allow a bunch of retard enlisted to carry on base. Plus, as soon as some rear end in a top hat does and inevitably shoots his battle buddy you just know that garrison commanders will ban concealed carry.

What was the reason behind that? I feel like the commander being a dick about storing weapons in the arms room (which would show a lot of prudence/rear end-covering on his part, legally speaking) for no good reason would be like if the commander for some reason banned the practice of Judaism in the barracks.

That said, only idiots would store their poo poo in the arms room vs a (VERY TRUSTED!!!) friend's house off-post/gun range locker.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Suicide Watch posted:

Is predatory lending for guns a thing? Someone should start a shop selling desert eagles, judges, and other magnums in gold and other gaudy coatings
You know Desert Eagles come gold-plated from the factory, right?

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-Desert-Eagle-50-AE-24K-Gold.asp

NO MONEY DOWN E-Z FINANCING FOR E1 AND ABOVE!!

UP THE BUM NO BABY
Sep 1, 2011

by Hand Knit


Justin Tyme posted:

What was the reason behind that? I feel like the commander being a dick about storing weapons in the arms room (which would show a lot of prudence/rear end-covering on his part, legally speaking) for no good reason would be like if the commander for some reason banned the practice of Judaism in the barracks.

That said, only idiots would store their poo poo in the arms room vs a (VERY TRUSTED!!!) friend's house off-post/gun range locker.

gently caress, dude, I don't know what the reasons were, nor did I care because my gun was at my parents. If there was an actual reason beyond gently caress Joe I would be quite surprised. For reference that was while I was in first brigade at the 82nd. My understanding in Italy was you just didn't own guns over there.

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008


I honestly feel that this is just a political move to cover their backs for the next on base shooting, since no 1st Sgt is actually going to let you get anywhere near the battalion commander just so some dipshit enlisted can walk around with a pistol. Its going to be restricted to officers and SNCOs only which is honestly dope as hell because when a shootout starts at the PX all the enlisted are going to get the hell out of there while the officers start shooting at each other.

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Steezo
Jun 16, 2003
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!




Reverand maynard posted:

I honestly feel that this is just a political move to cover their backs for the next on base shooting,

Probably. Since fixing the culture that makes people like Hassan possible just isn't going to happpen. Problem children will be kicked down the road instead of fixed, fired, or tied to a tree and shot. Same reason there's a massive brain drain in "peace" time while fart huffing shitlickers who hid in training commands stick around to complain about how we can now get back to a "real" military that cares about how pretty men you aren't going to gently caress are instead of "can they do job?" Can't have "problem child" show up on paper as problem child even if they're fixed because that means there was a problem and someone isn't getting invited to the circlejerk later.

Anyone else remember how dumb pre OIF or OEF military was? When the old fuckers were the ones who'd done shield/storm?

I'll stop before this turns into a pages long rant about risk averse cowardice that isn't borderline, but actual treason that should be punished by death.

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