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I think the fake news argument at it's core is fundamentally flawed because there doesn't seem to be anyone talking about it being a problem on the left, which it absolutely is. I posted a example from a few days ago of the Guardian posting up a sotry of a guy who got radicalised into the alt right through new atheism. The first warning bells should have been how large tracts of it were very close to word for word lifts from a article published a few days before by a staff writer on the same topic, but it fit the narrative the Guardian wanted to press forwards in the fallout from the US election so they ran it without what would be obvious checks. Turned out it was written by an alt-right troll proving that the left is only too happy to run bullshit if it confirms their biases. Greenwald was among the people signal boosting the story on twitter, which seemed cynical on its face since the article attacked someone he had a public and messy feud with previously. The left either needs to do better and not let things like Rolling Stone or this happen, or accept its part of the game and stop trying to characterise it as a purely right wing phenomenon they are not guilty of. The way it is currently portrayed is ultimately a losing strategy because it leaves you open to easily provable accusations of wallowing in the same filth you protest against.
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Dec 2, 2016 09:34
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Schizotek posted:I think there's a pretty big gulf between the media reporting on someone who turned out to be lying about something that would otherwise be pretty mundane and the never ending stream of insanity that the fake news stuff is about. Like college rape is a pretty common thing, and there's not actually much fact checking a news site can do for that. Compare that with say, "Dearborne is under sharia law as MUSLIM savages rape your pure white women" poo poo that there's a whole literal loving industry built around. Not an industry around making claims or reporting garbage like that. A large well funded speaking circuit and think tanks built around that one single claim. Like even if you don't trust anyone but the dumb assholes who spawned the lie, you can GO VISIT DEARBORNE. If it was true there wasn't much fact checking you could do on a college rape story, why did Rolling Stone come out and admit their story was a failure of basic journalistic practice. http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-what-went-wrong-20150405 rolling stone posted:Rolling Stone's repudiation of the main narrative in "A Rape on Campus" is a story of journalistic failure that was avoidable. The failure encompassed reporting, editing, editorial supervision and fact-checking. The magazine set aside or rationalized as unnecessary essential practices of reporting that, if pursued, would likely have led the magazine's editors to reconsider publishing Jackie's narrative so prominently, if at all. The published story glossed over the gaps in the magazine's reporting by using pseudonyms and by failing to state where important information had come from. The reporter went looking for a story, found something she felt fit and was interesting enough and rushed to print instead of actually putting in a good level of investigation. That within days of the story being published she had contacted her editor to express her doubts the story was true should be a serious red flag to the practices of the journalist and the publication. The issue I am trying to get across is while there is tons of infowars level idiocy cropping up on facebook constantly, its very clearly idiotic and easy to be brushed off by the 'serious' right wingers as obvious clickbaity bullshit. When what is considered a reputable publication gets lost in the weeds of what they think the truth is and publishes something that from the outside was clearly a troll in the guardian case, or fails to fact check properly due to a motivation to publish a specific narative in the rolling stone case, what is supposed to be the sensible reliable voices ends up being tarnished and a viable route of attack from the right as just more liberal lies. The other issue is the fake news stuff, while probably not a dog whistle for political censorship, sure sounds awfully close when people are publishing lists of 'fake news purveyors operated by the Kremlin' which is just a list of anyone who disagrees with Hillary Clinton's circle. Running a story like that list was another black mark on the non-RWM that hurts the cause of actually presenting facts to the world at large.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:01
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DC Murderverse posted:This is disgusting generally and everyone who keeps on insisting that "pizza gate" is a thing should be kicked off the internet, but there's an extra level of surreality that comes because the name of the pizza place is "comet ping pong". such a weird name. What makes it so tempting a target is its a pretty weird place tbh. Kid friendly pizza shop by day, wild punk rock venue by night with occasional political gatherings. Anybody with half a brain knows some guy owning a shop nearby that shares his name with another dude who might have done bad things at some point in the past doesn't make a totally unrelated business a kiddy porn dungeon.
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Dec 5, 2016 05:21
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DACK FAYDEN posted:I thought the list was chronological, not sorted by influence. It lists Zero Hedge, Naked Capitalism, Truth Dig and the daily stormer as pro-russian propaganda fonts. The one thing I can say uniformly about those 4 outlets is they aren't in favour of Russia. Its essentially a dumping ground of clickbait idiocy like that guy from California who made fake news to try and discredit the right then realised there was good money in it and turned it into a business consequences be damned, Scaremongering conspiracy theorists and anyone who attacked Clinton who was notionally leftist. They don't comment on why you are on the list and offer to take you off if you bend the knee and run only news they approve of. quote:As an example, we are happy to remove from the List any outlet whose operators understand how Putin's Russia is a brutal authoritarian kleptocracy that uses "fake news" as online propaganda, and resolves to help do something about it. For example, any outlet that has used a lot of Russia Today and Sputnik News content, but resolves to stop doing so, is going to be removed from the List. It absolutely is a bludgeon to push a specific ideology.
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Dec 5, 2016 05:45
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If you want to see what a paedo elites conspiracy looks like you could look at something that may have allegedly happened like Thatcher's cabinet and their alleged activities
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Dec 6, 2016 02:10
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the black husserl posted:Not that Kristof isn't a dumb guy, but I think you're slightly misreading him here. Titus Andronicus is famously regarded as being poorly written and terribly stupid, the general consensus is that it's on the level of a grindhouse B-movie and not really worthy of being in the Shakespeare canon. Kristof's first sentence isn't his justification for the second, he's just referencing how gory and over-the-top of a play it is to try and score some points by critiquing Bannon's low taste. That tweet is him simultaneously trying to sneer at somebody for liking something he doesn't and sneer at people he feels aren't smart enough to appreciate what he thinks is fine art. Its textbook Liberal Elitist stuff really. Arguing that 'the Shakespeare cannon' is a thing that exists and matters when it was the Game of Thrones of it's time is hilarious. It was well written popular entertainment and has gained a cachet of cultural importance because its old. The companies that produce Shakespeare as a pantomime are probably closer to a actual depiction of how the work was intended to be performed. You haven't seen Macbeth until you get to shout 'its behind you' to Macbeth while he is being haunted.
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Dec 7, 2016 06:41
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rkajdi posted:This is the kind of idea that needs to die. Being ignorant is a shame, not a virtue. Complaining that people are "Liberal Elitists" for having a fairly uncontroversial opinion about a fairly bad Shakespeare play (Titus Andronicus). This anti-intellectual stupidity is why we are stick in this post-fact era. You defer to people who are more educated and well-read on topics, instead of pulling a Trumpite and saying "Book learning is for urban queers. Just trust Jesus and common sense." The uneducated have less valuable opinions on subjects because they are literally ignorant on them. The solution is easy, but for all the hard work these types seem to want to put forward, reading an actual book is motherfucking kryptonite. You are fundamentally missing the point. The liberal Elitist knock is to the sort of person assigning a greater cachet of artistic merit to a work than it really deserves which Shakespeare is a key example of. Its like somebody explaining why they are so much more educated because they read Harry Potter. The value in Shakespeare is as a means of entertainment and a way of observing the cultural style of the times more relevant to the man in the street than a more serious work run off as a book. On performance art and famous performance artists, I would say there is a fairly compelling argument that Filthy Frank's dadaist stylings coupled with his sub count would make him a far more famous and influential performance artist than Abramovic.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:01
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El Pollo Blanco posted:As far as I'm aware, the only one I've seen is about Operation Yewtree, which was a discussion about an actual wideranging police investigation, and not baseless smears? I'm sure baseless smears occurred in the thread though, yes. First article I could find and its a poo poo source, but the political elite paedo rabbit hole goes way, way deeper than yewtree. Given the country I live in and the laws I live under I am unwilling to discuss it any further than that  the daily heil posted:In the bombshell letter written in 1986, MI5 boss Sir Antony Duff revealed two sources had accused an MP of child abuse. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mi5-helped-margaret-thatcher-cover-6120006
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Dec 8, 2016 23:42
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the black husserl posted:Nah, there isn't some secret culture of pedophilia* among the ultra-rich any more than there are Satanic Sex Cults in Memphis TN. Pedophilia manifests among the rich exactly like it does in the poor: a vile compulsion that some people act on. The "120 Days of Sodom" thing you're imagining just isn't really happening any more in America outside of FLDS camps and other religious cults. While this is a nice idea it doesn't fit with what Yewtree and the later operations found in the UK, and as another WASPish country I strongly doubt the US would be different.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:19
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the black husserl posted:I'm not sure what you mean. Yewtree was a group of pedophiles who worked together in British entertainment using their unique access to children to commit serial abuse. Monstrous, but what does it have to do with the US? No evidence of a system or culture of pedophilia was found (thank god), just a bunch of rich criminals and the enablers who didn't want to report them because it might cost their jobs. Its skirting dangerously close to the edges of poo poo you end up in front of the beak for libel to go into what was actually going on in the political and judical bodies up until the end of the Thatcher era when John Major managed to gently caress them all off because he didn't need their support to hold power. There absolutely were networks of like minded individuals who used their positions of power to protect them from the consequences of their actions. This went on in many and varied types of crimes, not just paedo poo poo. You see the same style of behavior in the US with other types of crime involving people in similar situations and I find it unlikely in the extreme that somehow it doesn't include paedo poo poo because of american exceptionalism or something.
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Dec 9, 2016 08:20
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Silver2195 posted:What an incredibly stupid idea. Paypal tried to protect me from fraud when I was donating 10 dollars to movember so I trust their accuracy on who made the chemical weapon attacks for sure.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:44
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