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Silver2195 posted:Part of the problem is the difficulty of proving a negative. You can debunk some of the individual pieces of "evidence" being thrown around, but you can't affirmatively show that there's no child molestation going on at Comet Ping Pong. All you can do is point out that the evidence is super flimsy, and that's not enough for someone who's ideologically/emotionally motivated to believe it. This is simply an extension of the same stuff that's been done with abortion clinics in the past. And I'm happily surprised that it didn't come to blows yesterday, though I don't see it getting better before it gets solved. But in the current broken state of the US, where people think Freedom of Speech means you can make actionable lies about public or private figures without any punishment. I guess now if you don't support the proper political candidate, the right-wing media can fabricate lies about you being a pedo until the tin foil hat brigade shows up to murder you. After all, we didn't do poo poo about it after George Tiller or any of people in CO Springs were killed by nuts who bought into the right-wing media's fabrications about these people. The ability to create a well crafted lie and repeat it ad naseum until one of the crazies out there finally snaps and does the bidding of the propaganda machine is a skill that's been honed for years and years with no actual punishment towards the perpetrators.
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Dec 5, 2016 16:47
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Toplowtech posted:Yeah you can either ignore it or mock it. It's the current "Ted Cruz is the zodiac killer". When people start physically attacking Ted Cruz for being the Zodiac Killer, you might have a point. These lies are specifically set up to punish someone for standard political involvement, with the punishment being death. I'd say that's as far from the Zodiac Killer joke as you can get.
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Dec 5, 2016 16:51
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Toplowtech posted:The fact one can be taken as joke by most people and the other not, is just a slight difference in the number of idiots who can believe it. Isn't that a large part of the issue though? It an entirely different thing when something shows up for crazy tinfoil hat conspiracists who also take pride in being armed. I get the impression you are coming from the UK where this kind of thing isn't constantly threatened by half of the rural people. It's especially damning since it's very obvious what's going on, but the left just seems to mumble something about rights while not even trying to make anyone answer for it. quote:Yeah or what was done in the last few decade of tabloid press or when the mainstream media covered the aluminum tubes in Iraq accusation poo poo or any US sponsored war. I agree this is true for the whole GW2 lead up, but throwing stuff from tabloids in there makes zero sense. Nobody's dying over "who boffed who", but yet again we're dealing with literal crazies with guns coming out of the woodwork at the behest of z-tier net celebs like Alex Jones. If it doesn't scare you that we've seeded all this power to people so far down the ladder of respectability and sanity than I don't know what to tell you.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:18
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Toplowtech posted:No it's not just because i am European, Jo Cox was shoot to death, you do not have the monopoly on gun violence USA. No, i think the issue is not limited to really dumb people going to a pizzeria with shotgun because of a crazy joke conspiracy on the Internet. Feed people poo poo, you get more poo poo out of people. First off, you are correct that the US unfortunately does not have a monopoly on political gun violence. It does have the vast amount of it, however. Much larger than its population would suggest. And you don't have a 3%er/Oath Keeper third column movement your government just tolerates, unless I'm misreading the way English politics works. A huge amount of that is we (as in Americans) refuse to do a god damned thing when it happens, and just talk about "are rites" garbage. As if the person being assassinated didn't have any rights worth mentioning as compared to his character assassins and the various libertarian nutjobs who are convinced the only important freedoms are for bad things to happen to you. And the issue is allowing people to feed this kind of poo poo. It's like we're watching people plan this poo poo right out in the open and nobody's willing to do a thing about it because "rights". gently caress that. quote:And i just don't think the fake news problem is limited to the far right. I remember that at the start of the campaign for nearly one week of the Guardian (SERIOUS NEWS) published full of opinion pages on how TRUMP is Hitler TRUMP is Hitler, TRUMP is literally Hitler, literally everyday on their online front page. I remember thinking "some loving idiot will think he doesn't need a time machine to kill Hitler and then Jesus it will be a shitshow". Without any real proof, you're starting to sound like a truther. Bring real proof, not some Glen Beck wall of coincidences. And again sorry, pointing out that a guy stoking white populism and some new dolchstoßlegende while winking at the alt right might be at least edging towards fascism is a pretty standard opinion. If you don't want to be compared with trash tier politicians and people, don't have the same opinions as them. Coming up with a crazytown theory about a pizza place with exactly zero evidence is not even in the same ball park. One thing is an opinion based on very public positions. The other is a whole cloth fabrication in an attempt to get a decent person murdered by crazy gun trash. We've already seen it happen in slow motion with George Tiller, and I don't really think we should sit by with our hands in our pockets this time. quote:I also do not have an optimistic view on what would happen after you censor the info sources of dumb people armed with shotguns. I hate feeling like i will see the death of democracy in my lifetime. Obviously, the right solution is doing nothing about slander against a private citizen like pizzagate. If upholding lies is what it takes to have free expression, we don't need it. For reference, I think we can actually protect free expression while not allowing factual lies, but it will require actual work and a government that isn't siding with the tinfoil hat nuts. If making sure that lies don't get spread is the line the armed nuts refuse to cross, so be it. The point of the state is to protect decent people against violence both internal and external. If we're at the point where you can't count of that if don't look, gently caress, or pray like a loser from the Midwest, then things need to be fixed until that's no longer true. But you can't let the armed nuts veto society with bullets, that's just anarchy.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:02
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Byolante posted:That tweet is him simultaneously trying to sneer at somebody for liking something he doesn't and sneer at people he feels aren't smart enough to appreciate what he thinks is fine art. Its textbook Liberal Elitist stuff really. Arguing that 'the Shakespeare cannon' is a thing that exists and matters when it was the Game of Thrones of it's time is hilarious. It was well written popular entertainment and has gained a cachet of cultural importance because its old. The companies that produce Shakespeare as a pantomime are probably closer to a actual depiction of how the work was intended to be performed. You haven't seen Macbeth until you get to shout 'its behind you' to Macbeth while he is being haunted. This is the kind of idea that needs to die. Being ignorant is a shame, not a virtue. Complaining that people are "Liberal Elitists" for having a fairly uncontroversial opinion about a fairly bad Shakespeare play (Titus Andronicus). This anti-intellectual stupidity is why we are stick in this post-fact era. You defer to people who are more educated and well-read on topics, instead of pulling a Trumpite and saying "Book learning is for urban queers. Just trust Jesus and common sense." The uneducated have less valuable opinions on subjects because they are literally ignorant on them. The solution is easy, but for all the hard work these types seem to want to put forward, reading an actual book is motherfucking kryptonite.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:42
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Mulaney Power Move posted:I don't think her art is good, I think it's creepy, and Dali was a weird guy too except I actually like some of his paintings. Just because I don't share your tastes in weird performance art doesn't mean I'm ignorant or "don't get it," unless you simply want to be pretentious. I think the issue is that it's more middle American ignorati claiming stuff they don't like is Satanist or worthy of a whispers campaign about. These people are walking into a conversation they know nothing about and getting mad that they don't like what is being discussed. Again, ignorance is something to be ashamed of, not a virtue.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:53
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Toplowtech posted:Lol i am french, do you want me to tell you how the so called "leftwing" media covered the opposition of my country against the US invasion of iraq in the UN in 2002? Pretty pretty weakly when they weren't straight up for the Bush&Blair propaganda machine. And i am not talking about fox news. As long as it server their corporate masters' interests the US&Uk press corp is just one giant machine to sell believable lies for profit. Them suddenly trying to fight "fake news" because one half it is in bed with a white nationalist is so loving ridiculous, sorry. So your position is that papers put out pro-war agitprop they can't fight back against a white nationalist now? That's insane. You oppose white nationalists with every drat tool you have every drat time, because we know what happens when they get real power. The whole "press is out to sell us lies, man" is not an acceptable position for a thinking adult to have. There is no objective position on issues, but this solipsistic crap is just a way to punt and not bother even trying to figure out what actually is going on. quote:. And it would be nice if the "Putin hacked the us election" guys would try to do the same. Because it's loving hard not to see the same crazy behavior on both side of the US political&journalistic spectrum when you all really rely on crazy conspiracy theories the second you lose. Same poo poo, just a (D) instead of a (R) this time. You won't hear any argument with me on making GBS threads on this stupid position. Putin definitely tried (and succeeded) in tipping the election, but there was no direct hacking of the voting machines. I think there's pretty good evidence that it was Russians who hacked the DNC, though. Unless you're so deep into solipsistic that you don't believe anything anyone says. quote:Well the reason the alt right is spreading that insane conspiracy so well is because they are claiming it's being censored . The main problem is that there is no loving coherent message against said conspiracy (except "maybe we should do something"), just people panicking around trying to do something, anything really to stop the rival message. And it's kinda helping it. The coherent message is "sue the gently caress out of Alex Jones and crew until they are living in the poor house", and having the internet services voluntarily not push this crazy agenda. The alt right is going to scream censorship at any manner of non-governmental action, because we have an unhealthy belief that internet free speech means that you get to say anything with zero consequences, that every private carrier has to allow your filth to be published, and anyone who thinks before they say things are "self-censoring". We've seen this stuff with all the various nerd community stuff on the internet, and the lack of punishment on it has lead to it spilling into normal culture with horrible and predictable results.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:25
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