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Warhawk109
Mar 13, 2017


spacetoaster posted:

How'd that work out for them?

Well I never tried it myself. Never made a sale either, glad I never did. They encouraged trying to sell to friends/family. That could have ruined some relationships.

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D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


College Slice

thatguy posted:

Derek sued the IRS... :laffo::laffo::laffo:

Well, even the Tax Payer Advocate office grew tired of the bullshit back and forth, and advised my attorney and I to take it all the way to the US Tax Court so that a judge can compel them to follow their own guidelines. So that's what we did.

I didn't actually "sue" them in the known meaning of the term; it just shows up that way because I am the plaintiff/petitioner in a complaint to the US Tax Court against the IRS. This is because the US Tax Court is impartial and is the highest authority over the IRS. It's like going over your teacher's head to report a classmate to the principal. Or going over the principle to the board of education. That sort of thing. Then it's out of the IRS agent's hands and assigned to an IRS attorney to deal (fix it by settling, or explaining to the judge why they are right, and the plaintiff is wrong) with.

And I only did that because we stood a 100% likelihood of prevailing due to the facts in the matter (they improperly filed a tax lien for an improper amount to get me to pay something I didn't actually owe, and that lien affected my credit. then they've been dragging their heels in correcting it). I didn't want to wait for years for them to sort out their bullshit, like they do to other people. So I took action - and they will be liable for my legal fees anyway. Ain't no thing.

Business people do this all the time; especially in asset forfeiture cases in which the govt. agencies overstep their bounds, and only a judge can get them into legal compliance. You just need to be brave (as long as you are legit, you have nothing to fear), diligent, and have the money in accounting and legal fees to follow through. In the end, with asset forfeiture that you read about all the time, what's the point in spending $10K in legal bills to go after a $5K seizure? Which is what happens with some business owners who use $9,999 deposits to skirt the bank's $10K requirement for reporting to the IRS. Money launderers and drug dealers won't bother though. Can't say I blame them. :grin:

D_Smart fucked around with this message at 15:11 on May 4, 2017

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

Warhawk109 posted:

They encouraged trying to sell to friends/family. That could have ruined some relationships.

Everyone goes through this phase. A Realtor I'm related to came back with this from their company as a marketing thrust, and I told them to shift companies.

In stellar evolution terms, hitting your family and friends up for sales is attempting to burn iron. It's hard work, and it's going to backfire hard from time to time.

MinorInconvenience
Feb 24, 2017

Criminal lawyer or criminal, lawyer. Yeah. No difference.


Is Ben's stupid loving response to the "referral controvesry" getting any traction? Because it is a pretty blatant piece of spin-doctoring that essentially admits that they don't have enough cash to finish 3.0 without more money.


He starts off his little poo poo piece by stating:

quote:

The most important feedback to me is the concern over the new player experience. There’s a strong feeling that we should not be pushing new players into the game without a support network.

But then CIG's official answer to this feedback is not to stop and wait until the game is (more) done, but to:

quote:

we’re moving around some resources to support a new player initiative.

Instead of, you know, actually loving finishing the game, first.


Then Ben goes for the big question on everybody's mind:

quote:

Another big issue we’ve found is what has come across as the... I’d say urgency of the contest. Why such a push right now? That question has a few answers, and I’d like to talk about them.

Oh boy, I can't loving wait.

quote:

First of all, you are absolutely correct that we want new Citizens to join the game. But I know this has been categorized as a kind of ‘cash grab,’ and I want to add that I don’t think that’s the spirit of the thing at all. Why? Because we aren’t buying rocket cars and moon boots... we’re putting all that money back into your game.

What a strawman question-and-response!! Ben misinterprets "cash grab" to mean "Croberts wants a new boat" instead of "Croberts desperately needs more cash to finish the game he has bungled and grossly mismanaged."


But wait, I think Ben let slip a little truth in the next little bit...

quote:

The more backers we bring in, the more staff we hire and the more we can do with the game. And that’s the dream we’ve been chasing, the one you’ve made possible: a game ruled by ideas that fights as hard as it can to always do better instead of being good enough. We try hard to make our marketing fun and immersive and part of the experience... so sometimes the sheer necessity gets lost. Every time we sell the game, development gets better. And there’s nothing else like that in the world.

Let's break this one down. They currently have 438 or so staff by their admission. The game's feature set is not supposed to be growing anymore (no more stretch goals). If those two facts are the case, why do they need more money to "hire staff" to "do more with the game?" Why don't you have everything you already need?

But then the best line in this quote comes: Every time we sell the game, development gets better. Really, Ben? Really? How does development get better with more money if you had enough money to finish the game with the features you have already promised? And there it is... the admission. Translated, this statement means: Every time we sell the game, development continues.

I submit this is more damning than Croberts "we can finish SQ42 with the cash we have and use the sales to fund Star Citizen" quote from back in January. Because, based upon statements made in connection with the 3.0 schedule, SQ42 is so tied to the same technology they can't get working for Star Citizen, they have hosed themselves and their backers.

The game is doomed unless they harpoon some new whales. Good luck, fuckers.

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


Hav posted:

Everyone goes through this phase. A Realtor I'm related to came back with this from their company as a marketing thrust, and I told them to shift companies.

In stellar evolution terms, hitting your family and friends up for sales is attempting to burn iron. It's hard work, and it's going to backfire hard from time to time.

Odd how these scammy, MLM, pyramid scheme sounding things are coming up in a thread devoted to our love of SC isn't it?

DarkRefreshment fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 4, 2017

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


College Slice

MinorInconvenience posted:

Is Ben's stupid loving response to the "referral controvesry" getting any traction?

No.

Notice how neither Sandi (who is responsible for marketing) nor Chris (who is the creator) stepped in front of it. Instead, the pawned it off to the most toxic person on the project and who has since taken a back seat since last year. All of a sudden, he's the meat barrier because the best way to deal with a toxic community, is to have your contract staff toxic member, step in front of it. Makes sense.

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


MonsterGirth Van Hugenstein posted:

But I know this has been categorized as a kind of ‘cash grab,’ and I want to add that I don’t think that’s the spirit of the thing at all.

"I don't think we are hard up for money" really gives me the confidence level I expect from a multimillion dollar company.
:lesnick: surely couldn't be being set up as a fall guy could he?

DarkRefreshment fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 4, 2017

TrustmeImLegit
Jan 14, 2017

by FactsAreUseless


They've got the citizenry well trained. They expect 0 response at all times so whenever they open their mouth, even if its PR speak, it gets instant accolades as 'CIG listens to us more than anyone else".

Theotus
Nov 7, 2014



I doubt it.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:


Grimey Drawer

Ben Lesnick, Meat Barrier

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


D_Smart posted:

No.

Notice how neither Sandi (who is responsible for marketing) nor Chris (who is the creator) stepped in front of it. Instead, the pawned it off to the most toxic person on the project and who has since taken a back seat since last year. All of a sudden, he's the meat barrier because the best way to deal with a toxic community, is to have your contract staff toxic member, step in front of it. Makes sense.

If Sandi had any clue what she was doing in her role as the VP of Marketing she would have said something. This whole thing was born, raised and died in her wheelhouse.

Theotus
Nov 7, 2014



DarkRefreshment posted:

If Sandi had any clue what she was doing in her role as the VP of Marketing she would have said something. This whole thing was born, raised and died in her wheelhouse.

Any referral is a net gain for them, yes? If that's the case then it was successful, even if it was terribly lovely and predatory.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


College Slice

DarkRefreshment posted:

If Sandi had any clue what she was doing in her role as the VP of Marketing she would have said something. This whole thing was born, raised and died in her wheelhouse.

She won't want to take responsibility for something she's going to get attacked over. So get a backseat peon to deal with the toxic ire. It's a great plan if you ask me.

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


Meridian posted:

Any referral is a net gain for them, yes? If that's the case then it was successful, even if it was terribly lovely and predatory.

Makes you wonder what kind of heartless marketing scams she ran at the lemonade stand when she was the best at it since she was a little girl.

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


D_Smart posted:

She won't want to take responsibility for something she's going to get attacked over. So get a backseat peon to deal with the toxic ire. It's a great plan if you ask me.

Being in the presence of your personal deity and mentor has really done a number on the level of poo poo Ben will take. If it wasn't for the fact he was a racist complacent stalker I'd almost feel for him.

DarkRefreshment fucked around with this message at 15:29 on May 4, 2017

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

DarkRefreshment posted:

Odd how these scammy, MLM, pyramid scheme sounding things are coming up in a thread devoted to our love of SC isn't it?

We're the woke core of people standing against the forces of evil that would defraud widows and orphans of their taxpayer money.

I don't think the number of Floridians up here in this poo poo is a coincidence, either.

Lime Tonics
Nov 7, 2015

by FactsAreUseless


http://i.imgur.com/riCxAbs.gifv

Polish Avenger
Feb 13, 2007
has an invalid opinion.

D_Smart posted:

No.

Notice how neither Sandi (who is responsible for marketing) nor Chris (who is the creator) stepped in front of it. Instead, the pawned it off to the most toxic person on the project and who has since taken a back seat since last year. All of a sudden, he's the meat barrier because the best way to deal with a toxic community, is to have your contract staff toxic member, step in front of it. Makes sense.

How hard was it to write "meat barrier" without further accentuation?

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



DarkRefreshment posted:

"I don't think we are hard up for money" really gives me the confidence level I expect from a multimillion dollar company.
:lesnick: surely couldn't be being set up as a fall guy could he?

I hope not. That kind of shock to the Earth's crust would probably trigger the San Andreas fault and Yellowstone all at once, and that would end badly for a lot of people.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Tippis posted:

I hope not. That kind of shock to the Earth's crust would probably trigger the San Andreas fault and Yellowstone all at once, and that would end badly for a lot of people.

Yogi Bear :ohdear:

MinorInconvenience
Feb 24, 2017

Criminal lawyer or criminal, lawyer. Yeah. No difference.


DarkRefreshment posted:

"I don't think we are hard up for money" really gives me the confidence level I expect from a multimillion dollar company.
:lesnick: surely couldn't be being set up as a fall guy could he?

I would suggest he is not a "fall guy" so much as a "useful idiot." He admits that he worships at the altar of Wing Commander, so it is easy to see how he is willing to take everything his Lord and Savior Croberts tells him as gospel, without question. I would guess than Ben has no loving clue just how bad financially CIG is and simply runs off of blind faith in Croberts. They got Ben to say that bullshit because he believes it.

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014




*pictures Ben plotting to steal pic-a-nic baskets*

TrustmeImLegit
Jan 14, 2017

by FactsAreUseless


DarkRefreshment posted:

If Sandi had any clue what she was doing in her role as the VP of Marketing she would have said something. This whole thing was born, raised and died in her wheelhouse.

Why. Its not like she has to answer to the CEO.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Ben's more of a roll guy than a fall guy

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013



The last time Ben fell over a tsunami hit Fukushima.

That was six years ago. If he fell over now I'm afraid California would sheer off the mainland and sink into the ocean.

thatguy
Feb 5, 2003


MinorInconvenience posted:

blind faith in Croberts
:prepop:

Dementropy
Aug 23, 2010



Iceclaw
Nov 4, 2009

Fa la lanky down dilly, motherfuckers.

OTOH, Ben is probably your best best for being an immovible object to hide behind.

What's a MLM, by the way?

Theotus
Nov 7, 2014



Iceclaw posted:

OTOH, Ben is probably your best best for being an immovible object to hide behind.

What's a MLM, by the way?

Multi-level marketing. Pyramid scheme.

Dementropy
Aug 23, 2010



Theotus
Nov 7, 2014




The goddamn goons are at it again!

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos



Using this as some kind of ammo in a childish argument about video games is loving disgusting

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


I'm really nailing that first post per page thing today wow

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016




Strange ammo to be using about a video game. :aaa:

:lol: Beaten to it in the same way that Ben, regardless of mass, manages to beat everyone else to the donut counter.

Sabreseven fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 4, 2017

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Lava planets - liquid planets - Rock planets - Desert planets - Ice planets.
What other type of levels are there in 90s platformers that Chris can use?

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


So erm guys erm would it erm be out of place to have erm some kind of mushroom planet? *waves hands* How about an erm green hill zone?

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao


Warhawk109 posted:

When I was younger, I got sucked into buying a super expensive vacuum by a friend (filter queen). I was told I would get it for free, if I joined their sales team, and made a sale. So I went for the training, went out on a few "demos" with some of their salesmen. There's no compunction about the customers ability to pay, they sign them up for a loan for thousands of dollars. Going to older people's homes was common, because they were easy marks. They'd call people up, promise them a bunch of free stuff (no mention of what they were selling) and they'd teach you to tilt your head forward and just walk in their door as soon as someone answered. Not quite the level of MLM, but similar kind of tactics. I didn't last long there.

I still have a working FilterQueen vacuum my parents bought from a dorr-to-door salesman in the 80's... that thing is extremely well built

Samizdata
May 14, 2007


peter gabriel posted:

So erm guys erm would it erm be out of place to have erm some kind of mushroom planet? *waves hands* How about an erm green hill zone?

That's okay, I guess, but I am quitting if they have a...gambling place...lots of lights and color...a....casino zone, if you will.

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his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:


Grimey Drawer

peter gabriel posted:

I'm really nailing that first post per page thing today wow

yeah, and two pages worth of tax :colbert:

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