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XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube



Beet Wagon posted:

The key to it all is that you can only CCU to a ship that's currently in-game.

Let's say CIG has ships A,B,C, and D on sale in-store ready to go. You buy Ship A, but can buy a "token" to change Ship A to any of the other ships. The token costs whatever the difference is in the price of the ships, and you get to keep all the other widgets that originally came with your Ship A (LTI, Alpa access, etc...). You can buy this token, but it's not used immediately on purchase, because maybe you decide you like Ship A after all, or whatever. Who knows.

Later on, CIG announces that they are going to be making ships E,F, and G. You really want Ship G instead of Ship D, but you want to keep your LTI, so you wait and wait and wait until it gets put in the game, and CCU your Ship D to a Ship G. That's how they're supposed to be used.

Now let's say you really really want Ship D, but you want it with LTI and they're no longer offering it. They are however offering a concept sale on Ship E and it comes with LTI. You buy Ship E - still in concept - then spend dollars to CCU it to Ship D - already in game - now with LTI even though they stopped "selling" Ship D with LTI three years ago.

NOW, let's say you think you're gonna want a Ship D way down the line, but you're not sure. So you buy a bunch of tokens for each of your ships to turn them into Ship D just in case you want to way down the line. You hold on to them, eventually they put Ship D in the game but it's twice as big and $100 more than it cost when you bought the CCU tokens. The token's value doesn't change, because it allows a straight trade and you paid the difference in value at time of purchase. So now you can take your Ship A and turn it into a Ship D for $100 less than it's currently selling for, AND you still have your LTI and game package and alpha access. Even better news, LTI Ship Ds are selling on the marketplace for $100 more than they're selling for on CIG's website, so if you sell it you're up 200 bucks. So in this case it's absolutely in your best interest to just stockpile CCUs to EVERY ship possible on the off chance you decide you want one or it triples in size and price and you can make some money.

They built an insanely lovely system and now they're mad at their users for min/maxing it.

This really didn't help at all. Are CIG's customers buying securities?

Somebody call the FBI and the SEC.

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Daztek
Jun 2, 2006






what was this about again, i forgot :(

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Beet Wagon posted:


They built an insanely lovely system and now they're mad at their users for min/maxing it.

No, they designed a system perfectly suited to milk whales / grey market guys, by giving them an incentive to buy a shitload of cheapo ships and then use CCUs to profit in the future. While the stated point of the CCUs is to let you upgrade your ships, the actual reason for their existence is to sell more poo poo and to throw a bone to the grey market.

Otherwise, why not let you just upgrade the ship on your package directly by paying any difference in price?


And now they are mad because the grey market guys would have a big discount just when CIG needs the money.



XK posted:

This is where my confusion comes in. Buying/trading a straight upgrade from one chariot to another, I understand. It's this thing about buying multiple upgrades, or buying upgrades for ships you don't own, that I don't feel like I'm grasping.

Purchasing options for upgrades only makes sense to me in the realm of the stock market which wrecked itself over credit default swaps.

Maybe CIG can figure out how to sell bundled AAA rated insurance policies.

You're thinking about the what and not the why. It doesn't have to make much sense as long as it brings more money.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Daztek posted:

what was this about again, i forgot :(

Star Citizen archered watermarked images.


Stock photo website just got back to me about the archer.

Variable 5
Apr 17, 2007
random

Grimey Drawer

The issue is that some of the CCU tokens are free ($0) but due to the fact that nobody at CIG has a clue, they're actually worth something in that they somehow add to the value of the ship that's being acquired (rarity, LTI, whatever). So if you're retarded enough to still be backing SC at this point and you have the opportunity to get virtual items for free that may actually increase in value, you might as well get a hundred of them.

Someone in the CIG "accounting" department saw all of these CCU tokens and figured they could use them for a quick cash infusion.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Imagine being one of the suckers who bought dozens of space-bikes in order to make a killing with CCUs. Lol. They got wrecked.

Strangler 42
Jan 8, 2007

SHAVE IT ALL OFF
ALL OF IT


Taintrunner posted:

So what even is this game supposed to be anymore?

It's the dream of a giant manbaby that was chased out of Hollywood because he dared to dream too big.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


By the way, the CCU thing also means that the mertchantman is going to have its price increased by a metric shitload. It used to be $350 but I bet it goes to a cool $600 at the least.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015







trucutru posted:

By the way, the CCU thing also means that the mertchantman is going to have its price increased by a metric shitload. It used to be $350 but I bet it goes to a cool $600 at the least.

poo poo, when it started it was $250 I think. Shoulda kept mine and sold it haha.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

Taintrunner posted:

So what even is this game supposed to be anymore?

Everything.

Nothing.

Maybe somewhere between the...it's Nothing.

TheAgent
Feb 16, 2002

The call is coming from inside Dr. House

Grimey Drawer

e3 drunk ramblings are going to be loving amazing if peeps are already talking mad poo poo like this and they ain't even been drinkin

quote:

Chris and I had a pretty good working relationship, I think. Great even, as long as you don't share anything negative. As long as you don't say no or make things too complicated. We started calling him Chris the Ripper because he absolutely eviscerated people that tried explaining things to him.

quote:

In you go, thinking you have a handle on some part of the project, right? You have this thing nailed and yet it's totally gone when you get in. Tons of problems, that. You see it across every department, yeah? When one thing finishes climbing the stairs, Chris kicks it back down. Dragging it back up again and again, you feel like you've climbed a skyscraper but you're still on the first floor. Over and over. Some type of special developer hell, that. Some special circle, yeah? *laughs*

quote:

Chris surrounds himself with idiots. If he actually followed through on his promise to dismiss [a few senior staff] I might've stayed.

and here's some wonderful indie dev on an offsite forum

quote:

And what? We're expecting you're "hot take" bullshit analysis that automatically makes Chris Roberts a criminal instead of an indie developer. Obviously you have information of a criminal nature but are withholding it from the authorities. That in itself is a crime. Do you like being called a criminal? You proofed yourself one right now. Liars like you should be criminals against good people trying to do their best. I'm disgusted with the negativity surrounding Chris Roberts and his hard working team.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


There's always this classic too:

"I think it's safe to say that apart from maybe Charlie Chaplin there has never been a man that is as much of a walking, talking slapstick routine as Chris Roberts"

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

in this analogy, the worth of a CCU is (𝛿J)/(𝛿t) where 𝛿J is the difference in joy derived from having the original ship as compared to the "upgrade"

You obviously mean partially derived. :smugissar:

XK posted:

This really didn't help at all. Are CIG's customers buying securities?

Somebody call the FBI and the SEC.

Sure sounds like it. Time to dust off that old Enron simile again, since they, too, screwed up by not understanding the securities they were creating.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:


Grimey Drawer

Has anyone said Fart Shitizen yet?

I hope not.

Taintrunner
Apr 10, 2017

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Shart Shittizen is the name of my new snuff film, actually!

Plural Abysss
Feb 25, 2016


Virtual Captain posted:

:eyepop: brb pledging now!


I'd like to thank everyone for all the fantastic work we have done here in our hive of villany.

So far we have:

- Delayed the game by several years
- Made Chris Roberts endlessly shoot motion capture
- Made CIG steal artwork, repeatedly
- Fed Chris bogus release dates and forced him to promise major patches by the end of the year
- Stole CIGs logins and increased ship prices by 400% minutes before they went live
- Made Christ Roberts an amnesiac and completely unfamiliar or able to play his own game
- Made CIG have endless concept sales that make no sense
- Wrote a cartoonishly evil TOS and forced CIG to use it
- Made up a huge list of outrageous promises that will never be delivered and made it look like CIG were the ones doing it
- Prepared decades in advance by making Chris Roberts have a proven track record of over promising and under delivering
- Made the PU buggy and unplayable for more than a few mins
- Made any work to the PU be bad, take forever, and solve nothing
- Tricked CIG into talking about features and gameplay then forcing them to walk back on what they promised
- Brainwashed RSI mods into banning backers and ingraining the admins with a martial law mentality
- Hacked into CIGs site and turned on cash only discounts
- Produced hundreds of hours of embarassing, bad, stammering, idiotic, uninformative, outright misinformation in the form of videos where we pretended to be them with Mission Impossible level disguises that we then host on CIGs own website
- Bought out an entire company just for a 'spectrum' joke
- Closed the RSI forums
- Made CIG legally obligated to include Star Kitten in the final product
- Tricked Chris into thinking a referral contest was a brilliant idea

These among other things are no fault of CIGs and are in fact the work of us under the command of Derek Smart o7//

Pages back, but I liked this post. Kudos!

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

TheAgent posted:

and here's some wonderful indie dev on an offsite forum

That's remarkable.

Edit: Libel is a very serious thing, but it has to not be true. I'd love to see a judge wrapping his head around the difference between a purchase and a pledge.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



his nibs posted:

Has anyone said Fart Shitizen yet?

I hope not.

No. Scatological humour is way too sophisticated a level to suit this project, so we've stayed well clear of that because no-one wants to be that nice to SC.


Actually, based on that, MoMA might have said it at some point.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Beet Wagon posted:

poo poo, when it started it was $250 I think. Shoulda kept mine and sold it haha.

I just gotta know.

How did you ever decide it was reasonable to spend two hundred fifty amurrican dollars on a jpeg of a cargo hauler ship in a vidya game that did not exist

I keep having trouble understanding what leads people to that. Like, what? I had trouble justifying to myself paying blizzard like 25 bucks per character or whatever it was to move them to a different realm. It was so obvious a cash grab on top of all they'd already gotten from me in subscription fees, but the reason they could get away with it is with long time players like me they could trade on all the sentimental attachments built on years of actually playing the game. Items that brought back memories of hanging out with the friends who helped me get them, pointless time sink poo poo like achievements which have no value really, but at least it was all there and when I paid my money in a few moments the "service" would actually be delivered and I could play the game with my decked out character on a different realm where several of my friends had transferred to in order to join a good raiding guild after our old one died.

There just isn't much of anything to star citizen yet, and there was much less when people first began dropping hundreds on virtual goods, trading them above face value, and so on. It breaks my brain.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:



fuctifino posted:

I've read the posts explaining how CCUs work multiple times.

I still don't loving understand it. lol


I'm amazed they have a storefront that is more convoluted than security trading with the NYSE. Puts, calls, shorts, derivatives...all child's play against this debacle.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

BobHoward posted:

There just isn't much of anything to star citizen yet, and there was much less when people first began dropping hundreds on virtual goods, trading them above face value, and so on. It breaks my brain.

Around the $40 mill mark, it looked like they'd have enough to make a decent game, assuming that you cracked on and actually produced something. By 2014, it looked like the thing was on the rocks. By 2015, I think we'd figured out that it was a lot more loving insane than we thought, and by 2016, it became apparent that the real development was in ship concepts.

Edit: I never entirely ~get~ the idea of rarity ingame, but you were paying $25 for an avatar to move servers? Why that avatar? perceived worth? Same thing.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



Colostomy Bag posted:

I'm amazed they have a storefront that is more convoluted than security trading with the NYSE. Puts, calls, shorts, derivatives...all child's play against this debacle.

In this and in a number of other things, I get the distinct feeling that CIG is trying to emulate CCP because they created something really fancy from pretty humble beginnings. The problem is that they only know that it happened not how or why and they're trying to skip directly to the end result without any understanding of what the actual causes and effects behind those neat ideas were.

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


Beet Wagon posted:

poo poo, when it started it was $250 I think. Shoulda kept mine and sold it haha.

You just missed out on what MoMA has deemed his retirement plan. Remember that when he's sold all his ships, put his kids through college, bought a mansion next to CR and is sipping goon tears while on his 50' yacht.

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


Guys, it's totally not pedo if you fly off to some third world country and marry them right?
Asking for a friend on Reddit.

DarkRefreshment
May 5, 2015

Nothing is funnier than a dog in a formal outfit. Look it up on the internets.


BobHoward posted:

I just gotta know.

How did you ever decide it was reasonable to spend two hundred fifty amurrican dollars on a jpeg of a cargo hauler ship in a vidya game that did not exist

I keep having trouble understanding what leads people to that. Like, what? I had trouble justifying to myself paying blizzard like 25 bucks per character or whatever it was to move them to a different realm. It was so obvious a cash grab on top of all they'd already gotten from me in subscription fees, but the reason they could get away with it is with long time players like me they could trade on all the sentimental attachments built on years of actually playing the game. Items that brought back memories of hanging out with the friends who helped me get them, pointless time sink poo poo like achievements which have no value really, but at least it was all there and when I paid my money in a few moments the "service" would actually be delivered and I could play the game with my decked out character on a different realm where several of my friends had transferred to in order to join a good raiding guild after our old one died.

There just isn't much of anything to star citizen yet, and there was much less when people first began dropping hundreds on virtual goods, trading them above face value, and so on. It breaks my brain.

I had 500 in because I figured gently caress it. I spend way too much money on mobile games to pass the time and a poo poo load on World of Warships and I beat the wheels off them. So if this game is half of what those are $500 isn't piss. Then I woke up when I realized the sweet sweet milk I was drinking from the SC teat wasn't in fact milk. Nor, a teat for that matter.

e: gently caress, posting hat-trick

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

DarkRefreshment posted:

Guys, it's totally not pedo if you fly off to some third world country and marry them right?
Asking for a friend on Reddit.

Cradle-robbing or cradle-snatching is largely innocuous as a term. Macron's missus, for example.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015







BobHoward posted:

I just gotta know.

How did you ever decide it was reasonable to spend two hundred fifty amurrican dollars on a jpeg of a cargo hauler ship in a vidya game that did not exist

I keep having trouble understanding what leads people to that. Like, what? I had trouble justifying to myself paying blizzard like 25 bucks per character or whatever it was to move them to a different realm. It was so obvious a cash grab on top of all they'd already gotten from me in subscription fees, but the reason they could get away with it is with long time players like me they could trade on all the sentimental attachments built on years of actually playing the game. Items that brought back memories of hanging out with the friends who helped me get them, pointless time sink poo poo like achievements which have no value really, but at least it was all there and when I paid my money in a few moments the "service" would actually be delivered and I could play the game with my decked out character on a different realm where several of my friends had transferred to in order to join a good raiding guild after our old one died.

There just isn't much of anything to star citizen yet, and there was much less when people first began dropping hundreds on virtual goods, trading them above face value, and so on. It breaks my brain.

It's a long story, but it's basically a combination of plenty of DISPOSABLE INCOME, nostalgia, lack of research into Chris Roberts, and a desire to play with friends. My buddy threw down for the $250 pack during kickstarter, and got the $110(?) pack for his wife. My wife (then girlfriend) and I each got a little starter pack immediately after the kickstarter ended, but decided that we also wanted "bigger" ships to go cruise around with our friends in, and during the Holiday sale in 2014 each picked up a larger ship. It was a fairly blissful cycle of "talk about cool gameplay DREAMS with friends -> see cool jpeg -> maybe pick it up" for a little while, and that was all bolstered by the idealism of "I'm helping this guy build the game he's always wanted to, neat!" and fueled by the fact that we both had good jobs and few expenses. All told we ended up in for like $1100 I think? Something like that. I started getting concerns in 2015 but tried to believe for a bit longer before saying "Oh gently caress this whole thing."

On the upside, the friend who told us about Star Citizen asked me for help getting a refund a couple days ago, so it's come full circle.

Dementropy
Aug 23, 2010






trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Hav posted:

Cradle-robbing or cradle-snatching is largely innocuous as a term. Macron's missus, for example.

The correct term is ephebo-snatching.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


The token thing is bullshit. There is absolutely no way to garner any particular interest on the gameplay of a ship because 1) There is no game and 2) The amount of ships actually out is very small compared to what they are promising.

There is no "Edge" to being able to switch out of ships in the state of the thing, and there wont be for at least another 2-3 years. The fact that they went ahead and tried to do this before do to "database schmegma" and failed horribly is proof that they've never were interested in the technical, gameplay aspects of it. Its all about money.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:



I'm getting the impression this tech demo is a scam.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Cao Ni Ma posted:

The token thing is bullshit. There is absolutely no way to garner any particular interest on the gameplay of a ship because 1) There is no game and 2) The amount of ships actually out is very small compared to what they are promising.

There is no "Edge" to being able to switch out of ships in the state of the thing, and there wont be for at least another 2-3 years. The fact that they went ahead and tried to do this before do to "database schmegma" and failed horribly is proof that they've never were interested in the technical, gameplay aspects of it. Its all about money.

What if I told you that, while there is no edge to being able to switch out of ships, there is a way to switch out of ships for less money than the norm?

Wouldn't you be interested in such a deal?

Zzr
Oct 6, 2016



CIG could use the excuse of the big scale ransomware to delay their schedule even more.

TheAgent
Feb 16, 2002

The call is coming from inside Dr. House

Grimey Drawer

Cao Ni Ma posted:

The token thing is bullshit. There is absolutely no way to garner any particular interest on the gameplay of a ship because 1) There is no game and 2) The amount of ships actually out is very small compared to what they are promising.

There is no "Edge" to being able to switch out of ships in the state of the thing, and there wont be for at least another 2-3 years. The fact that they went ahead and tried to do this before do to "database schmegma" and failed horribly is proof that they've never were interested in the technical, gameplay aspects of it. Its all about money.
yeah, but like, Chris Roberts

Berious
Nov 13, 2005


Zzr posted:

CIG could use the excuse of the big scale ransomware to delay their schedule even more.

at least no developers wrists will get broken

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015








Hey I meant to ask, which Archering is this in reference to?

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:



Berious posted:

at least no developers wrists will get broken

Besides the whales that fap to this shitshow?

Mu77ley
Oct 14, 2016



Hav posted:

Seriously. Again, programmers read more code than they write, stop being mean to the people that follow you.

(I am currently documenting some code someone left behind. It's broken in places. FML & TGE)

Heh, welcome to my life for the last 3-4 months:

Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.



WARNING Contains actual ground breaking visionary game making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzUkngN6SBE

loving LOL Star Citizen. Crobbler's last chance is going to look like a bad 8bit game compared to these real next gen games.

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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

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