Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Nicholas
Mar 7, 2001

Were those not fine days, when we drank of clear honey, and spoke in calm tones of our love for the stuff?

"did someone say cereal?" - ben, probably

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014



To be fair it isn't hard to mistake Derek's games for something made 15-20 years ago.

Nicholas
Mar 7, 2001

Were those not fine days, when we drank of clear honey, and spoke in calm tones of our love for the stuff?

i feel bad about that but he is a terrible person like, in general

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

Kellanved posted:

Well, serialization. It's a bit late to think about this, no?
They can use some easy solution but then it'll be a security nightmare, something that you can't really allow in an MMO. Also depending on the format transmission errors can kill it. I think the rate of flipped bits in usual internets tubes is around 10^-4? They'll need a format robust enough to handle these transmission errors. I know little about networking, so there are likely methods to manage these errors, but they mean more bandwidth used when they don't have much of a budget.

It's not an impossible task, but you need to have a good handle on your codebase, so someone won't be able to see the code's underwear by intercepting those packets. And with their frankencode, I bet it's a pain in the rear end to develop a tidy solution.

You either don't care about the flipped bits and use UDP, or you want the packet and go TCP. Everything else is then in the application space, so you can set up a UDP updates route for *positional* elements and TCP for, say, *how many missiles do have*. In terms of security, most people just use TLS over HTTP, or if you're really kinky, inject some encryption above the network layer. Encryption uses about 25% extra bandwidth; if you can offload to a device with hardware encryption modules, you don't even notice the CPU cost.

Thing is that the network scaling is not a new problem, but while the graphics cards have scaled to provide the fidelity to animate 65K bits of your spaceship flying apart during an explosion, the positional updates per tick of each piece mean the client/server update fuuuuuuuuuuucccccckkkkkkkssss bandwidth. It's why everyone cheats and you get a clientside explosion and 'DEAD=1' updated to the server.

Broken record uncle reminiscence: Eve originally used to track every drone, can and every *missile* as a server object, rather than a localized object in a grid. First step to combat this was making missiles a 100% hit sig res/sig rad, then dropping the *max* number of inflight drones to 5 from 10. Second stage was only keeping track of poo poo on local grid, and putting timers on cans. They were literally moving the number of tracked objects down to maintain bandwidth for important stuff and completely hosed over the Navy Vexor in the process. The original Navy Vexor threw out fifteen drones.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Hey guys, I have a brand new idea that could certainly help CIG. Like, what if you could create objects that inherited the properties of other objects? I would call this property inheritronics.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

It's just a pledge bro!


Ben Lesnick, Cereal Killer

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014



trucutru posted:

Hey guys, I have a brand new idea that could certainly help CIG. Like, what if you could create objects that inherited the properties of other objects? I would call this property inheritronics.

Check out time machine man from the distant future. Please be realistic.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

It's just a pledge bro!


For today's Stimpire moment, I present to you the worst type of deskeletonization

http://i.imgur.com/qm7Ftev.gifv

The_Groove
Mar 15, 2003

Supersonic compressible convection in the sun

examples of serialized booleans used in Door 2.0 technology have been leaked:

0


1

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



Thoatse posted:

For today's Stimpire moment, I present to you the worst type of deskeletonization

http://i.imgur.com/qm7Ftev.gifv

This seems excessive.

darkarchon
Feb 2, 2016

My name is a trolling word


Thread is slow, posting space pics





Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



Oh yeah? Well, https://vimeo.com/22439234

darkarchon
Feb 2, 2016

My name is a trolling word


More space pics





Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development


lovely console space graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSwte6iXCQ8

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Tippis posted:

And anyway, it's not like it's anything new to them. After all, what is a jpeg but a big chunk of serialised variable?

Exactly - this is what Chris understands in his vision and what all the naysayers are refusing to see: everything is still down to bits in the code - it's still digital. Just like real life, where all atoms, however different their elemental manifestations, are still comprised of the same subatomic particles - this understanding, until now only achievable only by Chris Roberts, allows you to see that all computer code is also the same.

Hence if you make a ship JPEG, it will also serve as a ship. If you create space, the JPEG can be in that space. If you make a spaceman, you control the spaceman controlling the JPEG.

Then adding planets is just a matter of hiring a different kind of artist - in the end, it'll all be converted to JPEGS anyway, and then plugged into digital space. Since it's all just code anyway, it all just works - the server mesh and the network 2.0 leverage subsumption and the power in the machines to make something truly visionary.

We've had the technology the whole time, but the publishers didn't want anyone to know about it. It's not in a Big Publisher's interest to make the best game of all time which will cement their name in the annals of gaming history and guarantee a lifetime of unmatchable income - that's not the kind of thing for-profit businesses are interested in.

Even the motion capture they did years before they knew what kind of game they were making is just bits - it'll plug into everything else. No matter what they build, the motion-capture sequences they made will work around it. Motion-capture a guy climbing stairs, but in the final production there are no stairs there? That's not a problem at all because programming. Forgot to put atmospheric considerations in your space game? No issue at all because patch 3.0.

Forget to make an actual game as well? More than 5 years in and nobody on earth, including the CEO, has any idea whatsoever what they're making, and no idea what they're working towards? Every game is made that way - goons don't understand that even Donkey Kong was an accident involving a discarded arcade cabinet, 2 pounds of silicon, a hot glue gun, and a carelessly left-open bottle of floor wax.

I for one am excited about serialized variables and the exciting new things that will make it possible for us to imagine.

Scruffpuff fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 16, 2017

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it




Magnificent. I can make out the Stanton system.

Space Crabs
Mar 10, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Star Citizen basically stole it's idea from Star Ocean: Till the End of Time


In that we all find out we are in a simulation, The Verse, and when we go to fight Chris Roberts with laser swords he will delete the universe

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Thoatse posted:

For today's Stimpire moment, I present to you the worst type of deskeletonization

http://i.imgur.com/qm7Ftev.gifv

July 14th is always a bitch in the Stimpire.

darkarchon
Feb 2, 2016

My name is a trolling word


Colostomy Bag posted:

Magnificent. I can make out the Stanton system.

Nicholas
Mar 7, 2001

Were those not fine days, when we drank of clear honey, and spoke in calm tones of our love for the stuff?

New schedule report

https://www.diffchecker.com/oQY2DFl1

quote:

Completed
- Rover
- "Reworked" Cutlass Black
- "Reworked" Devastator Shotgun "Some minor polish remains"
- "Reworked" Arrowhead Sniper rifle "Some minor polish remains"
- Mobiglass refactor
- Diffusion subset for 3.0

Delayed
- Derelict ships. this was marked feature complete but also delayed 2 weeks (ETA is 30th June)
- Items 2.0 ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS (ETA June 27th)
- Asteroid Physics (ETA June 23rd)
- Exposure Improvements (ETA June 30th)
- Solar System Service Shop (ETA June 23rd)

Other
- New Message Queue has "a number of issues noted" (no longer has an ETA)
- Repair - "Code Complete Bugfixing to follow as needed" (no longer has an ETA)

4 reworks of things already finished, but still not actually completely "finished"
a new golf cart marked complete even though you cant transport it or use it on a planet
and whatever the gently caress "diffusion subset" means.
Actual gameplay features 0

Nicholas fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jun 16, 2017

Bubbacub
Apr 17, 2001



The_Groove posted:

examples of serialized booleans used in Door 2.0 technology have been leaked:

0


1

Yes, this is just another example of CIG being willing to being willing to invest the resources and time to create the fundamental technology and tools that the conventional game developers either will not or cannot (i.e. they are prevented by those that hold the purse strings) do themselves.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

Welcome to the
Dream Factory


Grimey Drawer


Pathetic.

No Big Bennys, no good

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help

Nicholas posted:

New schedule report

https://www.diffchecker.com/oQY2DFl1


4 reworks of things already finished
a new golf cart marked complete even though you cant transport it or use it on a planet
and whatever the gently caress "diffusion subset" means.
Actual gameplay features 0

heh, volumetric fog is now in an undefined state. It says ETA Jun 9 but it's not marked as "feature" complete.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Nicholas posted:

New schedule report

https://www.diffchecker.com/oQY2DFl1


4 reworks of things already finished, but still not actually completely "finished"
a new golf cart marked complete even though you cant transport it or use it on a planet
and whatever the gently caress "diffusion subset" means.
Actual gameplay features 0

quote:

The conversion to the Item 2.0 ships and how they work has introduced unforeseen issues with their physics. This will require a combination of Tech Design and Physics code to address the situation.
ETA is 16th June (was 2nd June)

If there is one thing they are good at, is solving physics issues.

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help

Did it land on the avocados' faces yet?

Nicholas
Mar 7, 2001

Were those not fine days, when we drank of clear honey, and spoke in calm tones of our love for the stuff?

who was the redditor taunting DS a week ago that 3.0 was going to be released today lol

CaptainBtaksDad
Jun 3, 2017

by FactsAreUseless


AbstractNapper posted:

Did it land on the avocados' faces yet?

not for weeks lmao

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Citizencon info:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15961-CitizenCon-Tickets-Announcement

Should be a hoot. Might have 3.0 ready.

Dial A For Awesome
May 23, 2009


CitizenCon scheduled for 27 October this year in Germany: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15961-CitizenCon-Tickets-Announcement

A mere €50 to be there in person when the Crobbler spits all over a cake.

Edit: Beaten since the release of the post was delayed by while I answered the call to refactor the serialised variables.

Dial A For Awesome fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jun 16, 2017

Solarin
Nov 15, 2007



darkarchon posted:

Thread is slow, posting space pics







these are awesome

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005





Still confused on how these are a convention. Aren't they really just a few hours of powerpoint presentations?

LGD
Sep 25, 2004



phosdex posted:

Still confused on how these are a convention. Aren't they really just a few hours of powerpoint presentations?

I don't see how that has any bearing on the accuracy of the name.

xiansi
Jan 26, 2012

im judjing all goons cause they have bad leader, so a noral member is associated whith thoose crasy one

Personaly i would quit the goons if i was in cause of thoose crasy ppl

Clapping Larry

Scruffpuff posted:

Even the motion capture they did years before they knew what kind of game they were making is just bits - it'll plug into everything else. No matter what they build, the motion-capture sequences they made will work around it. Motion-capture a guy climbing stairs, but in the final production there are no stairs there? That's not a problem at all because programming. Forgot to put atmospheric considerations in your space game? No issue at all because patch 3.0.

Clearly you understand game development.

Check out this whiny diatribe full of excuses about how animation actually 'works' made by a bunch of lazy amateurs who understand neither fidelity or motion capture:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1535515364/pathologic/posts/1912213

Can't believe I was dumb enough to back this.


(I am so glad I backed this, it looks incredible - check out dancing madness lady!)

Nanako the Narc
Sep 6, 2011



Nicholas posted:

New schedule report

https://www.diffchecker.com/oQY2DFl1


4 reworks of things already finished, but still not actually completely "finished"
a new golf cart marked complete even though you cant transport it or use it on a planet
and whatever the gently caress "diffusion subset" means.
Actual gameplay features 0

quote:

The Ship Art team is aiming to create another set of Derelict ships to be used in the Persistent Universe. These exploration rewards will appear to have been used as shelter by somebody rather than just being empty. Unfortunately, we’re still working on AI functioning on the planet surface, so they will looked lived in, but uninhabited. For now…

So... still no human NPCs then?

Also someone posted a timeline of SC detailing events and the expected crash. One of the events was "Beer4thebeergod proved right" or something along those lines. Can anyone explain what that is about? I only just started reading this thread the last few months after ignoring SC for 4 years or so so I have no idea what this refers to.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015









How is this thread not full of posts about how excited everyone is for "Go collect 25 INSANELY GENERIC ALIEN BUG legs" fetch quests?

Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jun 16, 2017

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014



That is one fidelitous bear rear end

kilus aof
Mar 24, 2001


So on the subject of networking and dreams how is something like a MISC Hull E suppose to work? The specs say it has 98304 standard cargo units. When it is just travelling through space you don't have to update cargo, you can just assume the cargo system is working. But what happens when some players come along and start blasting a Hull E? For fidelity reasons are they really going to have thousands of objects just start floating around needing constant updates on the 64 bit position, direction, speed and rotation for each object for say 20 players? It is just absurd to think about the gulf between what their stated goals are and what can actually be done.

kilus aof fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jun 16, 2017

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006




kilus aof posted:

So on the subject of networking and dreams how is something like a MISC Hull E suppose to work? The specs say it has 98304 standard cargo units. When it is just travelling through space you don't have to update cargo, you can just assume the cargo system is working. But what happens when some players come along and start blasting a Hull E? For fidelity reasons are they really going to have thousands of objects just start floating around needing constant updates on the 64 bit position, direction, speed and rotation for each object for say 20 players? It is just absurd to think about the gulf between what their stated goals are and what can actually be done.

Well yeah, but the cargo will be Serialized Variables, so it'll be fine

Various Meat Products
Oct 1, 2003



phosdex posted:

Still confused on how these are a convention. Aren't they really just a few hours of powerpoint presentations?

Yeah but remember just how desperate citizens are for even the tiniest scraps of new information

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nicholas
Mar 7, 2001

Were those not fine days, when we drank of clear honey, and spoke in calm tones of our love for the stuff?

kilus aof posted:

So on the subject of networking and dreams how is something like a MISC Hull E suppose to work? The specs say it has 98304 standard cargo units. When it is just travelling through space you don't have to update cargo, you can just assume the cargo system is working. But what happens when some players come along and start blasting a Hull E? For fidelity reasons are they really going to have thousands of objects just start floating around needing constant updates on the 64 bit position, direction, speed and rotation for each object for say 20 players? It is just absurd to think about the gulf between what their stated goals are and what can actually be done.

youve already put more thought into this than CIG

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply