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The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

BluesShaman posted:

Women do have wider pelvises for fitting babbys through them.

Since this is a video game, obviously the :females: will be wearing stiletto space boots. So the finished animation should go something like this:



This game was so good. Even outside of the crazy style it somehow all fit together and I loved it's insanity and style.

CIG hasn't a chance of ever meeting this game in style, substance, quality, and most importantly pure fun. This was one of the funnest games I played for a while.

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The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Mario death mask posted:

I know why the Sandi character isn't in the game yet- did you see how unnatural her walk was when they mocap'd it?

e: beaten by the very same

Don't try to beat a sunk ship to the bottom. I'm already there, covered in all the filth. :)

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Sarsapariller posted:

Reminder: this is what CIG promised mining would be, back when there was a ship sale at stake:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14522-Design-Notes-Mining

I guess I'll ask here too…

Someone — and I can't remember who or find using search :eng99: — did a nice effort post a while back about what basic mechanics would be needed to implement the simplest form of mining. It would be really neat to pick that up to compare and contrast against that old “design note concept sale” and the latest Chris-mubmle about what mining might possibly entail.

Does anyone (maybe even the author) remember it and/or have a link to it?

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Nyast posted:

You heretic, you don't get it. What's the point of putting women in game if you don't have fidelicious breasts juggling physics ?

Really the female character should just be a pair of hips with tits and pouty lips. Let's just cut to the chase here and get right to it. :colbert:

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Nanako the Narc posted:

Wait, you don’t get sparkles and butterflies flying out of your fingertips when you swirl your finger around the lip of a cup? :confused:

Also CIG’s decision to cut a ton of features from 3.2 on the very first update after 3.1 was released was just so CIG :allears:.

You know I didn't want to tell people the truth about that. You're releasing girl secrets. You should probably go to your nearest kitchen and enter your secret refrigerator vac tube train to FemWorld for reconstitution. The Girlstapo has probably already seen your post and are swinging their sultry child bearing hips into motion as we speak!

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."

The Titanic posted:

Really the female character should just be a pair of hips with tits and pouty lips. Let's just cut to the chase here and get right to it. :colbert:

Leaked footage of CIG female character models, followed by behind the scenes of their server maintenance teams *:nws:*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKKTsJZ5kU&t=48s

CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 7, 2018

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

This picture is good because it always reminds me of how the npc population is supposed to hugely outnumber players dynamically, and yet everywhere is always going to look empty and void of activity; barring the one guy mopping the floor every few sections.

Somehow while taking Blade Runner as a reference they forgot one of the coolest aspects of the theme was how overpopulated and lived in everything was.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

CrazyLoon posted:

Leaked footage of CIG female character models, followed by behind the scenes of their server maintenance teams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKKTsJZ5kU&t=48s

:stare:

This was a thing!

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Sarsapariller posted:

Reminder: this is what CIG promised mining would be, back when there was a ship sale at stake:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14522-Design-Notes-Mining

What is mining going to look like now?

Frank_Leroux
Mar 24, 2018

The Titanic posted:

Having a hard time seeing the difference here but I'm sure Chris has 250 people working on this fidelity as we speak!

https://youtu.be/7UOIe6o5Qpk

https://youtu.be/GBkJY86tZRE


The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Golli posted:

Enjoy this picture of a clearly female human astronaut (Peggy Whitson) engaged in a space walk.



You can tell she's a female because of the enormous space compact she is using to check her monocle inside her helmet as the chain sometimes detaches from her snoopy cap, a fashion "don't".

Even in this still frame, I can't really not notice how much her breasts are jiggling and how her walk is definitely female human. You're right, CIG does need to re motion capture absolutely everything with a female human model.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Mario death mask posted:

I know why the Sandi character isn't in the game yet- did you see how unnatural her walk was when they mocap'd it?

e: beaten by the very same

We've actually seen photos of Sandi's stunt double mocap session so stop with the FUD

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





peter gabriel posted:

We've actually seen photos of Sandi's stunt double mocap session so stop with the FUD



I really hope the CIG intern reading this thread shows that to her lmao

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

I no joke think they need to get Charlie Chaplin videos and use him as the reference for proper human male movement and animation.

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."
Oh god no! Beet's AV turning into that is greater punishment than any probie I could've gotten for not initially :nws: my post...

...please can you just stick to putting that in people's prob reason? :(

Tarquinn
Jul 3, 2007

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you
my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.
Hell Gem

Golli posted:

Enjoy this picture of a clearly female human astronaut (Peggy Whitson) engaged in a space walk.



You can tell she's a female because of the enormous space compact she is using to check her monocle inside her helmet as the chain sometimes detaches from her snoopy cap, a fashion "don't".

WTF?! No heels or boob window? Who the gently caress designed that poo poo?

My imershunn!

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





CrazyLoon posted:

Oh god no! Beet's AV turning into that is greater punishment than any probie I could've gotten for not initially :nws: my post...

...please can you just stick to putting that in people's prob reason? :(

Someone bought it for me :shrug:. It would be rude not to sport it for a little while! Besides, it's extremely Star Citizen and I like it.

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."
I guess...it's just...those fuckin' goggles don't align with the eyes at all and that's more disturbing than the pic itself for some reason...

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
YOUTUBE: My Opinion of Star Citizen Refunders

If you have the time, the first 5 minutes are pretty interesting as he describes the new era of polarization around Star Citizen. The toxicity he’s experienced in his YouTube comments when criticizing the game, his great fear of being banned from the game if posting critical videos on Spectrum, “the Great Disappointment of 2016” (shorthand no doubt for “Chris Roberts”.)

Later, we hear game development started in 2015(!) and that he believes 5 more years should be sufficient time. With respect to refunders, he makes an analogy to buying a movie ticket, waiting until there’s only half an hour left and then saying you want a refund.

If the movie said it’d be a two hour sci-fi adventure and it turned into an 8 hour long gaffefest, you actually do have a refund case, dude.

If you don’t have time for the video, here is the punchline.

YouTube Comments posted:

The question of being banned worries me. What if I get banned after putting thousands of dollars into this game? It seems to me like not only the community, but also CIG itself does foster a kind of cultish attitude which seeks to silence and punish dissenters.

quote:

I can't really tell people not to go for a refund when basic features in the game don't work after 6yrs of dev. time. Haven't seen any decent leap forward with 3.1. The basic build should be in place and they should be polishing things up at this stage, instead they are still all over the place with more bugs than Bethesda. They really need to step it up in the next year.

quote:

"They're sick of EA and their MICROTRANSACTIONS"......Are you daft?! While I agree that EA is utter trash and a large part of that is how they want to milk money out of their consumers; you bring up microtransactions while DEFENDING STAR CITIZEN!? LOL. I guess you're right, Star Citizen doesn't have "Micro"transactions, they have "MASSIVE"transactions. You can spend 15k in real money on a "Ship pack"and not even get everything the game has to offer.......gently caress Star Citizen and their hilariously stupid monetary backing/pledge system... And you fools keep paying for a game that won't even be out in 5 years from NOW......meh.

quote:

Hmm is it unrealistic to expect to use the things you've paid for? You're getting good performance because half of the Citizens have no ships listed in the consoles so they aren't playing. lol.. I'm CLOSE to refunding my main account. I can't use any of it. 3.1 is a joke for 1/2 of us.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Apr 7, 2018

Frank_Leroux
Mar 24, 2018

Tarquinn posted:

WTF?! No heels or boob window? Who the gently caress designed that poo poo?

My imershunn!

I know, just take a gander at this pitifully designed uniform:



It's almost like it was supposed to 'cover your body' and poo poo.

Nanako the Narc
Sep 6, 2011

The Titanic posted:

You know I didn't want to tell people the truth about that. You're releasing girl secrets. You should probably go to your nearest kitchen and enter your secret refrigerator vac tube train to FemWorld for reconstitution. The Girlstapo has probably already seen your post and are swinging their sultry child bearing hips into motion as we speak!

There are too many secrets to keep track of, too many! There's the secret plan to ruin Incel's lives by denying them the sex they so obviously deserve, then there's the secret plan to ruin games by pretending to like them, where does it end?!?

Bring out the venus-symbol shaped guillotine, Girlstapo, I'm ready to face the music :smith:.

Mr Fronts
Jan 31, 2016

Yo! The Mafia supports you. But don't tell no one. Spread the word.

Tarquinn posted:

WTF?! No heels or boob window? Who the gently caress designed that poo poo?

My imershunn!

Here you go.

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

Ah yes, X:BoobWindow, a classic.

That said I still have hope for X4 because I'm retarded.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



big nipples big life posted:

Ah yes, X:BoobWindow, a classic.

That said I still have hope for X4 because I'm retarded.

apb engine update coming soon!!

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: My Opinion of Star Citizen Refunders

If you have the time, the first 5 minutes are pretty interesting as he describes the new era of polarization around Star Citizen. The toxicity he’s experienced in his YouTube comments when criticizing the game, his great fear of being banned from the game if posting critical videos on Spectrum, “the Great Disappointment of 2016” (shorthand no doubt for “Chris Roberts”.)

Later, we hear game development started in 2015(!) and that he believes 5 more years should be sufficient time. With respect to refunders, he makes an analogy to buying a movie ticket, waiting until there’s only half an hour left and then saying you want a refund.

If the movie said it’d be a two hour sci-fi adventure and it turned into an 8 hour long gaffefest, you actually do have a refund case, dude.

If you don’t have time for the video, here is the punchline.

GamerMax posted:

And I apologize if I created a refund spur. I really don't like the quality of the subs that attracted, it will really make me think twice before I do a video like that again. Ideally I'm not planning on doing a video like that again. Realistically speaking, CIG made pretty much all the necessary changes - we had a nice conversation off of YouTube - and I'm pretty well happy. I have no complaints about 3.1 fundamentally to its core design. My issues with 3.1 are all servers, and that's not really with 3.1 that's just with the servers in general. And I thank you for everyone that has supported this channel, I thank you for all of the new subs, I hope the toxicity of my channel dies down. It's been really out of control lately. I don't know what happened but when 3.0 came out, everyone just turned nasty. We have a lot of abusive fanboys which get angry at me because I'm not a big enough fanboy, and then all of the haters are now emboldened because 3.0 came out and now they're - you know - postin' fake refund links and treating me like an idiot for saying that Star Citizen is a good game and what not. It's generally just been pretty ugly. I get to the point where there's a couple videos that I don't even read the comments - or I skim through them because they've just been been so bad. So I hope things settle down.

Ah, here we see the real motivation behind this video. After 22 minutes of a rambling hodgepodge of all the usual excuses (how many different ways can you say "Things are just starting to get good for Star Citizen!" exactly?) and impassioned please to stick with the game, the rubber finally meets the road at the end. Refunders bad, fanboys toxic, please allow GamerMax back into the fold.

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

Daztek posted:

apb engine update coming soon!!

:saddowns:

the Terry Schiavo of video games.

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: My Opinion of Star Citizen Refunders

If you have the time, the first 5 minutes are pretty interesting as he describes the new era of polarization around Star Citizen. The toxicity he’s experienced in his YouTube comments when criticizing the game, his great fear of being banned from the game if posting critical videos on Spectrum, “the Great Disappointment of 2016” (shorthand no doubt for “Chris Roberts”.)

Later, we hear game development started in 2015(!) and that he believes 5 more years should be sufficient time. With respect to refunders, he makes an analogy to buying a movie ticket, waiting until there’s only half an hour left and then saying you want a refund.

If the movie said it’d be a two hour sci-fi adventure and it turned into an 8 hour long gaffefest, you actually do have a refund case, dude.

If you don’t have time for the video, here is the punchline.


Gamer Max:
REFUND! REFUND!

REEEE-FUUUUUNNNND!!!

And for all the people who said the gameplay in my last video was boring, THIS should be lot better. What we are doing is we are doing an emergency landing while under fire and missiles are flying at us, I wanted to see how fast I could LAND, and if I could get out before my ship was BLOWN UP.

So it was pretty exciting.

I took a BREAK after 3.0 was released, because game bugs and also because TOXICITY on this channel, I never really experienced anything like that before, and I was a little disappointed with how quickly people turned against me. Um... my REVIEWS have always been pretty favourable on this channel, minus a couple videos where I'd gone off the rails and I could understand it, but ever since 3.0 has come out, people have gotten very POLARISED when it comes to Star Citizen.

It's either been complete and total HATE and calling for REFUNDS, or the people that already love the game or defended it even more and CRUCIFYING anyone that isn't as glowing as they are and becoming ABUSIVE FANBOYS.

And it's been really hard to do YouTube videos, um... my motivation was really waning and so I decided to take a break after 3.0 and I did not play 3.0.1 at all, and I came back for 3.1 and largely I've been pretty impressed with what I've seen, I am ENJOYING 3.1, it's a much better experience, a lot of the bugs that really turned me off aren't there anymore...

(at this point in the video a spaceship is seen wibbly-wobbling around on its pad)

I see a lot more HOPE for Star Citizen and certain features are progressing much faster than I expected, it's very likely that we will have full ship persistence within a MONTH, at the latest by 3.2... completely blew me away to hear that, I didn't think ship persistence would be in the game until the end of this year. So that really says something. CIG is really pushing SERVER DEVELOPMENT and I... I... I read their comments on SPECTRUM, I've become a lot more active on SPECTRUM and I'm very ENCOURAGED by a lot of the things that I've heard CIG say. I was very impressed with this last CALLING ALL DEVS.

I've always had a FEAR with Star Citizen, I backed in 2014 and the more I've waited for the game the more I get worried... what if one day opinionated me said the wrong thing to the wrong person and I suddenly found myself getting permabanned from the game, or what if I run into a big in Star Citizen, I don't fully realise it's a bug, take advantage of it somehow and then get banned from Star Citizen permanently... I spent all this money all these years loving the game just to get thrown out of the game.

And I ran into some issues last year with some MODERATORS ON SPECTRUM and I didn't take too kindly to that. I tend to be very defensive when I feel unfairly targeted which is not good qualities for a YouTuber, I can tell you that much.

So I made this big long video targeting six policies on their forums, um... I decided that I didn't want to release my videos on SPECTRUM any more, mainly because I didn't want to have to CENSOR MYSELF to their terms of service, because if they're so easy to offend on SPECTRUM then my videos could end up very much offending them - and the WHOLE FEAR was getting BANNED FROM STAR CITIZEN.

But the IDEA of actually refunding the game, that never crossed my mind. I never once while I sat there and was doing that video and thought, 'I should get a refund, I should get all my money back and I should quit playing Star Citizen forever'. That to me would be HELL. I absolutely do not want a refund, I absolutely do not want to bail out of Star Citizen, I ADORE Star Citizen, it is without a doubt one of my favourite-ist games ever and I am legit having fun with 3.1, and I am not just saying that, you know, for views and likes on YouTube, I am legit having fun despite all the bugs, glitches and errors I think 3.1 is one of the best patches to Star Citizen ever.

I want to address the concept of refunds, I'm reading a lot of posts on SPECTRUM, I'm seeing a lot of it on YouTube, I have been for quite a while, and I don't agree with the idea of refunding Star Citizen at this point in development. I don't think it's ever going to become necessary to call for widespread refunds or boycotting anything to CIG, I really think they are making good progress in the game and I think that if you demand a refund right now you're a FOOL.

Because you are going to miss out on the BEST PARTS of the game.

I really FEEL that you're not seeing the BIG PICTURE, that you're not looking at it as a WHOLE. I don't say this as a FANBOY, I say this as a SERVER TECH.

Frank_Leroux
Mar 24, 2018

The Titanic posted:

I no joke think they need to get Charlie Chaplin videos and use him as the reference for proper human male movement and animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhHw60mqcMM

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Frank_Leroux posted:

I know, just take a gander at this pitifully designed uniform:



It's almost like it was supposed to 'cover your body' and poo poo.

I love the ladies of the IDF.

https://gfycat.com/LivelyCriminalBrahmancow
Bear themed far cry shenaningans

I’m gonna say that there is no job description/title ‘server tech’.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Beet Wagon posted:

Ah, here we see the real motivation behind this video. After 22 minutes of a rambling hodgepodge of all the usual excuses (how many different ways can you say "Things are just starting to get good for Star Citizen!" exactly?) and impassioned please to stick with the game, the rubber finally meets the road at the end. Refunders bad, fanboys toxic, please allow GamerMax back into the fold.

The guy's delusional on a lot of his points. Rambling heavily on points that don't even make sense.

I had it running in the background while reading some things, my attention was caught again at the end:

He said this was supposed to be a video about a gun, but he experienced a bug, lost his gun, and now he has no gun. Maybe next week.

He's approaching the point where FailureToReport was ~6 months ago before turning against SC and joining the forums.

SomethingJones
Mar 6, 2016

<3
That's a good catch G0rf and there's quite a bit to comment on there.

This is a genuine fan who cannot post his videos on Spectrum because he has come under fire from the Spectrum mods and fears being banned from the game entirely.

He took a break from the game after experiencing "hate" from those mocking the game (understandably and with good reason if you ask me) and "abusive fanboys" crucifying anyone not defending the game.

So he's getting it from the militant defenders, the spectrum mods, and everyone else. It's quite the quandry for someone who states his motivation as a sincere love for the project - and he says he has seen enough progress from 3.0 to 3.1 to keep him engaged and wanting to make more videos.

So what is he to do? Well the path of least resistance for a genuine fan is to make content that is not critical of the project - that's a path well trodden by the usual SC streamers and the worst that's going to happen there is Lando will jump on your stream and tell you not to use a particular word in case it upsets the Party. That gets the militant fanboys off your case, makes your content Spectrum friendly and you need only suffer the endless mocking and criticism that Star Citizen attracts outside of its fanbase.

That also means you are acting out of a FEAR for what CIG staff and the SC community will do, and not out of a LOVE for the project. This guy has talked about both his love for the game and his fear for the Spectrum mods and the 'abusive fanboys', and if you watch a little more of that video you can see clearly and with no doubt whatsoever which he has chosen to act upon - fear.

As the cracks in the project widen and deepen we're starting to see examples of how CIG are managing SC content creators - Lando jumping into a stream to censor the word 'sale' (and justifying it with a blatant lie) and now a YouTube content creator who expresses a fear that he'll be permanently banned from the game for expressing his opinion. Those are his words, I didn't make that up, look, I typed it all in, it's up there.

There's a hell of a distinction between being afraid of a torrent of abuse from fanboys in your comments and holding a fear that you'll be perma-banned from the game for expressing an opinion. What is so interesting to me in this video is that the guy has a foundation for that fear, it comes from interacting with the Spectrum mods.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Nicholas posted:

ill get back to you in a few months on that

Hired!

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Virtual Captain posted:

Chris on RtV said they have just under 70 people in QA. I don't know loving why when there are 2,000 nerds that would be willing to do it for free and imo theres not much point in a big QA dept when you're still in the prototype phase.

Pissing away 3 mill a year on QA to own the goons.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


Hav posted:

I love the ladies of the IDF.


Hm.



The Titanic posted:

This game was so good. Even outside of the crazy style it somehow all fit together and I loved it's insanity and style.

CIG hasn't a chance of ever meeting this game in style, substance, quality, and most importantly pure fun. This was one of the funnest games I played for a while.

:yeah:



Sarsapariller posted:

Reminder: this is what CIG promised mining would be, back when there was a ship sale at stake:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14522-Design-Notes-Mining

Lmao

So the planned gameplay is like:

Avoid crashing into the asteroid
Scan asteroid
Shoot manual missile at the asteroid to scan it more, high chance of failure
Shoot mining laser at asteroid, possible explosion
Read seismograph, possible explosion
Very hard tractor beam minigame to collect minerals
Refine minerals if you have a refinery, minerals have varying levels of refinement

And all with an npc crew with simulated motivations and proficiency. poo poo I just lost all that spacegold cause spaceman Kevin keeps leaving his post to smoke spaceweed and sext his husband

What will actually happen is you shoot a laser at a rock and you gain minerals, they'll say it's a placeholder and never improve it. Q2 2019 at the earliest.

My girlfriend who demands to be kept up to date thought it would be astronauts with pickaxes when I mentioned mining which sounds much more fun

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

The intended mining mechanic, as presented, also heavily implies voxels or voxel like characteristics for the deposits of mineable material.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Effort post on the topic of the old mining design note.

Let's see how far we get into this single simple mechanic before they've over-extended themselves.

quote:

[guff]
[guff]
[guff]
Mining presents players with a variety of challenges requiring skill and intelligence, whereas mindless repetition of a task and idle drudgery are explicitly avoided. There are no aspects of mining that allow a player to simply press a button and wait without concern for a result, or that require players to perform an action repeatedly without some element of thought and/or dexterity coming into play.
Ok. So it's supposed to be an active task. Actually, as they may clear further down, it will be five active tasks. This really tells us nothing other than that whatever gameplay this is supposed to generate, it must not be a click-button affair, which puts quite a burden on the developer and also means that everything has to go through the network guys to ensure that all these dexterity tests remain viable through proper update rates at all times…

quote:

Ample amounts of dangerous situations are afforded, despite the fact that combat isn’t inherent in any fundamental aspect of the effort. The most valuable materials will often reside deep within a dense field, the result of less experienced pilots being unable to extricate them without suffering serious damage to their ship. Compressed pockets of gas, volatile materials that can explode in the presence of excessive energy (which is required in some capacity in order to liberate the ore from its parent asteroid), and elements that can explode when subjected to seismic vibrations as caused by repeated fragmentation operations all present their own unique types of jeopardy. While most miners will seek to actively avoid armed conflict, the reality is that any ship carrying a cargo of valuable ore will present a tempting target to less scrupulous types, rewarding those players that formulate contingency plans in advance, whether that be the hiring of an NPC crew member extremely talented with a defense turret, or investing a portion of the expected profits into hiring an armed escort or two.
So in other words, to make mining work, the game has to:
  • Have asteroid fields of varying density (we'll set aside how laughably unrealistic this is, since real asteroid fields are so sparse you'd never be able to even see one asteroid when your next to another).
  • Have different composition as a function of local density.
    • Will composition also be a function of location – different systems have different stuff in them?
  • Have different component materials be differently valued.
    • How is this value determined? That’s a pretty huge tangent in and of itself…

      To have different values, the game has to:
      • Have a market where players can (at a minimum) sell things.
      • Have a UI for this market.
      • Preferably have some market dynamics to ensure there’s a reason to mine the low-value stuff too.
      …and/or…
      • Have a crafting system.
      • Have varying material requirements that put some materials at a premium.
      • Have a UI for this entire system.
      …and also
      • Have a reason why you need more money and/or crafted items.
        (i.e. what can you do with them that you can’t do without them?
  • Have part of the composition be dangerous.
    • Presumably, the dangerous component will be a function of the amount of high-value components?
  • Have different versions of “dangerous”.
    • Each danger needs a different trigger to activate.
  • Have a way for other players (and NPCs) to steal the mining yield.
    • Boarding?
    • Blowing the cargo hold open?
    • Scooping cargo?
  • Have a reason for other players (less so NPCs, they have no rationality) to steal the mining yield.
    • In other words, even a half-full hold of ore needs to be worth risking ship over.
    • If the ore is worth that much, why even chose pirating to begin with?
    • If it’s worth that much, and if the crafting route is chosen to give ore value, what does this mean in terms of the material cost of the equipment that is being crafted, and what does that in turn mean for the value of the materials themselves?
  • Be able to hire players and NPCs.
    • A UI for hiring and firing crew must exist.
    • A UI for assigning crew must exist.
    • A UI for directing crew must exist.
  • Have the value of ore be enough to cover these expenses.
    • Player time for escorts is particularly expensive.
      • How do you make it worth it for the miner to profit share?
      • The only way is to make it not to not profit share.
      • If the risk is so high that going alone is not worth it, only PvP:ers will want to do it.
      • Why would a PvP:er mine to begin with?!
    • Again, what does this value mean in terms of how much the resulting products cost?
  • AI for said NPC attackers and defenders.
…we’re just two paragraphs in…

quote:

Finally, multiple roles of substance are presented, each of which is referred to as a specialist. Every role can occupy the full attention of a player and present sufficient challenge to keep them engaged, or assigned to an NPC whose skills are commensurate with their monthly cost.
  • “Can” must be clarified since all other design decisions depend on it. Does it really mean “can” or does it mean “will”?
    • What is the benefit of occupying your full attention, if you can split it between different tasks?
  • NPC costs somehow need to be a function of the value of player time.
    • An index of player earning power needs to exist.
    • NPC hiring cost need ot be dynamic and a function of this index.
      • Earning power will vary immensely between players – some will not be able to hire help.
      • Means and methods to counteract manipulation of the index need to exist.

quote:

A trip to the local Trade and Development Division – the TDD – is often the first step on a prospective miner’s list. The TDD serves as a marketplace for the various commodities and other products available at a given location, and as such gives a good sense of what’s in demand and therefore which materials warrant the most attention in terms of obtaining the most attractive profit margins.
  • The aforementioned marketplace needs to have supply/demand dynamics.
    • A background sim and/or player dynamic needs to exist to create this dynamic.

quote:

When deciding upon a course of action, every miner has two basic options – working freelance or acting as an agent in the employ of another entity. Freelance miners elect which materials they want to procure and, after retrieval, set out to find the optimal trading port at which to unload them. While potentially the most lucrative, this approach exposes miners to the vagaries of the market, and if demand wanes during the acquisition of the materials the price eventually obtained might be insufficient to have warranted the effort and expense endured, especially if significant expenses were suffered in the form of costly NPC crew members having been utilized, fuel having been expended, or damage to the ship having occurred.

Miners working under contract for another entity remove most of the risk from their ledger, but in so doing often have to give up a significant portion of their cargo’s value in exchange for the benefit locking in a fixed price. Further, they risk a hit to their reputation if they are unable to procure the promised materials within the specified timeframe. The information gleaned from the TDD is of significant benefit in ascertaining whether the discount being offered is warranted by the security of a guaranteed contract.
  • Missions must exist.
  • Mining missions must exist as a subset.
    • These missions must (statistically, if not always absolutely) be worth less than regular mining.
      • They therefore cannot deal with regular ore because then, why bother? Just do the same thing freelance and earn more — at the ore values we have to have in order for the whole hiring/pirating thing to work, the price risk will be so utterly minute in relation to the risk of just losing the entire ship and its content that no amount of price lock-in can compensate.
      • This also makes them worthless for attackers who can't hand in the specialty ore, so the risk is gone, and payout needs to be lowered significantly to compensate.

These two paragraphs are just poorly though-through and backwards, indicative of someone who hasn't looked into how other games have done it and what dynamics various designs generate. The whole idea is simply incompatible with the dynamics they've envisioned in the previous paragraphs unless its all run in a strictly controlled single-playeresque environment. Really, they shouldn't be missions, as such, but large-scale fulfilment contracts that guarantee a specific, higher-than-market, return, but at the cost of being time restricted and rare. First come, first serve, and freelancing is the fall-back if you don't get it in time.

…or, alternatively, they give up on the earlier dynamics of needing to hire people to protect against pirates, and of needing multiple roles and functions to operate effectively.

quote:

Once a basic mining path – freelance or contract – has been decided upon a player must put some thought into how they wish to locate the sought-after materials. Asteroid fields containing ore of varying purity levels litter most star systems, but prior to a miner engaging their quantum drive and making haste to begin extracting value from the environment, they must gain knowledge of those fields.

To this end, every solar system contains a variety of information considered public knowledge, including the location of major asteroid fields. The entry-level miner often begins their career via heading towards such well-known sites, but as would be expected the most valuable materials in such fields have typically long since been extracted. The remaining ore of value is often spread so thinly throughout a vast field that its retrieval requires more time and effort than more advanced miners are willing to endure. Valuable new fields are occasionally located and made known to the public, often resulting in a dramatic increase in mining activity…and soon thereafter a drop in prices on those materials contained in ample quantity within the field as players rush to exploit the freely available resource.
  • Asteroid fields must (wholly unrealistically) be both known and available as something to be discovered.
    • Fields must (also) exist as temporary and dynamically spawned instances, or they will all be well-known within a matter of hours.
  • Ore should deplete from asteroid fields
    • Static fields are pointless as they will be immediately depleted and sparse.
    • Static fields should be removed from the design and just remain as functionless set decoration.
  • A discovery mechanic must exist to find new fields.
    • A discovery UI must exist.
    • A method of quickly estimating the value of a field (as a function of the ore market index) must exist.
  • Over-supplying the market should affect ore prices.

quote:

Alternatively, miners may elect to employ the services of an information broker who, for a price, will offer the locations of a variety of smaller fields unknown to the public. While more reputable brokers will truthfully report the type and quantity of materials to be found within a particular field, there are some who have been known to exaggerate the assets contained within a field whose location they are seeking to sell.
  • A broker market must exist.
    • A UI for broker interactions must exist.
  • Brokers of different quality must exist.
    • A method of determining quality must exist.
  • “Unknown” fields must exist.
    • The discovery mechanic must be limited and/or these fields must spawn dynamically on broker interaction.

quote:

The last and most time-consuming option – but also potentially the most lucrative for those able to master another discipline – in terms of finding an asteroid field to exploit is to simply act as a Pioneer and find your own. The Pioneer occupation specializes in the utilization of long range scanners and telemetry probes to scan huge swaths of space and find anomalies that warrant further investigation, with the end result that some turn out to be small fields of asteroids, occasionally with an attractive mix of valuable materials embedded within them. When acting in such capacity on your own – and not as an agent in the employ of another entity – the discovery of something remains known only to you. In such cases, you may elect to sell such information to a broker – with the price being dictated by the type and quantity of materials within the field, as well as the current market rates – who would then offer that information to others.
  • The discovery mechanic requires scanners and probes.
    • A scanning UI must exit.
    • A probing UI must exist.
    • Mechanics for (building?), selecting, equipping, launching, and directing probes must exist.
  • The broker market must be two-way.
  • An index of data value must exist.
    • The index must be a function of the available field value estimates.

quote:

This last option – finding your own asteroid fields – has one variation that we expect to see widely utilized. Organizations may automatically share private discoveries amongst themselves, such that finding an asteroid field – or a derelict spaceship that could be salvaged, or astronomical phenomena that might be studied by an aspiring scientist, and other such things – would result in its location immediately becoming known to others within that organization but remaining hidden from the rest of the public. Thus, we expect that many organizations will wind up having a very vertically oriented and complementary set of occupations represented within its ranks, such that it can effectively cut out the middle man in many wealth-generating transactions and retain more value for itself and its constituents.
  • Derelict spaceships must exist as dynamic instances.
  • Salvage must exist and have value.
  • “Astronomical phenomena” must exist (on a sub-system level?!) and have value.
    • Space science must exist.
  • The discovery mechanic must allow the above to be found and their value estimated.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

quote:

The mining occupation supports a variety of dedicated specialists, each of which has a critical role to play in the effort. As previously noted, one of the basic objectives in the design of the various occupations is breaking down large, complicated endeavors into a number of smaller jobs, each of which can test a dedicated player’s mettle in unique and interesting ways. This encourages but does not force players to act in concert with one another to accomplish larger tasks, as you’ll always have the option of simply doing it all yourself – however inefficient that might be – or, more likely, simply hiring NPC crew members to work alongside you. There’s a lot of thought and effort going into the hiring, evolution, simulation of motivations, and evaluation of such NPC crew members, but that’s a topic best left for another discussion.
  • The mining tasks must be both parallelisable and serialisable.
  • NPCs should evolve and have motivations.

quote:

The pilot, of course, navigates the ship. While this sounds straightforward, in practice it is often challenging as impacting an asteroid can seriously damage a player’s ship, and the asteroids with the most attractive resource compositions are often deep within a concentrated field. Pilots make the final call as to which individual asteroid warrants the most immediate attention, often choosing from an array of possible targets identified via the scanning process. They also determine whether to remain in a fixed position around an asteroid throughout the excavation process or to adopt a more active role, gradually rotating around a selected asteroid and thus giving the beam operator a better opportunity to find and extract valuable pockets of buried ore. Many asteroids are filled with dangerous materials that, under the right conditions, can blow the asteroid to pieces, increasing the value of a good pilot that can quickly navigate a ship to a safe distance even when the warning time is minimal.
  • Asteroid composition and extraction gameplay must be such that ship position matters.

quote:

The scan operator is responsible for injecting remote material analysis packages (RMAPs) into nearby asteroids that, upon success, immediately begin sending telemetry data back to the pilot and scan operator informing them as to the asteroid’s precise material composition. Depending upon the ship and its associated hardware, anywhere from several dozen to hundreds of RMAP-equipped manually guided missiles may reside upon a mining vessel.
  • Different “hardware” must exist that can hold different amounts of probes.
  • Missiles must allow manual guidance.
    • A UI for missile guidance must exist.
  • Material composition needs to be able to be visualised.
    • Probe data must be able to be sent to multiple recipients.

quote:

Upon selection of an asteroid, the center of mass is automatically calculated and the scan operator begins the process of gradually scanning for a suitable RMAP insertion point. This is a multi-faceted process involving a search for a section of surface geometry oriented such that its perpendicular traverses the center of mass or somewhere close to it. The operator receives feedback on the angular difference, but it’s ultimately their call as to whether a given site is good enough or not.

Once an insertion site has been selected, the location and optimal injection orientation are displayed, and the scan operator may launch an RMAP-equipped missile. The missile’s thrust and guidance system are manually controlled, with the objective being to impact the asteroid at the precise point and with the exact orientation dictated via the previous step. The distance from the computer-specified injection position, deviation from the optimal angle, base material of the asteroid, and final impact velocity ultimately determine whether an injection is successful or not.

[guff]
  • A raytracing solution for material composition must exist. For some reason.
    • This solution must be a function of the normal of the (tessellated sub-?)surface being scanned in relation to vector to the object origin. For some reason.
    • For this to be relevant and have any purpose, asteroid meshes need to be dynamically generated.
  • Similarly, collision points need to have per-surface precision and raytracing solutions calculated.

Exactly why this precision in selecting the insertion point is needed, and why it has to be in line with the centre of mass, is never explained… Nor is it explained what the scan operator will be doing while the ship is flying into position and while drilling is going on — it’s supposed to never be a dull moment, after all.

quote:

The beam operator is typically the second-in-command of a mining expedition. They are responsible for wielding the multi-megawatt mining beam generators affixed to one or more robotic arms near the front of the ship that fracture asteroids into digestible chunks. The beam operator has direct control over the output wattage, and is thus able to precisely control how much energy to dispense into a given area of an asteroid. This is critically important, as the injection of surplus energy into a volatile material can cause an explosive chain reaction to occur, with the total destructive force ultimately determined by the type and amount of reacting material. The beam equivalent of a sledgehammer, therefore, can be used to quickly excavate large quantities of inert materials, but a lower-wattage scalpel will be necessary when attempting to safely extricate those that may react violently in the presence of sufficient energy.
  • Lasers and (presumably) robot arms must offer player control.
    • A UI for laser control must exist.
    • A UI for arm control must exist.
  • The dynamic asteroid meshes must be able to be split into smaller (also dynamic) pieces.
  • Dangerous components must be identifiable in the UI.
  • Different methods for (not) triggering each type of danger must exist.

quote:

The Exothermic Reaction Detector is a status display on the beam operator’s control panel that detects the production of excess energy indicative of the fact that the mining beam is causing a chain reaction in some portion of the materials in close proximity to the beam. This information is presented to the operator in the form of a vertical bar graph plotted over time showing the probability per second of such a reaction growing out of control and consuming – often in a powerful burst of energy that can send huge, dangerous shards of the asteroid flying towards the player’s ship – all of the material in the nearby area.
  • No endothermic reactions and dangers can exist (even though they can be just as dangerous).
  • The danger mechanism is a matter of RNG.
  • Asteroid chunks must be susceptible to taking damage.

quote:

Every minable material has its own unique set of parameters dictating how much energy a given quantity can absorb, how quickly it can dissipate energy, how easily it can transfer excess energy to surrounding materials, its probability of fragmentation as energy levels reach critical levels, and numerous other things.
  • The meanings of ‘endothermic’ and ‘exothermic’ have to be redefined, in part to their exact opposites and in part to encompass the very thing they’re not.

quote:

The average size of the fragments carved from an asteroid as the result of a mining beam being utilized, then, depend upon the amount of wattage the beam is injecting into the body, as well as the type of materials into which the energy is being directed.
  • Asteroid subdivision must allow for a wide span of sizes.
  • Composition must be calculated on a per-(tessellated?-)surface basis.
    • In combination with the aforementioned raytracing requirement, asteroids must be voxel objects.

quote:

As fragments are torn asunder from the parent body, they generate seismic tremors that resonate throughout the asteroid and only gradually dissipate. Some volatile materials are sensitive to such vibrations, and as such minimizing the magnitude of any such tremors is often of considerable concern. This is complicated, however, by the fact that such tremors are modeled independently of one another, with the sum total displacement caused by the superposition of the waves constantly being applied against the various materials within the asteroid. Thus, even a series of small tremors can present a serious threat depending upon how the waves interfere with one another.
  • Each voxel interaction requires a whole-body physics simulation.

quote:

The Laser Seismometer shows each individual tremor within an asteroid, as well as the superposition of the various waves. It also shows the vibrational thresholds for any seismically sensitive materials contained within the asteroid, assuming that an RMAP has been successfully injected. Explosions that occur as the result of a seismic event are often considerably more dangerous than chain reactions that consume a quantity of material in a localized area because they will cause all such material within the entire asteroid to detonate, with the end result often being the complete destruction of the asteroid, and a pronounced danger to any mining ship unfortunate enough to be in close proximity at the time. Fortunately, such events are often telegraphed in advance via seismic activity growing progressively more erratic and tiny pockets of material prematurely detonating and causing the ejection of small sections of the asteroid into space.
  • The voxel physics simulation must be transmitted to the player.
    • A UI for the physics simulation must exist.
  • The voxel physics must be able to split off asteroid chunks.
  • Asteroid chunks must be more lethal most weapons.
    • A separate collision physics logic is needed to impart damage above and beyond what ships and stations generate.

quote:

Highly compressed pockets of gas buried within an asteroid present another distinct danger to a mining operation. Exposure of even a small portion of a gas pocket to the vacuum of space results in an immediate explosive decompression that can splinter nearby sections of the asteroid, send astronauts hurtling through space, and generate considerable seismic turbulence.
  • The voxel physics simulation must also be a fluid-dynamics simulation.
  • Gas jets must exist as a physics interaction event.

quote:

The mining beam is equipped with a high-energy scanning probe called the Analytical Materials Processor that provides constant feedback as to what type of materials lie beneath the surface – within range of the probe – in the specified direction. Each material identified is presented on a horizontal bar graph replete with information regarding the depth at which it can be found and the approximate quantity.
  • The probing UI and composition data must also be shared with the beam operator.

It is not explained what the beam operator will be doing while the ship is flying into position and while scanning is going on — it’s supposed to never be a dull moment, after all.

quote:

The cargo operator utilizes a console on the bridge of the ship that allows them to monitor a camera mounted within the forward-facing input port. From that vantage point the cargo operator can view the impact area of the mining beam, as well as the various asteroid fragments that are broken apart from the parent body and ejected out into space. The input port contains a powerful crusher that quickly reduces any incoming asteroid fragments to rubble and stores them in attached cargo modules for transport or, on ships with an integrated refinery, subsequent processing into their purified elemental forms.
  • Multiple viewport renders must exist.
  • Detachable cargo modules must exist.
  • Refinery modules must exist.

quote:

The cargo operator directs a targeting cursor towards fragments of interest, with an integrated Fragment Scanner – similar to the Analytical Materials Processor utilized by the beam operator – providing immediate feedback in regard to the fragment’s precise composition. In this manner, the operator is able to get a quick sense as to the relative value of the fragment, and whether it is worth attempting to guide it into the input port, or whether it contains so little of value that it’s best avoided so as to preserve precious cargo space or time-consuming refining effort. The Fragment Scanner also displays the object’s mass, trajectory, and velocity.
  • The probing interface has no real reason to exist since the composition scan and selection of materials is done by the cargo operator.
  • A camera control UI must exist.
  • Every asteroid fragment must be tracked (and transmitted to nearby players), including their (dynamic) mass.
  • Velocity is a vector – it already includes trajectory you loving retards.

quote:

The cargo operator controls attractor and repulsor beam generators typically mounted just within or outside the input port, and the magnitude of the force generated by each can be precisely controlled so as to allow for intricate modification and control of a fragment’s trajectory. The cargo operator’s display allows for a variable magnification zoom, which is necessary since attractive and repulsive forces are applied at the precise location denoted by the target cursor. Application of force to a fragment’s extremity, then, will typically result in generating a rotation on the object rather than any significant change in its direction. Thus, considerable skill – including the ability to quickly estimate an object’s approximate center of mass – is required in order to efficiently apply forces and guide fragments along the desired path.
  • Picking the middle of an object will be really difficult.
    • The variable zoom must be rather limited
  • Continuously applying force the the point of an object will somehow not quickly align the centre with that point
    • The rocket pendulum effect comes from the direction of thrust not being continuously directed along the desired path of travel — here, the push or pull is a constant, fixed direction that will dampen out the oscillations.
    • Physics must not apply in this universe
  • One-dimensional pushing and pulling will (somehow) intricately modify a trajectory in three dimensions.
    • Through hyperspatial magic, the other two dimensions will be affected as well.
    • Physics must not apply in this universe

Again, exactly what the cargo operator will be engaged with when there’s no drilling going on is not explained, but somehow it’s never a dull moment.

quote:

The position of refinery operator only exists on mining ships that contain an integrated refinery. Refineries allow raw ore to be gradually converted into their purified component forms, with the undesirable elements being ejected back out into space in the form of dust. Purified materials consume a small fraction of the storage space of their unrefined counterparts, which is of particular concern when dealing with low quality asteroid fields that possess valuable elements only in a highly diffused form, or when attempting to minimize the number of return trips back to a trading or storage facility. The refinery operator controls the routing of ore to a variety of specialized processing units, each of which has a different role to play in the separation of one material from another. Operator errors in the refinement process can cause sensitive equipment to fail, stalling the conversion process and costing valuable time until the affected item is replaced, typically with a surplus part stored in the ship’s inventory.
  • For some reason, you want to return to trade or store your haul before you’ve filled up a sizeable portion of your cargo hold.
    • You cannot keep mining until it’s full (otherwise, where would the concern be?)
    • Presumably, you also cannot refine during the long QD travels required by the game since, apparently, time is at such a premium that a small breakdown loses valuable amounts of it.
  • For some reason, in spite of knowing exactly what you pull in, you have to manually sort the crushed fragments as opposed to construct an automated processing flow like you would in Factorio, Minecraft, Fallout 4, EVE, Rimworld, etc etc etc.
  • Refineries must consist of many different components
    • Each component must have its own activity.
    • Each component can fail if the activity is done wrong.
    • Component replacement gameplay (and/or accompanying UI) must exist.

Essentially this is a role that sounds to be straight-up borrowed from the fish-head cutting section of What Remains of Edith Finch.

quote:

All of the aforementioned specialist positions may be helmed by either a player or an NPC, with more experienced NPCs performing their duties in superior fashion, but usually at the expense of demanding a higher monthly salary.
  • NPC costs must be higher than the player-time-value index.

The rest is just guff about how the market should operate like a market.

Slow_Moe
Feb 18, 2013

You've given this way more thought than CIG has

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Slow_Moe posted:

You've given this way more thought than CIG has

I was bored, ok?
Then I got angry.
Now I'm just stupid. I think the design must be contagious.
:negative:

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Viscous Soda
Apr 24, 2004

Tokamak posted:

It's going to be like WoW except instead of the ore going straight into your inventory, the ore vein will disappear and in its place will be a crate of ore.

Nah, that doesn't account for the FIDELITOUS step of finding the ore. I'm guessing they'll tack a "hot or cold" type mini-game to find the ore first.

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