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AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help

Percelus posted:

that is some really bad fanmade crysis machinima

I am either seeing that footage for the first time, or it is so bad that my mind purges everything about it no matter how many times I've actually watched it.

Probably the second thing . At least it's so terrible that it is funny, if you got a refund or are otherwise on the outside of this trainwreck.

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Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:



Xaerael posted:

Add it to this, whoever was the original maker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7IxCQqP4lE

Sad, but actually not bad in execution.

Protip: memorize a Chicago zip code and give it at the ticket counter to get a discount when visiting the Art Institute of Chicago. It is definitely worth a visit if you are close by.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


D_Smart posted:

LoD blog

I really love what you've done here and how you explained it. I'm a programmer so I have lots of respect for guys who can build stuff like this. Even really basic games are not easy to actually make, and I know people have little appreciation for it.

I think it's very cool that you've got a lot of thins CIG is trying to do ironed out already.

I think the biggest difference between you and CR is that you're a programmer and he's very much a thumb who wants to be an artist.

Every point you make is good, but it all requires programming talent. Something that CR has avoided since day 0 when he had CryTech make his own game demo (and could still barely handle it even then). Today is no different, and I feel like CR is in full time "obscure it with art!" type development where all the hard stuff is never dealt with or talked about, but hidden behind a layer of pretty.

You have the opposite, where there's lots of programming talent but not nearly the same quality of art. Though it looks like CIG is working hard at getting a convoluted flight system with lots of buttons. Probably not because of functionality but because that's all they can mod in to make a number change somewhere that will in turn do a thing for them.

In your "all they had to do" part, yes. They should have done all this, but I have this funny feeling they are still working with minimal or nonexistent tools, and still in the normal CryEngine/lumberyard level editor. Their lead programmer is a modder, which isn't bad but there's a pretty considerable difference between the act of modding a thing and actually creating a new thing from nothing.

I would not care though except for how many lies this project was built on, and how it propelled some really gross people way above their normal capabilities. I'd be happy if they just come clean with everybody.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


By the way, Derek, thank you for sharing your internal screens and development stuff. I know it's old but it's always exciting to see how somebody attacked a problem to solve it. It's very cool and I appreciate it. :)

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.


Whew!

So it took me awhile to read through all the comments about the chart on /Games. Though there were lots of crazed invocations of Derek Smart, demonizations of goons, and other overreactions, I did see a few fair criticisms that I've addressed in this latest update.

1). The inclusion of the reduction percentages was redundant. Fair enough. I deleted that.

2) Chris' quote didn't include his "I get shot for making promises but that's our goal" escape clause, the line that retroactively makes it all okay. So I included that, too.

3) I also added his mention of the 30 to 40 space stations that would be coming in 3.0. (We'll see how that turns out.)

4) I also fixed a graphical problem that had white boxes behind the Planet names in the Stanton layout.

So here's the latest version. If you're a DS lurker who feels like the last one was flawed or shortchanged Chris's quote, hopefully you might find this an improvement. I'm trying to be fair, even if stern.



I have to admit, lurking friends, some of your reactions were a little frustrating, given that I'd tried to avoid editorializing. The focus of the piece was timelines, quotes, and scopes for Star Systems in Alpha 3.0.

The accusations that the infographic was a part of some organized FUD campaign were especially ironic, given that some of you tried to preemptively trying to counter an anticipated Derek Smart tweet and in so doing ended up creating a non-paywalled source for the /Games OP to reference.


I didn't make the chart hoping for a /GAMES thread to blow up, or a MassivelyOP mention, or a psychodrama to unfold on /DS. I made it for my friends here on the forum, most of whom I haven't interacted with in a year, because organizing historical facts is something I like to do. It's clear to us by now that Chris Roberts doesn't learn from history because he keeps repeating it, so we keep discussing it, yet what I don't understand is why you keep defending it?

Surely I have my own biases, as do we all, but why rage about what strangers think on some random forum? Your recurring tendency to discount the observable past while exaggerating the imagined future produces the present tensions that discomfit you so. The relief you seek yet can't find won't come from excoriating random nobodies for discussing their opinions about troubling development issues or deceptive sales tactics. You are the publisher. The ones to whom pledges have been made for accountability and openness. You're intellectually and emotionally malnourished from the parody of it served up by a guy who believes himself accountable to no one and above all reproach. A man who hasn't once in the entire history of this project ever apologized for anything despite having either intentionally or inadvertently mislead you about matters of genuine consequence for years.

You deserve better than to be full-time apologists for that. I sincerely believe that --- why don't you?

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014



I forgot about this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1d5z5j/im_chris_roberts_creator_of_wing_commander_and/

Chris Roberts did an AMA on reddit

Mr.Tophat
Apr 7, 2007

You clearly don't understand joke development :justpost:

Truly excellent work Gorf

Drunk Theory
Aug 20, 2016




Oven Wrangler

G0RF posted:

I didn't make the chart hoping for a /GAMES thread to blow up, or a MassivelyOP mention, or a psychodrama to unfold on /DS. I made it for my friends here on the forum, most of whom I haven't interacted with in a year, because organizing historical facts is something I like to do. It's clear to us by now that Chris Roberts doesn't learn from history because he keeps repeating it, so we keep discussing it, yet what I don't understand is why you keep defending it?

And that's why we love your work. You can cause a shitstorm with a nice graphic and a post. It's so great.

Just think, Derek gets the same reaction but he has to write and post the July blog everywhere to do it.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini




Clapping Larry

"GOD drat PUBLISHERS I HATE THEM ALL" - They shout as they slowly shrink into an ironclad TOS

thatguy
Feb 5, 2003


G0RF posted:

I didn't make the chart hoping for a /GAMES thread to blow up, or a MassivelyOP mention, or a psychodrama to unfold on /DS. I made it for my friends here on the forum, most of whom I haven't interacted with in a year, because organizing historical facts is something I like to do. It's clear to us by now that Chris Roberts doesn't learn from history because he keeps repeating it, so we keep discussing it, yet what I don't understand is why you keep defending it?

Surely I have my own biases, as do we all, but why rage about what strangers think on some random forum? Your recurring tendency to discount the observable past while exaggerating the imagined future produces the present tensions that discomfit you so. The relief you seek yet can't find won't come from excoriating random nobodies for discussing their opinions about troubling development issues or deceptive sales tactics. You are the publisher. The ones to whom pledges have been made for accountability and openness. You're intellectually and emotionally malnourished from the parody of it served up by a guy who believes himself accountable to no one and above all reproach. A man who hasn't once in the entire history of this project ever apologized for anything despite having either intentionally or inadvertently mislead you about matters of genuine consequence for years.

You deserve better than to be full-time apologists for that. I sincerely believe that --- why don't you?
I think since you left you've lost your reference to just how crazy the people in r/ds and r/sc have become. "There's always more and it's always worse" has been in effect for years now and it still holds true factual.

HKS
Jan 31, 2005



The citizens will never stand up for themselves because they are weak babies who prefer a virtual life, their real life sucks and they have no power of any kind. They think if they speak and sound like a 'logical' or 'smart' person nobody can see through it. They have not even grown up past the stage in their life when a person realizes that all intentions behind words and actions are easily seen by another who is not blind.

They think the inner world is separate and cannot be known, thus they take people's words at face value except when they don't agree with it.

The inner world is always known, across any peoples and includes animals. We are psychic beings denying our full reality. Everyone can read intentions except citizens. It is very sad.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014



quote:

On the Penny Arcade article - there is always going to be people that focus on the negative / try and pull you down. Its a fact of life. Its also an old article that doesn't reflect the excitement and enthusiasm shown by the majority of the press towards Star Citizen.

What's disappointing about the article is that there was no attempt to get in touch, nor did the person who wrote it see anything other than the Gamespot live feed. There was a reason why all the other articles were so effusive. I visited a large amount of the gaming press and sat down with them one on one and gave them a demo. Which is the thing that frustrates me. I'm the only "track record" developer that has actually shown a working prototype - everything else has been either trust me I'll make a good game, or here is some concept art. That's not a knock on anyone as I know Tim, Jordan, Brian personally and I know they will deliver. I just hoped that by working for a year and putting together something that impressed not just on a crowd funding level but also compared to other AAA games that the naysayers could see that my vision was more than just rhetoric.

I've built versions of the game Star Citizen promises to be multiple times and I'm uniquely positioned to know the risks and challenges in achieving Star Citizen. Its not going to be easy. I'm sure some things will not work out the way I intend, and there will be some things that I never envisioned that become awesome features. That is always the way of development. I've spent a year doing the research and prototyping. I have a plan on how to achieve what I've laid out. I wouldn't have gotten on stage at GDC Online if I didn't think I could build Star Citizen. It may take a little longer than 24 months to deliver all the features (as precision on development timelines is always tricky this far out), but whatever happens, you as the backers will get to see the dev team's progress, play early builds and have an insight into high end development like never before!


--CHRIS ROBERTS in October of 2012.


https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3511398&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=11#post408863495

Crazy_BlackParrot
Feb 1, 2016

Christ Roberts is way better than toilet lord...
:gary: :lesnick: :yarg:
:pgabz: :fuzzknot: :eonwe:
:wtchris:


Drunk Theory posted:

And that's why we love your work. You can cause a shitstorm with a nice graphic and a post. It's so great.

Just think, Derek gets the same reaction but he has to write and post the July blog everywhere to do it.

Maybe the internet warlord might lose his title? :colbert:

MilesK
Nov 5, 2015



https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/25/star-citizens-biggest-goal-yet-a-procedural-gen-team/

Chris in February 25th 2014: "This stretch goal will allocate funding for Cloud Imperium to develop procedural generation technology for future iterations of Star Citizen. Advanced procedural generation will be necessary for creating entire planets worth of exploration and development content. A special strike team of procedural generation-oriented developers will be assembled to make this technology a reality."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0-QE4UgR4U&t=277s

Brian Chambers explaining how 3 years later, one developer made the first 3.0 demo by himself, in his spare time, refusing to tell Chris.

DapperDon
Sep 7, 2016


G0RF posted:

Whew!

So it took me awhile to read through all the comments about the chart on /Games. Though there were lots of crazed invocations of Derek Smart, demonizations of goons, and other overreactions, I did see a few fair criticisms that I've addressed in this latest update.

1). The inclusion of the reduction percentages was redundant. Fair enough. I deleted that.

2) Chris' quote didn't include his "I get shot for making promises but that's our goal" escape clause, the line that retroactively makes it all okay. So I included that, too.

3) I also added his mention of the 30 to 40 space stations that would be coming in 3.0. (We'll see how that turns out.)

4) I also fixed a graphical problem that had white boxes behind the Planet names in the Stanton layout.

So here's the latest version. If you're a DS lurker who feels like the last one was flawed or shortchanged Chris's quote, hopefully you might find this an improvement. I'm trying to be fair, even if stern.



I have to admit, lurking friends, some of your reactions were a little frustrating, given that I'd tried to avoid editorializing. The focus of the piece was timelines, quotes, and scopes for Star Systems in Alpha 3.0.

The accusations that the infographic was a part of some organized FUD campaign were especially ironic, given that some of you tried to preemptively trying to counter an anticipated Derek Smart tweet and in so doing ended up creating a non-paywalled source for the /Games OP to reference.


I didn't make the chart hoping for a /GAMES thread to blow up, or a MassivelyOP mention, or a psychodrama to unfold on /DS. I made it for my friends here on the forum, most of whom I haven't interacted with in a year, because organizing historical facts is something I like to do. It's clear to us by now that Chris Roberts doesn't learn from history because he keeps repeating it, so we keep discussing it, yet what I don't understand is why you keep defending it?

Surely I have my own biases, as do we all, but why rage about what strangers think on some random forum? Your recurring tendency to discount the observable past while exaggerating the imagined future produces the present tensions that discomfit you so. The relief you seek yet can't find won't come from excoriating random nobodies for discussing their opinions about troubling development issues or deceptive sales tactics. You are the publisher. The ones to whom pledges have been made for accountability and openness. You're intellectually and emotionally malnourished from the parody of it served up by a guy who believes himself accountable to no one and above all reproach. A man who hasn't once in the entire history of this project ever apologized for anything despite having either intentionally or inadvertently mislead you about matters of genuine consequence for years.

You deserve better than to be full-time apologists for that. I sincerely believe that --- why don't you?

This is the kind of post one just sits back after reading and does some serious contemplation. Glad to have you back Gorf.

Crazy_BlackParrot
Feb 1, 2016

Christ Roberts is way better than toilet lord...
:gary: :lesnick: :yarg:
:pgabz: :fuzzknot: :eonwe:
:wtchris:


MilesK posted:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/25/star-citizens-biggest-goal-yet-a-procedural-gen-team/

Chris in February 25th 2014: "This stretch goal will allocate funding for Cloud Imperium to develop procedural generation technology for future iterations of Star Citizen. Advanced procedural generation will be necessary for creating entire planets worth of exploration and development content. A special strike team of procedural generation-oriented developers will be assembled to make this technology a reality."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0-QE4UgR4U&t=277s

Brian Chambers explaining how 3 years later, one developer made the first 3.0 demo by himself, in his spare time, refusing to tell Chris.

I had forgotten this one, this just kinda explains cig tho?

150 mil, 300 employees, 5 years later the game is a mess. and one.. ONE dude pulled a "buy in" hail mary on his own in his free time.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004


Exciting Lemon


Yes but full production didn't begin until 2013. So there.

Mostly Dead
Aug 8, 2007



I think that in the timeline, you have Citizencon 2016 labeled as Citizencon 2017.

DapperDon
Sep 7, 2016


Crazy_BlackParrot posted:

Maybe the internet warlord might lose his title? :colbert:

Wew lad.

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016




Penny Arcade called it!!

Also :lol: at Croblers stating he'd already made multiple versions of SC, even way back then when it was 0.1% of the promises. :D

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:




Amazing work.

If this here forum of goonery was an Atlas stumbling around in the Battletech universe, you are the AC20 to finish the job.

Kromlech
Jun 28, 2017

by FactsAreUseless


G0RF, you're the hero we deserve. Thank you for this fresh batch of delicious, tear-filled drama.

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011



Soiled Meat


I just realized that's supposed to be Sandi on the left. No wonder that clip has never been seen again.

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016



Crazy_BlackParrot posted:

I had forgotten this one, this just kinda explains cig tho?

150 mil, 300 employees, 5 years later the game is a mess. and one.. ONE dude pulled a "buy in" hail mary on his own in his free time.

Wasn't it also 'one guy' who was messing around with getting VR to work too?

He left afaik. :D

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014



Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Yes but full production didn't begin until 2013. So there.

That old thread, man.

Sheesh. The voices calling for calm in 2012 were few, but they were there.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015







"Owned by G0RF: A Star Citizen's Story"

Goddamn, dude. I'm glad you're back.

Theotus
Nov 7, 2014



G0RF for OP. DOWN WITH DEREK SMART!!!!

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

G0RF posted:

You deserve better than to be full-time apologists for that. I sincerely believe that --- why don't you?

Nice CTA. Now will they eventually demand accountability from Roberts like they should, or bang out more words about how you're Old School Commander in a Derek mask?

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015







Meridian posted:

G0RF for OP. DOWN WITH DEREK SMART!!!!

(Beer is this thread's OP)

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011



Sabreseven posted:

Penny Arcade called it!!

Also :lol: at Croblers stating he'd already made multiple versions of SC, even way back then when it was 0.1% of the promises. :D

I kind of love that it seems like, from following the link, that the article has been deleted.

Theotus
Nov 7, 2014



Beet Wagon posted:

(Beer is this thread's OP)

:thejoke:

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014



Beet Wagon posted:

(Beer is this thread's OP)

Have you not been reading reddit? Beer is Derek (and so are you!).

HKS
Jan 31, 2005



I just want to hear the rationalization from any one of you who bought the game post pets stretch goal.

Like what was it?

"It's in wow so I guess its okay."

"they'll get to it after they make all the other parts, it'll be fine."

like...what the gently caress for real.

Theotus
Nov 7, 2014



spacetoaster posted:

Have you not been reading reddit? Beer is Derek (and so are you!).

Spacetoaster gets it. drat goons.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Percelus posted:

since 3.0 is poo poo and probably not even coming out before gamescon, what do people think the 'big reveal' feature will be that they show in a trailer but obviously will never be ingame. this years sandworm or vanduul battleship trailer so to speak

My prediction is going to be jump points to other systems. :)

Possibly even some reuse of that lightning filled tunnel so that players can feel like they're being born again and some can say they've seen the inside of a vagina from their space ships.

Also at this point CR will be wearing all black and start to do a hip thrust motion while crying "Just do it!" with a nasally "uhehehe" giggle as his cinematography captures the money yet again.

Strangler 42
Jan 8, 2007

SHAVE IT ALL OFF
ALL OF IT


spacetoaster posted:

Have you not been reading reddit? Beer is Derek (and so are you!).

I am Smarticus (according to everyone on r/starcitizen)

Kromlech
Jun 28, 2017

by FactsAreUseless


HKS posted:

I just want to hear the rationalization from any one of you who bought the game post pets stretch goal.

Like what was it?

"It's in wow so I guess its okay."

"they'll get to it after they make all the other parts, it'll be fine."

like...what the gently caress for real.
Not sure if that's me since i kickstarted, but SWG's creature handler was pretty fun. Why do you hate pets? Immersion breaker? They're too much work to implement for devs? As compared to what ?

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011



Soiled Meat

So then the whole 258 million actual spending was just a bluff as usual?

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao


Meridian posted:

G0RF for OP. DOWN WITH DEREK SMART!!!!

Go home Stimsis, you're drunk

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HKS
Jan 31, 2005



Nah my pet in Torchlight was the best. I just saw it as the first huge red flag that the project had no real direction.

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