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doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
A few years ago, the National Fraud Authority published an overview of scams and fraud. My favorite part is the bit about victims of fraud.

The UK Government posted:



The first observation of note is that there are many ‘unknowing’ victims of fraud. Such is the nature of some frauds many fall for them and unless contacted by a law enforcement agency would never know they have been defrauded. The best examples of these are some of the lottery and fake charity scams. Many people enter lotteries knowing winning is unlikely. Therefore, not receiving a prize is not an indication of fraud to them. Similarly, some people who give to charities may never learn it was in fact a scam.

Most scams, however, do eventually result in the victim finding out and ‘knowing’. These can be divided between those who report and those who don’t. Some of the reasons for non-reporting will be considered later in this section. There are also, however, the ‘unbelieving’ victims who are so taken in by a scam they will not believe it is one. For example the researchers were informed of some victims of investment frauds who were told at the point of payment by their financial institutions that it was a scam, but who thought they were merely frustrating their chances of making a ‘killing’ on an investment. These and many victims of mass marketing fraud have been termed what is known as ‘chronic victims’, responding to multiple requests by the scammers.

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doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

The UK Government posted:

Operating in a Legal Hinterland

Many of the frauds operate in a legal hinterland where the tactics they use make it difficult to unambiguously identify it as fraud. This makes some ‘victims’ adamant that they are not victims of fraud; others, even though they recognise it probably was a fraud, are less likely to report it because of the perceived ambiguity ; and another group who may be conscious it is a fraud, want to report it, but because of the ambiguity face a law enforcement community unwilling to take it on or passing it on to other agencies. For example, some lotteries do pay out prizes and consequently the reaction of many police forces who receive complaints is that it is a ‘civil matter ’ between the victim and lottery. Some scams also have very small print contradicting the main message of the scam. Fraudsters play on this and even if the law enforcement community does become interested they claim the dispute is a civil matter and of no interest to the police (Shover et al, 2003).

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
Am I reading this right?

They've taken in more than $6,000 in the past two hours?

They take in $25,000-$50,000/DAY?

$900,000 is a LOW month?

They took in $7,750,000 in November 2016?

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
Edited clips from the PC Gamer Panel. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=27S1bBuBpd4

These answers are incredible. Every question results in an answer that spirals out into dreams of wild impressions that when you think about it would be TERRIBLE design.

How will you meet up with your friends?

"Well we don't want people to be able to travel too fast to meet up with one another because fast travel would mess up other systems but the way we are making things is that every system will be unique and different and we want the journey to be the destination and you might find yourself stuck in one solar system for a month because of all the stories you get involved with there."

So the answer to how will I meet my friends is "you won't but that'll be fun.".

Later they talk about how once you do get a crew together you'll all go to sleep and wake up in the ship which sounds cool but actually leaves you hosed/drifting in space if your friends aren't around when you want to play one day.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

The main problem with Desert Bus is that you can't get up and walk around the bus when the engine overheats.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
They may be light touch but you can hardly argue that CIG is bad at community management. At this point the game is basically defined by its rabid community and their willingness to spend money, defend every aspect of the game and development cycle, spend money, dream big, rationalize each setback and delay, spend money.

An ethical community manager would be like.

"cool it guys, we have plenty of money"

"maybe spend some time with your loved ones instead of buying more ships"

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

PBS is a nonprofit corporation. CIG is not.

Mr Rogers testifies before Congress but for space jpgs.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
if you look closely those cakes have a 123rf watermark on them

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Normal guy. Normal flight.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Lladre posted:

Their lore people are complete poo poo.
Hey guys it's a 200 year old design but it's still better than anything we currently have...

Hey, write what you know.

To a lore writer working in the CIG offices, interminable development cycles with not much to show for it is the most realistic sci-fi space engineering timeline imaginable.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
The next stage in crowd funding is to allow the crowd to individually fund the roles that they think the game needs. By allowing artists/programmers to sell the ships, they are cutting out the expensive middle man who sets up salaries/does HR and other publisher-like administration that simply sucks the creative life out of a project.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
A lot of CIG fund tracking truthers ITT and the core argument for the conspiracy is "SURELY, no one is still that stupid and has money to burn?" It's an argument from incredulity.

But looking at pastes like

I don't find it hard to believe at all.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

The game is basically finished but because of the unfaithfulness of the UNBELIEVERS our savior Roberts in his mercy and wisdom has withheld it until such a time as the world can be brought to enlightenment. The game will be finished when we're ready and we are not ready.

Still your tongues of complaints and lies. Can't you see that you are only delaying things for everyone? I have seen thing you wouldn't believe. I have been to the Fourth Stimpire. I have tasted the flesh. Hush now. Remove your tongues. Come, let me show you the light, let it change you as it has changed me.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
I cannot share with you the pure sublime pleasures of the Fourth Stimpire because of the NDA

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Wuxi posted:

Wait, what are they talking about?

When people make mute points.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

D_Smart posted:

So who caught today's AtV? FF to 8:28

https://youtu.be/c_v-hMu_h5s?t=8m28s


I haven't stopped laughing.

What Derek fails to disclose here is that the next scene after they say they are looking to find ways to integrate all their animations into the game—the example they picked from 'hundreds' of cool animations—is dudes sitting at a picnic table.





D_Smart posted:

LOL!! I hardly watch that tripe. The guys post the juicy bits on my Discord channel. I click. Watch. Laugh my rear end off. Then go share it. :grin:

You are posting on a thread in a forum dedicated to talking about and sharing the marvelous content developed and released by CIG Games. You do not need to pretend you are too cool for it.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

This is a good Harlem Shake video.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
Amazon hitching Lumberyard PR to Star Citizen is such a puzzling move if it's real. I can see how to the general gaming public who isn't paying much attention, Star Citizen seems like a cool dream high prestige project. But in the game-production world I would guess opinions range more from "haha holy poo poo that project is a boondoggle" to "gently caress those guys for getting $1xx million on the power of dreams, I can barely keep my studio afloat". That does not seem like the right attributes for a brand ambassador.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Sappo569 posted:

Remember that dude in his like 80s that does nothing but play with his marble machine he built and has obsessed over since he was 12, while his wife does house duties and wonders if she can murder him in his sleep ?


https://youtu.be/C4mKwmvV3a8

Holyshit. I expected that an obsessed guy working on marbles for his whole life would end up with some kind of elaborate marble castle. But no, he just really likes staring at marbles.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

This is like when they put happy music on the trailer for The Shining

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
I don't think people should be too surprised by a hunger for mundanity in spaaaaace. Games like The Sims and Stardew Valley are among the most successful games of the past decade. Maybe more to the point, most MMOs with any kind of reasonable economy have a crafting component and there are players who enjoying doing only that (Merchant/Crafting guilds in ESO, the entire mining-industry-market chain in EVE online).

If you want "I am the chosen one" gameplay, you're already pretty well served by the marketplace. There are a lot of games that want to tell you the story of how you started with very small numbers and then over time and repetitive action grew those to very large numbers so that you could take on an end boss who was a threat to the world.

But if you want "I am the chosen one" gameplay, MMOs are not for you. Whenever they try to deliver that experience, it quickly becomes apparent that despite what the NPCs tell you, your actions have no effect on the world. Bosses respawn. Towns that you save remain in peril, awaiting the next adventurer to save them.

The ones where your actions do matter require you to become a cog in a machine. Maybe you are a combat cog, maybe you are a trader cog, whatever. The highs and lows of winning and losing big fights in EVE for example, are intimately tied to the hours and hours of tedious effort that was required to build and deploy all the now-destroyed ships.


It's pretty clear from the Star Citizen backers posting their fantasies about mundanity that what they want to do is recreate a full cinematic experience. They want the highs of combat but also the intimate character driven moments in a cafeteria. After all, some of the best moments in Firefly or Aliens or whatever happen in the mess hall.

The problem they are going to face is that they have no taste or sense of narrative flow. I've known lots of nerds who wanted to spend hours and hours working through the mundane details of a story universe. Much of the work of fandom is being collective Tolkeins working through details and characters that were never meant to be anything other than set decoration in an effort to develop a coherent storyworld where non existed.

They don't realize that the reason cafeteria scenes work in movies is that you have jump cuts where the director only shows you the interesting parts of being around the dinner table not all of it. They think that if those scenes work, then surely extended cuts of those scenes would be amazing.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

I'm not saying I'm a hard drinker. I am saying I've had nightmares like this.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Virtual Captain posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chPAUXBbvhI
I feel grief because this would only get funnier if lasers started chasing ships around :negative:

In the Fourth Stimpire, all missile guidance systems are run through the still living brains of yappy dogs.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Quavers posted:

What is the unsolved problem? The description doesn't say. Why is "hidden" match-making an issue? EVE doesn't have match-making, so have they already solved the unsolved problem?

I don't 100% know what they mean by 'hidden' match-making but EVE's set of mechanics involve hierarchies of star systems and then the incredibly complex mechanics of grids to subdivide the player base with the fallback of time dilation for when there are fights that just NEED to happen with thousands of people (and even then the servers strain and you get weird situations like people in totally empty systems experiencing TiDi because some other system running on the same server blade got crammed full of people).

This old PDF describing how knowledgeable players can manipulate the grids of EVE space gives a glimpse into the kind of insane complexity required to create the illusion of continuous space.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

DarkRefreshment posted:

New schedule is out. I am preparing my disappointment

Every time I see Citizens readjusting their expectations I keep thinking about the Great Disappointment. That's when a bunch of people believed that Jesus would come back on October 22, 1844. They were CERTAIN of it, many people got rid of all their possessions as they wouldn't need them anymore etc. But then the date foretold rolls around and nothing special happens and all these people have to deal with the fallout of having their utterly sincerely held beliefs demonstrably crushed.

It turns out, people are surprisingly good at rolling with this kind of punch without needing to give up much in the way of their fool ideas.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

The Titanic posted:

If I exhibited this sort of "optimistic charm" in my job, I would need a new job. :(

I think people need to ask themselves if this is the sort of charm that gets a job done, or if it's the sort of charm that would get somebody fired.

Your hidden premise here is that "the way most people run companies is a good way to make the best game ever made and so the people making the best game ever made should be held to those standards." I think citizens would dispute that premise. I mean their whole deal is "the way people have made games have resulted in mediocre garbage because things that exist with design decisions and real technical trade-offs can't possibly compare to the Star Citizen that I hold in my dreams."

Therefore, following ordinary development practices is the path to disappointment. Therefore whatever Chris is doing must be right if we just fund him long enough to see this through. :eng101:

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
A lot of kids at school are starting to get really mean about the club house. They keep saying that it's not coming out just because it's taken so long. These kids are real jerks about it, so they must be wrong. They're just jealous because they aren't their own club houses won't be nearly as good. One guy has a finished club house but it doesn't even have rocket pods, and it smells like creosote.

I'm writing down everything they say so when this is over and the clubhouse is done, we can show all the mean things they said to the Vice Principal and boy are they gonna get it then.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Septic Tank Gulag posted:

Let's make this a thing. I'll start:

"Being a Star Citizen, I can fully understand $2,500 pre-orders"

Being a Star Citizen, I am unable to distinguish between intention and action, so this is already a thing.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
Star Citizen has been released.

It's a F2P massively multiplayer text&jpeg-based fantasy adventure with a healthy whale population and a rich metagame.

Something Awful dot com is one of its instanced private servers.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
The in-game economy is kind of a mess though.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Ubik_Lives posted:

I have a question for finance goons. Let’s assume that this is indeed a loan the size of their tax return, that’s there to see them to the ‘cons. Their tax return is collateral for the base amount, and everything else F42 owns covers the interest.

But what happens when F42 gets the tax return? It’s sixty days between a default and the bank clearing you out. That’s more than enough time to spend that money. If CIG is still failing at that point, what incentive is there to pay off the loan over keeping the plates spinning for two more months, and what protections does the bank have against this?

This is a non-laywer, I have only worked in North America but I have been involved in setting up small corporations answer… So generally you set up corporations to prevent employees, officers, the board of the corporation, and shareholders for being personally liable for the doings of the business. They have limited liability. However, in the event that the company does go under and the creditors think there was some malfeasance, they can sue to pierce the corporate veil and go after the shareholders etc. So if your scenario played out, it would depend on *how* CIG was spending the money. If they were paying it to keep the corporation going, to continue work, and drum up more pledges, then not a lot. That's the risk a bank takes when it give out a loan. If they could argue that the money had been withdrawn illegitimately, they might go after the officers who took the money out of the company.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

thatguy posted:

If you're new I know you're going to read that and think it's just another ironic Goon post that couldn't possibly be true but you'll learn to kick that instinct shortly.

I… I really did think it was another ironic Goon post. But it really isn't.

Am I reading this right, that the artificial gravity mechanics were developed by some kind of crowd-consulting system?

no really this is real posted:

Wow. We are impressed! It looks like the topic of gravity really drew all the backers together.

We culled through the list, highlighting some of the concepts that we thought worked best, and then sat down with Lead Technical Designer Dan Tracy to come up with a working unified Artificial Gravity theory.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
The more I think about liquid gravity the funnier it becomes.

Especially with the persistent rumours that there's secretly CryEngine water everywhere in the Star Citizen space.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Now that 3.0 is just around the corner, it's probably time to revisit the dream of a non-aggression treaty.

Space peace in our time.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Foo Diddley posted:

Will we be able to pump gravity goo to different parts of the ship in order to compensate for an unbalanced cargo hold?

Same question.


All told, that explanation of cargo is the first mechanics I've seen described where I think "yeah, that's actually implementable".

You have a cargo stacking mini game and then when it's done the game gives your efforts a rating which is abstracted away to how much "effort" the ship's systems have to expend to compensate for your idiot box placement to get the same flight behaviour as you'd normally have (except maybe acceleration and deceleration) which can be expressed as a fuel efficiency modifier.

*Why* you would want a cargo stacking mini game based on one of the harder properties of the physical world to communicate through a computer screen (weight) is a whole separate question. But as described, this could actually be done.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013
Leaked 3.0 dev build screen shot, showing cargo hold gameplay for an unfortunate Commando whose ship has suffered damage to the gravity goo circulation piping.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

The Rabbi T. White posted:

LET THE DISAPPOINTMENT COMMENCE!

e: wait, what... Evocati is at 3.0, but it is not open to people in Evocati? That is an amazing new level of subterfuge, even for CGI standards.

no one called this

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

"'I told you so,' should be part of the sales pitch."

Oh it is.

Stop giving us money and Derek Smart will be able to say "I told you so."
But if you give us enough money then YOU will be able to say "I told you so."

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doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013

Today is the day I learned that there is a lively debate in the Star Citizen community about whether you should be able to see out of the ships or not. Maybe you should just fly by HUD and console elements, no views needed because that wouldn't be realistic.

This is glorious given all the graphics work.

My new proposal is that Star Citizen should just implement Duskers.

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