Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

BobHoward posted:

My friend, have you ever heard the name of our lord and savior CARL MARK FORCE IV?

the redditor's almost certainly just a dumb kid pretending to be a cop but don't sleep on the unbelievable idiocy potential of fed cops

CARL MARK FORCE IV might be the exception that proves the rule because he was A: caught, B: caught trying to scam an even dumber motherfucker for millions in bitcoin. If you're gonna be corrupt, you're probably going to do so over something like taking hundreds of thousands of dollars of "untraceable" cryptocurrency from a gargantuan idiot ordering a hit on a fictitious person.

Not threatening some guy on reddit talking poo poo about a game you preordered.

# ¿ May 18, 2017 11:15

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# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 15:46

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Reading over the past few effort posts about what to expect in a space game, I wonder: why is it about space games that attract this need to throw everything into it? You can do all this on Earth, and of course all these activities that are being touted are all real-life analogs. Shrink the scale and there's nothing to stop a game from featuring a flight attendant who jumps into an F-16 on weekends to perform merc work for some PMC and then explore some of the places on Earth which have seen little human contact so you can say you've been there. All the while you can decide to play comex trader on the Chicago Mercantile and direct your fleet of delivery truck drivers (or be one yourself if you like) to spread your goods to all sorts retail outlets, in multiple nations even. There's no game that's Civ plus Capitalism plus MS Flight Sim plus Harpoon plus Desert Bus plus Call of Duty plus Whatever bullshit that reflects being a flight attendant. Even leaving aside how mundane many of these jobs would be since Train Sim is a thing, everyone would acknowledge that this would be an unfeasibly huge mess of a game.

SC is mundane Earth activities...but in SPAAAACCEEEEE!!! How is any of this scope reasonable? Why is it that once you put something in space, you can ask a developer ("developer") to put in an inordinate amount of fine detail on random nonsense that would be utterly out of place in a game set in the world we actually inhabit? I must have missed the mini-game in MS Flight Sim where you get out of the cockpit and ask each passenger whether he or she wants a soda or coffee, then trundle down the aisle with your special drinks cart and you have to serve it correctly or you lose points.

# ¿ May 21, 2017 18:31

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

thatguy posted:

Because their current lives are miserable and they would like to escape to a magical world where anything is possible. Chris has promised them that and now they've wasted all their money and are stuck waiting, hoping, dreaming, and wishing that he'll deliver. Wulf is basically the perfect example of this.

Oh yes, I get that too. An implicit question, also, is that why is it in this real-life simulator is it that they're all clamoring for all the tedious bullshit that we leave out of games because we already have that in our day to day lives. I can understand being a hero with his chariot zipping around the stars. That's cool! Add a few activities like ship combat or getting out to get into fire fights with other players/NPCs and that's a solid basis for a game. But we also have to demand that we play flight attendant or manage cargo or check the latest space forecast or else we might be late on our Desert Bus (but in SPAAAAAACCCCCE) drive to Podunk Station, rear end End of Galaxy star system.

If our lives are already full of pointless drudgery, why is our life replacement simulator "featuring" that? It makes no sense to me.

# ¿ May 21, 2017 18:54

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Sunswipe posted:

Bingo. We buy videogames that allow us to do things we can't do in real life: fly fighter planes, single-handedly infiltrate Outer Heaven and stop Liquid Snake, throw fireballs at Dhalsim, win first place at Le Mans, lead a civilisation from the stone age to space. Most people don't want to include mopping floors and stacking boxes in our entertainment because they're the sort of thing we have to do either at work or at home. They're not fun, just necessary chores. Now imagine you're the sort of person who has never worked, either through genuine disability or through a mother who gave in too much and now worries what will happen to her 40 year-old son when she's not around to look after him. The sort of mundane tasks that get filtered out of most games become something genuinely unusual and exotic.

To provide some evidence for this, I'd point out that Yahtzee Croshaw of Zero Punctuation fame found he quite liked mundane job simulators (Papers Please, Farming Simulator, Euro Truck Simulator, Viscera Clean Up Detail). While he's not someone who has never worked, he is someone who for several years now has made his living by playing and talking about videogames. Most games are about being the chosen hero, saving the world, winning the big race, etc. If you're spending most of your working life playing that sort of thing, it makes sense that the games you play to genuinely relax will be something different from your work.

Yes, but at the same time, that shut-in who hasn't seen the light of day since the Clinton administration ought to find the act of escaping into the cockpit of a spaceship made of pure imagination novel in of itself. Taking two of your examples, I imagine the target demographic neither does any significant farming nor trucking, so that could be interesting from the POV of the like 98% of the developed world who likely have no clue what either profession is like even on a glancing basis (thus explaining also Harvest Moon/Stardew Valley). I'd be interested in the details of making a modern agribusiness work, because I'm a white collar guy whose exposure to rural life is nil, and I'm sure that even that elides the act of needing to get up at the crack of dawn to go around and shovel cow poo poo out of the barns, the sort of drudgery that SC seems intent on emulating.

I guess if you've spent your life staring at a wall and masturbating, then picking up a mop might be exciting. Yet, I'd have to imagine that given the choice between being a guy who jumps out of his magnificent space ship to headshot some fool on the landing pad, then hops back in so he could participate in a massive fleet battle raging above the station he's orbiting, versus hiding in the cargo hold and counting how many space chickens he's able to squeeze into his ship so he can make a bit of cash, well, I dunno. One sounds insanely more exciting than the other, and it ain't playing space trucker in space.

But I could also be trying to analyze a bunch of broke brains, so maybe my trying to rationalize their decisions is as futile as waiting for the game to be released.

# ¿ May 21, 2017 20:44

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

The Titanic posted:

To most people this is boring poo poo, but to them it's literally the most important parts of the game.

Perhaps I'm too normal but I simply can't appreciate this mindset. If I'm going to escape, and all video games are escapist to some degree, I'd think I'd do it in a way that makes me important. I'm the hero. I'm the CEO. I'm the ace fighter pilot. I can hurl fireballs and conjure monsters to fight my foes. I slay dragons and rescue princesses. I settle wild lands and conquer hostile realms. I make that sick 360 no scope shot that wins the match. Even in the most mundane game-type, you still have the agency to decide what to do and where to go and how to do it; Train Sim but you get to pick your fantasy of running down the Northeast Corridor in a TGV. It's certainly a challenge to try to negotiate the lovely rail US rail network in a train that goes 150MPH. So sure, if you're into that. There are many fantastic scenarios that don't come within a hundred yards of a toilet scrubber. Even Papers, Please gives you a little taste of petty power as a bureaucrat who can arbitrarily deny someone something they really want, if you want to explore that angle. Pretty much all games in a way offers one the sort of importance and validation someone might seek because it is otherwise be lacking in life because implicit in its premise is the idea that the most important person in that world is you, the player.

To me it seems to defeat the purpose of escapism if you're escaping into the exact same nightmare you're trying to get away from. If the point of fantasy is to give into imagination to let anything happen, it seems a terrible waste of effort if all you can imagine is the same dull grind you experience every day -- except you are now in ~~space~~ ~~medieval fantasy~~ a video game. Come home from the 9-5 that you hate so you can spend all night ignoring your family to clean virtual toilets online?

Maybe I'm the one with the lack of imagination :shrug:

# ¿ May 22, 2017 00:38

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

doingitwrong posted:

The problem they are going to face is that they have no taste or sense of narrative flow. I've known lots of nerds who wanted to spend hours and hours working through the mundane details of a story universe. Much of the work of fandom is being collective Tolkeins working through details and characters that were never meant to be anything other than set decoration in an effort to develop a coherent storyworld where non existed.

They don't realize that the reason cafeteria scenes work in movies is that you have jump cuts where the director only shows you the interesting parts of being around the dinner table not all of it. They think that if those scenes work, then surely extended cuts of those scenes would be amazing.

You make a point then undermine it with these paragraphs. I understand what you're getting at but you get to the heart of why it's pointless -- it's all narrative cargo culting. Drama happens in media because it's scripted to happen. The scenes happen in the cafeteria because of plot or budgetary constraints or because of stylistic choices about how people interact, but the words and actions were decided long ago in a writer's room while a bunch of authors determined what the actors would say. It's like deciding that if you recreate the cast of "Friends" and put them into a house that resembles Rachel's apartment within the Sims that somehow you'll get to see all the "cut" content that never made it to broadcast. If by some miracle we get a world recreated in full detail in SC, it'll be as boring as 99.999% of all such interactions as they happen in real life. Perhaps more so, because supposedly we'll get a million NPCs who have a script even simpler than the biggest dullard you can think of at work. Yeah, I'm talking about you, Reggie.

The players imbue actions in the game with meaning, because in the end nothing is meaningful within a game. Whether it's WoW or EVE or the Sims, once you quit the game nothing of import has really happened. It's important because we say it is. I couldn't care less what happens in EVE because I'm not a participant and every time I hear the BoB v. GS stories I am amused but it's not otherwise anything that I am invested in. If CCP shut down the servers tomorrow, what have you really done that mattered? Only what memories and experiences you take with you, but I'd argue that you can do that on any platform you choose. Obviously it's easier to do with some games than others, which I assume is why Second Life still exists, but we've been doing it since a bunch of smelly hominids pulled a stick from a bonfire and started scribbling with it on the cave walls of Lascaux.

To the extent that "emergent" storytelling is a thing, it's because all its participants have agreed that this is a story they're telling. In a game like EVE which is inherently PvP and you can generate easy drama because humans are tribal as gently caress and will form sides for the sake of forming sides, you've got instant conflict that we'll happily turn into a narrative because, poo poo, that's what our minds do. But I'd argue that it has zero to do with the mindless tedium or the mundane tasks that someone has to do. After all, in the end, the goal is to smash your polygons against the other guy's polygons and make those polygons go away in a big display of particle effects. That's the payoff, isn't it? Ultimately, that's what the stories focus on. The two sides gear up for war, they fight, and the efforts of thousands of nameless peons disappears into a cloud of shrapnel, work the principals of this particular tale don't seem to have done themselves. Maybe having an economy dependent on the work of some guy with a pushbroom will make it easier to have these epics. Maybe it'd just be a way to get someone tangentially involved while other people do the things that get written about. Either way, in the very same media that makes the cog indispensable, the cog is merely a line item in the story that you bring up to discuss how many accrued manhours some poor schmuck lost.

Loxbourne posted:

I think something people are forgetting is that many of the whales want all the box-stacking hot-tub-scrubbing jobs to be in the game not for them, but for the people they intend to lord it over on release.

It's been a while, but remember all those threads on the RSI forums about wanting new players to start without ships? The whales want peons to assign into crew roles, not to actually do those roles themselves. Their faith in the Croberts will be rewarded with the huge glorious spaceships that the faithless latecomers then have to slave in before they can get their starter ships. What's that, players can buy starter ships? Well, better make sure the insurance system has long respawn timers on it so they have to work as turret gunners during the downtime!

Thank you. It seems like every time I hear about EVE, it's always someone else who's doing the scut work. Or that it's easier to just scam some poor idiot out of thousands of hours of button pushing, or playing the in-game commodities market, or outright paying cash money. Whatever value there is in being the cog, I've never heard it being mentioned with any sort of appreciation except as being an exploitable resource by captains of industry.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 17:30

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Only in SC land can the equivalent of "we're building a car, and this year discovered you can weld metal together instead of banging on panels with rocks until they fuse" will get a standing ovation.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2017 22:20

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Sarsapariller posted:

I don't want to interrupt the chuckle over but I mean, it *is* actually illegal to steal someone's poo poo regardless of how silly that poo poo may be.

If nothing else, "unauthorized access to a computer system" is still a felony, no matter how poorly and broadly worded that statute may be. Losing your World of Warcraft account to a keylogger isn't theft in the regular sense, but it is a cybercrime.

It's...just not going to get any sort of priority at the FBI, that's for sure.

# ¿ Jun 7, 2017 22:22

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Ubik_Lives posted:

Is that really going to be the case for stolen accounts though? I would imagine most stolen account occur not because someone breaks into the metaphorical locker, but because someone steals the key from you, which you had an implied duty to protect. Hell, an actual locker place would probably charge you for key and lock replacement.

Also a real life locker rental place would have an ironclad term of service that states they aren't responsible for the contents of the locker, and can't guarantee its safety.

So when lawyers talk about property, they talk about "a bundle of rights" that denote ownership under the law. The right to possession, the right of disposal, the right of exclusivity, etc. With our figurative NPR totebag, that's obvious: I can use, sell, junk, lend, or refuse to lend it any way I like. I own it, unambiguously, under classical notions of property law.

With an account full of jpegs, what do I actually "own"? I don't have an exclusive right to the jpeg, which may be multiplied endlessly; that's considered the intellectual property of the company. Can I give it away? Maybe, but there are likely in-game rules about that which everyone is probably going to not challenge because it may break the game otherwise. (As an example, to prevent the sort of twinking/boosting that tended to plague EQ1, WoW popularized the concept of binding an item the character so it was not tradable. This is not a controversial concept nowadays and is an intrinsic part of the game's balance.) I can dispose of items, sure, but I am not necessarily allowed to dispose of the account in any manner inconsistent with the ToS, which haven't really been challenged on the merits. I basically have a license to go onto the servers and accumulate entries in a database. Whether that counts as an existing type of property that is simply measured differently than before, inasmuch as your bank balance is cash money but a number in a computer as opposed to a pile of literal dollars in a vault, or something new and undefined has to my knowledge not been settled as a point of law. If someone breaks into a bank's systems and siphons money, that's a million different felonies.

An online account holding jpegs? We don't know. At worst, so far, it may only be unlawful use of a computer system. It's not, per se, theft, under how the courts would view it, and couldn't be prosecuted as such.

Property law is an accretion of literal centuries of court cases and statutes. This sort of intangible definition of property is not unknown, but it's been the sort of thing that a lawmaker (king, Congress, etc.) comes out and states in unambiguously language that "here's a new form of property," and that's not happened. Yet.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 14:04

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Ubik_Lives posted:

Is that significantly different to a software license though? I don't have an exclusive right to Windows 10, I can't give it away, but I could dispose of it. But if someone takes my Windows 10 key, they've denied me access to my licensed software. Or stealing your iTunes or Amazon Movies accounts. I don't own any of that stuff, I just have an agreement with the people who do. I feel like this must have been settled in a court somewhere. It can't be that there has never been a case involving someone being caught stealing laptops, with the contents of those laptops being considered either way for restitution.

They're both licenses, and how courts view them vary because in the end it's a contract claim made against the service provider and it depends on the contents of the specific license offered to the consumer. So in theory, the license can say "you're hosed" and that may well be the end that. I'm not personally aware of any case that has contested such a clause that was a defense when the provider screwed it up. Mostly though, because of the shitstorm such a stance would cause, providers don't try to strictly enforce it.

But in the end, these are claims based on contract law, or consumer protection laws in how a company may provide a service. You're not chasing a hacker for claims of theft to retrieve an iTunes account; such cases turn on questions on what duty you're owed as a subscriber, not an intrinsic right as a property owner.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 18:28

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Aww, that missile is just trying to be friendly, see how it nuzzles the ship like a puppy greeting its family.

Bet it would get along great with Kayak :3:

# ¿ Jun 17, 2017 18:31

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

IncredibleIgloo posted:

So, if the game now defaults and folds any and all remaining cash and assets would be due to the creditor first, correct? Does it seem plausible that they would secure this loan to provide a very convenient excuse as to not issue refunds and deal with backers when the whole thing comes crashing down? I assume all the individuals will be protected and only the company itself will hold any liability? Seems like it would be very easy to just walk away, wash your hands of the whole affair, and give the excuse that "We tried our best!"

I assume in the UK that a secured creditor would be paid first should it go into bankruptcy/receivership, the whales being unsecured creditors and therefore on the bottom of the totem pole for debt priority. Heck, now that there's a loan with signatures and everything that would give the creditor rights to force a bankruptcy to protect the secured assets should it come down to it. (Yes in theory a pile of whales could theoretically claim to be creditors and force the issue before a court, but that wasn't gonna happen.)

If there is a default and the bank demands to see the books, you can literally go from a Friday AtV video saying everything is okay to doors padlocked on Monday and the employees locked out.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 16:36

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Colostomy Bag posted:

I guess the nature of this loan is going over their heads. Companies take out loans all the time. Have a product you think will be ROI of 10% but the interest is 5%? Win-win for both the company and the bank. Difference is most companies don't put their whole loving outfit on the line as collateral.

I would eventually like to see Uncle Derek start a Kickstarter to buy the assets for pennies on the dollar after it all collapses. That would be the ultimate outcome.

Ford did this just before the Great Recession and it was a heavily remarked upon piece of news because mortgaging the company was, and is, a gutsy move that requires either a strong long-term plan requiring lots of capital investment, or is an act of desperation in trying to feed a furnace and the only thing left are the floorboards and planking upon which it sits. Figure out which scenario fits CIG, a company with no product on the market and none for the foreseeable future, versus Ford, an old-line manufacturing giant whose struggles are already well known but was matched by the fact they had real assets producing real products that people still buy in large quantities.

Loans to businesses are unremarkable. Most businesses above a certain size issues commercial paper to smooth over their income, or have corporate bonds to finance bigger projects. Loans to companies whereby the creditor essentially owns the loving company if things go south is almost unheard of except in extraordinary cases where the company is distressed or the creditors were converted to an equity stakeholder almost against their will.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 17:07

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

peter gabriel posted:

Needs tens of millions to make a game
Raises hundreds of millions
Gets a huge loan

Hey now, when putting the entirety of your company into hock it may be that it's only worth a small loan, this is good for Star Citizen because

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 21:49

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Yes, this "ship" is more iconic than the Millennium Falcon or the Death Star or a Star Destroyer.

I thought it was a gun or something at first, that's how well designed this oblong rectangle is.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2017 17:26

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Pureauthor posted:

With SC though it just seems to make people more and more devoted to the idea that this game is magically going to turn out good. Because it's 'trying things no other games have done before'! (Which somehow makes the problematic development a-okay instead of even more worrying.)

That's the most hilarious thing. Take this sort of history to literally any other industry and see how it sounds like:

"We're gonna build a tower two miles high despite never having built anything bigger than a McMansion out of plywood, it'll be the best building ever! Ignore the fact we just started digging the foundation two years after our initial completion date, and that we have more newly graduated draftsmen selling floorplans than construction crew, everything is going great!!!"

Or

"We're creating a robot that can do all your chores and cook and give you a hand job to fill your empty existence. Don't worry about the fact the prototype is made of cardboard, can't hold a pot without burning the house down, we just need a little more money, buy these attachments to further extend the capabilities of the best drat robot ever!"

Or

"We're reinventing telecommunications and it'll be terabit speeds over a new wifi standard anywhere within a mile of our device! Yes the current iteration requires a 240v plug and it generates 1000w of waste heat and it doesn't actually go on wifi because we use twisted pair to connect clients but it's coming soon!!"

Like I can't even think of any high profile startups with so many broken promises recently. Theranos, perhaps?

# ¿ Jun 25, 2017 20:02

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

AP posted:

https://twitter.com/SandiGardiner/status/879806196663762944

The ridiculousness of sending out all these tweets of showing people showing something in a meeting ought make the scam obvious but it doesn't. I've never seen any game ("game") in development where so much is spent explicating so little. Like, shut the gently caress up about having a meeting or whatever and show us the loving game. Show what brand new gameplay you've implemented. Show us a game mechanic that is working. Show us something cool that someone in a current game build can do. Any other game the backers would be saying why are the devs bothering them with such trivial bullshit. No one gives a poo poo that you had a meeting! I had a meeting! Most of corporate America had a meeting this morning too! No one cares, not the participants, not the principals, sure as hell not the customer.

Yet people lap this up. It's amazing.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 00:06

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Shanghaied posted:

Freyermuth made it sound like a sure thing, because "they get the money from UK government", but the risk is not that the UK government being unable to pay, but that CIG would not qualify for a tax rebate later on. Otherwise there would be no need to post collaterals (e.g. obtaining short term unsecured credit through commercial papers, if CIG was a blue chip).

"It's totally risk free!"
*posts everything they own and will ever own as collateral at the pawn shop*

Even funnier is that for a few million quid apparently you too can hold in mortgage the entirety of CIG's work on S42. Even when examined in the best light favorable to the company it still looks like poo poo.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 16:33

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

I know when I see two "personalities" interacting in the most awkward way possible while saying almost nothing about the product that makes me really hyped about the pointless commercial they're about to air. Surely a thing that is taught in Marketing 101, "Tweeting about the most inane moments to build boredom."

It's truly amazing how all the principals are so bad at their jobs. A room full of monkeys with infinite time will create Shakespeare, but only give them $150MM and five years and you get SC.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2017 11:43

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Bubbacub posted:

In all fairness, it's not any less fun than the rest of Star Citizen, and it's actually small enough in scope to realistically be implemented in the game.

I'd dispute that; unless there are mechanics being recycled it seems like you'd have to build bespoke game systems to handle drink mixing, IT tech (IN SPAAACCCCEEE), airline route tracking and ticket pricing, licensing boards (!), etc. If your major platform is an entity clipping in space with max complexity of "shoot weapon" and "use", then you have to some how tell the engine what it means to mix a specific drink for a specific entity that allegedly exists on this route you've staked out. It sounds simple until you realize that computers are stupid and have to have everything coded for it to do something.

None of these actions, at least at this detail, exist in the game. I some how have my doubts about their ability to implement any thing like this.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2017 22:00

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Mirificus posted:

The energy expended in avoiding reality could be used to power a small town or a bitcoin farm.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2017 23:22

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

"I hope CIG doesn't turn into pay2win," as the whale drops another $1000 on a concept ship that promises to win every dog fight and fellate the pilot at the same time

# ¿ Jul 1, 2017 23:45

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

So how soon are the idiots on reddit going to say that 3.0 was never important and it's going to be 3.x patch that will change gaming forever?

# ¿ Jul 3, 2017 23:34

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

I dunno, so far it sounds like (to delusional backers) 3.0 is on track and poised to be miraculous despite all other reports to the contrary (because of one highly choreographed "tour") with further patches layering that fidelity nice and thick.

I'm waiting for the exact moment 3.0 goes from savior patch that rescues PC gaming from its unspecified doom to a mere footnote in the march to greatness that will surely be delivered by the next patch, wait and see goonies

# ¿ Jul 3, 2017 23:49

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

They've actually delivered that

I didn't realize SC was body horror but suddenly all that janky mo-cap makes complete sense

# ¿ Jul 8, 2017 17:43

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Michaellaneous posted:

You're not very funny imho, can you please

You realize that this was almost a paraphrase of some of our Reddit poster children for mental illness and transparent sophistry, right?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2017 19:34

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

stinch posted:

i don't think it's the fans expectations but the top level mangers who are all out of touch visionaries or ideas men or their hanger on yes men.

The fans are going "is [x] feature going to be in the game?!" and Crobbers is going "sure and we'll expand on it in ridiculous ways that make no sense" and everyone cheers. It's hugely self reinforcing from everyone.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2017 17:52

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

As demonstrated above, citizens are immune from basic logic and will take any adverse fact in any possible way to avoid seeing the project in a negative light.

This is delusional to the point of mental illness.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 04:17

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Sarsapariller posted:

God drat it the more I think about this the dumber it gets. A house cat is a dangerous predator. The fact that you called it a loving house cat does not make it a terrifying threat to a mouse! Star Citizen has a bunch of facts that point to it being a scam- if you disagree, present the evidence that convinced you otherwise. Otherwise you're just derailing by claiming you have some kind of line on an ultimate cosmic truth (Star Citizen is Good) and waving your hands as to why. "Truth can only be determined by the person who possesses all the facts" and then he doesn't follow up with a single fact that contradicts the version of "Truth" that he disagrees with.

His statement is stupid on so many levels. It's the sort of exercise you'd pull with grade schoolers who in all likelihood would imagine something like a tiger or a wolf or velociraptor. Then when Mrs. Anderson reveals to her fourth grade science class that, no, it's a house cat, the class goes "oooooooooh" because it's self-evident that it's true but they already formed an image based on a preconceived notion about what to expect. So it becomes a valuable lesson in biases and not letting personal preferences cloud your interpretation of the data. Let the data tell you what the conclusion is, don't look for the conclusion you want in the data.

The idiot flips it around and instantly disproves the point he was trying to make because of course the data says that SC is not good, will not be good, and is built on a pile of broken promises at best and a whole lotta lies at worst. So either he's someone who's been institutionalized his entire life and has never experienced the joy of knowing what a pet is and thus thinks cats aren't murderous fur bags that snuggle you after decimating the local bird population, in which case he's deserving of a great deal of pity, or he's trying to use some undigested bit about philosophy in science and being too far up his own rear end to realize that it says precisely what he doesn't want.

It's like fractal idiocy; you keep zooming in on different aspects and you find different ways the guy is wrong.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 13:08

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Kromlech posted:

I mean, if true we'd better get our poo poo together and back ASAP, considering how close we surely are to star citizen's complete and feature-robust launch.

Like, wtf how is that supposed any kind of threat to us? I would gladly pay a monthly subscription for the game star citizen was supposed to be, but the project is so far from that it's not even recognizable.

This is seriously one of the weirdest things I've seen from the Cult of Crobbers; the threat of a successful game as a stick to wave at doubters. A lot of people here were backers or would be the sort of person to go "hey, that looks neat, I would pay money for that," should the game actually release in a state resembling what it was promised. Like, that's how a free marketplace works. You bring a good product, I open my wallet. You show me a poo poo product, I close my wallet. There's no law that says I am not not allowed to change my mind should the quality of the product change. A good product that turns bad stops being purchased. A bad product that is improved is no longer avoided. It would not shatter my ego to be pleasantly surprised that a project that looked on the cusp of failure for so long has miraculously turned itself around and delivered the goods as described. I would like to be wrong about the direction of the project! But I'm likely not wrong, so I'll take a subsidiary benefit to following this trainwreck which is schadenfreude in its purest form.

I'll gladly trade being smug on the Internet for countless hours of revolutionary game play. That offer stands until the moment Coutts forecloses on the the studio.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2017 05:09

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Sabreseven posted:

Forgotten most likely, same as the "Hello kitty" poo poo they were rolling with a while ago.

Everything in this game lasts a week or so then is brushed under the rug. It's how they dupe so many people, it's an overload of useless bits of rubbish which hides the rotten core of the (lack of) product itself.

If CIG were a TV channel, it would be 30% adverts for impotence cures and impotent rage pills and 70% static of varying types.

To most reasonable observers there is no progress and who's loving stupid enough to put money in this trainwreck? I'm sure this is unintentional but fee-forwarding scams (Nigerian princes) use the worst grammar, the most outrageous stories, the least credible arguments in their pitches, to select for the most gullible. The scammers don't want someone who will arch an eyebrow at the many grammatical or spelling errors, the nonsensical phrasing, the ridiculous exchange. They want the stupid and desperate.

CIG has, probably by accident, selected for this audience. If nothing else, they can't exactly rely on income from people who won't cast a credulous eye on anything Crobbers says.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2017 22:24

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Yes, please tell me more about the buckets in this epic space game about space ships in space

# ¿ Jul 27, 2017 14:15

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

skaboomizzy posted:

That is some pro-tier empty tech-business talk right there.

Yeah, I remember that time when Blizzard released zero products to the public while promising the moon and stars to subscribers.

No, wait, in a decade we got SC2, Overwatch, D3, multiple WoW expansions, Hearthstone, HotS, bringing in literal billions in revenue.

Yup, totally the same as SC! :thumbsup:

# ¿ Jul 29, 2017 20:45

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Meridian posted:

Citizens don't seem to understand that we're not invested enough to put that much effort into causing CIG to fail. That, and they're doing fine on their own.

Basic causation, i.e., CIG is bad and the game doesn't exist after all these years and that's why goons laugh, escapes them.

But that's probably a mental defense. Goons can't be right because that means the game is bad and isn't coming out, so that would be unthinkable. It's far easier to spin a fantastical tale of jealousy, hatred, shadowy power brokers, obsessive plotting by people who can't quit. If you believe that Crobbers is right and the game is going to be a miracle of programming then every statement to the contrary is wrong and so the reasons those fudding fud goonies give are obviously lies; if the project is actually successful, and in their hearts of hearts they know this, then claims that it's a flailing failure are lies. Why would someone lie about a project that's gonna break all sorts of records? Clearly jealousy!

Anything else, they can clap their hands to their ears and go LALALALA.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2017 13:33

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

JugbandDude posted:

Tiber in space Rome... they've really given up on any hope of creativity in this train wreck.

I believe someone at CIG genuinely believes this moldering pile of cliches is fresh and original, which would be even more damning.

They aren't competent enough to realize how trash this all is.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2017 15:27

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Byolante posted:

Why does the studio have a commercial kitchen

research for the planned but not announced expansion, professional cook in spaaaaaaaaacceee

# ¿ Aug 17, 2017 13:03

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Scruffpuff posted:

In addition to all that, sometimes your point of the thing is mockable because CIG is the one doing it is, as you state, not really fair. But I can think of several things that are mockable because CIG is doing them. A good example is when they built the space door. If Blizzard had done it for Starcraft, nobody would care, because it would be their money and Starcraft is a real game that exists. If Bioware had done it, nobody would care. But building a space door IS mockable because CIG is doing it, because CIG has not yet earned the money they spent on it, and they don't have a game yet to validate the need for a self-referential space door. So there's that.

Like the biggest problem isn't even that door exists, but that they felt the need to lie about it. "No, it's totally a cheap garage door!" when a little bit of detective work shows that to be untrue. Bioware wouldn't need to lie about, and they wouldn't lie about it, period.

Do other game companies do scummy things? Sure. But I'm taken aback by the breadth of their mendacity combined with their utter incompetence. That's genuinely something unique in the industry, and the line between "Mocking what CIG does because it's CIG" and "CIG's stuff is all terrible" borders on being a syllogism.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2017 20:09

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

Tokamak posted:

Lmao, they haven't thought about multiple people using the same NPC. They'll change it if it is a problem.

Yes, a completely loving solved problem for two decades now and they haven't thought out the basic conceptual outline of what people do in MMOs besides roleplaying brothels in some horrifying corner of the game's world.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2017 13:37

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

G0RF posted:

FWIW, below is a detailed log I wrote up but never poster of last year's Gamescom preview of Alpha 3.0 mission design last year. I thought it would useful to break it down into activity type, to get a snapshot of their vision for what an hour of gameplay in 3.0 should really feel like. Might as well post it here, considering what Erin apparently said and on the eve of (maybe) an update on THE VISION.

One of the key determinants of MMO success (and any game, really) is the enjoyability of the core game loops, and that preview is quite telling. Though it never was turned into a graph, even a quick eyeballing shows what the core player activities are, the majorities being stuff like: TIME SPENT IDLE IN TRANSIT (IN SHIP), TIME SPENT IDLE IN TRANSIT (ON FOOT). There is very little that could be confused for fun, and what little of it they do include appears faked via the use of unseen participants in the demo.

That's insane. Like, an hour to get to the quest? I'm thinking of some old school WoW quests, where you were running around all over the place for a terrible reward. In the year 2017 that's been streamlined so you go to a place and can get into the quest right away. At least initially, it's very self reinforcing because you're in and out, and then you can stumble into an adjacent area and do something else right away.

Not only has CIG not learned from one of the most successful games of this young century, but they've actually regressed in the "waste of player's time" category. Amazing.

Of course, even seeing that would be an improvement over the shitstorm on display this year. An hour of idle time to get to content beats spending 15 minutes of featureless non-content before the system melts down and you repeat your aimless wandering in a brown limbo.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2017 17:52

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# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 15:46

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

The pursuit of this "feature" is the sort of thing than can seriously derail a normal game's development since it's pouring resources into something that adds nothing to the game.

But since there's in fact no game and development is a farcical lie continuously told in order to extract money from the gullible, this unveiling can only be good for SC.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2017 17:09

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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