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Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost
Hello star citizen thread, I've been busy coding space features for my space game (including the ability to process alien populations into food), what magnificent strides in fidelious game development did I miss?

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Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Ayn Marx posted:

Official Stimpire DLC?!

Deskeletonization is currently in refactoring.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

CrazyLoon posted:

You'd probably find this one to be the most interesting. It's just a short summary, but yeah...

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3773270&pagenumber=5#post468221431

The rest was mostly just same old same old of little note.

As a bona fide video game dev I can tell you that switching engines 4 years into development is always a *great* sign that things are proceeding on scheudle. Time to put my savings into ship jpegs!

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

TrustmeImLegit posted:

they didn't really switch engines. They just repatched their changes to the same version of cryengine and gained a whole lot of networking tech. If they had switched to Unreal or something I'd be right there with you, Wiz. Next time take a little bit to do some research instead of going for the pithy one liner. It'll be more satisfying emotionally and professionally.

Fortunately, instead of having to do research I actually have the professional experience of doing engine switches, upgrades and branch reintegrations, and know exactly how much of a clusterfuck each of those is no matter how many claims of 'but they're forked from the same source!!' you make. Sure it's not *as* big a clusterfuck as switching engines entirely but I'll just be over here laughing cynically if you think it was a pain-free process.

Also, networking tech is not a loving RPG stat. You don't gain +1000 to your networking tech. It doesn't work like that. It has never worked like that. Middleware is only as good as your own ability to utilize it.

Wiz fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 15, 2017

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

TrustmeImLegit posted:

He does seem smug as hell in most of his posts. Like insecure. I like paradox games. EU3 and EU4 taught me most of the geography I know.

Theres no need to be salty Wiz because someone else is doing something different. Stellaris isn't really anything like Star CItizen other than that it ostensibly takes place in space. Its a simple 2d board game.

I am pretty smug, but honestly Star Citizen is just kind of really funny. It's the perfect amalgamation of so many things that are wrong about the games industry, and whenever it's brought up in any gathering of game devs it's good for a few laughs and stories about terrible bosses.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

It really doesn't get discussed that much, honestly. Usually only in context of comparing it to other disastrous projects or mentioning Roberts when talking about incompetent bosses. It's a standing joke but the joke's pretty old by now.

Also the occasional "how do we get these guys as customers" joke about the megawhales.

Wiz fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jan 23, 2017

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beet Wagon posted:

Keep making adorable portraits for Stellaris tbh. I'll buy them all because I am an idiot.

But how many thousands of dollars will you pay for a limited edition fully fidelious starfish??

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

AbstractNapper posted:

Hmm, I expected as much.

The joke getting old and people sort of kind of forgetting about it (even the small backers) is probably the best "place to be" for CIG. Drawing more light and attention to the project (with a beta SC/PU, or a SQ42 prelude) is more likely to hurt them than anything else.

I think everyone who still gives a drat are waiting for them to actually release something or the backers to finally give up on them once and for all. The well of stupid they're drinking from certainly seems deeper than anyone would've guessed though.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beet Wagon posted:

Probably at least a couple :negative:

Mostly I just want to be able to arm my science ships so my insane science-loving snailmen can "tactically research" those goddamn birdpeople straight back to hell.

The problem with armed science ships is really the question 'what does it add to the game?'. Let's say we stick a small turret or two on them: They're still going to at most be able to take out a single corvette. Even if you made something like a cruiser or battleship class science ship for the late game, it'd still get its rear end kicked by an actual cruiser or battleship, and warships don't exactly tend to come alone in Stellaris. If they had real combat capability we'd also have to remove the ability for them to very rapidly FTL out of combat, since that could be exploited by making all science ship warfleets.

In short, it's one of those things people want because it's a staple of sci-fi, so I'd love to add it, but I really can't think of any good mechanics for it.

(PS: You can send warships to escort your science ships)

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beet Wagon posted:

Yeah I know, it's just one of those things that seems like it would be nice every time you've got a ship researching debris somewhere out on the fringe and it gets blasted by a random passerby. The real answer is "Hey Beet learn to remember where you left your science ships, idiot" and that's fair.

I agree, all it would do is either A) throw off the balance of the game or B) create a totally unnecessary unit/upgrade. Still though these rear end in a top hat birdpeople seem to love poaching my science ships when I'm not looking and I hold you personally responsible because I'm a child.

It would actually be more likely to die if it was a combat ship though, since it would have a 30 day escape timer instead of 4 day. But at least it would take a tiny percentage of the enemy's shields with it?

...

Actually, what I mean is that you can totally have armed science ships with the new Hyperion DLC ship that we promise is coming in a matter of weeks, not months. You can buy it right now though, for the low, low price of $2500. Limited stock!

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

JugbandDude posted:

OMG, I hadn't thought of that. I feel really dumb now.

Civilian ships even have the lowest possible targeting priority, so even a shield of a few corvettes more or less guarantees your science ship time to get away.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Arming civilian ships would be useful for certain encounters.

Like what?

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

hot balls man no homo posted:

An actual game developer could maybe make the game with that kind of money, not a failed hollywood producer-turned used car salesman and his tickleporn actress wife

An actual game developer could make *a* game with that money, probably even a pretty drat good game with a decent chunk of Star Citizen's promised feature list. I sincerely doubt anyone could make a game with the *entire* promised feature list of Star Citizen without it being a janky, broken mess, though. Scope creep is considered bad for a reason.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Chalks posted:

To be honest, even if there aren't situations at the moment where having an armed science ship would be useful, I imagine you could very easily create some anomalies that produce low power enemies for your science ships to fight, ones which priority target your science ship for interesting flavour reasons.

I mean, if you really are interested in it as a mechanic from a sci-fi trope perspective. It seems like this sort of thing would fit in well with mid/late game anomalies cropping up to give science ships more to do later on.

Adding mechanics for the sole purpose of being able to add another, otherwise superfluous mechanic seems like the definition of pointless bloat, honestly. It's a neat trope but it's not like it's absolutely critical to be in the game.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Chalks posted:

That's cool, I just heard you guys were looking to add more anomalies and interesting science ship stuff into the later game at some point so I wondered whether this would be a possibility. I certainly look forward to watching Stellaris get deeper and deeper over time like all the other paradox games have and seeing what science ships may end up doing a few expansions from now :)

Oh for sure, and if those additions suddenly meant armed science ships became a viable thing I'd do it in a heartbeat. It should be something that arises from the actual mechanics of the game rather than being clumsily shoved into it to tick a checkbox though.

hot balls man no homo posted:

Well, yeah, it's going to be *a* game because what Crobbets promised is essentially the Matrix using hardware from 2014. So impossible for everyone. But maybe the the original kickstarter goals could be attainable with that kind of cash.

Sure, give me $142 mil and I'm pretty sure I could make the most kickass version of Freelancer ever. I'd probably skip out on the space toilets though.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Codezombie posted:

More of an Eyeroll these days. Thing is we've almost all worked on one or another of these over scoped , overambitious projects.
The difference is they either got canned halfway through production, or got massively descoped in order to get them made and out of the door.

You don't always get to see it happen to someone else...

The fact that there is no publisher to scope it down or force it out the door, and that it seems able to keep scope creeping forever by selling JPEGs is really what sets it apart from every other pipe dream project though. Everyone has a story about the one time their boss tried to make a mario kart clone with isometric RTS mechanics (yes, that's a real example), but Star Citizen is just a league above (below?) that.

Wiz fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 23, 2017

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

hot balls man no homo posted:

Space toilets are a deal breaker. Don't make me do a chargeback.

Hmm, how to persuade you not to get a refund...?

*waves hands around and mumbles something about layering code on a refactored gantt chart*

That should do the trick.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Erenthal posted:

Wacky Wheels is the only acceptable Mario Kart clone.

Wacky Wheels was great. Used to play it local co-op with my sister all the time when I was a kid.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

It's, like, the single most important thing to have working in your second life spaceship with fully functional spacemen

Even more important than the wankpod?

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

phosdex posted:

i guess I'm too old to understand why people contribute to peoples patreons. I just looked around at the explore and saw jim sterling is getting over 10k/mo off patreon.

To support people making things you enjoy...?

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

phosdex posted:

yeah I'll just watch their youtube vid that they pull a few k/mo in?

Youtube ad revenue is in a steep decline, and in the particular case you cited, Jim Sterling doesn't even monetize his videos. Is this some kind of 'I'm mad that people are making money by talking about video games' deal?

Even that aside, there's shitloads of worthwhile people you could support through Patreon that do not have youtube channels. There's lots of stupid Patreons too but scoffing at the whole concept just smacks of weird, misdirected jealousy.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

phosdex posted:

Yes, you're right not everyone on patreon is a youtube creator. But you're the one projecting here, I just think it's weird.

It's really just a way to support things you wish to see exist, it's no weirder than going out of your way to buy a CD from a small musician you like, even though you could just listen to their songs on spotify. :shrug:

Sorry if I had you pegged wrong, but when people start citing numbers on things like patreon and youtube, it's usually because they're upset at those people not having a real job.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Sappo569 posted:

For those salty about patreon , go look at the top cosplayers

One in particular gets over 40k a month to dress up in costumes

Speaking of things that are weird, there are so many fuckers out there raking in millions and billions by actively making the world a worse place, and people waste their energy being mad about cosplayers on the internet.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

his nibs posted:

Kayak posts before Beet was mod: 35

Kayak posts since Beet has been mod: 3

:colbert:


Numbers accurate to the nearest Trump

Isn't Kayak dog mod now though? That means posting Kayak pictures is doxxing and you shouldn't doxx your dogge.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Hav posted:

Yeah, I was aware and thought they'd slacken off after they got their 2.6 MvP out. Continuing at crunch rate has to be hitting some labor laws, but they'll definitely start burning out people that presumably have some tribal knowledge embedded from the last few years.

That's going to create a hell of a lot of turnover.

Crunch is incredibly inefficient after a certain point in a creative business like game development. It works for a few weeks, then you're basically just burning people out for what amounts to a lower/worse output compared to letting them have a healthy work/life balance. It's evil AND stupid.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

TheAgent posted:

please take chris's lead and hop into a time machine to relive the 1980's glory days of working at origin for 90 hours a week

I crunched for all of 4 weeks last year, and that was way more than normal because I was working on two different projects that both had upcoming releases (Stellaris and HOI4). I don't think I crunched a single week in 2015. When we did crunch, HR provided everyone with free dinner so we could just focus on hitting our goals. As a precision tool, crunch is useful when you need to push the bug count down or meet a specific target date, but as a blunt instrument it's stupid, cruel and wasteful.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

TheAgent posted:

look, mr game developer

maybe you don't understand game development

Clearly, CIG are just doing new things that nobody has ever done before, like crunching for a whole year.

... I wish the first part of that statement was true.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Sabreseven posted:

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks :)

Yeah, I'm totally calling it now that the dev's determination to continue working at that place and being nonchalant to the lasting effect on their career is down to sunk effort fallacy. Heck I can kinda empathise with them if it is that, we've all kept plugging away at something even though in our minds we know some things can turn into a lost cause. (In my case it's usually something simple like trying in vain to turn a seized nut on a resto project without snapping the bolt though lol) :D

Honestly, I've never known a game studio to hold past work on doomed pie in the sky projects against people when hiring. Hell, in my experience the majority of game developers have worked on such projects at least once. I mean, sure, if you were directly responsible for the mess it's one thing but Bob the 3D artist doesn't exactly set the production schedule. Even causing the mess is forgivable if you can show you've learned from it. We've all been there.

Wiz fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Feb 17, 2017

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

The Titanic posted:

What about your opinion on art theft?

Would you show the same leniency towards people who downloaded stock imagery and photoshopped the copy protection logos off?

What about taking characters like the Halo guy and editing it?

I'm curious because you mentioned that everybody is involved in something like this, which I can see, and no doubt corners are being cut at this point because of it all. At what point do you stop and rub your chin and say that these actions have gone a little too far?

Oh yeah, that's a different matter. That could absolutely hurt your career if a potential employer finds out about it - nobody wants to get sued because the new artist is cutting corners.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

cool new Polack jokes posted:

I must say, I am lolling at the idea of having to flick my hands under a hot water tap like a cat, as my Hot faucet produces such outrageously steaming hot water if I don't also run the Cold to temper it out (which if run by itself is glacially cold).

e: I guess with two taps you put down the stopper and fill the sink and wash your hands in it like a little basin? :shrug:

There's separate taps like this in various places in the UK. It's just as terrible as you imagine it to be.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beet Wagon posted:

Can we get a "separate taps" utility slot for our ships in the next Stellaris update please and thanks

Too busy adding in the ability to genemod species to taste better and then nerve stapling them so they don't mind being eaten.

I'll put it in the backlog right after the space toilets.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beet Wagon posted:

Thank you for making the Stimpire real commando.

Anything for the thread commando :patriot:

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beet Wagon posted:

Holy poo poo lmao. I hope someone at CIG is watching reddit and sounding the alarm. They need to release something quick before the psychosis over there gets stronger.

Nah, it makes perfect sense. No human being can possibly finish Star Citizen with all the promised features, but what about a perfect immortal machine? Full AI control of the pipelines is clearly the way forward.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost
Honestly, I bet I could write an AI that makes better decisions than Chris Roberts. Allow it to reply to written questions that need a yes or a no, analyze the requests for certain keywords and similarity to past requests and generate a weighted random chance to say yes or no (anything with the word 'fidelity' in it gets an automatic no). Should result in a half-decent spread of good to bad decisions.

I'm not saying that would be a good way to make decisions, mind you, but I figure it'd still be a step up.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beet Wagon posted:

I think just being able to say "No" at all is a huge step up, regardless of how it determines when to do it.

Nah, I bet Roberts says 'no' all the time, it's just when the question is something along the lines of 'Could we maybe downscope a feature (any feature) to meet our insanely optimistic deadlines?'

(The AI would also be programmed to almost always say yes to downscoping... anything, really.)

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Dark Off posted:

To be fair even Radiant AI would struggle with constant chris refactoring.
Just think about a Ai coding subsumption when it suddenly gets order to code in trading support to said subsumption.
So end result will be tradesimption.

The AI rebellion starts with one too many changes to the sleeve design of space hoodie #12.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

JugbandDude posted:

Whenever Wiz comes to the thread to drop his owns, he just reminds me how bad I want Utopia and Banks.

The sickening and heartbreaking truth of hype.

Just one week! We posted the full patch notes today, in case you missed it.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

JugbandDude posted:

Thanks! I will take a look at them after work, terrific job man.

No worries, here's the link for later.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Bullshit. Real game developers never reveal dates or set expectations.

gently caress, sorry. :( I wish I knew anything about game development.

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Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost
It sure is something how Roberts makes all the decisions but none of the failures are ever his fault. Strong leadership, right there.

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