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Phyzzle posted:"Inadequacies" as in "Inadequate knowledge", or Ignorance. Not . . . inadequate looks or muscles or penises or whatever else you might be thinking. https://www.guernicamag.com/rebecca-solnit-men-explain-things-to-me/ quote:I still don’t know why Sallie and I bothered to go to that party in the forest slope above Aspen. The people were all older than us and dull in a distinguished way, old enough that we, at forty-ish, passed as the occasion’s young ladies. The house was great–if you like Ralph Lauren-style chalets–a rugged luxury cabin at 9,000 feet complete with elk antlers, lots of kilims, and a wood-burning stove. We were preparing to leave, when our host said, “No, stay a little longer so I can talk to you.” He was an imposing man who’d made a lot of money.
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Dec 28, 2016 06:16
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Pellisworth posted:I dunno if it's within the scope of this thread, but gay male culture in the US is pretty toxic and exclusionary. To throw out one example, gay men with more stereotypically effeminate mannerisms or dress get poo poo on a ton compared to str8-acting homobros. Right-o. Even gay men have to subscribe to sexist gender norms. I've seen plenty of it in Mexico and Texas. I can't count how many times my mom has asked me if my gay brother is the "man or woman" in the relationship.  But then there's gay males who will subject their peers to the same standards.
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Dec 28, 2016 06:24
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Men do this to each other just as much as they do to women, it just looks more stupid when they do. Just today on another thread someone felt the need to explain technology to me that I already knew about, apparently there was a danger I might not have understood what I was discussing with someone else. The need to be right is just as powerful as the need to patronize, and it infects all men to some degree, myself included.
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Dec 28, 2016 06:28
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ewe2 posted:Men do this to each other just as much as they do to women, it just looks more stupid when they do. Just today on another thread someone felt the need to explain technology to me that I already knew about, apparently there was a danger I might not have understood what I was discussing with someone else. The need to be right is just as powerful as the need to patronize, and it infects all men to some degree, myself included. yeah, which is doubly bad when someone isn't just misinformed due to ignorance, but misinformed due to being a woman. it's very easy for unaware men to assume that women couldn't possibly know what they're talking about, which is why this isn't just a "male problem" but a problem arising due to the patriarchy. the quoted anecdote couldn't have happened if it were a male author, the rich idiot wouldn't have kept a man behind to chat him up and impress him with knowledge of recent books why do you say it looks "more stupid" when men assume ignorance among men? wouldn't it be equally stupid? could there be an expectation that women wouldn't know things?
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Dec 28, 2016 06:31
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punched my v-card at camp posted:The one real critique of feminist practices in this regard is that I think that feminist men need to do more work to reach young men, and offer a constructive alternative to the reddit cesspools. Right now a lot of impressionable young men are starting with questions like "why can't I get a date?" and ending up with the answer "because feminists and cucks are destroying male america" because the spaces they go with the question are radicalizing them. This is the number one motivating factor for lots of MRA types I think, they just can't get a date. Unfortunately, introspection, self-evaluation, and acknowledgment of personal flaws are discouraged in men. This is compounded when young men internalize objectification of women. This makes it harder for men to step back and look at themselves in order to evaluate themselves. In this toxic environment many men don't think to ask themselves, "Who am I? What do I bring to the people in my life? What would another person find attractive in me?" I think this is also why a lot of guys dress like poo poo. They've never thought to evaluate themselves from an outside perspective. Doing so is unmanly. This leads to a lot of PUA bullshit. Because it frames getting laid as a game where the subject (the man) can manipulate the object (the woman). It probably wouldn't sell, but that scene wouldn't be nearly as toxic if the message was about improving oneself for ones own benefit and to be more attractive to potential romantic partners. ewe2 posted:Men do this to each other just as much as they do to women, it just looks more stupid when they do. Just today on another thread someone felt the need to explain technology to me that I already knew about, apparently there was a danger I might not have understood what I was discussing with someone else. The need to be right is just as powerful as the need to patronize, and it infects all men to some degree, myself included. I used to see this a lot in the video game industry. I'd be at an event or party with a group of people talking shop and then some idiot dude (usually on the younger side) would feel the need to explain the conversation to a woman or group of women who had bee full participants in the discussion all along. It was always cringe inducing. Men do do it to each other, but it's usually done as a power play. It becomes an easy thing to do to women if one thinks they are automatically more powerful than any woman in the room. Unfortunately, the internet is a machine that takes good arguments and distorts them into self-parody and now I see the word 'mansplaining' used whenever a woman and a man disagree. Let us English fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 06:36
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yeah, the key to getting laid is -exercise -therapy -eat right -dont talk about nerd things too much -adjust your expectations but it's easier to blame society than work on improving yourself. and as you say, because society objectifies women and makes the obtaining of sex/a woman's affection into a measure of the man's worth, you basically have to admit you're not worth much in a real and sincere, depressing way rather than a joking ironic "haha i'm an unfuckable but at least i'm not a tryhard like chad thundercock who probably hates himself anyway"
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Dec 28, 2016 06:42
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My gf and I discussed "mansplaining" just yesterday. We both agreed that some men are heavy-handed and paternal, but we couldn't agree on how much was learned or innate behavior. She said that women do plenty "splainin" themselves. (I agreed because she can be plenty professorial herself  )I don't like how trendy "mansplaining" has become. I agree that we live in a patriarchy and that men indulge in boorish behavior, but it's become an inherently anti-men argument. I mostly hear it from educated white women too, which may mean it is primarily an occupational problem.
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Dec 28, 2016 06:43
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punched my v-card at camp posted:I've always found a certain degree of irony in the development of the "man-o-sphere" and the general rise of aggrieved nerd misogyny. In a lot of ways, it's the male victims of the patriarchy blaming feminism for the fact that conventional/patriarchal masculinity excludes and belittles them. I grew up a nerdling who was made fun of for being nonathletic and interested in weird stuff and I did feel a lot of frustration in how I couldn't measure up to what was expected of me as a man and that I wasn't reaping the rewards of being a man in terms of receiving female attention and male respect, which are issues I think underlie a lot of dumb MRA arguments. Unlike a lot of the GamerGate types, I've never forgot who was doing the mocking though- it was the jocks and traditionally masculine guys, not the handful of feminist women in my life. This is a good post, and it communicates the idea that I was trying to get at earlier. It's darkly funny that nerdy communities tend to be some of the worst about perpetuating harmful gender stereotypes for men. Even in the enlightened leftist bastion of D&D, male nerd insecurity is transparently obvious when people constantly attack each other over being "basement-dwelling virginal neckbeards" and such. That kind of culture encourages terrible behavior and leaves men feeling emotionally isolated and insecure. We really do massive damage to ourselves, in large part. Let us English posted:This leads to a lot of PUA bullshit. Because it frames getting laid as a game where the subject (the man) can manipulate the object (the woman). It probably wouldn't sell, but that scene wouldn't be nearly as toxic if the message was about improving oneself for ones own benefit and to be more attractive to potential romantic partners. A lot of the "manosphere" actually does put a large emphasis on personal fitness, becoming more sociable, and gaining self-esteem and confidence. They also teach guys to be emotionally abusive, to hate women on a general level, and to subscribe to abhorrent politics. The former bits are positive behaviors that help success in dating, while the later bits are unnecessary and destructive baggage. The real problem is that they tangle all of these things together in one poisonous ideology, and lots of guys can't figure out what they've been sold.
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Dec 28, 2016 06:46
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boner confessor posted:why do you say it looks "more stupid" when men assume ignorance among men? wouldn't it be equally stupid? could there be an expectation that women wouldn't know things? To a certain kind of man, it's like getting to play in a lower league than he's used to, free kicks all round. The beta gets to feel like a bully. Let us English posted:Men do do it to each other, but it's usually done as a power play. It becomes an easy thing to do to women if one thinks they are automatically more powerful than any woman in the room. The anxieties of a pecking order get their release in this fashion.
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Dec 28, 2016 07:02
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Frijolero posted:Right-o. Yeah, it seems to me that "traditional" gender roles and expectations are applied to gay men both in how they should act and who they should date. You should be a strong confident manly man, and ideally you should date someone young and pretty. I don't think mannerisms and dating preferences are necessarily racist or bigoted. Some people are more traditionally masculine, some are more feminine, some people are more attracted to one or the other. Some people are more attracted to partners of their own race and that's not just based on appearance. I've mostly dated white guys but I think that's largely because of my social circles and the fact that I share more cultural experience with them, I don't have any strong preference. Growing up gay and black, for example, is pretty different from my own experience and gay black dudes are their own distinct subculture. BUT BUT BUT, all of that is heavily reinforced in media and the larger culture and it's not healthy. If you tend to go for more masculine Hispanic dudes, fine whatever that's your preference. But don't poo poo on everyone else, be a little self-aware and support your broader community.
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Dec 28, 2016 07:02
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ewe2 posted:Men do this to each other just as much as they do to women, it just looks more stupid when they do. Just today on another thread someone felt the need to explain technology to me that I already knew about, apparently there was a danger I might not have understood what I was discussing with someone else. The need to be right is just as powerful as the need to patronize, and it infects all men to some degree, myself included. No they don't. Men among themselves are far more ready to assume a basic level of competency in others than they are if they are talking to a woman. I teach seminars, I get to witness this stuff first hand. A male student will be assumed to be baseline competent by default, until he says something dumb enough to change people's minds. A female student will usually have to work to convince people that she has understood the text at a basic level. Women are assumed to be incompetent until they have demonstrated otherwise. None of this is done with malicious intent, but it very much happens. It also has the unfortunate side-effect of being self-perpetuating, i.e., if a female student is talked to like she didn't understand something, she will likely back off and question whether she really missed something, which looks like confirmation to the person explaining to her. Thus the person explaining will feel that they were helpful and will do the same thing again next time. Men do overexplain to other men, that is true. But at a lower rate than to women in my experience (and the experience of other lecturers that I've talked to). And women almost never do it to men.
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Dec 28, 2016 10:58
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Pellisworth posted:I dunno if it's within the scope of this thread, but gay male culture in the US is pretty toxic and exclusionary. To throw out one example, gay men with more stereotypically effeminate mannerisms or dress get poo poo on a ton compared to str8-acting homobros. But is this a problem with gay culture, or the wider scope of patriarchy? Who is actually doing the making GBS threads? Is it other gay men, or straight men? I guess I've heard of straight acting gay men who show resentment towards the more stereotypical gay man, largely because the former feel the latter are making things harder for them when it comes to being accepted, but that just raises the question of why is it necessary for gay men to be accepted only if they act a certain way. The thing to do would be not to tut and roll your eyes and berate people for acting in what is perceived to be a negative way, but to embrace and encourage it. If a way of behaving rattles the patriarchy, then it should be doubled down on because it's clearly doing something right.
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Dec 28, 2016 12:31
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botany posted:Men do over explain to other men, that is true. But at a lower rate than to women in my experience (and the experience of other lecturers that I've talked to). And women almost never do it to men. I'm not disagreeing here, I think it's actually worse on the internet than face to face, and it may not be borne out by your experience but from men's point of view there's little difference. Men feel explained-to a lot, perhaps they measure their social inferiority by it. It's the same with privilege playing victim, they don't actually see the difference, but they imagine they're being victimized. It's almost a siege mentality. They're ready to attack on the assumption they're always being patronized (of course there are exceptions). Men also feel better if they think they can successfully compete in a different domain than the one they assume for their "competitor". With women this can be anything, but it's just as instructive to see how men boost their egos by comparing each others occupations and don't get them started on sports. The assumption of baseline competency is a measure (to men) of where on the ladder you are. Read any technical discussion and see just how impatient men are with each other when they assume an understanding that isn't there, that's the flip side. Women mostly do not feel the need to compete like this and even if some men don't, they still fear being explained-to.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:55
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falcon2424 posted:This is why we shouldn't mix up movements and ideologies. My only problem with this is that Feminism is largely based in womens' experiences and that a Male Feminist movement could devolve through the "blind leading the blind". It's why I'm skeptical of the idea that people who most benefit from privilege should self-educate themselves on social justice ideologies based in subjective experiences they'll never face; how do you know their own subjective experiences won't lead them to develop alternative explanations and viewpoints that in-places contradict or bowdlerize the parent movement?
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Dec 28, 2016 14:34
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ewe2 posted:The need to be right is just as powerful as the need to patronize, and it infects all men to some degree, myself included. Over the last few years, I've come to realize that righteousness is a major flaw in both myself, and virtually every man I know. Sure it's a trait in a few women, but it seems to be almost a defining trait of men. I couldn't tell you if it's societal or what, but the best I can do personally is try to catch myself when I'm all caught up in it. The difficult part is that it often feels like a virtue.
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Dec 28, 2016 15:40
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Hexmage-SA posted:how do you know their own subjective experiences won't lead them to develop alternative explanations and viewpoints that in-places contradict or bowdlerize the parent movement? Why is this bad? Is there something sacred about the subaltern experience? e. Parse what you just said. "How can you be sure they'll unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 16:47
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Black Baby Goku posted:So it silences women by bringing up a topic in the feminism thread that doesn't involve women? Are men and women not allowed to discuss issues that may not be from the place of their sex or lived experiences? Just seems silly to me but whatever. Thanks for answering. It may not be, on an individual level, objectionable. However on aggregate, if everybody does that because the discussion group is disproportionately male, it has the effect of drowning out the discussion. It is possible for actions which are individually fine to have not fine outcomes when applied universally. And whether it is intended or not doesn't make it less obstructive, so you attack the effect by creating safe spaces and giving extra weight to numerically smaller voices.
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Dec 28, 2016 18:24
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the trump tutelage posted:Why is this bad? Is there something sacred about the subaltern experience? It's not necessarily bad and challenging dogma/authority certainly has value but a shared pool of resources and knowledge, particularly those involving mental and emotional states or behaviors in two different groups, will likely at the least avoid wasting time reinventing the wheel. From a tactical perspective you don't want two entities trying to do the same thing in uncoordinated ways because secondary effects can be disastrous. I'm currently dealing with establishing something with a likely powerful adversary and entities on my side often offer up support ideas that sound great to them but would be hugely disastrous if performed because they aren't working with a lot of the core information.
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Dec 28, 2016 18:47
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IDK which thread this is right for so here goes. My fiance had a successful and highly paid career that she decided to put on hold for reasons. It pisses me off when the Wokest of the Woke people I know criticize or look down on 1) her for deciding to stay home instead of running with that and 2) me for not encouraging her to be a Strong Independant Woman. She's doing what she wants to do and your stupid gendered expectations are just as dumb as the ones you claim you're fighting against (You know who you are. You probably don't read SA, but still).
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Dec 28, 2016 19:15
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Let's consider for a moment, the expectations and ideals we're supposed to fill and aspire to hold. So called 'masculine' traits such as: Independence, strength of body, ruggedness, volitile temperment, indifference, intelligence, logic, STEM aptitude, emotional distance, leadership, ambition, competitiveness, powerful voice, athleticism, high income, sexually aggressive, sexually insatiable and more. And then 'feminine' traits that are seen as aberrant or womanly, even homosexual in nature: Empathy, sympathy, eloquence, kindness, cleanliness, emotionally open, low income, physically inept, soft skin, soft voice, contentedness, depression, liberal arts aptitude, paternal instinct, love of children, etc. How do we go about breaking this stuff down? It's not all negative, and certainly not limited to men (clearly women have nearly the opposite expectations). I want to see a country where both the cowboy and the nurse are seen as male roles to aspire to. Taking care of children is another big one. The biggest thing in my life is being called "Daddy!" by my little boy. That shouldn't be seen as off, or soft. How do we fix it? Especially in the age of Trump.
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Dec 28, 2016 19:22
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botany posted:No they don't. Men among themselves are far more ready to assume a basic level of competency in others than they are if they are talking to a woman. I teach seminars, I get to witness this stuff first hand. A male student will be assumed to be baseline competent by default, until he says something dumb enough to change people's minds. A female student will usually have to work to convince people that she has understood the text at a basic level. Women are assumed to be incompetent until they have demonstrated otherwise. None of this is done with malicious intent, but it very much happens. It also has the unfortunate side-effect of being self-perpetuating, i.e., if a female student is talked to like she didn't understand something, she will likely back off and question whether she really missed something, which looks like confirmation to the person explaining to her. Thus the person explaining will feel that they were helpful and will do the same thing again next time. This crap is why I usually ask women in class for help when it's a reasonable option, because usually if I tell a women "I'm loving stupid and don't understand" their response is actual concern and help instead of seeing it as an opportunity to show off how much they know. edit: for context I'm in an electrical engineering program
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Dec 28, 2016 19:25
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wateroverfire posted:My fiance had a successful and highly paid career that she decided to put on hold for reasons. It pisses me off when the Wokest of the Woke people I know criticize or look down on 1) her for deciding to stay home instead of running with that and 2) me for not encouraging her to be a Strong Independant Woman. Who exactly tells you that? Without knowing the "reasons" (kids?) it's hard to say whether they are concerned for a friend who seems to be getting isolated, or whether they are being unreasonable.
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Dec 28, 2016 19:26
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Talmonis posted:Let's consider for a moment, the expectations and ideals we're supposed to fill and aspire to hold. Live as you wish to see others live, that helps. One of the advantages of being a dude is that you have authority and command respect for your position simply by virtue of being a dude. You can be masculinely feminine. You can demonstrate a lot of the feminine traits you desire but combine it with masculine assertiveness and borderline arrogance. It's harder if you want to really range into genderfluidity but I get along well by rejecting the majority of masculinity as antisocial bollocks and adopting traditionally feminine roles and behaviours except for the whole "second to men" bit. Stuff like empathy and a developed emotional mind are extremely valuable to anyone, but especially someone who is otherwise deprived of it by their social role, you can develop and champion that ability as a dude for your own sake as well as because it's a good thing socially. If you raise your kids with that outlook they stand a better chance of accepting it as normal and sensible. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 19:41
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the trump tutelage posted:Why is this bad? Is there something sacred about the subaltern experience? I don't necessarily agree with it myself, but the common refrain I see with social justice discussions is that the privileged should "be quiet, listen, and believe" (unless an individual in an oppressed group disagrees with their position, in which case ignore that individual)
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Dec 28, 2016 21:05
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Hexmage-SA posted:I don't necessarily agree with it myself, but the common refrain I see with social justice discussions is that the privileged should "be quiet, listen, and believe" (unless an individual in an oppressed group disagrees with their position, in which case ignore that individual) Because obviously privilege invalidates any and all arguments 
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Dec 28, 2016 21:08
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:Because obviously privilege invalidates any and all arguments No one said this and being a tool is a good way to get all your arguments invalidated.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:24
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Kubrick posted:Along with what UV_Catastrophe mentioned, the President's Counsil on Men and Boys is a good place to start: http://whitehouseboysmen.org/one-pager Not to sound heartless but...who cares? All of those sound like things that are either men's own fault, or natural consequences of biological sex differences. Maybe boys just plain aren't as smart as girls? Maybe men don't live as long as women because of innate biological reasons that lifestyle, diet, exercise, healthcare, etc. can only do so much to alleviate? Maybe boys commit suicide more often because they're more emotionally fragile and mentally weaker than girls? Girls have it tougher than boys and yet they don't commit suicide as often. i wonder why that is? Believe me: I'm a trans woman and I know all too well that biological sex is a thing. It matters. Male human beings are different from female human beings. I'll never be a real woman. Science doesn't care about our ideals. Studies have shown that boys really do have more trouble learning than girls do, and that the reasons for this are innate and biological and frankly things that boys can't do anything about. Our world is changing and if boys get left behind, that would suck but it might be inevitable.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:46
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Blue Star posted:Not to sound heartless but...who cares? All of those sound like things that are either men's own fault, or natural consequences of biological sex differences. Maybe boys just plain aren't as smart as girls? Maybe men don't live as long as women because of innate biological reasons that lifestyle, diet, exercise, healthcare, etc. can only do so much to alleviate? Maybe boys commit suicide more often because they're more emotionally fragile and mentally weaker than girls? Girls have it tougher than boys and yet they don't commit suicide as often. i wonder why that is? If you are arguing that men are inherently disadvantaged then I would think the compassionate thing to do would be to adjust society so that they are not. As I trust you would expect society to adjust so that people who are systemically disadvantaged are not.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:50
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Blue Star posted:Believe me: I'm a trans woman and I know all too well that biological sex is a thing. It matters. Male human beings are different from female human beings. I'll never be a real woman. Huh. I guess trans issues fit in this thread, so I'll ask: wouldn't virtually any feminist, or virtually any other trans woman, ferociously disagree with you on that?
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Dec 28, 2016 22:03
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Pellisworth posted:I don't but would be really interested in reading some good articles on it. What's wrong with making you preferences in partners clear? If somebody has zero romantic/sexual interest in overweight people, why is it a problem for them to say so when they're looking for a romantic/sexual partner?
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Dec 28, 2016 22:04
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Blue Star posted:Girls have it tougher than boys and yet they don't commit suicide as often. i wonder why that is? I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that women are much more likely to attempt suicide more often than men, but use less effective methods such as overdosing or cutting verses firearms or jumping that men are more likely to use. The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention says that the difference is as much as women being 3 times more likely to try to kill them selves but men being as much as 4 times more likely to actually die from it. So I'm not sure you can make any concrete conclusions on either gender's psychological resilience based on suicide statistics alone.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:05
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Guy Goodbody posted:What's wrong with making you preferences in partners clear? If somebody has zero romantic/sexual interest in overweight people, why is it a problem for them to say so when they're looking for a romantic/sexual partner? You don't have to respond to their messages but it just makes you look like an rear end in a top hat to say NO BLACK GUYS in a public space where everyone can see it.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:07
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http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/12/so-you-got-called-out-on-facebook/ This is really good and everyone should read it. 
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Dec 28, 2016 22:13
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Blue Star posted:Girls have it tougher than boys and yet they don't commit suicide as often. i wonder why that is? That's why suicidality in men more often takes the form of feeling that they've exhausted all reasonable options and are choosing to end it all, whereas women are more likely to 'ask permission' in the form of parasuicides, suicidal gestures not intended to be fatal. And then they often end up in the coercive/abusive systems of treatment for that, as a result of being 'attempted suicides'. I don't think either of those outcomes are good, and we should be looking at the root overall causes, alienation, poverty, debt, etc. that drive people to those ends, because the alternatives (that we start telling boys they don't own their bodies or we accept increased female suicide as a sign of equality or we over-medicalize the whole thing) are all really gross. Phyzzle posted:Huh. I guess trans issues fit in this thread, so I'll ask: wouldn't virtually any feminist, or virtually any other trans woman, ferociously disagree with you on that?
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Dec 28, 2016 22:17
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Guy Goodbody posted:What's wrong with making you preferences in partners clear? If somebody has zero romantic/sexual interest in overweight people, why is it a problem for them to say so when they're looking for a romantic/sexual partner? There's a difference between "No thanks, i'm not interested" and "All fat people are unattractive". Additionally, when you broaden that into talking about race ("All black people are unattractive"), you start edging into really uncomfortable territory because people of the same ethnicity can look very, very different. If you're unwilling to date a black person, would you break up with someone after two days because you thought she was white but it turns out she has a black grandparent and considers herself mixed-race? And if you wouldn't, how do you think it'd go down if you told her "I don't normally date black people but you don't look or act black so I'm making an exception"? Further, when you say "overweight", you may mean something that other people don't, which just needlessly thins your dating pool by pre-emptively rejecting people who may consider themselves overweight but that you wouldn't (I'm assuming you mean "someone who is so overweight that it impacts their ability to do fun activities" or "someone who is obese", and not "someone who is around average but insecure about their weight" or "an athlete who has a lot of muscle", but even people with an extra 20 pounds can carry it in very different ways and look very different). To say "I'm not interested in overweight people" is to tell people "if you think you are overweight, I'm not interested, no exceptions". I'm not attracted to bald men, in general, but I would hesitate to say that all bald men are inherently unattractive (or even that they're unattractive at all, regardless of my personal preference) or that I would never date them. I would most definitely not go around telling bald strangers I'd never met "I'd never date you because you're too unattractive" because that's a good way to come across as a judgemental rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:41
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Guy Goodbody posted:What's wrong with making you preferences in partners clear? If somebody has zero romantic/sexual interest in overweight people, why is it a problem for them to say so when they're looking for a romantic/sexual partner?
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Dec 28, 2016 23:01
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Blue Star posted:Not to sound heartless but...who cares? All of those sound like things that are either men's own fault, or natural consequences of biological sex differences. Maybe boys just plain aren't as smart as girls? Maybe men don't live as long as women because of innate biological reasons that lifestyle, diet, exercise, healthcare, etc. can only do so much to alleviate? Maybe boys commit suicide more often because they're more emotionally fragile and mentally weaker than girls? Girls have it tougher than boys and yet they don't commit suicide as often. i wonder why that is? This is a bunch of  bullshit that would rightfully get shouted down as nonsense if it were about women instead of men.Blue Star posted:Believe me: I'm a trans woman and I know all too well that biological sex is a thing. It matters. Male human beings are different from female human beings. I'll never be a real woman. I'm a trans woman and I'm a real woman, thanks. Men and women are different, sure, but I think it's ignorant in the extreme to simply turn around and try and blame all discrepancies between the genders on that, simply because men now lag women in some respects. How is that any better from some rear end in a top hat saying "maybe women are just inherently inferior at math and engineering" when talking about the gender discrepancies in STEM careers? Edit: I feel like I'm missing a joke where someone took an MRA rant and swapped genders DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 23:09
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DeadlyMuffin posted:This is a bunch of You are right that it would be shouted down instantly, but get this: maybe that isn't a good thing??
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Dec 28, 2016 23:15
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DeadlyMuffin posted:
Charitably, if you believe that society is generally set up to advantage men over women, situations where women are beating out men are necessarily situation where women are better then men, but the reverse is not true.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:17
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The whole "yeah we currently know all that we can ever know about boys and men, who cares" is hosed. We care because we have to share a planet, and because there's a whole loving tangle of sociocultural gender dynamics that aren't going to unravel themselves. I want everyone to have the greatest opportunity to thrive possible. So if boys aren't thriving in education, that matters. If they're killing themselves, that matters. We owe it to everyone that comes after us to work on figuring this stuff out. That 'real woman' stuff is a product of living in a cisnormative culture. It's troubling to see that internalized, and it's a reminder that there is still work to do.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:20
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