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WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

Roller Coast Guard posted:

Right, so it's more or less the caution clock from the Trucks last year but every 33% race distance rather than every 20 minutes and with points awards thrown in too.

It'll be more like 25%/25%/50% actually. The difference from the caution clock is that it matters for the championship if you're leading when the caution comes out/the segment ends, and that they'll close the pits a few laps before that happens to prevent teams taking advantage of the situation.

Alain Post posted:

I actually wouldn't mind it that much if they just straight up made them heat races. I guess it isn't that different, but still.

Right, in this respect I don't have a big problem with this format. It's just the way they chose to tell it to everyone was horrible. I posted about this in the NASCAR thread, but all they needed to do was say something like, "We're going to create three shorter, harder races within a single, traditional NASCAR race," which would have compactly explained their new format, addressed everyone's complaints that races are too long and drawn out, and resolved it with a promise that non-stop hard racing action is coming back.

Instead, NASCAR decided to frame the announcement as something all of the financial stakeholders are thrilled about…and oh by the way, our fans will like these "enhancements" too? I felt even more alienated towards NASCAR after watching that press conference.

ed- To keep this relevant to IndyCar: NASCAR has already tweaked its championship format with points gimmicks, and is now further using points gimmicks to spice up the racing. IndyCar has had to rely on that too (quali points at Indy, double points at Sonoma), but it's been a minor change compared to the major changes they've been doing with new cars, quality drivers, the Road to Indy program. I wonder what NASCAR would do if this didn't work? Because the minor changes to the points system are starting to become major changes to the sport, and if those don't work NASCAR doesn't have much to fall back on except contraction.

WindyMan fucked around with this message at Jan 25, 2017 around 22:37

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VikingSkull
Jan 23, 2017

Silent Majority
THE UNDERBOSS





You should never watch press conferences featuring corporate minded people as a general rule, just saying.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





WindyMan posted:

ed- To keep this relevant to IndyCar: NASCAR has already tweaked its championship format with points gimmicks, and is now further using points gimmicks to spice up the racing. IndyCar has had to rely on that too (quali points at Indy, double points at Sonoma), but it's been a minor change compared to the major changes they've been doing with new cars, quality drivers, the Road to Indy program. I wonder what NASCAR would do if this didn't work? Because the minor changes to the points system are starting to become major changes to the sport, and if those don't work NASCAR doesn't have much to fall back on except contraction.

One of these days, someone needs to sit down and run through the results for the past few years with double-points / Indy Qual points removed and see just how much it actually shook things up in terms of championships, instead of just having more drivers mathematically possible.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

IOwnCalculus posted:

One of these days, someone needs to sit down and run through the results for the past few years with double-points / Indy Qual points removed and see just how much it actually shook things up in terms of championships, instead of just having more drivers mathematically possible.

Easy enough to do. I whipped up tables for 2015 and 2016 which removed points for Indy qualifying, Indy's double points and Sonoma's double points. I also compared what the points looked like before and after the last race.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7...iew?usp=sharing

Looks like Montoya well and truly got screwed in 2015.

ed- fixed math

WindyMan fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2017 around 02:18

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



WindyMan posted:

Easy enough to do. I whipped up tables for 2015 and 2016 which removed points for Indy qualifying, Indy's double points and Sonoma's double points. I also compared what the points looked like before and after the last race.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7...iew?usp=sharing

Looks like Montoya well and truly got screwed in 2015.

ed- fixed math

Yeah Dixie pulled a JJ out of his rear end for that one.

Honestly I think that the points should be based on money earned from race to race, but I'm kinda weird like that.

e: And I realize the potential risk with that belief.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

FuzzySkinner posted:

Honestly I think that the points should be based on money earned from race to race, but I'm kinda weird like that.

Like golf! At golf would never stoop to NASCAR's level and have playoffs at the end of their seaso—



gently caress me

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



WindyMan posted:

Like golf! At golf would never stoop to NASCAR's level and have playoffs at the end of their seaso—



gently caress me

I think doing it by Purse would allow you to kinda sneak in "Double Points" without it seeming as gimmicky. Same with money for getting the pole at Indy.

I don't think there's anything wrong in theory with making the "Majors" in Cup, IMSA, and Indy be worth more than a regular race. The key is making it sure it's only the races that are a part of racing lore, not a race at loving Kansas or Chicagoland.

VikingSkull
Jan 23, 2017

Silent Majority
THE UNDERBOSS





Golf would be way better if the other golfers were allowed to huck golf balls at you when you're on the tee.

iospace
Apr 20, 2020




Grimey Drawer

WindyMan posted:

Like golf! At golf would never stoop to NASCAR's level and have playoffs at the end of their seaso—



gently caress me

I think the reason /that/ happened because no one really knew who the hell the winner of a "season" was. gently caress, the PGA Championship (as in the competition) is in August (and is not in the playoffs). Ah well.

Juicy Juice
Nov 12, 2011

Where we're going, we don't need roads...


Playoffs for a sport where you compete against everyone else at the same time will never make sense to me. That goes for golf and racing (except drag racing, of course).

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


The difference is that nobody really gives a poo poo about the "champion of golf"

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


iospace posted:

I think the reason /that/ happened because no one really knew who the hell the winner of a "season" was. gently caress, the PGA Championship (as in the competition) is in August (and is not in the playoffs). Ah well.

That's a different PGA, I think.

wicka
Jun 28, 2007

Single cylinder posting

Juicy Juice posted:

Playoffs for a sport where you compete against everyone else at the same time will never make sense to me. That goes for golf and racing (except drag racing, of course).

Yeah, playoffs make great sense in sports like the NFL, where attempting a double round-robin would literally kill most of the players before the season ended. Not so much in racing.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Um. Okay

http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/n...-rumors-869136/

quote:

Ford Performance director Dave Pericak has denied rumors that Ford is planning a return to IndyCar Series competition in the near future.

Speaking exclusively to Motorsport.com at Daytona on Friday, Pericak said he was aware of the speculation but insisted that it was unfounded.

“Yeah, there’s rumors flying again, it’s crazy,” he said. “There are no plans for us to return to Indy, I can tell you that we’re not looking to do that.

“It’s partly due to the relevance. IndyCar is fun, it would be great to go and do it, but it’s not why we do what we do. It’s just not at the heart of what we’re doing [in motorsport].”

Road-relevance key

Pericak outlined that Ford would only countenance full factory-backed or works-supported programs that have a direct impact on its street car range, such as its GT supercar or Fiesta in WRC and World Rallycross.

“We use the track to test and improve our technologies, and bring it back into the road cars,” he added. “That’s working well, not just on the GT but other products as well. To be able to leverage that [racing] program to polish the Ford oval and to communicate what Ford is about – our engineering prowess. It’s been really powerful.

“The cool thing about the GT program is how relevant it is to people and cars that we put in driveways. It’s not an untouchable, it’s something that people can associate with. That’s what’s important to us.

“We don’t want to go out there just to race. I mean, racing is fun, but we’re gonna go win and leverage that effort to better all our production cars. If there’s not a direct translation to the cars, then we’re not going to spend the money, time and effort.

“We truly are using racing as a testbed.”

Feels like things are thawing despite the words being uttered here.

We've gone from "No one in the stands/over my dead body" to "It'd be fun to do"

Also how is their NASCAR, WRC, and GT program relevant to their street car program? That seems a bit silly.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





FuzzySkinner posted:

Um. Okay

http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/n...-rumors-869136/


Feels like things are thawing despite the words being uttered here.

We've gone from "No one in the stands/over my dead body" to "It'd be fun to do"

Also how is their NASCAR, WRC, and GT program relevant to their street car program? That seems a bit silly.

their WRC program isn't even full factory anymore, hasn't been for a few years (go watch the official WRC recaps of the Monte Carlo Rally, they refer to them as M-Sport produced cars, which is accurate).

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE



Let it go Fuzzy

VikingSkull
Jan 23, 2017

Silent Majority
THE UNDERBOSS





The NASCAR thing, as the guys who are in the Facebook groups with me will attest, stems from the fact that there's still a ton of NASCAR fans who are brand loyal and root for people who drive specific manufacturers. Win on Sunday sell on Monday isn't really a thing like it was, but there are absolutely a large number of NASCAR fans who root for Ford and have Fords in the driveway. Also, unlike this motley crew of idiots we have here, a majority of those people only watch NASCAR.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



harperdc posted:

their WRC program isn't even full factory anymore, hasn't been for a few years (go watch the official WRC recaps of the Monte Carlo Rally, they refer to them as M-Sport produced cars, which is accurate).

It's just a very puzzling argument for an auto racing program.

Example? Chevy and Honda both have displays up at IMS during "500" weekend to be about their various involvements in racing, and to kinda show case their sports cars. For reference I tweeted photos from that weekend.

Here's what Honda is about

https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/st...106473986490370

https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/st...106562163281921

And here's what Chevy is about :

https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/st...106824269553664

https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/st...106860109885442

I kinda fail to see Ford's argument here. Honda and Chevy seem to be able to display a mix of their racing heritage and street cars just fine using IndyCar as a platform.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



VikingSkull posted:

The NASCAR thing, as the guys who are in the Facebook groups with me will attest, stems from the fact that there's still a ton of NASCAR fans who are brand loyal and root for people who drive specific manufacturers. Win on Sunday sell on Monday isn't really a thing like it was, but there are absolutely a large number of NASCAR fans who root for Ford and have Fords in the driveway. Also, unlike this motley crew of idiots we have here, a majority of those people only watch NASCAR.

a good post and one I can definitely see the reasoning behind.

I don't think being involved in Cup is a bad thing as it does allow them to sell their fans on various Ford cars. Kinda the same with Toyota.

It's just a puzzling argument because via their own logic? They really wouldn't be involved in any form of auto racing currently.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



maybe you shouldnt pick apart their reasoning and just accept that they dont want to pay for an indycar program

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Cygni posted:

maybe you shouldnt pick apart their reasoning and just accept that they dont want to pay for an indycar program

See that makes sense.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013



Honda has supported various forms of open wheel racing for like 50 years. A theory I have (which is completely unsubstantiated and probably bullshit) is the reason they poured so much into F1, F3, F2, Indycar etc. because until the NSX (excluding the weird 60s roadsters) they had no real sports cars to go GT racing with. Like in the mid-80s when they were hammering everybody in F1 the closest things to a sports car they had was the loving Prelude and two Civic based sporty coupes (Integra and CRX).

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013



FuzzySkinner posted:

Also how is their NASCAR, WRC, and GT program relevant to their street car program? That seems a bit silly.

Those things sorta resemble street cars, whereas open-wheel cars do not.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Human Grand Prix posted:

Honda has supported various forms of open wheel racing for like 50 years. A theory I have (which is completely unsubstantiated and probably bullshit) is the reason they poured so much into F1, F3, F2, Indycar etc. because until the NSX (excluding the weird 60s roadsters) they had no real sports cars to go GT racing with. Like in the mid-80s when they were hammering everybody in F1 the closest things to a sports car they had was the loving Prelude and two Civic based sporty coupes (Integra and CRX).

Honda's involvement, success in Indy and F1 is pretty remarkable when you consider what you just typed.

The most unusual thing (and I'd like to see Cygni confirm this) is that they were looking to get into IndyCar since 87 or so. (Jenkins mentions it in a broadcast at a Phoenix race around that time, and MP has posted articles saying there was to be a Judd Honda engine that ultimately failed).

They've really been Indycar's best friend in a lot of ways. They've weathered the storm with them despite some pretty rough times.

e: I've always kinda wanted to construct a "super team" based on drivers who made their names driving with various manufacturers. Ford, chevy would be tough to beat. But man...Honda would have quite the roster considering Senna, Prost, Zanardi, etc, etc.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013



IIRC they were done with one of Brabham's involvement as well, in addition to Judd. I haven't seen much of '87 but I know in '88 and '89 they were just called "Judds".

wicka
Jun 28, 2007

Single cylinder posting

The fact that Honda Japan has little-to-no involvement in their IndyCar program always puzzled me a bit, considering they'd be almost nothing as a road car manufacturer without the US market.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013



In the 95-02 period I think HQ was involved.


Fun fact: Mitsubishi nearly bought Honda at one point. That would have been really fuckin' weird.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Honda pretty aggressively separates their US arm from corporate, from what I understand. Monetarily, all US Honda profit goes back to the US arm and not corporate, for example. There are a couple companies like that, Porsche NA is also really independent. I think it helps them politically,

Uncle probably knows more than I do about that stuff though.

Honda HQ was definitely involved in the CART era, if the number of trips my dad took to Japan are any indicator. They also did a full engineer rotation through the program, which was pretty cool. Fun fact, the computer shift without lift thats now pretty common in a lot of racecars was originally a technology transfer from Honda motorcycles to Honda's CART program, that got worked out over thousands of testing miles at Firebird in the early 90s.

Apparently the Toyota oligarch dude (Akio Toyota, i think) was super into CART and racing though, and was a super chill dude that hung around the paddock for every race.

Cygni fucked around with this message at Jan 27, 2017 around 23:29

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Cygni posted:

Honda pretty aggressively separates their US arm from corporate, from what I understand. Monetarily, all US Honda profit goes back to the US arm and not corporate, for example. There are a couple companies like that, Porsche NA is also really independent. I think it helps them politically,

Uncle probably knows more than I do about that stuff though.

Honda HQ was definitely involved in the CART era, if the number of trips my dad took to Japan are any indicator. They also did a full engineer rotation through the program, which was pretty cool. Fun fact, the computer shift without lift thats now pretty common in a lot of racecars was originally a technology transfer from Honda motorcycles to Honda's CART program, that got worked out over thousands of testing miles at Firebird in the early 90s.

Apparently the Toyota oligarch dude (Akio Toyota, i think) was super into CART and racing though, and was a super chill dude that hung around the paddock for every race.

I'm kinda saddened that CART/IRL split right as Toyota was about to enter into the show. Toyota seemed beyond excited to race at Indy...invested heavily within IMSA, The Atlantics to get involved. Then the year FINALLY comes and they're in Michigan on the day they would have made their Indy 500 debut.

If I can find it...during one of the old CART broadcasts, they even had a commercial bragging about how they were "on the road to Indy" in 1995 or so.

Credit to Toyota for throwing a lot of money at sponsoring races too...it's a drat shame they're not involved any more.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





Cygni posted:

Apparently the Toyota oligarch dude (Akio Toyota, i think) was super into CART and racing though, and was a super chill dude that hung around the paddock for every race.

Yeah the original Gazoo Racing as a grassroots deal (and at the Nurburgring 24H even) was guided by Akio Toyoda, and even now as he's the president of the whole company, they're trying to earn that more. It's not a bad move at all.

BMB5150
Oct 24, 2010

All Aboard the Banana Boat!



Cross post

BMB5150 posted:



This is what happens when you work as an order puller for party rentals in Seattle and a Turn 10 business administrator is throwing a thing for Josef Newgarden from Indycars and you catch wind of this person coming. I'm guessing for FM7 is going to have something more with Indycar racing if Newgarden came up here for a thing.

And Newgarden signed the hotwheels car so pretty cool little thing I got.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Phoenix is getting some, ah, renovations...

quote:

SHIFTING OF START-FINISH LINE: The start and finish line for Phoenix International Raceway will be shifted in Turn Two to before the "dog leg"

"By shifting the start/finish line to Phoenix Raceway's famed dog leg, fans will be perfectly positioned to watch one of the most exciting turns in motorsports," said Bryan R. Sperber, president of Phoenix Raceway, in a news release.



They're demolishing the old stands along the front straight, and renovating the Bobby Allison stands, which are already the newest ones.

A 1/2-side tunnel for easier access to the garage will be nice, though.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


so they're doing a Darlington, basically

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I wouldn't put it past them to not renumber the turns or anything, though

I'm all for the upgraded infield / garage, it looks like it'll be similar to the garage setup at Fontana. Gonna be weird without the front straight stands and the old press box, though.

Bentai
Jul 8, 2004


NERF THIS!



IOwnCalculus posted:

A 1/2-side tunnel for easier access to the garage will be nice, though.
This will be much nicer, best change.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013



Kanaan has 7-11 sponsorship apparently. Good stuff, they have nice looking colours.

Bentai
Jul 8, 2004


NERF THIS!



They sponsored him back pre-split right?
*edit*
Yeah they did in 2003.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Bentai posted:

They sponsored him back pre-split right?
*edit*
Yeah they did in 2003.

IIRC Kool Green was kinda behind it with 7/11 kinda backing it to "mask" the funding.

Unsure if that's true or not.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Speaking of TK, drat he's got some good taste in cars.



Obviously one of those was a prize, but a Carerra GT to go with it?

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CactusWeasle
Aug 1, 2006
It's not a party until the bomb squad says it is

My honest first thought was "how does an IndyCar driver afford all of those?"

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