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This isn't some loving stand that the government sets up with "Free Heroin!!" These are programs that are when the addicts don't respond to other forms of treatment and are just stuck on the stuff. These are programs that have had a good amount of success in Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands with a program starting up in my province of BC. It's a way to reduce harm to the users and save the taxpayers money by not overloading the health care system. And it can do it fairly compassionately to people who are genuinely suffering. If you can spend 10 minutes in a place like the DTES and think that the people there genuinely want the situation they are in, well then you're a loving idiot.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:06
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I think I saw a Vice piece on the situation in BC. They don't necessarily provide heroin, but will test any brought in by users to ensure it's "safe" as well as clean needles, cookware, and a safe space to shoot up. It's not going to get anyone off heroin who does not want to be, but it's pretty decent harm reduction compared to shooting up in some old row house on a semen-encrusted mattress using the needle from the dude next to you after he blacks out.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:16
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LITERALLY SHAKING posted:in some old row house on a semen-encrusted mattress how was your new years
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Jan 1, 2017 20:23
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=220106elsewhere posted:I want to believe Congressman Lindsay Graham spent New Year's Eve shitposting on Something Awful.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:23
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TBeats posted:how was your new years Not that bad, that's for drat sure. I smoked a couple joints in my lovely apartment. Couple months left in this shithole....
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Jan 1, 2017 20:27
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LITERALLY SHAKING posted:I think I saw a Vice piece on the situation in BC. They don't necessarily provide heroin, but will test any brought in by users to ensure it's "safe" as well as clean needles, cookware, and a safe space to shoot up. Yeah there has been the supervised injection site for a while now, with a couple temporary ones popping up to help deal with the current crisis. The program to supply prescription heroin started up in September and I don't know how far along it is (poo poo moves slow probably). The interesting thing is that even the relatively conservative politicians who have to deal with this issue come around to the harm reduction and prescribing heroin directly. Nothing else works, unless you are happy with the alternative of just having a crime infested area that is a money sink in terms of health, housing, infrastructure etc. The addicts don't die quickly enough to have the problem get resolved on its own either. I think we just need to face facts that there always will be a segment of the population who are totally useless and take steps to ensure they don't cause harm to themselves or others.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:28
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Jan 1, 2017 20:30
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loving  poo poo, I mean I'm actually Lindsey Graham.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:31
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I know the whole needle exchange thing pisses some people off, and yes it does seem counterproductive at face values, but the spread of HIV and other STIs are a greater problem in the long run.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:33
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LITERALLY SHAKING posted:You can't, really. Junkies have always been and will always be. It's not like opium just showed up from a lab one day. That probably isn't wrong but I really don't want to live in a society that actively chooses to let addicts die  Dead Reckoning posted:Docs freely handing out Norco and Percocet scrips is apparently part of what got us into this mess in the first place. Decriminalization of amounts suitable for individual consumption, sure, I can get on board with that. I can even see the logic in handing out clean needles to people who score their smack elsewhere. But directly providing the means for people to gently caress up their lives isn't something I think makes any sense whatsoever. Should we hand out packs of cigarettes to smokers too? I'm not really sure where this concept of 'handing out' comes from. I've never been in for treatment for alcoholism, but I'm pretty sure people who are going to be hit by physical withdrawal symptoms will be weaned off it. Providing clean heroin as part of a treatment program with an endgame of getting them off it is a far, far better option than letting them do whatever they have to do to score. You'll see petty crime drop too. I guess I just have a lot more sympathy for addicts since I've come through AA and met a lot of good people who lost who they were.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:42
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Two Finger posted:That probably isn't wrong but I really don't want to live in a society that actively chooses to let addicts die Bootstraps. Until a lot of wealthy fucks and politicians start seeing family members die off in droves, that's going to be the rally cry. Nothing will change until everyone suffers at least equally, usually disproportionately to the poor. But what else would you expect from a populace as willfully ignorant as us. We're just lucky Trump isn't Duterte.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:50
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priznat posted:This isn't some loving stand that the government sets up with "Free Heroin!!" These are programs that are when the addicts don't respond to other forms of treatment and are just stuck on the stuff. Ah yes, the old "let's just apply this program which works for 1500 people in Switzerland to [the continent of North America]" solution. Even if we take (1) an anecdote about Evelyn the unicorn junkie who bootstrapped herself to becoming an au pair and (2) a Dutch activist website for proof that free heroin is effective, you completely avoid addressing the real concern about political backlash in the more heterogeneous, more conservative, more populous, less educated, less wealthy countries of Canada and the US. Moreover, no matter how you dress it up, what you're describing is literally "Free Heroin!!" and will be taken as such by the voting public. The reason treatment programs often fail is that heroin is extremely addictive. You're removing barriers to becoming addicted and handwaving both the real detriment that will pose for public health and the moral/philosophical problem of getting poor people high for free so they quit making embarrassing headlines.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:54
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at the date posted:Ah yes, the old "let's just apply this program which works for 1500 people in Switzerland to [the continent of North America]" solution. Even if we take (1) an anecdote about Evelyn the unicorn junkie who bootstrapped herself to becoming an au pair and (2) a Dutch activist website for proof that free heroin is effective, you completely avoid addressing the real concern about political backlash in the more heterogeneous, more conservative, more populous, less educated, less wealthy countries of Canada and the US. Guess we should just let them die then
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Jan 1, 2017 20:57
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at the date posted:Ah yes, the old "let's just apply this program which works for 1500 people in Switzerland to [the continent of North America]" solution. Even if we take (1) an anecdote about Evelyn the unicorn junkie who bootstrapped herself to becoming an au pair and (2) a Dutch activist website for proof that free heroin is effective, you completely avoid addressing the real concern about political backlash in the more heterogeneous, more conservative, more populous, less educated, less wealthy countries of Canada and the US. did a junkie kill your dog or something
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Jan 1, 2017 20:58
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TBeats posted:Guess we should just let them die then I will contribute to your heroin fund.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:59
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Jesus people it isn't even the second 
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Jan 1, 2017 21:01
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Godholio posted:I will contribute to your heroin fund. Shut up, Godholio.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:01
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Man I'm just glad I don't think like that anymore.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:01
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TBeats posted:Guess we should just let them die then Right, because there are only two options: legalize and distribute heroin gratis, or wall off East Vancouver for a battle royale.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:02
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at the date posted:Right, because there are only two options: legalize and distribute heroin to the masses, or wall off East Vancouver for a battle royale. Well since you posted two paragraphs about what not to do but nothing about what to do, I can only assume you actually believe this.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:03
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TBeats posted:Well since you posted two paragraphs about what not to do but nothing about what to do, I can only assume you actually believe this. I'm arguing that legalization + distribution makes the status quo worse. If a schoolbus is sliding into the river, doing nothing is better than giving it a shove.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:06
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at the date posted:I'm arguing that legalization + distribution makes the status quo worse. If a schoolbus is sliding into the river, doing nothing is better than giving it a shove. I guess I didn't imply the question hard enough: what do you think should be done?
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Jan 1, 2017 21:08
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Well at least it wasn't gun chat I guess
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Jan 1, 2017 21:10
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priznat posted:Man I'm just glad I don't think like that anymore. And this sanctimonious poo poo doesn't help anybody. It's easy to propose a simple solution on an Internet forum and handwave political reality. Your idea would create new addicts who would go right back to illegal channels when the Conservatives (or whoever) ride popular resentment of your utopian free drugs program to a majority again.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:12
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Jesus people it isn't even the second Look at this guy thinking we can have nice things 
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Jan 1, 2017 21:16
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How do treatment centers create new addicts?
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Jan 1, 2017 21:17
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Nevermind. I need to learn that some people won't have their minds changed.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:18
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TBeats posted:I guess I didn't imply the question hard enough: what do you think should be done? I don't know. I do know there's no silver bullet, no matter what I read in TIME Magazine last month. I don't see a downside, for example, to hiring more EMTs, funding hospitals and methadone clinics, and clean needle distribution. Maybe decriminalizing possession is a part of the process. Making society at large complicit in creating and perpetuating addiction is not a solution, either pragmatically or morally.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:22
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TBeats posted:Nevermind. I need to learn that some people won't have their minds changed. lol gently caress off if you want to argue, argue, but what you've been doing is not it you passive-aggressive little queen (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 1, 2017 21:22
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Two Finger posted:Well at least it wasn't gun chat I guess Hell, with economies of scale and some lucrative government contracts we could bring down even that price if we're talking large enough numbers. We can include other "people" who are a drain on society such as those who look at their phones while walking, don't wash their hands, and those who believe that Tom Brady did nothing wrong.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:24
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Surprised Canada with it's social safety net and UHC still results in a heroin epidemic there, especially since the US looks north for health policy decisions Considering how much of Canada resembles the Dakotas and rural Maine this makes me wonder how much of their economy is organic, and how much of it is just rich foreigners pumping in cash for real estate and citizenship
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Jan 1, 2017 21:24
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Naked Bear posted:Well, we could just take these "defectives" out back and solve their problems for about $0.40 a pop. In red China blues (which is a great read btw) the government would bill the family for the bullet. That keeps costs right down!
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Jan 1, 2017 21:29
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at the date posted:lol gently caress off Thats.. uh.. exactly what I'm doing. I had something posted there but edited it out because look how you're responding just to me saying I'm not going to argue with you anymore you unstable prick. Your mind won't be changed. Arguing with you about it would be like running into a brick wall over and over again. You might be dumb enough to do that but I'm not. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 1, 2017 21:31
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TBeats posted:Thats.. uh.. exactly what I'm doing. I had something posted there but edited it out because look how you're responding just to me saying I'm not going to argue with you anymore you unstable prick. You weren't arguing in the first place, just asking a rhetorical question I had already answered. And now you're doing the N4I thing with the
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Jan 1, 2017 21:33
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Like, I dunno, I get that nobody changes minds by arguing on the Internet, but I like having the argument and don't just sigh and throw up my hands at the first sign of disagreement. It's not very sportsmanlike.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:36
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at the date posted:Like, I dunno, I get that your mind and priznat's mind are not going to change, but I like having the argument and don't just sigh and throw up my hands at the first sign of disagreement. It's not very sportsmanlike. Here I'll help: you are absolutely right about everything you said.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:36
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TBeats posted:It's the internet brah. I don't care that much. Christ you're insufferable.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:41
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Cat Army 
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Edit: nvm I was looking at a way old part of the thread and didn't refresh
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Jan 1, 2017 21:44
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:Look at this guy thinking we can have nice things I don't know what's worse, the slap-fighting (seriously, stop) or the passive aggressive reports that I know are coming I hate all of you.
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Jan 1, 2017 21:47
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I don't know what's worse, the slap-fighting (seriously, stop) or the passive aggressive reports that I know are coming Reported for hate speech. 
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Jan 1, 2017 21:52
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