Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


From the public accounts it sounds like DC truly saved the ship, so good work dude. The worst I ever had to deal with was a couple smallish fires (which I mean, sucked, but were very low probably of losing the ship over).

The initial seconds are what matters the most in an incident, and regardless of why the collision happened, saving the ship is all that mattered then. Great job running a tight ship.

If you can't answer then obviously, don't, but if you were asleep I am curious why you were the one setting GQ and not someone from the bridge. I was a bridge weenie for my shipboard tour and I know the first thing one of us did during anything was start piping, it would have been very bizarre for someone off the bridge to set GE/GQ/etc.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Mr. Nice! posted:

I'm guessing by that he means he called the bridge and told them to set it unless he was staying in the at-sea cabin walked around the corner to hit it.

We could pipe from any phone, mainly for stuff like medical emergencies that is what I assumed he did, but still the bridge shouldn't have to wait for the DCA to call to set it. That's under ideal conditions, and having just crashed is obviously not ideal.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Again I am assuming here, that he piped via the phone the worded pipe for GC and someone on the bridge hit the alarm after the fact but I am way out on a limb here.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


I used the term GE which is General Emergency which is different for some ships since it's strictly damage control without manning the guns, so to speak. I don't know if the navy uses it.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Logistically speaking, if the ship is going to be out of comission for a while, will they PCS people or at least TDY them? I assume a ship being floated to the US for drydock doesn't need a full crew.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Conflicting reports between the US Navy and the Japan Coast Guard as to time of the Fitz collision: http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/06/japanese-coast-guard-investigates-a-one-hour-delay-in-reporting-the-uss-fitzgerald-collision/

quote:

The Japanese Coast Guard said initially that the crash occurred at 2:20 a.m., since the Filipino cargo ship had called in the report at 2:25 a.m. But after conducting a thorough review with crew members aboard the cargo ship, it was concluded to be closer to 1:30 a.m. than previously thought.

To make matters more confusing, U.S. officials are still sticking with the 2:30 a.m. timeframe for the collision.

Navy Spokesman Cmdr. Ron Flanders said that “[an earlier collision time] is not our understanding.”

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Another Fitz report, with a little grain of salt though. As has been discussed, it's a lot of rumors and hearsay until we get a complete investigation:

http://taskandpurpose.com/report-uss-fitzgerald-warnings-deadly-impact/

quote:

In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship’s captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald “suddenly” steamed onto a course to cross its path.

The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula’s report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters.

The U.S. Navy declined to comment and Reuters was not able to independently verify the account.


I have to wonder why the ship would signal with light vice the 5+ short blast international danger signal. I also wonder how a lookout didn't see a flashing light.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Wouldn't 1am be a fresh crew, relieved around 0030/0045?

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Interesting. I would have assumed 4 hour watches 0000-0400 relieved at quarter/half till or 6 hour watches 0000-0600. I also find it kinda crazy not to have a helm, a lookout, and a deck and/or conn on the bridge at all times. My experience (USCG) is certainly tangential to Navy but I always assumed the navy was an order of magnitude more watch-redundant than us.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


thepacketrat posted:

Good thing they didn't have breathalyzers at Captain's call when my ship was pulling out of St. Thomas. Half the wardroom would have been toast.

We pulled out of Manta Ecuador still all so drunk that the Captain threw the nav brief out the window, asked anyone who stood duty last night to raise their hands then pointed "Deck, Conn, Helm, Throttle, Lookout, Navigation" then collapsed back in his chair and put his hat down low to keep the sun out.

All I heard from CIC via sound powered phones was retching into a trashcan.

That was a patrol with a Navy group and it sucked so bad because they had insane liberty restrictions that nobody told us about like no khaki shorts.

That was the same patrol where we asked for the battlegroup's coordinates, got them, steamed there, found nothing. Called back and they had given us North instead of South. So we crossed the equator like 4 times that night.

The highlight of that patrol though was one of the port calls where someone (the Commodore) decided to do a simulated attack on the Cruiser with small boats without telling the captain of the ship who very nearly weapons released on them.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Godholio posted:

Nearest 70mm theater is almost 3 hours way, in another state.

I'm near Boston and the last time I wanted to see a 70mm movie the nearest theater was loving Pensylvania.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


A lightly redacted report on the Fitz collision is available here. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3934451/Navy-Report-on-USS-Fitzgerald.pdf

It looks legit and but is FOUO so if this isn't legit then let me know asap.

That damage looks incredible.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


We made everyone do that drill where you put flash gear on them backwards and they have to egress blind and man we thought it was a hilarious joke but poo poo was real for Ftz.

I hope to read the report on what happened before the crash but this really shows how DC can save a ship.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Yeah I don't think gender plays a role in competence as a naval officer. Some of the timeline stuff still amazes me like how TVS had to set GQ rather than the bridge doing it, then the 1MC went down I'm sure that helped.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Take this with the appropriate grain of sand given it's just someone on facebook but regarding the CO of the Fitz:

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


I have heard no lookout and no radar but have not seen any kind of confirmation and that seems unfathomable to me.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Mr. Nice! posted:

Thanks for the :lol: McNally.


A lot of times ships won't have bridgewing lookouts assigned because there are 4-6 people on watch in the pilothouse anyways that are supposed to be looking out. Bringwing lookouts are only usually up during evolutions or any low vis situation.

No radar is loving dumb.

We always had a nonrate on lookout watch and I always just assumed the navy regs were stricter than the coast guards.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Well I guess between the port side of the Fitz and the starboard side of the Mccain you can make 1 full ship.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


I also think they call it search and rescue until they have full accountability because there's no way to know if they're overboard or trapped inside, etc.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


The president stepping in to offer wise words in this hour. "That's too bad"

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


This article has some exterior hull pictures of the damage. USA today article

Looks like a wide but not that deep impact, from a pretty shallow angle (guessing the ships were on similar courses).

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


OTO Melera's 76mm's on a lot of CG and Navy ships (maybe not anymore) use magnetic tape drives for fire control, like you'd have to write the firing poo poo to the tape then run it through the gun to make it go boom boom. Of course my ship had an 8-track player in the wardroom...so...

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


So how many admirals have ever been relieved?

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Yeah I've seen articles asking if the chinese hacked the ship (the answer is no). I know there have been proofs of concept about hacking AIS, but AIS isn't being used as a primary means of navigation (I loving hope). If GPS goes down there's likely two scenarios.

1) the ship loses it's connection to GPS, switch to other means (qualified bridge crew should be able to lay a paper fix down and get a track going in half of the current fix interval which varies depending on the situation...in the strait like that, it's probably 3 or 5 minute fixes). You can also use radio direction finding to get lines of bearing and range either TO you (from say a SLQ-32) or from you (broadcasting and having a ship with a working GPS give you a position). Hell, before all that there are likely a hundred other GPS enabled devices on the ship, I pissed off some navigation drill evaluators during a "loss of GPS drill" when I pulled my phone out and used that for a position.

2) the entire GPS network goes down, GPS on all devices fails to work. If you're within sight or radar range of land, you can use paper navigation, if not, you can bust out a sextant but to be fair if you're out of sight of land chances of running into another boat is low, post extra lookouts.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


There's an AIS track of the other ship going straight until the collision so based on that it looks like the JSM cut in front.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrA36GzHNs

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Interesting article on lack of sleep. That was definitely a think in the guard, I once stood 28 straight hours of watch and I basically told the Ops LT "Ok Ops, I am going to go to sleep because I just blinked and fell asleep on my feet for 15 minutes, either you take the watch or qualify my break-in he's good to go." And lo and behold my break-in got the sign of the cross.

http://taskandpurpose.com/fitzgerald-mccain-sleep-deprivation-navy/

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Just build more Cyclones those were awesome and I was glad to get shanghai'd on one for a week.

Literally, I volunteered to spend the day out off Key West on one so the crew could have thanksgiving in port, and we get out there and next thing we know we're enroute to GITMO. I barely made it back to Key West to sail on my actual ship (they were considering just doing an at-sea transfer but I was like I ONLY HAVE TWO SETS OF CLOTHES!)

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Every ship I was on had a savvy DC or EM who kept a cordless drill with the appropriate nut driver on hand in case they had to steer manually.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Our Piss-o (who definitely smoked dope) "dropped" a bunch of tests once.


What a golden story. I wonder who leaked it? We should wait for the full story to trickle out.

Elendil004 fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Aug 27, 2017

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Looks like some random guys at Norfolk have been running a makeshift, illegal police force for the last decade.

http://taskandpurpose.com/norfolk-naval-shipyard-secret-police/?utm_content=tp-facebook&utm_campaign=news&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Really curious if base COs were ignorant (or willfully ignorant) or just complicit or believed it was a legit operation.

I mean if you showed up and there was an apparently legit tenant police department what would have to happen for you to say "are they legit?".

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Electronics are great but you gotta keep the paper skills handy. More than once in a dicey transit our entire nav system poo poo the bed and I was one of the few QM types who could crank a fix onto a paper chart in a few seconds and start a DR plot while lookouts fumbled with alidades looking for stuff to shoot for a fix.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


The best part about patrol boats was no workday underway. I mean, if poo poo had to get done you got it done 100% and that might mean only 4 hours of sleep, but there was just no busy work.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


piL posted:

The advantage of required moboard solutions is that it gives the CO/XO/SWO/etc the ability to spot heck that standing orders are being followed, other than by hiding on a dark bridge for hours at a time. But it's also a huge distraction especially if the requirement is anything more than relative motion vectors.

No joke our XO used to hide in the machine space under the bridge, and sneak through the scuttle and pop out randomly when watchstanders were loving off. Dude was a ninja.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


In today's navy, does the CAG lead strikes or is it much more of a paperwork and just fly to maintain quals position?

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


M_Gargantua posted:

My RDC was in goonfleet, He had an Eve screenshot background on his computer and I called him on it.

I forget how it came out, but in boot camp someone found out I played world of warcraft. One night after lights out my company commander (like an RDC) yells "HAM! GET IN HERE" I loving poo poo and run in there. He turns his laptop around and shows me his WoW character and literally says "Ok how do I spec this guy. Also you can't tell anyone about this."

Elendil004 fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Sep 29, 2017

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


LingcodKilla posted:

Did you gently caress up his spec? Not like he can tell anyone.

No he was a nice guy, I got along, respectfully with all my CC's and even hung out a few months later for some beers since I was back on the base for something.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


I mean it's important that nav types know how to do moboards and understand the concepts, which in turn helps with understanding motion, relative motion, target angle, etc. I'd never want to use one over a computer though for like no poo poo navigation.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Friend of mine just got orders to a japan DDG (63) as an STG out of school, anything I should scare him with?

Edit: maybe Slavic Crime Yacht has a need for someone with top notch navigational skills with navigation equipment from a century ago. I also know semaphore and flashing light.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


"We were engaging in a simulated training dogfight and our maneuvers happened to create a penis like shape"

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply