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JFairfax posted:Labour's MPs had an opportunity to ride the wave of a popular new anti-establishment leader and they've spent 2 years trying to destroy him and have instead destroyed their own party. Corbyn is not popular and never has been. His supporters are going to blame everyone but him for his failure - as you're doing here - but it's not a convincing fiction.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:39
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Pissflaps posted:Corbyn is not popular and never has been. Neither is yours. We'll never know if corbyn could have been popular because the PLP spent a full year making GBS threads in his mouth.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:42
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Miftan posted:Neither is yours. We'll never know if corbyn could have done anything on his own without a full year of the PLP making GBS threads in his mouth. His woeful performance since becoming leader is evidence that he isn't capable of leading the Labour Party. That's not fiction, it's what's actually happened.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:43
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Pissflaps posted:Corbyn is not popular and never has been. he won the labour election comfortably and was drawing crowds of people all over the country. he was by far the most popular politician in the country at the time.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:43
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Jan 2, 2017 18:44
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JFairfax posted:he won the labour election comfortably and was drawing crowds of people all over the country. There's a lot of people in the uk. Drawing crowds is not evidence of widespread popularity. A mistake his supporters make - and one you're making now - is conflating the two.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:46
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Pissflaps posted:His woeful performance since becoming leader is evidence that he isn't capable of leading the Labour Party. Explain what "performance" is. Explain how it is his fault, his fault alone, that has had negative effect on said performance. Explain why it's his fault the media has attacked him at every corner while letting the Tories crash the country into brexit. Three questions. Easy ones. Go. Failure to answer them means you have to gently caress off up your own arsehole.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:48
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Regarde Aduck posted:Explain what "performance" is. He's the leader of the Labour Party. The buck stops with him. That's what leadership means.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:49
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ah yes drawing crowds all over the country, larger crowds than any other politician is not indicative of wide spread support. and this is why labour have hosed themselves over.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:49
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JFairfax posted:ah yes drawing crowds all over the country, larger crowds than any other politician Do you have the data to back up this claim?
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Jan 2, 2017 18:51
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The idea of 'Windows for Submarines' is pretty  even before the bit about it being based on XP.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:53
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lol yes, the data is that the other candidates in the labour election could barely fill a loving garden shed. the tories never dare show their face in public, and even nigel loving farage couldn't get the same crowds all over the UK. it was loving obvious that there was a ground swell of energised support for Corbyn that labour could have capitalised on but instead decided to strangle at birth. then Bernie happened, trump happened and they all look even loving stupider than they did at the time.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:53
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JFairfax posted:lol yes, the data is that the other candidates in the labour election could barely fill a loving garden shed. That's a no then. This 'ground swell of energised support' joined the Labour Party - and it's made gently caress all difference because the vast majority of the country remain utterly unimpressed with his performance. Quite how an unpopular Labour Party leader in the UK is the answer to Trump remains a mystery to me.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:55
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Guavanaut posted:The idea of 'Windows for Submarines' is pretty I mean, in fairness, I don't imagine that the UK's submarines are bluetooth enabled so that you could stand on the coast and hack one of them.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:00
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pissflaps no-one bothered to keep a tally of the crowds at the rallies but it was clear that corbyn was getting large crowds, larger than anyone else. the point is that anti-establishment sentiment is in vogue, corbyn's message resonated with people and he had to deal with the right wing media in the UK, which is let's face it ALL of the media more or less. if the labour party had got on board supporting Corbyn rather than trying to get rid of him from the second he got elected leader they might have had a chance. their behaviour was absolutely appalling, short sighted and symptomatic of everything that is wrong with the political class.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:00
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JFairfax posted:pissflaps no-one bothered to keep a tally of the crowds at the rallies but it was clear that corbyn was getting large crowds, larger than anyone else. There was that rally he had in Sheffield. Weeks before Labour lost a by election there. These rallies are utterly meaningless.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:02
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Guavanaut posted:The idea of 'Windows for Submarines' is pretty Nah, modern Windows is pretty solid, and 10 in particular is designed to scale for pretty much any purpose. Not XP though. Also 'Windows for Submarines' is pretty funny.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:04
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idk seems okay tbh maybe he should stop shilling for lockheed to install windows 10 for £40mil and walk away when it refuses to run after 28 days spent on deployment as it hasn't been able to verify its Genuine (tm) Microsoft (r) Status (c) due to being u/w
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Jan 2, 2017 19:10
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In a shocking turn of events, the British press find it easier to praise fascism than it does to give a mild social democrat a platform to speak.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:10
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Gonzo McFee posted:In a shocking turn of events, the British press find it easier to praise fascism than it does to give a mild social democrat a platform to speak. yeah corbyn is not even that loving radical, that's the worst thing about all of this.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:13
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Pissflaps posted:There was that rally he had in Sheffield. Weeks before Labour lost a by election there. A more significant point is that his opponents were utterly incapable of presenting any decent alternative at all, and this actually is shown in the rally attendances. If Corbyn stood down tomorrow we have no idea what the PLP could come up with that hadn't already lost them two elections.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:14
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Remember that time Corbyn tried to point out that UK rail franchises aren't very good and the media spent weeks/months trying to prove that a single train in the middle of the day had spare seats for at least a few minutes?
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Jan 2, 2017 19:15
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I like to look at the overall trends - just haven't managed to find some good datasets that go back further 2010 currently so if anyone has any suggestions i'd be grateful.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:16
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The only thing i'll say in defence of this is that high-risk technical operations temd to minimise that risk everywhere possible by using proven technologies. I believe NASA and other scientific institutes still use some pretty archaic software and hardware because it's reliably reliable. But somehow i can't bring myself to give our governments and MoD the benefit of the doubt in this respect.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:20
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"Mr Corbyn on a scale of one to ten, how angry are you about the snakes in your party?" "Hmm probably 7 or 8... 7 1/2? Let's say 7."
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Jan 2, 2017 19:20
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Oberleutnant posted:The only thing i'll say in defence of this is that high-risk technical operations temd to minimise that risk everywhere possible by using proven technologies. I believe NASA and other scientific institutes still use some pretty archaic software and hardware because it's reliably reliable. it's a miracle the paint on the submarines isn't reactive with water or something
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Jan 2, 2017 19:23
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Laradus posted:I like to look at the overall trends - just haven't managed to find some good datasets that go back further 2010 currently so if anyone has any suggestions i'd be grateful. Mark Pack has a spreadsheet of (nearly) all polls since the war. Wikipedia also does trend line graphs for polling periods in each Parliament.  OwlFancier posted:I mean, in fairness, I don't imagine that the UK's submarines are bluetooth enabled so that you could stand on the coast and hack one of them. Like Dame Shirley Bassey, Bluetooth doesn't have the range. JFairfax posted:ah yes drawing crowds all over the country, larger crowds than any other politician is not indicative of wide spread support. Rallies aren't indicative of electoral support, though, in the same way Daily Express polls don't indicate a majority of British people want to summarily execute every refugee. For example, there was that council by-election in September where Labour spectacularly lost a safe ward in Sheffield only three weeks after Corbyn held a 2,500-strong rally in the city. Or, most famously, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROKXlvYMKQc TinTower fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 19:25
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I'll look at them - thank you. 
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Jan 2, 2017 19:32
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TinTower posted:Mark Pack has a spreadsheet of (nearly) all polls since the war. None of Sheffield's MPs deigned to turn up with Corbyn at the rally. Also it's a loving council election, no-one gives a gently caress about them.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:33
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JFairfax posted:None of Sheffield's MPs deigned to turn up with Corbyn at the rally. So was that the wrong sort of rally or something ?
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Jan 2, 2017 19:41
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JFairfax posted:None of Sheffield's MPs deigned to turn up with Corbyn at the rally. Council elections that people "don't give a gently caress about" don't get lost on 20% swings in a ward where Labour got over 50% percent of the vote just four months previous.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:42
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JFairfax posted:yeah corbyn is not even that loving radical, that's the worst thing about all of this. He is on the one thing he keeps polling against with the general public - his membership of CND and being very anti-military. The majority of the public don't appear (based on limited polling) to trust a leader who wont defend the country when push came to shove. Note they also largely agree with his other policies but his military stance means he is unelectable to govern the country; its why Clive Lewis who has largely the same social outlook yet a very different defence outlook could do very well.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:45
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Pissflaps posted:So was that the wrong sort of rally or something ? I'm saying the MPs could have joined Corbyn and helped campaign for the election. the number of labour voters turning out for a LOCAL election is not a reflection on Corbyn, it's a reflection on the local party's organisational ability. Also that no-one gives a gently caress about council by-elections. TinTower posted:Council elections that people "don't give a gently caress about" don't get lost on 20% swings in a ward where Labour got over 50% percent of the vote just four months previous. well clearly they do. e/ and 'they don't give a gently caress' is the turnout, what was the turnout percentage for that council by-election?
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Jan 2, 2017 19:47
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TinTower posted:Council elections that people "don't give a gently caress about" don't get lost on 20% swings in a ward where Labour got over 50% percent of the vote just four months previous. The point is that council elections are not particularly representative of anything on a national level. ukle posted:He is on the one thing he keeps polling against with the general public - his membership of CND and being very anti-military. The majority of the public don't appear (based on limited polling) to trust a leader who wont defend the country when push came to shove. Note they also largely agree with his other policies but his military stance means he is unelectable to govern the country; its why Clive Lewis who has largely the same social outlook yet a very different defence outlook could do very well. By 'defend the country' do you mean 'launch a futile retaliatory nuclear strike after the UK has already been destroyed'?
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Jan 2, 2017 19:47
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JFairfax posted:I'm saying the MPs could have joined Corbyn and helped campaign for the election. The rally in Sheffield wasn't for the Labour Party. It was specifically a pro-Corbyn rally.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:49
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You arseholes deserve everything 2017 has to offer. Unfortunately I fear you're insulated enough from the worst. I want to see your bitching and moaning about Corbyn this and Libdem fightback that slowly give way to screaming as fascists make your life hell. Like maybe there's more to this whole shitshow than the fact you don't like Corbyn. Like maybe the disaster that is 2016/2017 is bigger than one man not being your preferred candidate. Like maybe personal charisma isn't actually the only characteristic needed by a leader. I'll say it clearly for you Pissflaps. The public want a racist, xenophobic demagogue as ruler. It is NOT Jeremy Corbyn's job to give them one. It is not ANYBODIES job to give them one. If the only way for Labour to win is to become monstrous THE GAME IS ALREADY LOST.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:49
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jabby posted:By 'defend the country' do you mean 'launch a futile retaliatory nuclear strike after the UK has already been destroyed'? Yes.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:51
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Pissflaps posted:The rally in Sheffield wasn't for the Labour Party. It was specifically a pro-Corbyn rally. for his re-election? maybe the local MPs could have tried supporting him? maybe the votes for the lib dems were a reaction to Local Sheffield MPs not supporting corbyn? Regarde Aduck posted:You arseholes deserve everything 2017 has to offer. Unfortunately I fear you're insulated enough from the worst. I want to see your bitching and moaning about Corbyn this and Libdem fightback that slowly give way to screaming as fascists make your life hell. and this, Corbyn has some principles and that is good, positive. Just the forces of negativity, hate and injustice are in the ascendancy.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:52
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Regarde Aduck posted:You arseholes deserve everything 2017 has to offer. Unfortunately I fear you're insulated enough from the worst. I want to see your bitching and moaning about Corbyn this and Libdem fightback that slowly give way to screaming as fascists make your life hell. Labour managed to win elections between 1997 and 2005 without being 'monstrous'. With the right leader they can do so again.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:52
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JFairfax posted:e/ and 'they don't give a gently caress' is the turnout, what was the turnout percentage for that council by-election? 28%. Turnout in May was 30%. jabby posted:The point is that council elections are not particularly representative of anything on a national level. If Labour can't keep a hold of a safe ward in Sheffield with the amount of support Corbyn has, what hope do they have in the marginals? JFairfax posted:for his re-election? So to protest the local MPs not supporting Corbyn, Labour voters decide to vote for the Lib Dem and reduce Labour's control of the local council? How does this work, exactly? TinTower fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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