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Hopless Heaven, more like Pixel Perfect Hell. That was just about everything bad about the hack condensed in one level. All it was missing were sections with too many enemies.
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Feb 21, 2018 04:34
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:22 |
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 Welcome back to the Zelda 3 Randomizer! There was a run of this last year for this thread done by CirclMaster and CombatLobster so why are we doing it again? Well the answer is simple. KEYSANITY The Randomizer received a lot of updates over the past year, including tons of new player character sprites, randomization logic updates, and new modes of play. One of these new modes is Keysanity, a mode that randomizes everything, including the location of all the Dungeon Keys, Big Keys, Maps and Compasses in the game. Need to progress through Eastern Palace? Well the Big Key might be located in Skull Woods. Or the reward for turning in the Mushroom to the Witch might be a Small Key for the Ice Palace. Basically, this mode randomizes things even more, and is more fun in my opinion. Runs these days are all designed to be 100% beatable and just reliant on player skill. There should be no impossible situations like occur with some other randomizers (Ask me about not being able to get Gravity Suit because it was in a room full of water and vertical passages in Super Metroid). So hot off our recent completion of DKC2 Lost Levels, I decided I'm going to drag Artix through a Keysanity run of the game to see what sort of shenanigans we can get up to. And boy are we already getting up to shenanigans. He's in control of the Spoiler file so he can look up where everything is. We may also have additional guests in future recording sessions. Here's to a fun run! The run we are playing has the following options: Mode: Open (We don't start with a sword but the beginning castle sequence is marked as completed Goal: Defeat Ganon (If you can get to Ganon and kill him, you win, regardless of how much important stuff you have collected) Seed: 745127604 (I think) Logic: No Glitches Difficulty: Normal Variation: Keysanity If you want to play the randomizer for yourself, you can generate runs here: http://vt.alttp.run/ You will need to supply your own Japanese Zelda 3 rom for the randomizer to work. I can't tell you where to find one, but mine is called Zelda no Densetsu - Kamigami no Triforce (J) (V1.0) and yours probably will be too. The (J) (V1.0) is the important part. Table of Contents:      - with nine-gear crow, ChaosArgate, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze. - with nine-gear crow, ChaosArgate, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze. - with nine-gear crow, ChaosArgate, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze. - with nine-gear crow, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze. - with nine-gear crow and Tyty. - with nine-gear crow and Tyty. - with nine-gear crow and Tyty. - with nine-gear crow and Tyty.
FPzero fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 19:05
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Oh, this should be good. I've been watching a lot of randomizer videos on YouTube; there's a shedload of them, all with commentary, from a tournament that was run a bit ago. Quality of play and commentary is obviously variable, but there's a ton of runs and some of them get pretty nuts. My favorite was one where...let's see. The runners got access to the Dark World really early, via Titan's Mitts. But there were no swords in the overworld, lightside or darkside, so they had to go into dungeons without a proper weapon, or much in the way of health either. Hookshot was in Skull Woods, that gave access to flippers somehow, they then had to go into Ice Palace with the Bombos medallion. Ice Palace had fire rod and the bow, and somewhere they picked up the L1 sword. They had to use that to kill Mothula (Skull Woods boss) and I think it was the Armos Knights with the bow; they were the 5 and 6 crystals, which unlock the Big Bomb in the dark world bomb shop. But they still don't have the hammer, so there was no way to walk the bomb to the pyramid! They had to go kill Agahnim so they could buy the bomb, mirror, walk to Hyrule Castle, and use the castle gate teleporter to get to the pyramid and blast open that cracked wall. The Dark World fairy fountain finally gave them the ocarina, with which they could get to Misery Mire, which had the hammer that finally unlocked the rest of the seed. The quantity of upgrades, especially heart containers, waiting around in Ganon's Tower was pretty ridiculous. 
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Feb 23, 2018 19:25
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Oh, this should be good. I've been watching a lot of randomizer videos on YouTube; there's a shedload of them, all with commentary, from a tournament that was run a bit ago. Quality of play and commentary is obviously variable, but there's a ton of runs and some of them get pretty nuts. Sadly (or fortunately?) our run is not that crazy, but there is still a bit of "where do we go from here?" to be had. That run you described does sound amazing though.
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Feb 23, 2018 19:32
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I have fallen in love with the LTTP randomizer, though I haven't done much lately. I tried Keysanity when they first added it but I stopped like half an hour in because I was like "oh no I don't want to deal with this right now". I might try again though, and maybe watching this will convince me to (or convince me not to, I guess we'll see!). I hope they continue adding on to it in some ways, because LTTP's a really good game and it's a really good randomizer.
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Feb 23, 2018 19:32
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I like the randomizer streams because it trends very well to races and so folks have gotten pretty good at commentating them and familiar with things. The only downside is that since it's, you know, random, sometimes a race just flops because one person went right and the other left and then you just have another 15 minutes to go without a chance to catch up (the run at AGDQ). I think Keysanity would be too much for races, though.
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Feb 23, 2018 19:37
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I can't believe FP cut me booting up Fate/Grand Order pretty much the second the recording session started, he's making me look so much more professional than I actually am.
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Feb 23, 2018 19:38
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This is completely silly and I love it. The abridged NPC dialogue is pretty cute and fun. Gonna start my own run and try it out.
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Feb 23, 2018 19:39
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Bruceski posted:I think Keysanity would be too much for races, though. You'd think that, but there's a Keysanity tournament going on right now (with vods). 
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Feb 23, 2018 19:39
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I'm excited to finally learn "what if Zelda was a girl" in Crow's bogus adventure!
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Feb 23, 2018 20:01
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Oh God this looks like a nightmare. Good luck! Also I think you couldn't use the Ether Medallion because you normally need the Master Sword to use it? That or it just doesn't work indoors, which would be a neat touch (that I forgot about) since the effect is supposed to be a crazy weather anomaly.
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Feb 23, 2018 20:14
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I think you need a sword, dunno if it needs to be the Master Sword, because there's a little spinning animation that ends with holding the sword in the air. But I'm not sure if you can ever get those medallions in the game before getting the required sword so it's interesting that there's even a check for it.
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Feb 23, 2018 20:21
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GunnerJ posted:I think you need a sword, dunno if it needs to be the Master Sword, because there's a little spinning animation that ends with holding the sword in the air. But I'm not sure if you can ever get those medallions in the game before getting the required sword so it's interesting that there's even a check for it. That is correct. You need any sword (even just level 1) to use the Medallions, unless you're playing in Swordless mode, in which case the points to use the Medallions to get into Misery Mire and Turtle Rock let you bypass that restriction. You do need the Master Sword (or higher) to retrieve the items from the Ether and Bombos Medallion tablets, but you can read the tablet and see what's inside so long as you have the Book.
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Feb 23, 2018 20:23
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Geemer posted:I'm excited to finally learn "what if Zelda was a girl" in Crow's bogus adventure! This was all for want of "Hey, can you guys wait like an hour for us to get home and join you?" / "No, gently caress you Crow/Argate. FP wants to go to bed." 
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Feb 23, 2018 21:15
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Some things I have learned from watching randomizer runs:
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Feb 23, 2018 21:38
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This lets you short-circuit several puzzles.
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nine-gear crow posted:This was all for want of "Hey, can you guys wait like an hour for us to get home and join you?" / "No, gently caress you Crow/Argate. FP wants to go to bed." You guys said it was gonna be like two hours and it was already 10pm where i was. Enjoy your Bogus Adventure!
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Feb 23, 2018 22:32
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I can't believe FPzero didn't invite me to commentate on LttP Randomizer. I'm hurt. 
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Feb 23, 2018 23:43
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I decided to start my own playthrough with the randomizer. My uncle was kind enough to leave the arrow upgrade at the house, and the bartender has a stash of Silver Arrows in the back. Now to find a bow...
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Feb 24, 2018 02:07
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:[*]There's a sprite hack that replaces Link with a pug, and it is adorable. The sprite hack is a feature of the randomizer; there's a ton of options but I think my favorite is Marisa (sorry Luigi, you're a really close second).
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Feb 24, 2018 02:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:
There's three tiers: (1) Kill 4 or more enemies without taking damage (vanilla red rupees), (2) Kill 4 or more enemies (vanilla blue rupees), (3) Kill 1 or more enemies (vanilla green rupees). The counter persists across save & quit, I think, so pulling a tree is the only way to reset it. Also, the next time you have Mini-Moldorms to kill, they're vulnerable to the Hookshot even without the magic powder
tiistai fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Feb 24, 2018 |
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Feb 24, 2018 03:54
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FPzero posted:There should be no impossible situations like occur with some other randomizers (Ask me about not being able to get Gravity Suit because it was in a room full of water and vertical passages in Super Metroid). There are no important impossibilities. It is entirely possible for the Big Key to end up in the Big Chest in certain dungeons that otherwise have no Big Key doors. TooMuchAbstraction posted:
quote:
The timing is absurdly precise: you have to release the A button for exactly one frame and continue doing that. You can't hold the button down more than 32 frames or you'll fall.
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Feb 24, 2018 06:15
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Yeah, one of the AGDQ runners (Andy) is absurdly good at doing the hover and spent the entire race showing off. They had a gentlemen's agreement that he still had to get the hookshot to keep it fair.
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Feb 24, 2018 06:25
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FPzero posted:There should be no impossible situations like occur with some other randomizers (Ask me about not being able to get Gravity Suit because it was in a room full of water and vertical passages in Super Metroid). Do you have to do any speedrunning techniques bullshit to get past some situations? I really want to try this but I might not if that's the case... Xenoveritas posted:There are no important impossibilities. It is entirely possible for the Big Key to end up in the Big Chest in certain dungeons that otherwise have no Big Key doors. That's actually pretty funny. It would drive me absolutely insane if I ended up with that.
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Feb 24, 2018 06:26
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Mak0rz posted:Do you have to do any speedrunning techniques bullshit to get past some situations? I really want to try this but I might not if that's the case... For Zelda or Super Metroid? Super Metroid usually requires passing knowledge of speed tricks even for its easier modes though this may have changed. Zelda doesn't seem to if you're playing without glitches.
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Feb 24, 2018 06:29
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Mak0rz posted:Do you have to do any speedrunning techniques bullshit to get past some situations? I really want to try this but I might not if that's the case... The logic for the Link to the Past randomizer explicitly does not require any major glitches, any damage being taken, or any dark rooms to be traversed without the lantern. It is much easier with certain glitches/tricks (for instance, some bomb jumps allow keys to be skipped, and fake flippers mean that you don't need to get flippers for anything but Swamp Palace), but none of them are required to finish the seed.
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Feb 24, 2018 06:41
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You can also get into Agahnim's Tower if you have the Magic Cape, even if you don't have any sword. I've watched my fair share of randomizer runs because Psychedelic Eyeball does them all the time on his Twitch channel, and on more than one occasion he's had to do just that. He has the worst luck. Edit: Artix, I hope you're not one of those tea elitists that scoff at teabags. get that OUT of my face fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Feb 24, 2018 |
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Feb 24, 2018 06:42
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Dirk the Average posted:The logic for the Link to the Past randomizer explicitly does not require any major glitches, any damage being taken, or any dark rooms to be traversed without the lantern. I would go further and say that it does not appear to require any minor glitches either. The only extent to which it requires more skill than the base game is that you may well be required to go into dangerous zones while underequipped...but your equipment should always be enough to finish the dungeon as long as you're good enough at dodging.
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Feb 24, 2018 06:44
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get that OUT of my face posted:Edit: Artix, I hope you're not one of those tea elitists that scoff at teabags.  I don't use them much myself, but hey, you do you. You can get fancy tea in teabags if you look hard enough, and you can get really lovely tea loose. More a matter of what you get and how you brew it.
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Feb 24, 2018 06:59
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The tea chat in the video has made me thirsty, I should brew some Tazo. That's right, mainstream herbal. Take that, tea snobs!
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Feb 24, 2018 07:01
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Zora gave me a 20. Was really hoping for less of a dick move and more of a thing to give me some idea where to go.
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Feb 24, 2018 07:16
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dis astranagant posted:Zora gave me a 20. Was really hoping for less of a dick move and more of a thing to give me some idea where to go. Life lessons are something like 95% of what he gives out.
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Feb 24, 2018 07:29
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The Zelda Randomizer has been pretty polished over the course of lots of bug-fixing and people running into the occasional logic error over lots and lots and LOTS of races. The Super Metroid item randomizer has, I think, a smaller problem space so I don't think there's NEARLY as many weird impossible soft-lock edge-cases to worry about, but it's a lot more trigger-happy about demanding really deep game knowledge, up to and including forcing you to do some REALLY heinous suitless Maridia nonsense or a lot of hellrun through Norfair without the Varia suit. There's at least a couple of item layouts I've seen in races or experienced through gameplay that require nearly TAS-level execution (like doing suitless Maridia wall-jumping), and to that I personally say 'gently caress that'. E: Also, yeah, the reason money and health are often not a problem in the LttP randomizer is that money and hearts together should make up more than half the possible item locations in the game.
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Feb 24, 2018 07:32
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SM Randomizer runs get really samey since anything that lets you out of the starting jail besides the intended items will usually blow the game wide open.
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Feb 24, 2018 07:44
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Dirk the Average posted:The logic for the Link to the Past randomizer explicitly does not require any major glitches, any damage being taken, or any dark rooms to be traversed without the lantern. It is much easier with certain glitches/tricks (for instance, some bomb jumps allow keys to be skipped, and fake flippers mean that you don't need to get flippers for anything but Swamp Palace), but none of them are required to finish the seed. Hell yes that's what I'm talking about. Really need to give that hack a try. dis astranagant posted:SM Randomizer runs get really samey since anything that lets you out of the starting jail besides the intended items will usually blow the game wide open. Yeah that's the problem with it. The room randomizer one seemed more interesting but last I remember it was still experimental and had a big chance of producing dead ends.
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Feb 24, 2018 07:49
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FPzero posted:Seed: 745127604 (I think) Just ran with that hash and settings and got the same hash (red cane, empty bottle, Ether, Bombos, Cape), so it looks right to me. Got it done in just under three hours.
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Feb 24, 2018 10:03
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Dirk the Average posted:The logic for the Link to the Past randomizer explicitly does not require any major glitches, any damage being taken, or any dark rooms to be traversed without the lantern. It is much easier with certain glitches/tricks (for instance, some bomb jumps allow keys to be skipped, and fake flippers mean that you don't need to get flippers for anything but Swamp Palace), but none of them are required to finish the seed. That's odd, I was just trying it out today and it forced me to go through the death mountain caves without a lantern to get the lantern, unless there's another path or way to get up there that doesn't involve passing through those. I definitely had it set to No Glitches too. Cirina fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Feb 24, 2018 |
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Feb 24, 2018 13:01
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Eopia posted:That's odd, I was just trying it out today and it forced me to go through the death mountain caves without a lantern to get the lantern, unless there's another path or way to get up there that doesn't involve passing through those. In that case it means the flute is available somewhere else, because you can fly up to Death Mountain without ever having been there.
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Feb 24, 2018 13:09
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Eopia posted:That's odd, I was just trying it out today and it forced me to go through the death mountain caves without a lantern to get the lantern, unless there's another path or way to get up there that doesn't involve passing through those. With the default logic, I'm pretty sure the only two ways onto Death Mountain are via lantern or via the flute. If you're not using the entrance randomizer and you're not permitting glitches, you will always get at least one of those two items (since the only way into Ganon's Tower is through the Hyrule side of Death Mountain, even if none of the several chests up there have anything important). If the lantern was on Death Mountain, the flute was probably available to you somewhere else. That said, weird edge cases in the logic DO come up every now and then that need bug-fixing, but that one's egregious enough that it's (hopefully!) unlikely. Good job on the blind navigation, at least; I probably could have done that as a kid from playing the game way too much, but it looks like a huge pain in the rear end to me now.
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Feb 24, 2018 13:11
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Shady Amish Terror posted:With the default logic, I'm pretty sure the only two ways onto Death Mountain are via lantern or via the flute. If you're not using the entrance randomizer and you're not permitting glitches, you will always get at least one of those two items (since the only way into Ganon's Tower is through the Hyrule side of Death Mountain, even if none of the several chests up there have anything important). If the lantern was on Death Mountain, the flute was probably available to you somewhere else. Yeah I ended finding the flute later, wasn't aware that you didn't need to have visited a place to be able to fly there, although I do suppose it'd never come up in the regular game. For blind cave navigation it was a pain in the rear end since I couldn't even tell when I was switching screens, I relied on spamming my hookshot to tell where the walls were quite a bit since I didn't have my sword yet.
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Feb 24, 2018 13:59
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:22 |
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Since they mentioned how some dungeons only need certain numbers of keys outside their own dungeon, I might as well go over how keys are randomized. First up, the general item pool: all items in chests and all items that are just on the ground, as well as all items that require the Pegasus Boots dash (there are only three of these: the book and keys in Desert Palace and Tower of Ganon) are placed into the item pool. In non-key-sanity, keys are mixed up within their given dungeon. In key-sanity, they're spread across the entire item pool. (There is logic to check to make sure that keys aren't inaccessible or that you could get stuck. Because of this, there's a chest in Skull Woods that will always be a key except in Major Glitches.) Ultimately what that means is that keys that drop from enemies and keys that are under pots are not randomized. Because of that, Eastern Palace does not require any external keys except for the Big Key. As mentioned in the video, Swamp Palace requires only one key. There are something like five keys required beyond that, but they're all under pots. Only the very first key you'd get is in a chest, so it's the only one that's randomized. (This also means that when not doing key-sanity, the first chest in the Swamp Palace will always be a key. Unless you're allowing Major Glitches.) Eopia posted:Yeah I ended finding the flute later, wasn't aware that you didn't need to have visited a place to be able to fly there, although I do suppose it'd never come up in the regular game. For blind cave navigation it was a pain in the rear end since I couldn't even tell when I was switching screens, I relied on spamming my hookshot to tell where the walls were quite a bit since I didn't have my sword yet. Outside of Major Glitches you should never be forced to navigate a dark room. However, navigating dark rooms (especially the cave to Death Mountain) is still a useful skill to have, since once you have the hookshot, there's quite a few chests that can be grabbed on Death Mountain.
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Feb 24, 2018 17:47
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