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TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Hey I know I'm not a regular, but I want to say, the thread title is true and 100% correct.

Don't please, god it hurts and we miss you and it hurts so loving bad when your not there. It affects so many and it's not just family you lose this spark that was there and people love you even if you don't love yourself.

Goddamnit why

Talk to me bud, because I get the feeling this wasn't just a loving ringing endorsement of a thread title. What's happening friend?

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LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Hey I know I'm not a regular, but I want to say, the thread title is true and 100% correct.

Don't please, god it hurts and we miss you and it hurts so loving bad when your not there. It affects so many and it's not just family you lose this spark that was there and people love you even if you don't love yourself.

Goddamnit why

If thereís one place on earth you can let it out, itís here, brother.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

If thereís one place on earth you can let it out, itís here, brother.

UCS Hellmaker
Mar 29, 2008
Toilet Rascal
Short and sweet my trans friend killed herself last Friday likely due to her severe gender dysphoria and getting news that they were going to deny or delay her transition surgery which would have made her wait at least another year to schedule. She was an amazing girl that was smart sweet and had a family that adored and was supportive, just couldn't handle her life in her body when she kept getting delays and her anxiety was so bad she couldn't even look in the mirror or feel comfortable being seen out in public.

We had an amazing conversation overnight and she was so excited, we talked about how she would find someone that valued her and she would feel loved by to be her first after surgery. How she had things lined up for med school after this year, and how she was going to be the girl she always wanted to be.

She had been told her bottom surgery could be moved up and she was so excited. But I think that she got told she might not be able to and her insurance would be done in August and if it got delayed it definitely would be to much.

Just gently caress. She was amazing, and finding out she was gone by a random text trying to find out if I had anything to do with it didn't help. Verifying it was real by looking at the medical examiner's office made it worse.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Short and sweet my trans friend killed herself last Friday likely due to her severe gender dysphoria and getting news that they were going to deny or delay her transition surgery which would have made her wait at least another year to schedule. She was an amazing girl that was smart sweet and had a family that adored and was supportive, just couldn't handle her life in her body when she kept getting delays and her anxiety was so bad she couldn't even look in the mirror or feel comfortable being seen out in public.

We had an amazing conversation overnight and she was so excited, we talked about how she would find someone that valued her and she would feel loved by to be her first after surgery. How she had things lined up for med school after this year, and how she was going to be the girl she always wanted to be.

She had been told her bottom surgery could be moved up and she was so excited. But I think that she got told she might not be able to and her insurance would be done in August and if it got delayed it definitely would be to much.

Just gently caress. She was amazing, and finding out she was gone by a random text trying to find out if I had anything to do with it didn't help. Verifying it was real by looking at the medical examiner's office made it worse.

I remember one time I was on my way to a party, and I got word from a phone call that a trans friend of mine who was dear to me had killed herself. And I was in loving tears the whole drive there. I didn't even stay that long, I just figured I should at least get to where I was going instead of turning around and going home. You didn't have anything to do with it. The motherfuckers who hosed with her future pushed her over the edge. You were a good friend, sounds like you were more than just a good friend but a confidant as well. I know what you're thinking, because I thought it too, "if I just did x or was more present in y way this wouldn't have happened." I promise you, it wouldn't have changed poo poo. She made her choice, just like my friend rean did. Just like my friend zoŽ (not trans but similar situation, lifelong severe chronic pain). Nothing could have stopped them once they began to execute that plan.

Her struggle is over now, at least she is at peace. That's the only thing that can be said here. It's the rest of us who have to figure out how to deal with it now. That's the worst part about this poo poo. We're all collateral damage when something like this happens. There's more I'd love to say, about the insurance companies, healthcare, and loving America, but I don't think it's indicated now. You know what it is, I know what it is. gently caress em for this poo poo is all I can say. I'm empathetic as hell, and I'm extremely sorry for your loss and your pain. Take care of yourself, friend. Slide into the DMs if you want or keep posting here. Whatever you need to do. We're here for you.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?
Hey guys

Iíve used this thread and the discord for help before. I want to return the favor. I am a career, union FF/EMT and have been working in this field for 9+ years. I have zero military experience, but Iíll leave it at this - Iíve seen som poo poo, probably on a lesser level than most of you, maybe on the same level as some.


Iíve also completed training for peer support, started and obtained funding for a peer support program, and have been working in that realm for the past couple of years for my own fire department. I have access to and know of a variety of resources and people to whom I can reach out and ask for help or put you into contact with. The majority of the organizations and people who support first responders oftentimes also work with or started their organizations by working with military personnel.

Shoot me a PM any time, or you can get my email that way or if you need it my cell.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo
Hi, currently in crisis as of last Thursday. Stable but holding on with a white knuckled grip and trying not to spin out further. Dealing with a bit of libel and defamation rn on campus and would like to talk to someone who is also a Nontraditional student veteran like myself on this.

I donít want sympathy, I donít want sunshine, I just need to know how to navigate this social space so I donít suffer another social death, like I did a few years ago with the GiP discord group, getting terminated with extreme prejudice for being a weapons-grade autist, not a normal one apparently. Though Iím gonna guess that the fault was with them too, having heard of some of the poo poo theyíve pulled as of late. gently caress yíall btw.

Anyway yeah, Iím at the point rn where Iím getting appointments mixed up on campus and I have no clue wtf Iím doing except that Iím stuck in survive and fight mode. Putting up the flare. Please send help. Thank you.

Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

Checking in to let you know that I see your request and am reaching out to people. I donít think I can offer more than a non judgmental place to vent but I am checking to see if there are others that can better help.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

Hekk posted:

Checking in to let you know that I see your request and am reaching out to people. I donít think I can offer more than a non judgmental place to vent but I am checking to see if there are others that can better help.

Thank you partner.

Bored As Fuck
Jan 1, 2006
Be prepared
Fun Shoe
Dealing with falling outs with social circles loving sucks, man. I've been there for sure. I know you don't want my sympathy, but you have it. And I understand how hard it is and how much it hurts.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

Bored As gently caress posted:

Dealing with falling outs with social circles loving sucks, man. I've been there for sure. I know you don't want my sympathy, but you have it. And I understand how hard it is and how much it hurts.

I appreciate it friend. I really do. Talked to shim just now, he schooled me. Another bro is in the DMs, imma hit him up tonight with THE DM. And Windshipper is calling me up in an hour+ or so.

Screaming a little bit less internally. Really appreciate the assists yíall. Thank you for what yíall do for each other, but esp how yíall are helping me rn. Thank you.

E: talked to Windshipper. Feeling quite a bit better and understanding my situation more. Going to sleep. Will dm the other bro in the afternoon. Thanks again friends.

TheWeedNumber fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Mar 29, 2023

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

TheWeedNumber posted:

I appreciate it friend. I really do. Talked to shim just now, he schooled me. Another bro is in the DMs, imma hit him up tonight with THE DM. And Windshipper is calling me up in an hour+ or so.

Screaming a little bit less internally. Really appreciate the assists yíall. Thank you for what yíall do for each other, but esp how yíall are helping me rn. Thank you.

E: talked to Windshipper. Feeling quite a bit better and understanding my situation more. Going to sleep. Will dm the other bro in the afternoon. Thanks again friends.

Glad to hear I could help, brother. Take care and even if you subconsciously feel unnerved, know that youíve got this and can handle it. Youíll be ok.

Edit: I also feel like I should clarify something - I am willing and I hope able to help out anyone here. I am, however west coast and my contacts - as a result - are primarily west coast. That doesnít mean I canít reach out to people who maybe know someone or know an organization who can help. A lot of mental health is simply, ďHey I know someone who knows someone, let me help you tread water until further help can be reached.Ē

I am truly glad that I was able to talk to TheWeedNumber and give that perspective, but I also donít want to juice myself beyond who I am.

But I am always available, given my normal work and life constraints. That said, I think he will back me up that I reached back out to him as soon as I saw his PM and did my best to set up a time to contact him. I will respond in kind to anyone who wants it.

windshipper fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Mar 29, 2023

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

windshipper posted:

Glad to hear I could help, brother. Take care and even if you subconsciously feel unnerved, know that youíve got this and can handle it. Youíll be ok.

Edit: I also feel like I should clarify something - I am willing and I hope able to help out anyone here. I am, however west coast and my contacts - as a result - are primarily west coast. That doesnít mean I canít reach out to people who maybe know someone or know an organization who can help. A lot of mental health is simply, ďHey I know someone who knows someone, let me help you tread water until further help can be reached.Ē

I am truly glad that I was able to talk to TheWeedNumber and give that perspective, but I also donít want to juice myself beyond who I am.

But I am always available, given my normal work and life constraints. That said, I think he will back me up that I reached back out to him as soon as I saw his PM and did my best to set up a time to contact him. I will respond in kind to anyone who wants it.

All of this is true. Confirmed.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo
Posting to report that I think I'm stable stable again. MH team and support network should be able to handle me from here on out. Thanks for having my back friends. Be well.

Bored As Fuck
Jan 1, 2006
Be prepared
Fun Shoe

TheWeedNumber posted:

Posting to report that I think I'm stable stable again. MH team and support network should be able to handle me from here on out. Thanks for having my back friends. Be well.

Glad you're doing at least a little better dude. Keep at it.

Talktopus
Feb 12, 2023

Hi guys.
I'm not a veteran, but I'm the AA sponsor of one.
He has a little under a year of sobriety right now, and at roughly age 50, this is his first ever serious attempt at Recovery. I've only known him a few months, as he didn't seek sponsorship until eight months clean. He's already made so much progress, and I'm proud of him for being able to open up and get vulnerable about some of the truly awful things that happened to him. He's very hard on himself about being an alcoholic, and still sees his problem as a personal moral weakness. Knowing what I know about his upbringing, and his combat experience, he's gonna have to eventually acknowledge the role these events played in shaping his addictive behavior.
Speaking from my own 12-step experience, sharing extensively about the stuff I was most afraid and ashamed of was the only way I could finally process the pain and guilt I still felt even decades after my own traumas. At the end of the deep dive, my sponsor knew me better than any therapist I'd ever had, and gave me something no SSRI or mood stabilizer ever could: true self-forgiveness. Before that moment, I had lived a life of constant self-flagellation and misery, and everything afterward has been previously-unimaginable levels of sunshine and loving rainbows (at least by comparison).

I want this for my sponsee, too. I want it *so* much.

The problem is this, though: he doesn't want to share about his time in war.
Right now, he's on arguably the longest and most difficult of the 12 Steps - 4: "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." I'm taking him through it the way my sponsor showed me: by first writing down all my resentments towards people who'd hurt me, and then writing down all the people I'd hurt in return. Each entry is a few pages long, so it's more than just a bulleted list. Ultimately, it's about putting our pattern of behavior in its complete context. With the full picture of what led to our destructive coping mechanisms, we can healthily acknowledge the behaviors we need to change without punishing ourselves over and over for past mistakes.
It's really hard. I didn't want to do it the first 3 or 4 times, and paid the price by relapsing constantly over 10 years. The only way I was able to make it this time was through a combination of my sponsor's superhuman patience, and my own feeling that I had no more chances left. It hurt. I was miserable and sad for months as I wrote my Step 4, because it felt endless, and I didn't have much hope it would actually help, either.
But it *did*
Oh my God, it helped so much. I just couldn't see how until it was over.

I believe if he's going to really recover, my sponsee has to share this stuff with me no matter how painful it is. He can't see it yet, but there's a future for him where his memories of death and violence have no more power over him - a future where he can turn to some other poor, traumatized kid and say "I know what you went through is terrible, but look at me: I'm happier than I've ever been, thanks to this process. There's hope for you, too. I promise."
That, or he can keep squashing it down inside by trying not to think about it, and find another sponsor.

I know by now there are no magic words to convince a sponsee to finish the steps. At the end of the day, it's his choice whether he wants this or not. It will hurt if he says no, and it will hurt to have to fire him over it.
I would understand, though. His trauma is on a level I couldn't comprehend. I don't know if *I'd* be brave enough to face what he's faced.

I've connected him with a (Vietnam-era) combat veteran in the program. They're going out for coffee tomorrow to talk about this. I can only hope the older guy has a good message for my friend, and that he'll be receptive enough to give this a shot.

In the meantime, I'd love to hear your opinions about this issue, and whether you have any words of hope for my sponsee. I understand there's risk to his mental stability, but from where I'm sitting it'd be an even bigger risk to let things fester forever.

Thank you for reading.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

Talktopus posted:

Hi guys.
I'm not a veteran, but I'm the AA sponsor of one.
He has a little under a year of sobriety right now, and at roughly age 50, this is his first ever serious attempt at Recovery. I've only known him a few months, as he didn't seek sponsorship until eight months clean. He's already made so much progress, and I'm proud of him for being able to open up and get vulnerable about some of the truly awful things that happened to him. He's very hard on himself about being an alcoholic, and still sees his problem as a personal moral weakness. Knowing what I know about his upbringing, and his combat experience, he's gonna have to eventually acknowledge the role these events played in shaping his addictive behavior.
Speaking from my own 12-step experience, sharing extensively about the stuff I was most afraid and ashamed of was the only way I could finally process the pain and guilt I still felt even decades after my own traumas. At the end of the deep dive, my sponsor knew me better than any therapist I'd ever had, and gave me something no SSRI or mood stabilizer ever could: true self-forgiveness. Before that moment, I had lived a life of constant self-flagellation and misery, and everything afterward has been previously-unimaginable levels of sunshine and loving rainbows (at least by comparison).

I want this for my sponsee, too. I want it *so* much.

The problem is this, though: he doesn't want to share about his time in war.
Right now, he's on arguably the longest and most difficult of the 12 Steps - 4: "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." I'm taking him through it the way my sponsor showed me: by first writing down all my resentments towards people who'd hurt me, and then writing down all the people I'd hurt in return. Each entry is a few pages long, so it's more than just a bulleted list. Ultimately, it's about putting our pattern of behavior in its complete context. With the full picture of what led to our destructive coping mechanisms, we can healthily acknowledge the behaviors we need to change without punishing ourselves over and over for past mistakes.
It's really hard. I didn't want to do it the first 3 or 4 times, and paid the price by relapsing constantly over 10 years. The only way I was able to make it this time was through a combination of my sponsor's superhuman patience, and my own feeling that I had no more chances left. It hurt. I was miserable and sad for months as I wrote my Step 4, because it felt endless, and I didn't have much hope it would actually help, either.
But it *did*
Oh my God, it helped so much. I just couldn't see how until it was over.

I believe if he's going to really recover, my sponsee has to share this stuff with me no matter how painful it is. He can't see it yet, but there's a future for him where his memories of death and violence have no more power over him - a future where he can turn to some other poor, traumatized kid and say "I know what you went through is terrible, but look at me: I'm happier than I've ever been, thanks to this process. There's hope for you, too. I promise."
That, or he can keep squashing it down inside by trying not to think about it, and find another sponsor.

I know by now there are no magic words to convince a sponsee to finish the steps. At the end of the day, it's his choice whether he wants this or not. It will hurt if he says no, and it will hurt to have to fire him over it.
I would understand, though. His trauma is on a level I couldn't comprehend. I don't know if *I'd* be brave enough to face what he's faced.

I've connected him with a (Vietnam-era) combat veteran in the program. They're going out for coffee tomorrow to talk about this. I can only hope the older guy has a good message for my friend, and that he'll be receptive enough to give this a shot.

In the meantime, I'd love to hear your opinions about this issue, and whether you have any words of hope for my sponsee. I understand there's risk to his mental stability, but from where I'm sitting it'd be an even bigger risk to let things fester forever.

Thank you for reading.

Maybe he needs to share it. But I am not sure this particular thing is something he shares with you. Connecting him with another veteran is the step needed. I question why you would need to "fire" a sponsee because they don't want to tell you about the horrific things they've seen, that you cannot possibly relate to.

I have never seen combat but the Navy and Marine Corps still trained me to be a loving killer and, at heart, that what I am. I just missed the part where I popped my cherry. But the desensitization, the operant and classical conditioning imposed on me to prepare me as a combat medic to fight alongside Marines, that's still imprinted firmly on this autistic veteran's mind. Now imagine someone whose training was completed and actually had to kill or be killed, or see the horrors of war.

The Vietnam-era Combat Veteran is the one who is going to reach him on this if he is to be reached. It ain't gonna be you. But it might be you who abandons him if he can't make the leap in as timely a fashion as the 12 steps calls for. Because neither you nor the people who came up with the 12 steps get it. You simply can't. You weren't there.

I don't think you're an rear end in a top hat by the way, not yet anyway. I know for a fact you mean well. You posted up in here and you're asking us for our thoughts. This is my take on it. However, if you turn your back on him, though it may mean nothing to you cause this is the internet, know that I will never forgive you for that poo poo.

You wanna help him? Get him plugged in with other veterans, maybe a sponsor swap is needed. But there's a difference between transfer of care and "firing" and that's the part that I don't like at all. At Sierra Tucson, when I was there for my depression, we had a veterans program there. The VA will pay for him to do 45-60 days at Sierra Tucson and its not half bad at all. Three hots and a cot, a veterans program, EMDR, group and individual therapy, all free. That's an option you maybe didn't know about. Maybe he can do the 4th step through them. They got AA up there too.

In certain meetings, blocked off to everyone but veterans, I heard the realest poo poo I have ever heard. Dude needs a safe space if he's gonna talk about the war or his moral injury. He may love and respect you but it might not be enough for him to make that jump. At least in that room, filled with other vets, he knows he's safe.

Things I've heard (Trigger Warning from here on out for suicide, child abuse, death. Spoilers for the crowd)
A veteran talk about trying to kill themselves, with a failure to fire on TWO separate pistols.
Same veteran talked about an IED attack his unit suffered that he never got over. Because he wasn't sure if the motorcycle he and his guys saw driving away from the blast were the guys who hit them in the first place. In the same meeting, another veteran (a corpsman) stated that he would have "killed him, and everyone around them after the attack." I have no judgement on either perspective. I mention this only to state that, in that space, things that ordinarily wouldn't have been said or expressed, could exist and be said.
A veteran I had particular love and respect for couldn't speak on his poo poo. But he did express himself enough, choked up with tears, that I know he was trying.
I spoke about being molested as a child (like my literal first memory of life is this) and wondering if that hardwired me to want to fight and enlist in the first place. I worried about being some sort of loving psycho because I couldn't let go of wanting to go to combat. I only include this one to make a point: what you can talk about, other's may not be able to.
Another veteran expressed their anger at children killed by the Taliban. I forget the circumstances. I don't know if its because the Taliban started firefights in which those kids were exposed to combat and subsequent death, or if they were deliberately targeted. I legit can't remember. All I remember is this loveable dude outside the room being full of rage and disgust inside the room.


That's a snapshot. Stories like the above or worse are getting told in that Sierra Tucson room all the loving time. They are being told nation-wide, worldwide. There's a time and place for everything.

Get him to the place he needs to be, around the people he needs to be, so he can finally make that breakthrough. You took him through steps one to three right? Step four may not be meant for you. But you weren't born to save him anyway; you're here to help him save himself.

TheWeedNumber fucked around with this message at 14:47 on May 23, 2023

ASAPI
Apr 20, 2007
I invented the line.

Talktopus posted:


I've connected him with a (Vietnam-era) combat veteran in the program. They're going out for coffee tomorrow to talk about this. I can only hope the older guy has a good message for my friend, and that he'll be receptive enough to give this a shot.


This would have been one of the first things (next to trying to get him to actually go to therapy) suggested by the thread. In all likelihood he will need an actual therapist (maybe a psychiatrist with some meds?) to help him unpack, accept, and process everything he's been carrying around for how ever many years.

For some, having a "sounding board" with similar experiences can help direct the person to therapy, some need it during therapy as a sort of "reality check", and some needs that person throughout the entire process. You did a great thing getting him in touch with another vet to help out.

You did good OP. I hope both he and you continue your sobriety and good health. If possible, try to nudge him towards more professional help, they are better equipped to help him process some things, but a buddy is the next best thing/great start.

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk

Talktopus posted:


In the meantime, I'd love to hear your opinions about this issue, and whether you have any words of hope for my sponsee. I understand there's risk to his mental stability, but from where I'm sitting it'd be an even bigger risk to let things fester forever.


Have him read through the following thread, made by our very own Bulletsponge13.
From what you've told us, I'm fairly certain he will be able to connect with a lot of the stories in that thread.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4002076&pagenumber=1

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo
updated my post with additional details so its not missed.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Karl Marlantes' book What It Is Like To Go To War talks a lot about the author's journey of unpacking all of that and introduces a lot of useful language for talking about these things that didn't have names. Reading someone's similar experiences might help him get to a place where he's ready to share, as said don't necessarily expect it to be with you though.

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013

Talktopus posted:

Hi guys.
I'm not a veteran, but I'm the AA sponsor of one.
He has a little under a year of sobriety right now, and at roughly age 50, this is his first ever serious attempt at Recovery. I've only known him a few months, as he didn't seek sponsorship until eight months clean. He's already made so much progress, and I'm proud of him for being able to open up and get vulnerable about some of the truly awful things that happened to him. He's very hard on himself about being an alcoholic, and still sees his problem as a personal moral weakness. Knowing what I know about his upbringing, and his combat experience, he's gonna have to eventually acknowledge the role these events played in shaping his addictive behavior.
Speaking from my own 12-step experience, sharing extensively about the stuff I was most afraid and ashamed of was the only way I could finally process the pain and guilt I still felt even decades after my own traumas. At the end of the deep dive, my sponsor knew me better than any therapist I'd ever had, and gave me something no SSRI or mood stabilizer ever could: true self-forgiveness. Before that moment, I had lived a life of constant self-flagellation and misery, and everything afterward has been previously-unimaginable levels of sunshine and loving rainbows (at least by comparison).

I want this for my sponsee, too. I want it *so* much.

The problem is this, though: he doesn't want to share about his time in war.
Right now, he's on arguably the longest and most difficult of the 12 Steps - 4: "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." I'm taking him through it the way my sponsor showed me: by first writing down all my resentments towards people who'd hurt me, and then writing down all the people I'd hurt in return. Each entry is a few pages long, so it's more than just a bulleted list. Ultimately, it's about putting our pattern of behavior in its complete context. With the full picture of what led to our destructive coping mechanisms, we can healthily acknowledge the behaviors we need to change without punishing ourselves over and over for past mistakes.
It's really hard. I didn't want to do it the first 3 or 4 times, and paid the price by relapsing constantly over 10 years. The only way I was able to make it this time was through a combination of my sponsor's superhuman patience, and my own feeling that I had no more chances left. It hurt. I was miserable and sad for months as I wrote my Step 4, because it felt endless, and I didn't have much hope it would actually help, either.
But it *did*
Oh my God, it helped so much. I just couldn't see how until it was over.

I believe if he's going to really recover, my sponsee has to share this stuff with me no matter how painful it is. He can't see it yet, but there's a future for him where his memories of death and violence have no more power over him - a future where he can turn to some other poor, traumatized kid and say "I know what you went through is terrible, but look at me: I'm happier than I've ever been, thanks to this process. There's hope for you, too. I promise."
That, or he can keep squashing it down inside by trying not to think about it, and find another sponsor.

I know by now there are no magic words to convince a sponsee to finish the steps. At the end of the day, it's his choice whether he wants this or not. It will hurt if he says no, and it will hurt to have to fire him over it.
I would understand, though. His trauma is on a level I couldn't comprehend. I don't know if *I'd* be brave enough to face what he's faced.

I've connected him with a (Vietnam-era) combat veteran in the program. They're going out for coffee tomorrow to talk about this. I can only hope the older guy has a good message for my friend, and that he'll be receptive enough to give this a shot.

In the meantime, I'd love to hear your opinions about this issue, and whether you have any words of hope for my sponsee. I understand there's risk to his mental stability, but from where I'm sitting it'd be an even bigger risk to let things fester forever.

Thank you for reading.

Yooooooo 🚩 alert 🚩 alert 🚩

Nobody in their Goddamn 50ís is a Vietnam combat anything. If they have any combat experience it would be Panama and Grenada and the Gulf War. Possibly GWOT as well but.. yeah. Red flag alert.

2023-59 (my most charitable case here) is 1964. The only combat in Vietnam he saw was on the news.

Obviously donít not help the guy, Iíve done all 13 of the 12 steps and no, not a typo- heís on the right step, number 4, but he sounds full of poo poo. Thatís gonna be a big hurdle for him to jump as you guide him through step 4.

Thereís actual vets in your AA group arenít there? Iíd be hard pressed not to find them in AA and NA.

Dude chose you, a younger, non veteran, for a reason. Probably because he thought you wouldnít sniff out his bullshit. Now you gotta AA Judo that poo poo and use the momentum of his bullshit to get him to actually take that moral inventory, Vietnam vet bullshit and all, and actually do the 4th step.

Ironically itís gonna be easier to admit that to someone who hasnít been through combat than to someone who has. Alcoholics are humans after all, and sponsor or not, we have a reputation for coming down hard on those that do the (stupidly named, and dumber act) ďstolen valorĒ thing. And coming down hard, is likely not what he needs! Not on old step 4!

I hope that was helpful.

LtCol J. Krusinski fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 23, 2023

Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

I think OP was saying that the sponsee is around 50yo and a combat vet. That OP linked the sponsee up with a Vietnam vet. Not that 50yo sponsee was claiming to have been in Nam.

At 50, it might be Desert Storm, early AFG, OIF 1, etc.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

Yooooooo 🚩 alert 🚩 alert 🚩

Nobody in their Goddamn 50ís is a Vietnam combat anything. If they have any combat experience it would be Panama and Grenada and the Gulf War. Possibly GWOT as well but.. yeah. Red flag alert.

2023-59 (my most charitable case here) is 1964. The only combat in Vietnam he saw was on the news.

Obviously donít not help the guy, Iíve done all 13 of the 12 steps and no, not a typo- heís on the right step, number 4, but he sounds full of poo poo. Thatís gonna be a big hurdle for him to jump as you guide him through step 4.

Thereís actual vets in your AA group arenít there? Iíd be hard pressed not to find them in AA and NA.

Dude chose you, a younger, non veteran, for a reason. Probably because he thought you wouldnít sniff out his bullshit. Now you gotta AA Judo that poo poo and use the momentum of his bullshit to get him to actually take that moral inventory, Vietnam vet bullshit and all, and actually do the 4th step.

Ironically itís gonna be easier to admit that to someone who hasnít been through combat than to someone who has. Alcoholics are humans after all, and sponsor or not, we have a reputation for coming down hard on those that do the (stupidly named, and dumber act) ďstolen valorĒ thing. And coming down hard, is likely not what he needs! Not on old step 4!

I hope that was helpful.

dang it Bobby what did we say about working on our reading comprehension skills in class.

to wit: the vet is in their 50s. They did not serve in Vietnam and no one said they did.

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013

Hekk posted:

I think OP was saying that the sponsee is around 50yo and a combat vet. That OP linked the sponsee up with a Vietnam vet. Not that 50yo sponsee was claiming to have been in Nam.

At 50, it might be Desert Storm, early AFG, OIF 1, etc.

Ohhhhhh

Well, my advice changes to: Hook him up with a vet if heís struggling with step 4. Priority list:
Also combat vet
Similar Age / Time of Service
Same or Similar branch
Has completed all 12 steps

I went to a priest the first couple of times I tried to stop drinking and got to step 4. Not catholic but they were big about being available for AA/NA in the area I was getting sober in. Didnít work.

:420: did but not everyone can do that.

My best wishes to your sponsee! Iím sorry for the mix up!

LtCol J. Krusinski fucked around with this message at 21:44 on May 23, 2023

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013

TheWeedNumber posted:

dang it Bobby what did we say about working on our reading comprehension skills in class.

to wit: the vet is in their 50s. They did not serve in Vietnam and no one said they did.

Hey, I gave up drinking, not failing to R>C>P.

I had an old dude try to claim to be a Vietnam veteran after becoming my sponsee (I was like 2 years sober maybe?) and I eventually got him to admit he had never been in the service, he was mentally unstable and not drafted. His brothers had served, however. Naturally one had died in Vietnam, and the other of I think cancer, and he did what I would do, and drank. I donít actively sponsor anymore, obviously.

Thought I could be useful in an edge case, in reality, no. No I cannot.

Crazyman69
Jun 8, 2023
Is this the correct forum to post about mental health stuff? I don't want to post in the wrong forum.

Nostalgia4Butts
Jun 1, 2006

WHERE MY HOSE DRINKERS AT

Crazyman69 posted:

Is this the correct forum to post about mental health stuff? I don't want to post in the wrong forum.

this is it yeah let loose

Crazyman69
Jun 8, 2023
Tried to PM you but I can't figure out how. Can you send me a slack invite? PM me and I'll send you my email unless you want me to post it here.

Last week was my birthday and I was severely depressed. My fiance left the house while I was down so I took a sheet, wrapped it around my neck and tied it to the door. At the last minute I backed out and was barely able to get the noose from around my neck before passing out. I just feel like life is letting me down and I am letting life down. I just turned 39 and am on depression meds. I tried to contact my psychiatrist but she's booked until the end of july. Is there anyone that I can have a private conversation with? A sounding board?

Crazyman69 fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jun 10, 2023

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

Crazyman69 posted:

Tried to PM you but I can't figure out how. Can you send me a slack invite? PM me and I'll send you my email unless you want me to post it here.

Last week was my birthday and I was severely depressed. My fiance left the house while I was down so I took a sheet, wrapped it around my neck and tied it to the door. At the last minute I backed out and was barely able to get the noose from around my neck before passing out. I just feel like life is letting me down and I am letting life down. I just turned 39 and am on depression meds. I tried to contact my psychiatrist but she's booked until the end of july. Is there anyone that I can have a private conversation with? A sounding board?

646-228-5925

i can relate to being severely depressed. I never attempted but I've really really thought about this poo poo at times. I've been in rooms where vets have talked about their attempts (no names ofc).

That sounds a lil hosed up on the psychiatrist end because they are supposed to do callbacks in emergencies. Nevertheless, I got you. Ring me whenever you want. If its monday-thursday I have class from 10am-12:25pm US EST, however I doubt it'll take you that long to contact me.

You ain't letting life down fam. Life is just life. Its a cruel uncaring mother at times but it is what we make of it.

Stanley Kubrick said "The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent, but if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light."

Its a bit harsh, but there is no lie in it. We gotta supply our own light. That said fighting all your life is loving exhausting and there is no shame in being down.

let a former corpsman get you back on your feet. bang my line fam.

Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

Crazyman69 posted:

Tried to PM you but I can't figure out how. Can you send me a slack invite? PM me and I'll send you my email unless you want me to post it here.

Last week was my birthday and I was severely depressed. My fiance left the house while I was down so I took a sheet, wrapped it around my neck and tied it to the door. At the last minute I backed out and was barely able to get the noose from around my neck before passing out. I just feel like life is letting me down and I am letting life down. I just turned 39 and am on depression meds. I tried to contact my psychiatrist but she's booked until the end of july. Is there anyone that I can have a private conversation with? A sounding board?

We have a discord server. Shoot me a PM and I will invite you if you are looking for more real time conversations.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

Hekk posted:

We have a discord server. Shoot me a PM and I will invite you if you are looking for more real time conversations.

he ain't got PMs hekk, gotta post that link in the clear

Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

Crazyman69 post your email or your discord user name here. I canít post an open invite but I can bring you in if you give me your info.

Crazyman69
Jun 8, 2023

Hekk posted:

Crazyman69 post your email or your discord user name here. I canít post an open invite but I can bring you in if you give me your info.

bluefalcontech@gmail.com

Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

Email sent. Let me know if you donít have it.

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk
I've gone through 10 years of suicidal depression earlier in my life, having been to the point of heading to the train tracks to end the problems one time. I'm in Sweden so if you are up in the middle of the night (assuming you are in the US), hit me up on Discord, serth varnee, and I got time whenever you need to talk and can't get around the mental block of having to wake someone up in the middle of the night.

Crazyman69
Jun 8, 2023

Hekk posted:

Email sent. Let me know if you donít have it.

I got it but I don't know where to go on it to continue talking to you guys.

Crazyman69
Jun 8, 2023

SerthVarnee posted:

I've gone through 10 years of suicidal depression earlier in my life, having been to the point of heading to the train tracks to end the problems one time. I'm in Sweden so if you are up in the middle of the night (assuming you are in the US), hit me up on Discord, serth varnee, and I got time whenever you need to talk and can't get around the mental block of having to wake someone up in the middle of the night.

I've been dealing with it for 20+ years. I even got diagnosed in the Corps and got an OTH. They won't approve my benefits. My discord username is daddymattos31426#2438

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk
Sent you a friend request. I'm just gonna go walk the dog, but if you need to talk after that, I'm fine with staying awake a few hours still.

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TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo


whoever is behind this needs to chill out. I have my suspicions of who it is but just incase i got the wrong one, let me address the bullshit today



whoever is so hurt by whatever I did in the past on that discord needs to go talk to their therapist. Get help. You have pushed beyond the pale into harassment and discrimination of an autistic person. It's not cool, it's actually kinda insane.

TheWeedNumber fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jun 30, 2023

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