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SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk
First off, this is absolutely last thread to ever tell you to shut up about being depressed about anything.
Second: Stop putting barriers and rationalizations in front of your own efforts to improve your situation.

:justpost:

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Arione
Aug 19, 2013

by Athanatos

SerthVarnee posted:

First off, this is absolutely last thread to ever tell you to shut up about being depressed about anything.
Second: Stop putting barriers and rationalizations in front of your own efforts to improve your situation.

:justpost:

I dont think there is any "improving the situation" But I'll lay it out there...

Got kicked out (retired) of the Navy in April for bi-polar disorder. Made E6 in 5 years, then started catching NJP's for the absolute dumbest poo poo.

#1 handed a fellow IT1 a clipboard "agressively" during an argument while conducting watch to watch crypto inventory, fucker was literally dragging his feet to make me miss breakfast. Article 91. 15 days restriction
#2 told the Petty Officer of the Watch that 86* was room temperature and a perfectly loving acceptable temperature for my networking gear in CCS to not loving call me at 0400 for dumb poo poo when I've been up for 2 days on weekend duty due to never ending bullshit. Hadn't slept since thursday night, it was sunday (monday morning) and I had just stood a 16 hour watch. Article 92 x2. reduction in rank 30/30
#3 Suggested a bb gun to keep a feral cat from destroying this guys 3rd convertable top jokingly in a private group, some peta member screened it and reported me to Navy IG. Got kicked out of DRB, not even allowed to salute out, made it to XOI, demanded court martial, it got dropped with a fat rear end Letter of Instruction from my XO and a MH referral.

I tested in march for E6 and made it first time back, results came out a month after I retired so it doesnt matter and I dont think I can really claim it.

So poo poo thats amazing, but still sucks.

Retired at 11 years as E5- constantly poo poo on by coworker contractors that did 20+ and were officers.

Own a pretty decent home, 2800 sqft - loving thing cost me 1.42M, my mortgage is almost 6k a month median home price here is 1.2M and with a 2.2% interest rate I can never move.

I'm in Hawaii - sounds cool right? Nope, I have absolutely zero friends, most locals automatically don't like me for being "haole". Due to this I basically have to stick to the extremely expensive tourist zones to feel even somewhat accepted and welcome. The real friends I have managed to make PCS in a few years, or the civilians say gently caress it and move back to mainland. Also on an island everyone is nice to each other, but it doesn't mean they really like you. Fake friends are super common and waiting to stab you in the back.

Have a great wife, she cooks, cleans, has similar interests etc. - She's 30 years older than me, been married twice before and constantly compares me to her shitbag ex husbands. Oh Ex#1 did that poo poo, ex #2 spent money on stupid poo poo too, etc etc, and anytime she does poo poo to piss me off and I calmly bring it up to her she flies off the loving handle and says the absolute meanest poo poo she can think of, slams doors, throws my poo poo. 2 nights ago I was trying to trim the palm trees she had just bitched at me for neglecting and removing bird nests from over the 2nd floor windows, it was 7pm so I have her hold the flashlight for me while I use the pole saw, its a 2500 lumen flashlight and she hits me in the eyes with it. I told her to make sure it doesnt point at me, and the throws the loving thing on the ground breaking the lens and storms off, I had just bought that god drat thing that afternoon and it wasnt cheap. One of the crazy pills they put me on made me gain like no poo poo 70 lbs so I'm not her cute trophy husband anymore. I got off them with my new doc but its not coming off very fast. She's also gained weight somehow and blames me for it. Also I'm gonna die alone.

Have 2 high end sports cars including what was in 2016 my dream car. - I'm on a god drat island and there is NOWHERE to drive and enjoy them, our freeway is 45 mph, that's 2nd gear.... The car scene here blows, cars and coffee is regular loving traffic, the Porsche club here is full of old gently caress snobs, and the exotics club is specifically "no Porsches" When I was stationed in Cali I had all the back roads my heart desired and endless options for clubs events etc, so I truly know what I'm missing out on.

Found a job super fast, 2 months before I got kicked out, pays well (120k) but due to all the taxes here, I'm making $1600 a month cash after taxes less than I did here as an E5. Also I'm not doing what I was hired to do. I'm consistently put into situations that are straight up OSHA violations and my real boss is back in Florida and is completely unreachable. I'm supposed to go through his 2 assistants but I can never get ahold of them, and when I do they act like I'm an idiot and wasting their time. I have like 6 different people screaming "no I'm Spartacus" fighting to be in charge at various levels. No consistency in the day to day, its random generic IT work sure, but mostly poo poo that's out of my depth and I feel like a loving retard constantly. I was hired to be a system administrator, 6 months in and I've done zero system administering.

So like I said, Champagne problems, but it seems for every good thing I seem to have, it absolutely sucks at the same time. IDK why I cant just look at the positives and be happy. Money doesn't buy happiness, but its better than crying in a trailer I guess. I just don't get to / cant enjoy the poo poo I should very obviously be enjoying.

Arione fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Sep 28, 2023

ASAPI
Apr 20, 2007
I invented the line.

Arione posted:


Got kicked out (retired) of the Navy in April for bi-polar disorder. Made E6 in 5 years, then started catching NJP's for the absolute dumbest poo poo.



Emphasis mine.

First things first. How are you doing with your meds and have you mentioned this to your doctor yet? I know it can be difficult at times for people with bi-polar to feel "right". You may want to see about adjusting things to help some. If you aren't already, I would try some talk therapy in addition to whatever visits you have for meds.

Second, are you sure you want to stay in Hawaii?

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk

Arione posted:

I dont think there is any "improving the situation" But I'll lay it out there...

Got kicked out (retired) of the Navy in April for bi-polar disorder. Made E6 in 5 years, then started catching NJP's for the absolute dumbest poo poo.

#1 handed a fellow IT1 a clipboard "agressively" during an argument while conducting watch to watch crypto inventory, fucker was literally dragging his feet to make me miss breakfast. Article 91. 15 days restriction
#2 told the Petty Officer of the Watch that 86* was room temperature and a perfectly loving acceptable temperature for my networking gear in CCS to not loving call me at 0400 for dumb poo poo when I've been up for 2 days on weekend duty due to never ending bullshit. Hadn't slept since thursday night, it was sunday (monday morning) and I had just stood a 16 hour watch. Article 92 x2. reduction in rank 30/30
#3 Suggested a bb gun to keep a feral cat from destroying this guys 3rd convertable top jokingly in a private group, some peta member screened it and reported me to Navy IG. Got kicked out of DRB, not even allowed to salute out, made it to XOI, demanded court martial, it got dropped with a fat rear end Letter of Instruction from my XO and a MH referral.

I tested in march for E6 and made it first time back, results came out a month after I retired so it doesnt matter and I dont think I can really claim it.

So poo poo thats amazing, but still sucks.

Retired at 11 years as E5- constantly poo poo on by coworker contractors that did 20+ and were officers.

Own a pretty decent home, 288 sqft - loving thing cost me 1.42M, my mortgage is almost 6k a month median home price here is 1.2M and with a 2.2% interest rate I can never move.

I'm in Hawaii - sounds cool right? Nope, I have absolutely zero friends, most locals automatically don't like me for being "haole". Due to this I basically have to stick to the extremely expensive tourist zones to feel even somewhat accepted and welcome. The real friends I have managed to make PCS in a few years, or the civilians say gently caress it and move back to mainland. Also on an island everyone is nice to each other, but it doesn't mean they really like you. Fake friends are super common and waiting to stab you in the back.

Have a great wife, she cooks, cleans, has similar interests etc. - She's 30 years older than me, been married twice before and constantly compares me to her shitbag ex husbands. Oh Ex#1 did that poo poo, ex #2 spent money on stupid poo poo too, etc etc, and anytime she does poo poo to piss me off and I calmly bring it up to her she flies off the loving handle and says the absolute meanest poo poo she can think of, slams doors, throws my poo poo. 2 nights ago I was trying to trim the palm trees she had just bitched at me for neglecting and removing bird nests from over the 2nd floor windows, it was 7pm so I have her hold the flashlight for me while I use the pole saw, its a 2500 lumen flashlight and she hits me in the eyes with it. I told her to make sure it doesnt point at me, and the throws the loving thing on the ground breaking the lens and storms off, I had just bought that god drat thing that afternoon and it wasnt cheap. One of the crazy pills they put me on made me gain like no poo poo 70 lbs so I'm not her cute trophy husband anymore. I got off them with my new doc but its not coming off very fast. She's also gained weight somehow and blames me for it. Also I'm gonna die alone.

Have 2 high end sports cars including what was in 2016 my dream car. - I'm on a god drat island and there is NOWHERE to drive and enjoy them, our freeway is 45 mph, that's 2nd gear.... The car scene here blows, cars and coffee is regular loving traffic, the Porsche club here is full of old gently caress snobs, and the exotics club is specifically "no Porsches" When I was stationed in Cali I had all the back roads my heart desired and endless options for clubs events etc, so I truly know what I'm missing out on.

Found a job super fast, 2 months before I got kicked out, pays well (120k) but due to all the taxes here, I'm making $1600 a month cash after taxes less than I did here as an E5. Also I'm not doing what I was hired to do. I'm consistently put into situations that are straight up OSHA violations and my real boss is back in Florida and is completely unreachable. I'm supposed to go through his 2 assistants but I can never get ahold of them, and when I do they act like I'm an idiot and wasting their time. I have like 6 different people screaming "no I'm Spartacus" fighting to be in charge at various levels. No consistency in the day to day, its random generic IT work sure, but mostly poo poo that's out of my depth and I feel like a loving retard constantly. I was hired to be a system administrator, 6 months in and I've done zero system administering.

So like I said, Champagne problems, but it seems for every good thing I seem to have, it absolutely sucks at the same time. IDK why I cant just look at the positives and be happy. Money doesn't buy happiness, but its better than crying in a trailer I guess. I just don't get to / cant enjoy the poo poo I should very obviously be enjoying.

Lets condense that down a bit shall we?

Got royally hosed over during your time in.
Regularly snubbed by coworkers for living with conditions outside of your control.
Decent/good house but at a sickeningly expensive cost (I assume, not American here).
Live in a place with zero successful networking and a diminishing number of actual connections you enjoy spending time with.
Conflicted views of your marriage trending quickly towards the negatives outweighing the positives.
Expectation is that you'll die alone.
Medicine is loving with your health.
Local area is actively prohibitive towards your main hobby.
Job is frustrating, pays underwhelmingly due to cost of living and local taxes.
Job repeatedly has you commit OHSA violations, has no clear leadership chain, doesn't actually involve the job you were hired to do.

I think I can see why you have some issues focusing on the positives. Don't measure your happiness against the wealth and perceived hardships of others.
If you aren't happy, you aren't happy.

A ton of these issues seem to be centered around living in Hawaii.
I'd suggest that as a the first possibility towards making a positive life change.
Second, I'd consider looking into finding a better job.
Third, finding a secondary hobby that you could focus on while living in Hawaii might be good for you until you can move to somewhere where you can actually enjoy your primary hobby.

Seconding what Asapi said about the medicine.

SerthVarnee fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 28, 2023

Arione
Aug 19, 2013

by Athanatos

ASAPI posted:

Emphasis mine.

First things first. How are you doing with your meds and have you mentioned this to your doctor yet? I know it can be difficult at times for people with bi-polar to feel "right". You may want to see about adjusting things to help some. If you aren't already, I would try some talk therapy in addition to whatever visits you have for meds.

Second, are you sure you want to stay in Hawaii?

Yeah, hated talk therapy and its never helped. Last psychologist basically told me I was a child and a spoiled rich kid.

Taking the meds, psychiatrist likes the ones I'm already on, says im stable and we meet every 3 months at this point.

No I absolutely loving hate Hawaii, but my wife wont leave and I dont want to get divorced. I'm stuck here for the next 20 or so years, then I'll move back to florida, sell the house, and live off my VA and w/e 401k I can build. Ill be 56 at that point and maybe I can find some gold digger 20 year old to leave eveything to, idk never having kids. Dont want em anyways, gotta give it all to someone.

Arione fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Sep 28, 2023

ASAPI
Apr 20, 2007
I invented the line.

Arione posted:

Yeah, hated talk therapy and its never helped. Last psychologist basically told me I was a child and a spoiled rich kid.

Taking the meds, psychiatrist likes the ones I'm already on, says im stable and we meet every 3 months at this point.

No I absolutely loving hate Hawaii, but my wife wont leave and I dont want to get divorced. I'm stuck here for the next 20 or so years, then I'll move back to florida, sell the house, and live off my VA and w/e 401k I can build. Ill be 56 at that point and maybe I can find some gold digger 20 year old to leave eveything to, idk never having kids. Dont want em anyways, gotta give it all to someone.

Give talk therapy another try. Make sure you and the therapist mesh right. Sometimes, therapists have to tell you things you either don't want to hear or have a hard time dealing with/unpacking. Many (if not all of us) had to learn some hard truths and do quite a bit of internal assessment over the years, especially when seeing a therapist.

At first, it really sucks (at least it did for me). After a while, you gain some different perspectives and mental tools. Then it starts paying off.

How you previously described your wife and what you mentioned in the above quote is telling me that you would likely benefit from some talk therapy, especially concerning your relationships. You might need some alone time, as in not in a relationship alone. Work on yourself some.

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk
Marriages are supposed to be an exercise in compromise in order to get a life you are both happy with or at least willing to accept.

What you have described seems a lot more like "you get to shut the gently caress up about what you want and I get whatever I want. Don't like it? Wait until I die and you can sort your life out for yourself."

So yeah, I can see why you aren't happy with the way things are going and having your psychologist imply (or directly state) that you are being a child and a spoiled kid is not helpful in any way even though it might have been an attempt to make you think about your own part of the whole "both people making compromises".
Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. Right now I'm not seeing that as being the biggest impedance to your enjoyment of life.
You are stuck and you feel caged/unable to get unstuck due to relationships and constraints outside of your control.

Arione
Aug 19, 2013

by Athanatos

SerthVarnee posted:

Marriages are supposed to be an exercise in compromise in order to get a life you are both happy with or at least willing to accept.

What you have described seems a lot more like "you get to shut the gently caress up about what you want and I get whatever I want. Don't like it? Wait until I die and you can sort your life out for yourself."

So yeah, I can see why you aren't happy with the way things are going and having your psychologist imply (or directly state) that you are being a child and a spoiled kid is not helpful in any way even though it might have been an attempt to make you think about your own part of the whole "both people making compromises".
Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. Right now I'm not seeing that as being the biggest impedance to your enjoyment of life.
You are stuck and you feel caged/unable to get unstuck due to relationships and constraints outside of your control.

Oh it was directly stated, she also tried to say I was malingering, and was simply a drunk with obsessive compulsive personality disorder and narcaasistic personality disorder. As well as a slew of other deragoratary statements related to my wife, my lifestyle and general life choices, I ended up going to patient advocacy who sent me out in town to a neutral psych clinic where the diagnosed me BP1, the Navy freaked out and put me through a battery of written tests hundreds (thousands?) of questions long. They then had me do weekly meetings with a uniformed shrink instead of the civilian I filed against and they relented and put me in for the medboard, but then they discounted it and said I was only BP (unspecified). Was an absolute poo poo show and I know why service members stay quiet with their issues. Luckily I have a year + of doc's notes from my out in town shrink and the VA took the BP1 diagnosis over the BPU the Navy tired to claim.

Arione
Aug 19, 2013

by Athanatos

SerthVarnee posted:

Marriages are supposed to be an exercise in compromise in order to get a life you are both happy with or at least willing to accept.

What you have described seems a lot more like "you get to shut the gently caress up about what you want and I get whatever I want. Don't like it? Wait until I die and you can sort your life out for yourself."

So yeah, I can see why you aren't happy with the way things are going and having your psychologist imply (or directly state) that you are being a child and a spoiled kid is not helpful in any way even though it might have been an attempt to make you think about your own part of the whole "both people making compromises".
Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. Right now I'm not seeing that as being the biggest impedance to your enjoyment of life.
You are stuck and you feel caged/unable to get unstuck due to relationships and constraints outside of your control.

Yeah, basically. But in the past shes always made 2x what I did ( shes a credit union executive) so she more or less made the rules. We met 9 years ago married for 8 at my first duty station (hawaii) in the Porsche club. My LCPO told me not to buy a sports car, so I bought a Boxster S that weekend because #fuckchiefs. She's retiring in 5 years due to a massive retention pay out if she completes employment to that time. I'm hoping to reengage moving at that time. By that time her Hanai will be gone (shes in her mid 80's) and will have less roots holding here here. Dont get me wrong, there's alot of positives to the marriage, and she doesnt look or act her age, definitely mid-late 40's looking tho. Multiple shared interests (cars, golf, whiskys, cigars). Divorce isnt even a consideration. It's just obvious her past baggage causes issues when I try and bring poo poo up that I dont like. First husband was hella abusive and 2nd was a deadbeat.

She quit her job when I PCSed to So Cal, but the company there hosed her over and she cashed out 300k ish to supplement her loss of income. Still blames me for this. When I was deployed she moved back to hawaii for a job and I couldnt really argue. I ended up doing a year geobach and hard balled the navy into giving me orders back to hawaii for shore duty.

But yeah, Like I said, I dont see a way to improve anything, it just sucks. I've looked for other IT jobs here but they are only offering 80-95k and I cant afford to take that kind of pay cut. At least I dont work nights / weekends.

Arione fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Sep 28, 2023

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
I just started therapy for the first time a few months ago, I highly recommend doing a lot of searching to find the right therapist for you. Mine is expensive but I think she's worth the cost.

I just kept looking until I found one who had an outlook on therapy/life philosophy that appealed to me the most.

Nick Soapdish
Apr 27, 2008


Has anyone made a claim from mental health issues, specifically PTSD, they did not claim while in service? I am currently 10% from tendinious and minor knee issues. I always tried to be the good Chief and tell my young Sailors to seek help as it would not negatively affect their career or security clearance. As I told them this, I did not seek treatment myself but I went back to grad school for an MSW and became a Therapist to help folks. Recently, I had a panic attack when the smoke alarm triggered with zero warning (no smoke or high heat) while my spouse and it really hosed me up. My main issue is did anyone work through the VA to get a diagnosis and then compensation or am I better working outside and then making a claim for PTSD?

Arione
Aug 19, 2013

by Athanatos

Nick Soapdish posted:

Has anyone made a claim from mental health issues, specifically PTSD, they did not claim while in service? I am currently 10% from tendinious and minor knee issues. I always tried to be the good Chief and tell my young Sailors to seek help as it would not negatively affect their career or security clearance. As I told them this, I did not seek treatment myself but I went back to grad school for an MSW and became a Therapist to help folks. Recently, I had a panic attack when the smoke alarm triggered with zero warning (no smoke or high heat) while my spouse and it really hosed me up. My main issue is did anyone work through the VA to get a diagnosis and then compensation or am I better working outside and then making a claim for PTSD?

Work outside preferably through tricare, then present it to the VA when its in writing

The Valley Stared
Nov 4, 2009
I found out last night that an officer I worked with briefly on the Fitzgerald committed suicide.

What's both shocking to me and also that hit of realization is that I exchanged several e-mails with him not even two weeks ago. He reached out to see how I was doing which was a surprise as we didn't work together long, and hadn't been close. I told him that I was doing well, gave him a brief update on what was going on in my life, and promised that I'd keep him up to speed on what was happening with my career.

Part of me wonders if he was trying to subtly seek help too, and none of us realized it.

This is now the third person I've worked with from that ship that's ended their life. While he wasn't there for the collision, I know that he was deeply affected by it, and was conflicted by deciding to stay in the service and continue on as an XO/CO of ships.

I hope that he's found some peace, but I also know that he left behind a lot of people that will miss him.

ASAPI
Apr 20, 2007
I invented the line.

The Valley Stared posted:

I found out last night that an officer I worked with briefly on the Fitzgerald committed suicide.

What's both shocking to me and also that hit of realization is that I exchanged several e-mails with him not even two weeks ago. He reached out to see how I was doing which was a surprise as we didn't work together long, and hadn't been close. I told him that I was doing well, gave him a brief update on what was going on in my life, and promised that I'd keep him up to speed on what was happening with my career.

Part of me wonders if he was trying to subtly seek help too, and none of us realized it.

This is now the third person I've worked with from that ship that's ended their life. While he wasn't there for the collision, I know that he was deeply affected by it, and was conflicted by deciding to stay in the service and continue on as an XO/CO of ships.

I hope that he's found some peace, but I also know that he left behind a lot of people that will miss him.

Man, that really sucks. I think many of us have had similar happen in the past. It can be hard as hell to figure out if someone is reaching out for info/to catch up or if they are really asking for help/"getting their lives in order", I've only caught it once. (and that was really because another person I happened to be in touch with mentioned an odd interaction with that person)

I'm sorry that this happened both to you, and your shipmate.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


I trained a coworker on a new job witch got him a decent raise and he killed himself the day before he was suppose to start his new job.
We had spent an intensive 2 weeks together in addition to him being my driver for 6+ months with just the two of us in the vehicle.

Itís not your fault the signs are not always easy to see.

Butter Activities
May 4, 2018

Nv

Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jan 31, 2024

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003


Went to therapy for the first time today. It was pretty loving awesome. Early trip report is that she is keen to unbox my Naval career like a nesting doll.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
So I really like the therapist I have and I've been seeing her for nearly a year now. She's also really expensive and out of network. I start my first post gradschool job next week, what should I be looking for in regard to health care options to sign up for to get my insurance to cover all or part of the cost of a therapist? I have no idea how healthcare, particularly mental healthcare, works in this god forsaken country.

I've just been using the VA as my primary provider since I left the Army and I know they won't cover the cost of a out of network therapist but I'm hoping whatever I can choose from at my new job I'll be able to pick one that does.

fresh_cheese
Jul 2, 2014

MY KPI IS HOW MANY VP NUTS I SUCK IN A FISCAL YEAR AND MY LAST THREE OFFICE CHAIRS COMMITTED SUICIDE
I think one of the changes ACA drove was better mental health coverage on the market overall.

Mind you its still not good coverage, its just that previously you mostly got gently caress all mental health coverage pre ACA.

If you have more than one option for health insurance you should have time to research the plans available and whether your providers are in plan or not. They should have a ďprovider lookupĒ web page or similar for each plan available that you can use to determine whoís in network for what plan.

Spending a Saturday making yourself a spreadsheet to forecast and compare what your real costs will be may not be fun, but it will absolutely pay off if your health situation is at all more complicated than 1 healthy checkup from a primary per year and an occasional visit to urgent care for minor stitches or whatever. Just build it out like a monthly budget with your monthly premium costs youíll be paying and expected costs for doc visits, and be sure to include any prescriptions (sp?) you have.

Yeah, a lot of those numbers youíre starting from for the up front costs that you pay some fraction of will be guesses, but youíre looking at the difference between the plans over time, cumulatively.

Like one plan may pay less towards visits to medical specialists like ENT Allergy, but pay more of a fraction for mental health or cover more mental health visits. Which one is better for you depends on how often you need to go to the allergy doc vs how often you need to go to the therapist.

Make sure you include your current VA care costs as another option

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006
Grimey Drawer
Iíve got a situation this thread might have helpful input for.

TLDR version: a friend of a friend is at Ft Campbell and having a really rough time. Heís having some sort of spousal issues and states that he contemplating self harm off and on as a result. My friend, Mike, is rightly alarmed by this and is poking around for a way to get his buddy the help he needs. He would like to do that in a way that doesnít immediately bring misery via chain of command overreactionóbut he is also aware that if the situation gets bad enough, that is a line Mike is willing to cross. I donít know what unit the guy is in, so I gave him the numbers of both the post chaplainís office and the SD officer for post.

Iíve been a civilian for nearly 15 years now, so Iím not sure what new resources might exist, or what the current climate is for getting soldiers help without ending their careers, making the situation worse with inhumane suicide watches, or anything else. My tentative advice was to talk to him, get him in touch with the chaplainís office first even if heís not religious, and be ready to call SD if any great of imminent self harm surfaces.

Iíd appreciate any input or extra thoughts. I donít know this guy personally, but he means a lot to my friend and Mike would be crushed if anything happened to him.

ASAPI
Apr 20, 2007
I invented the line.

Weltlich posted:

Iíve got a situation this thread might have helpful input for.

TLDR version: a friend of a friend is at Ft Campbell and having a really rough time. Heís having some sort of spousal issues and states that he contemplating self harm off and on as a result. My friend, Mike, is rightly alarmed by this and is poking around for a way to get his buddy the help he needs. He would like to do that in a way that doesnít immediately bring misery via chain of command overreactionóbut he is also aware that if the situation gets bad enough, that is a line Mike is willing to cross. I donít know what unit the guy is in, so I gave him the numbers of both the post chaplainís office and the SD officer for post.

Iíve been a civilian for nearly 15 years now, so Iím not sure what new resources might exist, or what the current climate is for getting soldiers help without ending their careers, making the situation worse with inhumane suicide watches, or anything else. My tentative advice was to talk to him, get him in touch with the chaplainís office first even if heís not religious, and be ready to call SD if any great of imminent self harm surfaces.

Iíd appreciate any input or extra thoughts. I donít know this guy personally, but he means a lot to my friend and Mike would be crushed if anything happened to him.

I've been out for a while, but saw that no one has replied yet. Assuming that things have stayed vaguely the same(ish) since I have been in, there are a few things to consider.

In general, it will always be better for your friend if they seek help themselves. Things escalating to an attempt, requiring outside intervention, is the exact thing that gets (or should get) the chain of command involved.

Giving the numbers is a good start, his unit likely has some form of civilian counselor attached to it (they still have those MFLC guys right?) which might be another option. The issue becomes that your friend needs to seek the help themselves for it to "help" beyond a quick bandaid. The goal should be longer term therapy and possibly meds to help with treatment, it can be hard to "force" that onto someone.

In the meantime, contact helps. If everyone keeps in touch with him, checking up and reiterating the need for professional follow up therapy, it will hopefully push him in a direction that leads to help. If/when he says that he is going to harm himself, you have no choice but to get emergency services involved, which involves the chain of command.

Almost every time I have been through this in the past with others, there was a physical substance abuse issue as well, usually alcohol. Addressing the substance abuse concerns almost seemed more effective at getting them help than focusing on the depression/suicidal ideations. Completely anecdotal, but worth noting that substance abuse seems to be "curable" in some minds while depression isn't. I don't claim to know why/how that works, but I have had luck with it in the past.

Hope your friend gets the help they need.

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006
Grimey Drawer

ASAPI posted:

I've been out for a while, but saw that no one has replied yet. Assuming that things have stayed vaguely the same(ish) since I have been in, there are a few things to consider.

In general, it will always be better for your friend if they seek help themselves. Things escalating to an attempt, requiring outside intervention, is the exact thing that gets (or should get) the chain of command involved.

Giving the numbers is a good start, his unit likely has some form of civilian counselor attached to it (they still have those MFLC guys right?) which might be another option. The issue becomes that your friend needs to seek the help themselves for it to "help" beyond a quick bandaid. The goal should be longer term therapy and possibly meds to help with treatment, it can be hard to "force" that onto someone.

In the meantime, contact helps. If everyone keeps in touch with him, checking up and reiterating the need for professional follow up therapy, it will hopefully push him in a direction that leads to help. If/when he says that he is going to harm himself, you have no choice but to get emergency services involved, which involves the chain of command.

Almost every time I have been through this in the past with others, there was a physical substance abuse issue as well, usually alcohol. Addressing the substance abuse concerns almost seemed more effective at getting them help than focusing on the depression/suicidal ideations. Completely anecdotal, but worth noting that substance abuse seems to be "curable" in some minds while depression isn't. I don't claim to know why/how that works, but I have had luck with it in the past.

Hope your friend gets the help they need.

Thanks much and Iíll pass all that along. Iím not sure if there is a substance issue, but I wouldnít doubt it.

The MFLC is a new one for me, but Iíll look it up and suggest that. When I got out none of that had been phased in and it was pretty barren as far as mental health support went. I hope that has changed but I also have no idea what the current climate is in that regard.

Either way, Iíll give this to Mike so he has a better toolkit to work with his buddy. Thanks much!

rifles
Oct 8, 2007
is this thing working

Weltlich posted:

Thanks much and Iíll pass all that along. Iím not sure if there is a substance issue, but I wouldnít doubt it.

The MFLC is a new one for me, but Iíll look it up and suggest that. When I got out none of that had been phased in and it was pretty barren as far as mental health support went. I hope that has changed but I also have no idea what the current climate is in that regard.

Either way, Iíll give this to Mike so he has a better toolkit to work with his buddy. Thanks much!

https://www.militaryonesource.mil/benefits/confidential-non-medical-counseling/ is also a fantastic resource for counseling/therapy. It's "non-medical" in that they can't prescribe medication or make any diagnosis, but I used it in the past and had a great experience with a fantastic therapist who helped make some recommendations for me that I took to my primary care. I basically went in and asked what the left/right limits are and then gave my background and we were off from there for 12 sessions. You get 12 sessions per issue, and can update your referral by calling Military OneSource and having them refer you for another issue (ie a family problem, then later a problem adjusting to work etc). It felt like a very wink-wink program in that everyone almost guided me to saying the right things to get a referral from the program. Totally confidential, no notification to CoC etc as well. It can provide what BH doesn't which is continuity, availability, discretion, and actual 1-on-1 therapy.

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006
Grimey Drawer

rifles posted:

https://www.militaryonesource.mil/benefits/confidential-non-medical-counseling/ is also a fantastic resource for counseling/therapy. It's "non-medical" in that they can't prescribe medication or make any diagnosis, but I used it in the past and had a great experience with a fantastic therapist who helped make some recommendations for me that I took to my primary care. I basically went in and asked what the left/right limits are and then gave my background and we were off from there for 12 sessions. You get 12 sessions per issue, and can update your referral by calling Military OneSource and having them refer you for another issue (ie a family problem, then later a problem adjusting to work etc). It felt like a very wink-wink program in that everyone almost guided me to saying the right things to get a referral from the program. Totally confidential, no notification to CoC etc as well. It can provide what BH doesn't which is continuity, availability, discretion, and actual 1-on-1 therapy.

This is fantastic, thanks. Iíll pass this along asap.

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Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





I went to my old AA group today and found that someone I knew, cared about, respected and loved killed himself yesterday. I've known him since I got sober over 8 years ago.
Please reach out if you are hurting. I don't want to hear about another person.


RIP Paul M, you were better than you knew.

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