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Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

I ate too much crab and transformed into this.



All those reports and nobody punished?

Racism!

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MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



mlmp08 posted:

Yeah, why fight it anyway, it's not like it's hurting anyone

It isn't a disease. You aren't going come up with some magical vaccination against it.

OWLS!
Sep 17, 2009

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Marvin K. Mooney posted:

A better question is why so many people can't accept that racism is still prevalent and feel the need to constantly deny benefiting from it.

A better question yet, why do people insist that racism can be somehow cured, where psychological research shows that we tend to discriminate against people who are not in our in-group in general. Race being just yet another in-group.

Marvin K. Mooney
Jan 2, 2008

poop ship
destroyer


Can't abolish it, better pretend it doesn't exist.

CHECK

MATE

djdanno13
Apr 20, 2004

Killing Nazi Zombies since June 14 1775



I think what people find upsetting about "white privilege" is that this somehow makes it sound like minorities are completely unable to make it no matter what. This creates an attitude of victimhood that is completely false. Just because fewer black women received a response on ok cupid doesn't mean zero black women received a response. Look I won't deny that things are easier when you belong to the majority race but the great thing about America is that we are actually probably the least racist when it comes to economic opportunity. If you don't believe me then tell me how great it is for whites or blacks in a country such as south Korea.

Look the point is that we should continue to make society better but we also should reinforce that meritocracy does exist for all races. You're not screwed if you're black and are born in America. You have a better chance at a great life than 80% of the rest of the world.

Every single person in America has the same freedoms but we do not have the same opportunities due to family, wealth, connections, or talents. Life is not fair but I feel like America is the closest to fair that we can achieve on earth.

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


djdanno13 posted:

Look the point is that we should continue to make society better but we also should reinforce that meritocracy does exist for all races. You're not screwed if you're black and are born in America. You have a better chance at a great life than 80% of the rest of the world.

Every single person in America has the same freedoms but we do not have the same opportunities due to family, wealth, connections, or talents. Life is not fair but I feel like America is the closest to fair that we can achieve on earth.

If you're born poor and black and in a poor area you're basically hosed though. I understand your point that we have to make an environment where people don't give up, but America is objectively worse to be born poor in than other first world nations and is absolutely not the closest to fair we can achieve.

Also the issue with strong believe in meritocracy is the implication that people who don't succeed or are poor must in turn be lazy and stupid and deserving of it, which is an attitude which is toxic to society when combined with people just absolutely refusing to acknowledge that there are also other factors at play.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

It has been heavily established that the worst part about racism in America is that some poor white person might get their feelings hurt when reminded that racism exists.

Case in point, rather than think about things, you get half-baked idioitic ideas and anger meltdowns like this when you bring up that it's advantageous to be white in America

Fang posted:

It's becoming increasingly clear how you've reached the conclusion that any success in your life can't be attributed to merit.

Fang posted:

It wasn't an argument; it was a personal insult. I knew you couldn't tell the difference.

I won't lie, I'm not sorry that I hurt your feelings by explaining reality.

mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Apr 10, 2017

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



djdanno13 posted:

I think what people find upsetting about "white privilege" is that this somehow makes it sound like minorities are completely unable to make it no matter what. This creates an attitude of victimhood that is completely false. Just because fewer black women received a response on ok cupid doesn't mean zero black women received a response. Look I won't deny that things are easier when you belong to the majority race but the great thing about America is that we are actually probably the least racist when it comes to economic opportunity. If you don't believe me then tell me how great it is for whites or blacks in a country such as south Korea.

Look the point is that we should continue to make society better but we also should reinforce that meritocracy does exist for all races. You're not screwed if you're black and are born in America. You have a better chance at a great life than 80% of the rest of the world.

Every single person in America has the same freedoms but we do not have the same opportunities due to family, wealth, connections, or talents. Life is not fair but I feel like America is the closest to fair that we can achieve on earth.

"white privilege" also most loudly and commonly used by, say, incredibly comfortable silver-spoon-in-mouth New York bougies wielding their social studies degree to entirely dismiss the idea that, say, a twelve-years unemployed guy drinking poison water in a foreclosed trailer in West Virginia has any real problems that merit acknowledgement let alone addressing so long as he's white

it's a real thing but you're not going to easily divorce the term from its modern-day context of class-blind corporate liberalism in the minds of a general audience.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


So uh... is this the D&D anthem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDydKwmrHFo

And, y'know, mildly related to the current topics at hand.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

I ate too much crab and transformed into this.



White privilege is not getting a 24h cool down when insulting someone and admitting it.

Glad you could help out Fang.

User
May 3, 2002

by FactsAreUseless


Nap Ghost

djdanno13 posted:

I think what people find upsetting about "white privilege" is that this somehow makes it sound like minorities are completely unable to make it no matter what. This creates an attitude of victimhood that is completely false.

And yet false attitudes of victimhood have observably materially benefited certain minority ethnic groups.

LimburgLimbo posted:

If you're born poor and black and in a poor area you're basically hosed though.

Wow racist, it's like you think blacks are just inherently inferior and are incapable of achieving anything without outside help.

User fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Apr 10, 2017

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

"white privilege" also most loudly and commonly used by, say, incredibly comfortable silver-spoon-in-mouth New York bougies wielding their social studies degree to entirely dismiss the idea that, say, a twelve-years unemployed guy drinking poison water in a foreclosed trailer in West Virginia has any real problems that merit acknowledgement let alone addressing so long as he's white

it's a real thing but you're not going to easily divorce the term from its modern-day context of class-blind corporate liberalism in the minds of a general audience.

Especially not because there are parties who have set out with the specific goal of making sure thats the case, for political and financial gain.

Which is ironic because the same things which would be a major step in reducing racial inequality; greater social services and safety nets, better/cheaper education, etc. would also help poor white people. People fighting against poverty sometimes concentrate on the issues in the black community because they're disproportionately affected, but nobody serious says that "there is no white poverty".

This isn't to say such assholes don't exist on the left, just as actual neo-nazis etc. exist on the right, but to say that that's "the left"s official platform is absolutely wrong, and a notion that is intentionally reinforced by alt-right media, for their own profit.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




User posted:

And yet false attitudes of victimhood have observably materially benefited certain minority ethnic groups.

Conservatives are an ethnic minority?

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


User posted:

And yet false attitudes of victimhood have observably materially benefited certain minority ethnic groups.


Wow racist, it's like you think blacks are just inherently inferior and are incapable of achieving anything without outside help.

What?
Everybody gets help. Organizations, people, and institutions. Nobody is truly self made.
The point is that certain people by luck of the draw at birth are going to get less help from many of those.

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


BeAuMaN posted:

So uh... is this the D&D anthem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDydKwmrHFo

And, y'know, mildly related to the current topics at hand.

Finally someone recognized my greatness.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



LimburgLimbo posted:

Especially not because there are parties who have set out with the specific goal of making sure thats the case, for political and financial gain.

Which is ironic because the same things which would be a major step in reducing racial inequality; greater social services and safety nets, better/cheaper education, etc. would also help poor white people. People fighting against poverty sometimes concentrate on the issues in the black community because they're disproportionately affected, but nobody serious says that "there is no white poverty".

This isn't to say such assholes don't exist on the left, just as actual neo-nazis etc. exist on the right, but to say that that's "the left"s official platform is absolutely wrong, and a notion that is intentionally reinforced by alt-right media, for their own profit.

uh was the Clinton campaign "alt-right media"? The Democrats just had a pretty significant public demonstration of what regard they hold economics in, are you just gonna yell 'fake news' about all record of the year 2016 now? they don't deny there's white poverty, they just want badly to change the subject any time inequity of any kind not experienced by movie stars comes up

Like, "black-on-black crime" is a real thing too, but it wasn't a sinister conspiracy by the twelve antifa guys on 4chan that made that specific phrasing bode some mouthbreather reciting Nazi propaganda at you instead of an in-depth sociological analysis of the effects of endemic poverty.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 10, 2017

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


Oh hey, loving finally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hUDl9uN8Zc

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



IMHO the personal insults aren't as bad as the multiple "SOME-body's in TROUB-le!" snitchposts that follow. You snitches should confine your snitching to the snitchbutton.

User
May 3, 2002

by FactsAreUseless


Nap Ghost

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

Like, "black-on-black crime" is a real thing too, but it wasn't a sinister conspiracy by the twelve antifa guys on 4chan that made that specific phrasing bode some mouthbreather reciting Nazi propaganda at you instead of an in-depth sociological analysis of the effects of endemic poverty.

Poverty is an effect not a cause. You'll never fix anything if you can't even get the causality right. This is why central planning is so terrifying, the central planners usually don't really know what they're doing, are crooked, or both.

Marvin K. Mooney
Jan 2, 2008

poop ship
destroyer


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

uh was the Clinton campaign "alt-right media"? The Democrats just had a pretty significant public demonstration of what regard they hold economics in, are you just gonna yell 'fake news' about all record of the year 2016 now? they don't deny there's white poverty, they just want badly to change the subject any time inequity of any kind not experienced by movie stars comes up

Like, "black-on-black crime" is a real thing too, but it wasn't a sinister conspiracy by the twelve antifa guys on 4chan that made that specific phrasing bode some mouthbreather reciting Nazi propaganda at you instead of an in-depth sociological analysis of the effects of endemic poverty.

His point was that it's in the interest of moneyed powers that the rabble associate the term "white privilege" with Clintonite neoliberalism because it allows them to dismiss it, which is exactly what you do and did.

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



User posted:

Poverty is an effect not a cause. You'll never fix anything if you can't even get the causality right. This is why central planning is so terrifying, the central planners usually don't really know what they're doing, are crooked, or both.

Oh poo poo. What's the cause? How do we fix it? I bet the real cause is welfare, isn't it?

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Marvin K. Mooney posted:

His point was that it's in the interest of moneyed powers that the rabble associate the term "white privilege" with Clintonite neoliberalism because it allows them to dismiss it, which is exactly what you do and did.

convenient for them, then, that you're too good to stoop to the level of 'the rabble' and discuss your ideas that you totally understand in terms that won't provoke an instant negative reaction, because the really important thing is the subtext of using the exact same verbage as every other latte liberal trying to browbeat the unwoke on the internet and not the literal substance of racial inequity.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Apr 10, 2017

Proper Kerni ng
Nov 14, 2011



Pitch posted:

hi if you read "white" and "American" as synonyms you are in fact a racist
Pretty much any time Race In America is the topic, "heritage" is functionally the same as "Hitler" on the scale; it's as inevitable as a drum solo that sooner or later someone is going to volunteer to auto-lose the argument by being the first one to bring it up.

djdanno13 posted:

Look I won't deny that things are easier when you belong to the majority race but the great thing about America is that we are actually probably the least racist when it comes to economic opportunity. If you don't believe me then tell me how great it is for whites or blacks in a country such as south Korea.
Amigo, I could tell you some (secondhand) stories about how great it is for Koreans in South Korea who happen to have an insufficiently round face, so they look kindasorta Japaneseyish in the wrong light. Every Actually-Asian-American person I've ever known has some luridly awful stories about the kind of True Believer racism you get in east Asia.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



You think something is bad here, you should see how bad it is somewhere else!

User
May 3, 2002

by FactsAreUseless


Nap Ghost

frunksock posted:

Oh poo poo. What's the cause? How do we fix it? I bet the real cause is welfare, isn't it?

Try harder with the straw men, you're not even trolling. What do you think it is?

The real answer is: behavior patterns

Marvin K. Mooney
Jan 2, 2008

poop ship
destroyer


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

convenient for them, then, that you're too good to stoop to the level of 'the rabble' and discuss your ideas that you totally understand in terms that won't provoke an instant negative reaction, because the really important thing is the subtext of using the exact same verbage as every other latte liberal trying to browbeat the unwoke on the internet and not the literal substance of racial inequity.

You could use whatever "verbage" you want and you would still get people denying the concept because a generation of identity politics has associated it so strongly with neoliberal Democrats that people are unironically using "latte liberal" in 2017.

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



User posted:

Try harder with the straw men, you're not even trolling. What do you think it is?

The real answer is: behavior patterns

No, sorry. I legitimately thought you'd say the root cause is welfare. Can you elaborate about how behavior patterns are the real root cause?

SimonCat
Aug 12, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo


College Slice

frunksock posted:

No, sorry. I legitimately thought you'd say the root cause is welfare. Can you elaborate about how behavior patterns are the real root cause?

Well, not being born to white middle-class parents is a start.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Hazborgufen posted:

I love that the video ends with a drone strike. Seems very fitting.

I honestly can't tell if doing that shows an incredible sense of self awareness or if it instead shows a stunning lack of it.

Not actually a drone strike! That's a video from I think last year of Kurds dropping airstrikes and/or artillery on some ISIS dudes on a hill.

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



SimonCat posted:

Well, not being born to white middle-class parents is a start.

We got to this point via Goatse saying black-on-black crime is due to poverty, then User saying, no, poverty is just another symptom of the real cause, which is "behavior patterns." If you're saying those causal behavior patterns are the result of being raised by poor non-white people, then you've pretty much just closed a loop over the whole thing.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

convenient for them, then, that you're too good to stoop to the level of 'the rabble' and discuss your ideas that you totally understand in terms that won't provoke an instant negative reaction, because the really important thing is the subtext of using the exact same verbage as every other latte liberal trying to browbeat the unwoke on the internet and not the literal substance of racial inequity.

See how you're taking everything personally and thus dismissing it without listening? THAT is what's going on.

User posted:

The real answer is: behavior patterns

Behavior patterns are by definition a symptom.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

User is a very racist and sexist rear end in a top hat.

People, this isn't hard.

User
May 3, 2002

by FactsAreUseless


Nap Ghost

Godholio posted:

Behavior patterns are by definition a symptom.

You need to study up on how the whole cause and effect thing works.

frunksock posted:

No, sorry. I legitimately thought you'd say the root cause is welfare. Can you elaborate about how behavior patterns are the real root cause?

Well LBJ's policy of restricting welfare to homes where no man was present certainly had observable negative consequences for black American men's paternal involvement and family formation in general. Paternal involvement and investment is one example of a behavior pattern that reduces poverty.

User fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Apr 10, 2017

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

I ate too much crab and transformed into this.



mlmp08 posted:

User is a very racist and sexist rear end in a top hat.

People, this isn't hard.

Yeah but if all the white white-knight posters get removed it really brings down the value of the forum.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


User posted:

You need to study up on how the whole cause and effect thing works.


Behavior is shaped by external stimuli.

djdanno13
Apr 20, 2004

Killing Nazi Zombies since June 14 1775



Internet Wizard posted:

You think something is bad here, you should see how bad it is somewhere else!

The point was that it's bad everywhere but it's worse everywhere else and we are the best. If you don't think so please tell me which nation has more minorities that are millionaires than America and has freely elected a minority leader.

Marvin K. Mooney
Jan 2, 2008

poop ship
destroyer


User is a 19th century race scientist, you won't understand him without laudanum and pair of pince-nez glasses

SimonCat
Aug 12, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo


College Slice

djdanno13 posted:

The point was that it's bad everywhere but it's worse everywhere else and we are the best. If you don't think so please tell me which nation has more minorities that are millionaires than America and has freely elected a minority leader.

Israel? Though, I guess Jews aren't a minority there...

Pitch
Jun 16, 2005

しらんけど


Marvin K. Mooney posted:

User is a 19th century race scientist, you won't understand him without laudanum and pair of pince-nez glasses
Those dudes are still around but they have fedoras now and like to call it "human biodiversity theory".

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LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


djdanno13 posted:

The point was that it's bad everywhere but it's worse everywhere else and we are the best. If you don't think so please tell me which nation has more minorities that are millionaires than America and has freely elected a minority leader.

Wait this is sarcasm right?

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