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Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Thanks to The Deadly Hume for providing a fantastic framework to build off from last year

An explanation of the title which leaves only more questions

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle posted:

I know something about football for I played Rugby for the Edinburgh University and soccer with the Hampshire team. I have also seen the best American football. I consider the Australian game is magnificent, and from the spectacular point of view it is probably the best of them all.
The man-handling element in the British game, when the play is fast and the scrums break up, make it an extraordinarily fine game but in the Australian game there is such constant movement that it stands by itself. They have developed several points which are quite new to me. One of them is accurate passing by low drop kicking. I think that could be introduced into the English game with very great advantage, for it seems to be faster than any pass by hand. Another point that struck me was the extraordinary accuracy of the screw kicking—that is to say when a man running past the goal kicks a goal at right angles to his own line. I have never seen anything to touch the accuracy of both the punting and drop kicking.
They made footy great again. The year started with the threat of a fourthorn, and ended with grown men weeping at the sight of Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge giving his premiership medal to injured captain Bob Murphy.
The Western Bulldogs are the reigning premiers.

The Western Bulldogs are the reigning premiers?


The dogs did what no-one saw coming, after bowing out in the first round of the previous finals series, most people saw either gradual improvement or a temporary dip. Given the injuries sustained to key players no one could have blamed them for narrowly missing the finals or making it a short stay in September. What actually happened was probably the greatest premiership story in footy history. The dogs first grand final appearance in 55 years, their first flag in 62 years, the lowest team on the ladder to make the grand final, the only team to win the flag from four years. The only people unhappy with the result on the day could have been Sydney supporters, but having previously held and broken the longest premiership drought in VFL/AFL history even they may have had a soft spot for long suffering dogs fans.

Other notable events:
Former and current Essendon players served a 12 month suspension for doping violations, it needs to be mentioned in the context of the season but let’s not dwell on it when it’s dominated everything for so loving long.
Jarryd Roughead had his cancer re-surface, but has since recovered and seems likely to make a fit return to football.
Hawthorn dumped their top 2 Best and Fairest finishers in a fit of rage at not winning the flag.
West Coast’s Sam Mitchell and Richmond’s Trent Cotchin were awarded brownlow medals after Jobe Watson was stripped of his.
Jack Watts is an honest to god footballer.
Loyal family man and all around good bloke Patrick Dangerfield won the brownlow.
Brad Scott decided the best way to motivate his team for the finals was to tell five of his most experienced players they were getting the boot next year, including the AFL games record holder.

WHAT THE gently caress IS AFL?

Australian rules is a high contact, high action code of football. The AFL is the governing body, and its major competition, the AFL Premiership runs with a home-and-away season from late March through to August, which each of the 18 clubs playing 22 games over 23 rounds. They are ranked according to "premiership points" (4 for a win and 2 for a draw - overtime only applies for finals) and then a "percentage" of points scored over points conceded.

Last year's ladder ended up like this.

The eight best teams contest a finals series over four weeks in September, culminating in the Grand Final, usually in the last Saturday of September but sometimes the first week of October. As of the 2016 season, there is a gap week between the end of the regular season and the finals, this is controversial because reasons.

And the highlights of last year's grand final


All games are broadcast live in Australia, with three each round telecast on Seven which is free-to-air, and the remainder on Foxtel. There's also radio coverage which is very handy if you're going to a game in person. Radio coverage will get you a far better quality of commentary, especially given the retirement of one of the few TV commentators capable of forming complete sentences, :rip: Dennis

Fortunately for overseas fans (and locals with a VPN), AFL has set up a streaming service so you can watch whatever.
WatchAFL generally has a free trial during the pre-season competition, so you can test out your chosen VPN solution before ponying up the cash for a season pass.

I believe certain cable/satellite services also have live coverage on particular channels.


The MCG is pretty damned big, with a capacity of 100,000, and usually fills up for the Grand Final. (And of course tickets are pretty hard to come by for that event - it is Australia's equivalent of the Superbowl or the FA Cup.) Docklands Stadium (usually named after some airline or bank) is also in Melbourne with a capacity of 55,000 and in some ways is a better viewing experience. Likewise, there are stadiums all around the country, games at Subiaco in Perth or Adelaide Oval are usually have sell-out crowds, due to the strong support there.

The bigger contests through the season can attract upwards of 70-80 thousand at the MCG, but during the winter months it's pretty easy to find a game in Melbourne on a whim as general admission (or outer) tickets are readily available for less than AUD25, although if you're visiting and want to see a game you should ask the thread for advice about which ones to see; you might even get someone to go with you.


The size of the oval varies across the competition, for example the MCG is 165m long and 135m wide. Most of the grounds are also used for cricket during the summer (sometimes causing encroachment issues since the AFL would probably like the season to begin earlier in March). Compared to many other professional sports, AFL is played on a loving gigantic field


Scoring is in the form of goals and behinds. There are sets of four upright posts at each end.

Goals, or main eggs, are worth 6 points. Goals can only be scored by kicking the ball between the middle posts, without touching them. The goal does not have to go through on the full but cannot have been touched by any player. After each goal the ball returns to the centre to be bounced up again. This sets it apart from many sports which mandate a swap of possession after a major score, thus it can be easier to get a big run on in AFL.

Behinds, or side eggs, are worth 1 point. These are scored any other time a ball passes between any of the posts (including the outer posts), unless it is a goal. The defending team gets to kick the ball out of the goals to restart play.
Although if they been deemed to have rushed the ball over for a behind deliberately the attacking team gets a free kick at the goal square.

The average score for the 2016 season was 88.1 (so about 13 goals plus the usual number of behinds), the highest score being 177 and the lowest 23. Scoring depends on weather, the relative quality of the teams, voodoo, and how much the commentators jinx things.


Each club has a list of about 46, from which it selects 22 for each game: 18 players starting on the ground, plus 4 on the bench who can be swapped on and off at any time, with the number of interchanges restricted to 80 for the game.

The line-ups are traditionally listed in five rows of three, plus another three followers who "follow" the ball around. That is, three each of full forwards, half forwards, centres, half backs, and full backs, plus three followers, a ruck, a rover, and a ruck-rover.

In modern football, it maybe more accurate to describe each team as having a key forward, a key defender, and the other 32 players follow the ball around. Teams can either zone off their players across the field according to a particular plan or let them play man-to-man.

In this brave new world we see new designations like inside midfield which is the guy who grabs the ball from the middle of the pack and gives it to the outside midfield, who scarpers off like buggery up the field looking to kick it to a lead from a full forward (at least this hasn't changed) but if his marking attempt is punched away by a spoiling defender it may be the job of the small forward to pick up the crumbs (that is, the loose ball) and kick the goal.

Try not to worry about this too much, watch a few games and you'll start to get the hang of it. There are basically forwards, midfields, backs and followers.


A match is contested over four quarters of 20 minutes, with the clock paused at ball stoppages, quarters usually go for about 30-35 minutes, meaning a whole match takes just under 3 hours including quarter time and half time breaks.

The ball can be legally moved in a number of ways:
- by kicking
- by handpassing (the ball is held in one hand and punched with the other with a clenched fist)
- by running with the ball - in this case, the ball needs to be bounced every 15 metres.

Kicks and handballs are referred to as disposals or posessions, or "touches".

Marks are awarded for catching the ball on the full from a kick of over 15m, this allows the player to dispose of the ball without interference. Marking is probably the most identifiable aspect of the sport.
Where a ball is in dispute at a stoppage, the umpire will usually throw the ball up in a "ball up" (the etymology of the term "ball up" is a bit of a mystery), which the ruckmen will contest and attempt to knock it into the path of one of their team mates.

If a player commits an infringement, a free kick is handed to the opposing side which can be passed on via kick or handball. The typical causes are:
- holding the ball (when the player is tackled with the ball after having had ample opportunity to get rid of it) - ANY tackle usually gets the crowd to bellow BALLLLL but only some tackles result in free kicks. Sometimes the tackler fucks up and gives away a free kick themselves.
- high/low tackle (legal tackles must be executed between the knees and shoulders). The AFL are supposedly going to change their interpretation of this rule to discourage the ball carrier creating head contact from an initially legal tackle, but who the gently caress would even know what they're doing.

- holding the man (when a tackler impedes a guy after they've disposed of the ball)

- kicking out of bounds on the full
- deliberate out of bounds
(most cases of the ball going out of bounds will result in the boundary umpire throwing the ball back into play, similar to a ball up)

- throwing the ball (i.e. not punching the ball out of the other hand) - the ball must be handpassed to dispose of the ball when possession has been taken.

If a player is being a total cock the umpire will also impose an extra 50 metre penalty towards goal. Usually this only happens a few times a match.

2017 Rule Changes
Due to their need to justify a laws of the game committee, every year the AFL will change the rules of the game in some way. Here are the latest additions:
High Contact – If a tackle is reasonable, was initially applied legally, and high contact is made as a result of the action of the ball carrier, play on will be called.
Deliberate Rushed Behind – Greater onus on a defending player to keep the ball in play, umpire will consider: whether the defender had prior opportunity to dispose of the ball, their distance from the goal line, the degree of pressure applied to them.
Third man up: Only the nominated ruckmen will be allowed to contest a throw-in or ball-up.


-323192012042385041 or whenever: The Big Bang
1858: Melbourne Football Club formed, ostensibly to keep the cricket club's players fit in winter. Geelong forms a year later after Melbourne get bored with playing with themselves.

1877: The Victorian Football Association (VFA) and SAFA competitions form - the latter is renamed the SANFL in 1907)
1885: The WAFA forms with clubs from around Perth and Fremantle - now the WAFL.
1897: Victorian Football League forms with eight clubs, breaking away from the VFA
1908: Richmond and (Melbourne) University join the VFL
1913: University drops out (they continue to compete in the Victorian Amateur leagues)
1915-1918: A number of clubs go into recess during the "Great War".
1925: Footscray, North Melbourne and Hawthorn join the VFL from the VFA to take the number up to 12
1942-1943: Geelong stands out of the competition due to wartime travel restrictions

Bladabladablad, stuff happened. At some point (1968) the season extended to 22 home-and-away rounds, allowing all 12 clubs to play each other twice.

1981: South Melbourne (aka the Swans) move to Sydney
1987: VFL expands with West Coast Eagles (in Perth) and Brisbane Bears (in Gold Coast)
1989: The VFL attempt a merger between Fitzroy and Footscray, which fails after a community campaign.
1990: The VFL changes its name to the Australian Football League, with the introduction of the Adelaide Crows. The Crows were a joint SANFL side that was quickly organised after Port Adelaide announced they were breaking away from the SANFL to join the VFL in their own right.
1993: Brisbane Bears move up the road to actually start playing in Brisbane.
1995: Fremantle Dockers join. They have lovely purple, white, green and red jumpers. The number of teams is a neat 16.
1996: At the end of the season, Fitzroy, which have struggled for years, is merged with the Brisbane Bears, after another plan to merge with North Melbourne is scuttled by the other clubs because the new club would be too strong. (The new Brisbane Lions win three flags in a row a few short years laters)
Melbourne and Hawthorn also come close to a merger, but this doesn't eventuate.
1997: Port Adelaide finally enter a team in their own right, called the Power as they can't use their SANFL nickname of the Magpies.

Everything is nice and stable for a little while.

2011-2012: The AFL announce new teams for Queensland and NSW to expand the league to 18 clubs; the Gold Coast Suns, which begin competing in 2011, and Greater Western Sydney, who join in 2012. Considered a bit of a punt, since interestin Aussie rules in those two states is fairly muted compared with the rest of the country, but part of the rationale is to bolster the TV deal to have more games of interest for those states.


Tasmania is football mad but is also poor as gently caress, plus its population base is split almost evenly between the north and south coasts so they have to deal with that rivalry. Currently Hawthorn play four of their home games a year at Launceston in the north and North Melbourne play two at Hobart, the state's capital in the south.

Below the AFL national level there are a number of state leagues, the SANFL, WAFL, VFL (which is what the VFA became sometime in the 1990s), the TFL in Tasmania, and the NEAFL which covers NSW, ACT, Queensland and the Northern Territory.

There are also under 18s competitions around the land tied to the above state leagues and the best young players from these nominate for the annual AFL draft in early November.

The third tiers, I guess, is the numerous suburban and country leagues, which go from semi-pro to just a bunch of mates who want to have a kick around and get blotto afterwards.

The idea of the Barassi Line has long been used to demonstrate which areas are considered Australian Football dominated, and which areas are dominated by the Rugby codes. The areas South-West of this line are considered traditional Australian football areas.

Solemn Sloth fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 17, 2017


Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.


This map gives a rough idea of the distribution of clubs. Why are half the clubs in a national league within walking distance of each other?

Schlesische posted:

The only analogy would be if say... New York set up a Football league. Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Minnesota and Seattle eventually form their own leagues out of a sense of state pride (and distance, costs etc.) and they come to be really proud of their players and their teams. Eventually New York, which is the biggest and richest city of the above works out that instead of trying to make its teams better by developing the slowly straining player pool, it can just buy the best players from all those other leagues and make its league the best by far. This decimates the other leagues, and eventually the rise of TV rights and the concept of "nationally televised" means that New York - flush with money and talent - can start putting teams in direct competition with those leagues, most of which throw up the white flag and agree to effectively "buy-in" to the new "National League".
That's how the AFL formed, and it's a clunky analogy, but it does a decent job of explaining how something like half the teams in the Modern AFL come from Victoria and are over 100 years old.

Nickname: Crows
Home colours: Navy, red and gold hoops
First AFL season: 1991
Premierships: 2 - 1997, 1998
2016 finish - 5th - 16-6-0 64pts
2016 finals: Won elimination final against North Melbourne, Lost semi-final against Sydney.
Coach: Don Pyke
Players to watch if they join a Victorian team: Eddie “EDDIEBETTS” Betts, Rory Sloane, Daniel Talia, Josh Jenkins, Charlie Cameron

Adelaide performed above many people’s expectations in 2016, some sort of dip was predicted after losing one of the best players in the game Patrick Dangerfield to homesickness / high treason. The midfield is the big question for the Crows, Rory Sloane put in great work but needs help and after a failed bid for Bryce Gibbs it doesn’t appear they have addressed this in the off season. Even with a shallow midfield the Crows won’t be completely out of many games due to the potency of their forward line which combines traditional power forwards, small forwards and athletic talls.

Brisbane Lions
Nickname: Lions
Home colours: Royal blue yoke on maroon with gold lion.
First AFL season: 1997 (merger of Fitzroy Lions and Brisbane Bears)
Premierships: 3 - 2001, 2002, 2003 (8 as Fitzroy - 1898, 1899, 1904, 1905, 1913, 1916, 1922, 1944)
2016 finish - 17th: 3-19-0 12pts

Coach: Chris Fagan
Players to watch: Dayne Beams, Tom Rockliff, Josh Schache
I don’t loving know

Brisbane’s 2016 season was truly awful. They managed to avoid the wooden spoon by hovering 0.6% above a team with most of its best 22 suspended for the year. Justin Leppitsch threw his team under the bus at multiple press conferences, although the team did the same to him many times during matches. His replacement, Chris Fagan, will look first to bolster the Lions’ defence, as they conceded 500 points more than the next worst team, nearly 4 goals a game. Brisbane have talent on their list, and getting more experience into the younger players and actually getting some of their more mature players onto the park will help, but it’s hard to imagine any other team dropping below them this year, definitely hot favourites for last place. They seem to have largely stemmed the tide of players leaving, the next task is developing them.

Nickname: Blues, very occasionally Bluebags
Home colours: Dark navy blue with white CFC monogram
First VFL season: 1897 - foundation club
Premierships: 16 - 1906, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1915, 1938, 1945, 1947, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1987, 1995
2016 finish - 14th: 7-15-0 28pts
Coach: Brendon Bolton
Players to watch: Bryce Gibbs, Patrick Cripps, Jacob Weitering, Marc Murphy

Carlton started 2016 as many people expected them to: four straight losses. Then something weird happened, they got six wins from the next seven games, losing only to the then undefeated North Melbourne. Carlton were up and about and there were thoughts that Brendan Bolton may be this year’s Luke Beveridge (turns out Luke Beveridge was this year’s Luke Beveridge). The long winter set in with a loss to St Kilda and they managed only one win in the back half of the season, ending Melbourne's faint finals aspirations in round 22. More games into young stars like Cripps and Weitering should help the Blues this year, but it’s hard to see them moving out of the bottom half of the ladder just yet.

Nickname: Magpies, or just "Pies"
Home colours: Black and white stripes
First VFL season: 1897 - foundation club
Premierships: 15 - 1902, 1903, 1910, 1917, 1919, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1935, 1936, 1953, 1958, 1990, 2010
2016 finish: 12th - 9-13-0 36pts

Coach: Nathan Buckley
Players to watch: Scott Pendlebury, Darcy Moore, Adam Treloar
After losing more and more games each season since taking over, Nathan Buckley took the unusual step of putting himself on notice, saying he should be fired if they don’t make the finals this year. Collingwood is one of the teams for whom predictions vary the most. Many people are tipping them to make good on the promise of apparent talent on their list, others think they’re going to fall flat once again. Its doubtful many coaches would have survived as long as Buckley has without the dogged support of his number one fan and club President Eddie McGuire, and somehow after five full seasons in charge the jury seems to still out on whether he can actually coach at all.

Nickname: Bombers, Dons
Home colours: Black with red sash
First VFL season: 1897 - foundation club
Premierships: 16 - 1897, 1901, 1911, 1912, 1923, 1924, 1942, 1946, 1949, 1950, 1962, 1965, 1984, 1985, 1993, 2000
2016 Ladder Position: 18th - 3-19-0 12pts

Coach: John Worsfold
Players to watch: Dyson Heppel, Zach Merrett, Michael Hurley, Joe Daniher, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

A march in support of drug decriminalization

Due to having most of their senior players suspended, some people tipped Essendon to go winless in 2016, forgetting two important things: Just how bad a team would have to be to go winless, and that there is no team so bad that Melbourne can’t lose to it. It’s barely worth making a prediction for Essendon other than they’re not going to finish last or win the flag, anything else is pure speculation due to us having no idea how the two Essendon sides will mesh together after spending a year apart.

Nicknames: Dockers, Freo, the Purples
Home colours: Purple with white chevrons. It's a very respectable and manly purple, though.
First AFL season: 1995
Premierships: none - best finish is 2013 runners-up
2016 ladder position: 16th - 4-18-0 16pts
Coach: Ross Lyon
Players to watch: :swoon: Cow Dude :swoon:, Lachie Neale, Aaron Sandilands, Alex Pearce

A stunning fall from grace for Fremantle, finishing on top of the ladder with 17 wins in 2015 to 16th with 4 wins in 2016. Part of this can be explained by injuries, the two key components of their midfield Nat Fyfe and Aaron Sandilands playing 10 games between them, but a significant part was them just being bad. This season also saw the retirement of club legend Matthew Pavlich who was convinced to see out the season by Ross Lyon after considering an early retirement to make way for developing youth. Freo will be hoping that one of the project key forwards they have picked up can start to fill his role, after failing to attract a big name replacement for Pavlich for half a decade. Fyfe and Sandilands staying healthy should mean the Dockers are at least in contention for a spot towards the bottom of the top 8.

"Cow Dude"?
[quote="”tnimark”" post="”444505961”"]
A friend of mine texted me about Nat Fyfe and it somehow autocorrected to 'Cow Dude' so that's his name now fyi.

And then there's this:

Nickname: Cats, very occasionally the Hoops, historically Pivotonians or even Pivots although everyone will look at you funny if you refer them as that. Home colours: Navy and white hoops
Home ground: Kardinia Park, Geelong (aka Baytec Stadium Shell Stadium Skilled Stadium Simonds Stadium GMHBA Stadium) - also play some home games at the MCG/Docklands
First VFL season: 1897 - foundation club
Premierships: 9 - 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011
2016 ladder: 2nd - 17-5-0 68pts

Coach: Chris Scott
Players to watch: Patrick Dangerfield, Nakia Cockatoo, Daniel Menzel, Tom Hawkins

Turns out one player can make a pretty big difference to a team. Geelong dropped out of the finals in 2015, but returned last year in second place and a significant part of that is due to star recruit Patrick Dangerfield. Dangerfield rocketed from obscurity to win the Brownlow medal and establish a strong claim to being the best player in the league, although his main contender was out injured most of the season. The Cats lost a big chunk of experience at the end of the year, with Jimmy Bartel and Corey Enright retiring, they are legends of the club and replacing them will be difficult as they were still playing good footy to the end. Nakia Cockatoo has shown promise, and Cats fans will be hoping he takes the next step. If Daniel Menzel has put his four knee reconstructions (:stonk:) behind him and gets more continuity he can provide a big boost to their scoring power. Geelong are unlikely to miss finals but don’t be surprised by a small step backwards as they adjust to a post Bartel and Enright world.

Gold Coast
Nickname: Suns
Home colours: Red with gold side trim and a silly logo. The Suns' Club colours also include royal blue and white which are featured on their clash guernseys.
First AFL season: 2011
Premierships: none - best finish was 12th in 2014
2016 ladder: 15th 6-16- 24pts
Coach: Rodney Eade
Players to Watch: Tom Lynch, Gary Ablett, David Swallow

Another disappointing year for the Suns, they have been in the league for six years and never placed in the top half of the ladder. Last year wasn’t entirely their fault as they were plagued by injuries from the get go, so if they can stay healthy there will be some natural improvement there. They lost two of their theoretically best players in Dion Prestia and Jaeger O’Maera, Prestia is definitely a loss, but O’Maera hadn’t played a game in two years so their recent performance won’t change for losing him. Tom Lynch is making a strong case for himself as one of the best key forwards in the game, especially given the quality and quantity of delivery he is often getting. With Peter Wright alongside him they will seriously stretch a number of defences for years to come. It was revealed that Gary Ablett had sought to come home to Geelong during the off season, and it’s likely that this story will dominate much of the Suns narrative for 2017. Similar to Essendon, the Suns were missing their best team for so much of 2016 that it’s hard to place where they will be if they can get continuity, safest bet is probably around the top half of the bottom ten.

Greater Western Sydney (or GWS for short)
Nickname: Giants, while the Orange Crush seems to becoming a thing
Home colours: Orange and charcoal, with a white stylised G.
First AFL season: 2012
Premierships: none - best finish was 4th in 2016
2016 ladder: 4th 16-6-0 64pts
2016 Finals: Beat Sydney in Qualifying Final, Lost to Western Bulldogs in Preliminary Final
Coach: Leon Cameron
Players to watch: Jeremy Cameron (no relation), Phil Davis, Stephen Coniglio, Heath Shaw

The Giants looked set to make their finals debut half-way through 2015 before an injury to their ruck and least replaceable player, Shane Mumford, saw them stumble in the back half. In 2016 they made up for lost time though, storming into 4th place and finding themselves one kick short of the Grand Final. GWS will enter season 2017 as on average one of the most experienced and oldest teams, but nearly all of that comes from a huge chunk of players in the mid-20s sweet spot. If they can keep the group together under the salary cap they are going to be in the premiership equation consistently for the next 6+ years. Anything less than making the grand final would be seen as a disappointing finish given their potential.

Solemn Sloth fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 18, 2017

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.


Nicknames: Hawks - historically Mayblooms, haters have all sorts of highly creative names like Poos and Wees but gently caress'em.
Home colours: Brown and gold stripes.
First AFL season: 1925
Premierships: 13 - 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008, 2013, 2014, 2015
2016 ladder: 3rd 17-5-0 68pts
2016 Finals: Lost Qualifying Final to Geelong, Lost Semi Final to Western Bulldogs

Coach: Alastair Clarkson
Players to watch: Cyril Rioli, Luke Hodge (particularly if you’re driving home), Jarryd Roughead, Liam Shiels

Hawthorn had won three premierships in a row leading into 2016, and people despaired that it was going to be another year of the same old poo poo. Hawthorn play football that is good to watch, they are an undeniably talented team and there is a huge amount to admire them for, but not many people wanted to see the streak continue especially given the gigantic army of bandwagon supporters which had crawled out from under a rock.
Hawthorn, more than any other current team, put everything into winning flags. They added mature players when they were still in the premiership window, but having bowed out in the 2016 final series recognised they needed to change something up or decline further. They traded out two champions of the club’s current era, Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis, who finished 1st and 2nd in the club’s best and fairest. They have also taken a gamble by picking up Jaeger O’Maera, a young midfielder with a lot of promise but who hasn’t played a game in two years due to injury at the Suns. If JOM comes in firing, and Jarryd Roughead returns in good form from his battle with cancer, the Hawks could be right back at the top. If not, it’s possible that they’d fall to somewhere around 7th-10th.

Nicknames: Demons, Dees, very occasionally called the Redlegs.
Home colours: Navy with red vee yoke
First VFL season: 1897 - foundation club
Premierships: 10 - 1900, 1926, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1948, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1960, 1964
2016 Ladder: 11th - 10-12-0 40pts

Coach: Simon Goodwin
Players to watch: Max Gawn, Jesse Hogan, Jack Viney, Jack Watts

2016 was very much a season of two steps forward, one step back for the Demons. They played with the youngest team across the league more rounds than not so some inconsistency may be expected, but they would be bitterly disappointed by bad losses to Essendon in Round 2 and Carlton when finals were still in play, as well as an uncompetitive effort to finish off the year against Geelong. They have a reasonably favourable fixture for next year, but cannot rely on natural improvement alone to make finals as there is a serious pack forming for the bottom of the 8. They play two matches against St Kilda who will likely be competing for a similar position on the ladder, but the Saints have won the last 300 matches between the two clubs so there is no reason to think something different would happen this year. Add that to having to transition to a new coach and my guess is they’ll just miss out on finals.
Having gone heavily into the draft for a number of years (over half a decade now), Melbourne will now add experienced hands to their list for 2017 in Jordan Lewis from the Hawks, and the Essendon pair Michael Hibberd and Jake Melksham.

North Melbourne
Nicknames: Kangaroos, usually just Roos; Shinboners
Home colours: White and royal blue stripes
First VFL season: 1925
Premierships: 4 - 1975, 1977, 1996, 1999
2016 Ladder: 8th - 12-10-0 48pts
Finals: Lost Elimination Final to Adelaide

Coach: Brad "Bad" Scott

Players to watch: Todd Goldstein, Ben Brown, Majak Daw

North Melbourne towards the end of 2016 were like a car teetering on the edge of a cliff. They had continually topped up their list with more and more mature age recruits since Free Agency began. Then on the eve of finals, their coach Brad Scott decided to give the car an extra push, telling five of his most senior players they would not be required next year, including AFL games record holder Brent Harvey. To everyone’s surprise, this didn’t work as a motivational tactic and they lost in Week 1 by ten goals. The car is currently in freefall and now all that remains to be seen is if it will hit anything on the way down to slow their fall.

Port Adelaide
Nickname: Power, which is dumb, so they usually get called Port, which annoys Port fans for some reason. It's not too late to find a better name!
Home colours: Black with teal and white vees
First AFL season: 1997
Premierships: 1 - 2004
2016 Ladder: 10th 10-12-0 40pts
Coach: Ken Hinkley
Players to watch: Chad Wingard, Robbie Gray, Ollie Wines

It’s appearing more and more likely that Port’s breakout 2014 season was an aberration as they have failed to make the finals in the two years since. Adding Patrick Ryder back into the squad will be a bonus as the ruck was their weakest position during 2016, but there are still pretty big holes in their defence, and they lack a dominant key forward. The club itself however seemingly believes in their current playing group, without much action at the trade table it will be hoping that natural improvement can carry them up the ladder. Port will play Gold Coast in the first AFL match for premiership points in China during 2017, the Power will hope they can attract a new supporter base given what happened the last time they went through a lean period on-field.


Nickname: Tigers
Home colours: Black with yellow sash
First VFL season: 1908
Premierships: 1 - 1920, 1921, 1932, 1934, 1943, 1967, 1969, 1973, 1974, 1980
2015 Ladder: 13th 8-14-0 32pts
Coach: Damien Hardwick
Players to watch: Alex Rance, Jack Riewoldt, Dustin Martin, Dion Prestia

Richmond fans are hard to fathom, each year they seem utterly convinced the promised land is imminent no matter the evidence to the contrary. This means the inevitable disappointment is all the more entertaining to watch from the outside. Damian Hardwick has had enough to build his own team and be judged on it, and the word I would most use to describe them are shallow. Too often when their big names failed to fire the entire team went missing. The Tigers have added two promising players in Josh Caddy and Dion Prestia, but they have lost ruck/forward Tyrone Vickery and more importantly Brett Deledio. In the past two seasons Richmond has gone 20-9 when Deledio was in the side, but 3-12 when he was missing. Maybe they can return to finals this year, and maybe even win one, but I wouldn’t bet my microwave on it.

St Kilda
Nickname: Saints
Home colours: Red, white and black columns on front, black on rear.
First VFL season: 1897 - foundation club
Premierships: 1 - 1966
2016 Ladder: 9th 12-10-0 48pts
Coach: Alan Richardson
Players to watch: Jack Billings, Jack Lonie, Jack Newnes, Jack Sinclair, Jack Steele, Jack Steven, Jack Daniels

Having missed the finals on percentage in 2016, the Saints are positioned as the team most likely to move into the top 8. They have an exciting young list: A solid backline strengthened by former Bomber Jake Carlisle moving into the team after serving his doping suspension, a dangerous forward line assembled from the draft and hand me downs, and a serviceable midfield although one probably in need of a star to top it off. The Saints have spent some time down the bottom of the ladder in a traditional rebuild and it looks like it should start paying off this year.

Nickname: Swans, Bloods
Home colours: White with red yoke incorporating Sydney Opera House silhouette.
First VFL season: 1897 - foundation club (as South Melbourne)
Premierships: 5 - 1909, 1918, 1933, 2005, 2012
2016 Ladder: 1st 17-5-0 68pts
2016 Finals: Lost Qualifying Final to GWS, Beat Adelaide in Semi Final, Beat Geelong in Preliminary Final, Lost Grand Final to Bulldogs

Coach: John Longmire
Players to Watch: Lance "Buddy" Franklin, Josh Kennedy, Luke Parker, Isaac Heeney

Sydney finished the regular season on top of the ladder, and were eventual runners up losing the grand final to the Bulldogs. Sydney really don’t do the whole ‘bad’ thing, having made finals 13 of the past 14 years including two premierships, and they appear ready for more sustained success with some serious homegrown talent emerging from the academy system.

West Coast
Nickname: Eagles
Home colours: Navy with gold wingtips and eagle logo.
First VFL season: 1987
Premierships: 3 - 1992, 1994, 2006
2016 Ladder: 6th 16-6-0 64pts
2016 Finals: Lost Elimination Final to Western Bulldogs

Coach: Adam Simpson
Players to watch: Nic Natanui, Matt Priddis, Josh Kennedy, Jeremy McGovern

West Coast had a pretty inconsistent year after being runners up in 2015. In the off-season they added Sam Mitchell and his class will help their midfield. Nic Natanui, West Coast’s ruck and one of their most important players, underwent surgery on his ACL late in the 2016 season so the biggest challenge will be attempting to cover for him until he returns. They’ve got a decent draw and one of the game’s best key forwards in Josh Kennedy, so assuming their midfield functions reasonably without ruck dominance they will do well.

Western Bulldogs - actually, it's Footscray
Nickname: Bulldogs (duh), Doggies, occasionally Scraggers.
Home colours: Royal blue with red and white bands
First VFL season: 1925
Premierships: 2 – 1954, 2016
2016 Ladder: 7th 15-7-0 60 pts
2016 Finals: Beat West Coast in Elimination Final, Beat Hawthorn in Semi Final, Beat GWS in Preliminary Final, Beat Sydney in Grand Final

Coach: Luke Beveridge
Players to watch: Marcus Bontempelli, Robert Murphy, Jake Stringer, Tom Boyd

The Doggies were the breakout act of the year, and the feelgood moment at that; in 2014 the senior team of the Footscray Football Club Ltd (calling them the Westerns is a bit too :cowboy: for me) sort of pottered around in the rebuilding zone and most people probably thought they wouldn't be making finals in 2015, but the motley crew lead by Bob Murphy stuck it right up them, at least until the Elimination Final. Even that was pretty entertaining, with the Doggies going goal for goal with Adelaide with the Crows being just a neck ahead at the final siren. Can they back it up for another go this season? I think it would be foolish to write them off. Possibly a couple of key players off being consistent final four material yet, and they could dip out again. They have picked up Matt Suckling as a FA from the Hawks, who is an excellent raking kick from defence. Whatever "raking" means in this context...

And just quietly, if you're dipping your toe into watching AFL and need a team to follow this year, you could do worse than follow these guys.

The Doggies were the breakout act of the year, and the feelgood moment at that. After making the finals ahead of schedule in 2015, they shocked the league by winning their first premiership in over sixty years. The dogs play a high paced style of football, emphasising a lot of players running through their midfield, good rebound off the backline, and multiple targets in the forward line. Tom Boyd was much maligned due to how much he was paid without having shown much more than potential, but the finals series was a real coming of age for him, and many of the Dogs other young stars. Given the youth of much of their side, it’s hard to see the dogs not featuring in many finals to come.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

AFL WOMEN’S :biotruths:

The only people the AFL pay less than female footballers are graphic designers

In 2017, the AFL will launch a national women’s league, the first of its kind. Eight clubs have been given licenses to compete in the inaugural season, four Victorian teams and one each from South Australia, Western Australia, New South Wales and Queensland. The idea of a women’s league has been pushed for primarily by Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs (at an AFL level, there has been considerable efforts outside the league itself) through a series of exhibition matches.

The AFL initially significantly lowballed pay and conditions for women, but have since afforded such exorbitant luxuries as health cover and income protection for injuries sustained while playing. An entire women’s squad of 27 will receive around $320,000 over a 22 week contract, while the average male player receives around $300,000 per year.

The season will consist of a 7 week round robin, with each team playing each other team once, at the end of which the two top ranked teams will play in the grand final during Round 1 of the men’s season.

Lists consist of marquee players, priority selections, rookies, draftees and free agents. Each club signed two marquee players, and then were enabled to sign a number of priority selections. Carlton, Collingwood, Fremantle, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs were able to sign one player with an existing connection to their club as a priority selection. Adelaide and Brisbane were allowed two priority selections, while Greater Western Sydney were allowed four. Due to injuries to their marquee players, Fremantle and GWS were permitted one additional priority selection each.

In order to help attract talent from other sports, each club was then able to sign two rookies, which must be players either new to football or who have not played in a registered competition in the last three years.

A draft was then held, with order determined randomly. The draft was held in snake format, eg. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-1. Following the draft, clubs were allowed to sign two free agents who had not been selected in the draft.

Women’s matches will be played with reduced numbers on field (16 instead of 18), and 6 on the bench (4 in the men’s game). A slightly smaller ball is used than in the men’s game, with quarters reduced to 15 minutes in length and increased breaks between them, partly due to the fact that the competition is held during summer rather than from autumn-spring.

club write-ups taken from Chyloe Kurdas of ESPN
Player information I’ve collated from a whole bunch of different sources, players with age listed normally is based on their date of birth and age is as of Round 1 of the 2017 AFLW season, players with an asterisk I haven’t found a date of birth so may be out a year depending on when their birthday falls in the year.

Adelaide, balancing speed and endurance, expect to be a contender at every contest. But the Crows boast few players with exhibition match experience, making them vulnerable under expected AFLW pressure. The injection of Western Australian stars Chelsea Randall and Kellie Gibson will bolster their homegrown talents. Adelaide's exciting youngsters such as Ebony Marinoff and emerging ruck Sarah Allan are promising but will need support if the team is have a chance at the flag.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
1	Abbey Holmes		FWD		26	Waratah			NT	103	
2	Kellie Gibson		FWD		20	Swan Districts		WA	MARQUEE		Rugby
3	Angela Foley		MID		28	Waratah			NT	PRIORITY	
4	Georgia Bevan		MID		23	Morphetville Park	SA	42		Softball
5	Jenna McCormick		MID		22	Coorparoo		QLD	23		Soccer
6	Talia Radan		DEF		28	Belconnen		ACT	58	
7	Rachael Killian		FWD		22	West Adelaide		SA	71		Tennis
8	Sally Riley		UTILITY		26	Tracey Village		NT	39		Netball
9	Deni Varnhagen		MID		24	Morphetville Park	SA	26		Soccer
10	Ebony Marinoff		MID		19	Morphetville Park	SA	7	
11	Rhiannon Metcalfe	RUCK		25	Gungahlin Jets		ACT	74	
12	Jasmine Anderson	MID		25	Darwin Buffaloes	NT	ROOKIE		Soccer
13	Erin Phillips		UTILITY		31	N/A				ROOKIE		Basketball
14	Stevie-Lee Thompson	MID		24	Wanderers		NT	106		Touch
15	Tayla Thorn		UTILITY		18	St Mary's		NT	90	
16	Sophie Armstead		MID/DEF		22	Wanderers		NT	55		Rugby
17	Jessica Sedunary	MID		25	Morphetville Park	SA	119	
18	Monique Hollick		MID		18	Uni of NSW		NSW	136		Running
19	Heather Anderson	DEF		22	Waratah			NT	10	
21	Lauren O'Shea		D/RUCK		32	Waratah			NT	FREE AGENT	Netball, Basketball, Rowing, Running
22	Courtney Cramey		MID		28	Morphetville Park	SA	PRIORITY	
23	Justine Mules		MID		22	Morphetville Park	SA	133	
26	Chelsea Randall		FWD		25	Swan Districts		WA	MARQUEE	
28	Sarah Perkins		KPF		23	Eastern Devils		Vic	FREE AGENT	
31	Dayna Cox		MID		23	Morphetville Park	SA	FREE AGENT	
33	Anne Hatchard		DEF		18	Morphetville Park	SA	87	
39	Sarah Allan		KPP		19	Salisbury		SA	122

A Centre-Half Forward from WA, Chelsea Randall has been playing against women since the age of 14 due to a lack of available junior pathways. She collected Best on Ground in her second outing for Melbourne in the exhibition games with a hard hitting and pack crashing display.

With few players older than 25, fearless forward Tayla Harris, agile small Shaleise Law, versatile tall Tahlia Randall and reliable defender Emily Bates will form Brisbane's nucleus for many years. Imports Katelyn Ashmore (Victoria) and Jess Wueschtner (WA) add speed and skill, and Sabrina Frederick Traub (WA) will stretch opposition defences in size and strength. Victorian defender Nicole Hildebrand might be the star pick with her courageous ball-winning ability. The performances of older Queensland stateswomen such as Emma Zielke and Leah Kaslar will be vital if the Lions are to be in the premiership hunt.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
1	Emily Bates		MID/HB		23*	Yeronga South Brisbane	QLD	2	
2	Shaleise Law		SML FWD		18*	Zillmere Eagles		QLD	95	
3	Breanna Koenen		HB/MID		21*	Uni. of Queensland	QLD	50	
4	Sharni Webb		KPP		25*	Uni. of Queensland	QLD	111	
5	Samantha Virgo		FWD/SML D	29*	Yeronga South Brisbane	QLD	66	
6	Megan Hunt		HF/MID		20*	Uni. of Queensland	QLD	63	
7	Tayla Harris		KPF		19*	Zillmere		QLD	MARQUEE	
8	Emma Zielke		MID/FWD		28*	Uni. of Queensland	QLD	PRIORITY	
9	Kate McCarthy		MID		23*	Yeronga South Brisbane	QLD	82		Touch
10	Kaitlyn Ashmore		WING/HB		25*	Melbourne University	VIC	PRIORITY	Javelin
11	Leah Kaslar		KPD/RUCK	31*	Coolangatta Tweed	QLD	31		Basketball
12	Kate Deegan		DEF			Coorparoo		QLD	ROOKIE		Soccer
13	Kate Lutkins		UTILITY		28*	Wilston Grange		QLD	79		Futsal
14	Sabrina Frederick-Traub	KPF		20*	South Fremantle		WA	MARQUEE		Soccer
15	Jade Ransfield		MED FWD		19*	Yeronga South Brisbane	QLD	129	
16	Tahlia Randall		UTILITY		18*	Wilston Grange		QLD	15	
17	Jamie Stanton		MID		20*	Coolangatta Tweed	QLD	33*		Soccer
18	Alexandra Anderson	INSIDE MID	22*	Zillmere Eagles		QLD	47	
19	Selina Goodman		WING/HB		26*	Coolangatta Tweed	QLD	98	
20	Shannon Campbell	MED DEF		20*	Wilston Grange		QLD	FREE AGENT	Soccer
21	Caitlin Collins		MED DEF		21*	Yeronga			QLD	FREE AGENT	
22	Nicole Hildebrand	MED DEF		22*	Melbourne University	VIC	18	
23	Jessica Wuetschner	SML FWD/MID	24*	East Fremantle		WA	34	
24	Nikki Wallace		INS MID/SML FWD	22*	Coolangatta Tweed	QLD	114	
25	Brittany Gibson		MID/FWD		24*	Burnie Dockers		TAS	141	
26	Delissa Kimmince	DEF		28	Yeronga South Brisbane	QLD	ROOKIE		Cricket
27	Jordan Membrey		UTILITY		20*	Coolangatta		QLD	FREE AGENT	

Tayla Harris is an athletic, young, tall forward signed to the Brisbane Lions as their first marquee player. Tayla debuted for Melbourne in exhibition games at the age of 17, has a great set of hands and a literally textbook kicking style. Her combination of talent and looks ensures she will be one of the faces of women’s football going forward.

There is no pattern to Carlton's list other than they've got depth everywhere and have a little of everything needed to cope with any situation. Darcy Vescio and Brianna Davey, Australia's most versatile players, will smash you on the scoreboard then intercept across half back on the next play. And the rest of the squad? Talls. Smalls. Insiders. Outsiders. Attackers. Shut down players. Carlton will be able to cover whatever their rivals throw at them, making them a likely contender for the AFLW premiership.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
1	Brianna Davey		DEF/MID		22	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	MARQUEE		Soccer
2	Katie Loynes		MID		30	Diamond Creek		VIC	110	
3	Darcy Vescio		FWD		23	Darebin Falcons		VIC	MARQUEE	
4	Madeline Keryk		MID		21	Melbourne University	VIC	115	
5	Kate Gillespie-Jones	UTILITY		25	Seaford Tigerettes	VIC	14	
6	Gabriella Pound		FWD		22	Melbourne University	VIC	30	
7	Sarah Last		DEF		20	Bendigo			VIC	94		Netball, Basketball
8	Kate Darby		FWD/DEF		26	N/A			VIC	126		Tennis, Basketball, Cricket
9	Rebecca Privitelli	DEF		22	Eastern Devils		VIC	142	
10	Sarah Hosking		MID		21	Seaford			VIC	19		Netball
11	Jessica Hosking		MID		21	Seaford			VIC	78	
12	Lauren Brazzale		MID		23	Diamond Creek		VIC	62	
13	Lauren Arnell		MID		29	Darebin Falcons		VIC	PRIORITY	Basketball
14	Laura Attard		DEF		30	Diamond Creek		VIC	140	
15	Nat Exon		MID		24	Darebin Falcons		VIC	ROOKIE		Soccer, Running
16	Breann Moody		RUCK		19	Cranbourne		VIC	67	
18	Tilly Lucas-Rodd	MID		20	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	99	
22	Bella Ayre		FWD		18	Bendigo Thunder		VIC	51	
23	Jessica Kennedy		MID		26	Bendigo Thunder		VIC	FREE AGENT	
25	Kate Shierlaw		RUCK/FWD	27	Wimbledon Hawks		UK	ROOKIE		Basketball, Javelin
26	Shae Audley		MID		28	Diamond Creek		VIC	46	
27	Alison Brown		MID		19	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	FREE AGENT	
30	Alison Downie		RUCK		32	Diamond Creek		VIC	129	
31	Danielle Hardiman	DEF		22	Cranbourne		VIC	35	
32	Natalie Plane		MID		20	Seaford			VIC	83		Cricket
33	Hayley Trevean		FWD		28	Bendigo Thunder		VIC	FREE AGENT	
35	Bianca Jakobsson	FWD		23	Cranbourne		VIC	3

Another player from the Darebin Falcons Footy Factory (tm), Darcy Vescio is a full forward with great hands, a good leap, and dangerous goal sense. She has represented the Bulldogs in exhibition games before being signed by the Blues, and has used her graphic design background to help design the Carlton women's guernsey.

Collingwood boast five of AFLW's most dangerous forwards - Moana Hope, Sarah D'Arcy, Jessica Cameron, Jasmine Garner and Lauren Tesorerio, who can debilitate the best defender. Their defence runs just as deep, with none better than Nicola Stevens, AFLW's best defensive pressure kick and a rare contested mark. Defenders Steph Chiocci and Penny Cula Reid's execution will hurt teams on the rebound. The Pies' shallow inside midfield depth will see them scrap at stoppages but their outside runners are quality and ruck Emma King is brilliant. If offence wins games and defence wins championships, then Collingwood could be two thirds of their way to the premiership.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
1	Caitlyn Edwards		HB		20*	East Fremantle		WA	43	
2	Alicia Eva		HF/MID		25*	Melbourne University	VIC	54	
3	Penny Cula-Reid		DEF		28*	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	102	
4	Sarah D'Arcy		HF		25*	Eastern Devils		VIC	22	
5	Emma Grant		UTILITY		27*	Bendigo			VIC	91		Netball
6	Christina Bernardi	WING/HF		26*	Diamond Creek		VIC	132	
7	Lauren Tesoriero	MID/HF		29*	Eastern Devils		VIC	107	
8	Brittany Bonnici	MID		19*	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	27	
9	Melissa Kuys		MID		29*	Knox			VIC	118	
10	Kendra Heil		FWD/MID		28*	Eastern Devils		VIC	FREE AGENT	Rugby
11	Helen Roden		FWD		30*	VU Western Spurs	VIC	ROOKIE		Basketball
12	Stacey Livingstone	KD		28*	Port Melbourne Colts	VIC	70	
17	Stephanie Chiocci	HB		27*	Diamond Creek		VIC	11	
18	Ruby Schleicher		UTILITY		18*	East Fremantle		WA	137		Basketball
19	Louise Wotton		RUCK		32*	Eastern Devils		VIC	FREE AGENT	Triathlon
20	Cecilia McIntosh	DEF		37*	Melbourne University	VIC	123		Javelin, Bobsled
21	Nicola Stevens		KD		23*	Melbourne University	VIC	6	
22	Sophie Casey		HF			Eastern Devils		VIC	FREE AGENT	
23	Moana Hope		KF		28	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	MARQUEE	
24	Kate Sheahan				34*	N/A				ROOKIE		Tennis
25	Meg Hutchins		DEF		31*	Eastern Devils		VIC	PRIORITY	Rowing
26	Tara Morgan		KD		27*	South Fremantle		WA	144	
27	Jessica Cameron		FWD		27*	Diamond Creek		VIC	75		Cricket
33	Bree White		MID		24*	VU Western Spurs	VIC	38	
38	Amelia Barden		MID		23*	Diamond Valley		VIC	59	
43	Jasmine Gardner		KF		22*	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	86	
60	Emma King		RUCK		22*	Coastal Titans		WA	MARQUEE

Moana Hope is every bit the prototype full forward, strong hands, willing to hurt any defenders who are guarding space in front of her, and a good kick. She left the game for a number of years, but the challenge of a national league was too tempting to resist. She is one of thirteen children, and is a full-time carer for a disabled younger sister. Her most recent game was a dominant performance for the Western Bulldogs in their first Hampson-Hardeman Cup win against Melbourne. She was signed by Collingwood as their first marquee player.

If stemming the talent flow to other states was Fremantle's first challenge, enticing coach Michelle Cowan from the Demons was their first win. The Dockers will be dangerous by foot through Kara Donnellan and the sublime Kirby Bentley, who fans will adore. Their young defence featuring Ebony Antonio and Hayley Miller is elite, but losing key forwards interstate has left them vulnerable. Goal kicker Amy Lavell's return to the game is a positive while forward Kira Phillips' rare talent will need consistency. Balancing elite athleticism and skill make Fremantle one of the competition's most hunted teams.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
1	Ashley Sharp		HF/WING		19	Swan Districts		WA	20	
2	Kiara Bowers		MID		25	Coastal Titans		WA	MARQUEE
3	Brianna Green		MID		20	East Fremantle		WA	13
4	Lara Filocamo		MID		26	Coastal Titans		WA	29	
5	Tayla Bresland		KPD		20	Peel Thunderbirds	WA	52	
6	Tiah Haynes		MID/HB		23	Coastal Titans		WA	36	
7	Amy Lavell		FWD		29	Coastal Titans		WA	61
8	Taryn Priestly		MID		27	Swan Districts		WA	FREE AGENT	Basketball
9	Taylah Angel		INS MID		25	Swan Districts		WA	93	
10	Stacey Barr		HF		24	Swan Districts		WA	68		Basketball
11	Tarni Golisano		HB		20	Coastal Titans		WA	Free Agent	
12	Ebony Antonio		DEF		26	Swan Districts		WA	PRIORITY
13	Kira Phillips		KPF		21	Peel Thunderbirds	WA	45	
14	Akec Makur Chuot	RUCK/DEF	24	Swan Districts		WA	139	
15	Kara Donnellan		MID		24	Swan Districts		WA	MARQUEE	
16	Demi Okely		MID/SML FWD	19	Peel Thunderbirds	WA	125
17	Dana Hooker		MID		26	Coastal Titans		WA	130	
18	Belinda Smith		HB		21	East Fremantle		WA	100
19	Hayley Miller		MID/HB		21	Coastal Titans		WA	4
20	Stephanie Cain		MID/HB		20	Swan Districts		WA	109		Soccer
21	Emily Bonser		MID/HB		21	Swan Districts		WA	FREE AGENT	
22	Gabby O'Sullivan	MID		22	East Fremantle		WA	ROOKIE		Basketball
23	Kirby Bentley		MID		30	Swan Districts		WA	PRIORITY
24	Melissa Caulfield	FWD/MID		28	East Fremantle		WA	77		
25	Kelly Clinch		RUCK/DEF	33	Coastal Titans		WA	116	
27	Gemma Houghton		HB		23	N/A				FREE AGENT	Basketball
32	Kim Mickle		FWD		32	N/A				ROOKIE		Javelin, Bobsled
33	Cassie Davidson		MID/HBF		20	East Fremantle		WA	84	

Kara Donnellan was given the nickname "Juddy" by Deb Lee, one of the giants of women's football, and it's not hard to see why. An explosive outside midfielder who can score a goal, she has played representative footy six times, three for Victoria and three for WA.

Greater Western Sydney plugged their experience gap by recruiting nine interstate players. Emma Swanson (WA) and Jessica Dal Pos (Victoria) will support midfielders Nicola Barr and Maddie Collier. Victorians Phoebe McWilliams and Louise Stephenson will add much-needed height and forward strength. The Giants harvested the ample junior NSW talent now flowing upwards. Erin McKinnon, 18 in December and the AFLW's youngest player, will shoulder the Giants' ruck work. Forward Kate Stanton, 18, will also impress. The Giants need their local senior talent to stand up if they are going to be in the mix.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
	Aimee Schmidt		FWD/RUCK	23*	Coastal Titans		WA	17	
	Alex Saundry		KPD		25*	Melbourne University	VIC	FREE AGENT	
	Alex Williams		KPD		24*	East Fremantle		WA	PRIORITY	
	Amanda Farrugia		UTILITY		31*	Maquarie U. Warriors	NSW	64	
	Ashleigh Guest		UTILITY		26*	VU Western Spurs	VIC	16	
	Britt Tully		INS MID		23*	Gungahlin Jets	ACT	80	
	Clare Lawton		UTILITY		22*	Australian Def. Force	NSW	97	
	Codie Briggs					Newtown Breakaways	NSW	FREE AGENT	
	Ella Ross		INS MID		24*	Quenbeayan Tigers	ACT	112	
	Ellie Brush				28	N/A				ROOKIE		Soccer
	Emma Swanson				22*	East Fremantle		WA	MARQUEE	
	Erin McKinnon		RUCK		18	Sydney University	NSW	48	
	Hannah Wallett		FWD		26	Belconnen Magpies	ACT	FREE AGENT	
	Isabella Rudolph	FWD		21*	Sydney U. Bombers	NSW	FREE AGENT	
	Jacinda Barclay		UTILITY		25*	UNSW-ES Stingrays	NSW	65		Gridiron, Baseball
	Jessica Bibby				37	N/A				ROOKIE		Basketball
	Jessica Dal Pos		UTILITY		23	Darebin Falcons	Vic		PRIORITY	
	Kate Stanton		FWD		18*	Wollongong Saints	NSW	33	
	Kirsty De Pellegrini	KPD		26*	Southern Power		NSW	81	
	Louise Stephenson	RUCK/FWD	21*	Melbourne University	VIC	PRIORITY	
	Maddy Collier				21*	UNSW-ES Stingrays	NSW	PRIORITY	
	Mai Nguyen		HB/MID		26*	UNSW-ES Stingrays	NSW	49	
	Nicola Barr		MID		20*	Sydney U. Bombers	NSW	1	
	Phoebe McWilliams	KPP		31	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	PRIORITY	
	Rebecca Beeson		HF		19*	UNSW-ES Stingrays	NSW	32	
	Renee Forth				30*	Coastal Titans		WA	MARQUEE
	Renee Tomkins		KPD		30*	Penrith Ramettes	NSW	96		Soccer,Futsal
	Stephanie Walker	MID/SML FWD	32*	Sydney U. Bombers	NSW	113	

A native West Australian, Emma Swanson is a tall midfielder with good strength and leap, which allows her to transition between half-forward and the midfield to frustrate opposing coaches.

Pre-signing the experienced Daisy Pearce, Karen Paxman, Elise O'Dea and Melissa Hickey bode well for Melbourne. On draft day they deviated from experience however, recruiting 18 players who have played no more than one year of VFL football. All-Australian 18-year-olds Deanna Berry, Katherine Smith, Lily Mithen, and their junior state team peer, Jasmine Grierson, will be stars of the future, as will Jess Anderson. But have Melbourne gone too young, too soon? The Demons' coach, former TAC Cup premiership coach Michael Stinear, whose ability to get immediate results with young players is revered, may be the key ingredient to their AFLW success.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
2	Meg Downie		DEF		28	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	FREE AGENT	
3	Emma Humphries		MID		21	Burnie Dockers		TAS	57	
4	Karen Paxman		HB		28	Darebin Falcons		VIC	PRIORITY	
5	Elise O'Dea		MID		25	Darebin Falcons		VIC	8	
6	Daisy Pearce		MID		28	Darebin Falcons		VIC	MARQUEE	
7	Deanna Berry		DEF		18	Montmorency/Melb. U.	VIC	9	
8	Sarah Lampard		MID		19	VU Western Spurs	VIC	134	
9	Alyssa Mifsud		MID/FWD		22	VU Western Spurs	VIC	40		Basketball
10	Sarah Jolly		FWD/MID		25	Gippsland Galaxy	VIC	145	
11	Laura Duryea		DEF/RUCK	33	Diamond Creek		VIC	FREE AGENT	
12	Shelley Scott		UTILITY		28	VU Western Spurs	VIC	41		Netball
13	Katherine Smith		DEF		19	Blackburn/E. Devils	VIC	56	
14	Lily Mithen		UTILITY		18	North Geelong		VIC	73	
15	Brooke Patterson	MID/DEF		27	Darebin Falcons		VIC	104	
15	Lauren Pearce		RUCK/KPP	24	Darebin Falcons		VIC	25		Basketball
16	Aliesha Newman				21	N/A				FREE AGENT	Soccer/Athletics
18	Melissa Hickey		DEF		32	Darebin Falcons		VIC	MARQUEE	
19	Jasmine Grierson			18	Cranbourne		VIC	135	
20	Pepa Randall		MID		20	Eastern Devils		VIC	121		Athletics
21	Harriet Cordner				24	N/A				ROOKIE		Athletics, Soccer
23	Stephanie De Bortoli	DEF		23	Diamond Creek		VIC	72	
25	Madeline Boyd		RUCK/KPP	23	North Geelong Magpies	VIC	120	
28	Jessica Anderson	FWD		19	Melbourne University	VIC	105	
30	Richelle Cranston	UTILITY		27	Geelong Magpies		VIC	24		Gridiron
35	Cat Phillips		CHF/WING	25	Melbourne University	VIC	ROOKIE		Ultimate Frisbee
36	Ainslie Kemp		FWD		19	VU Western Spurs	VIC	88	
44	Mia-Rae Clifford	DEF		30	St Kilda Sharks		VIC	89	

Daisy Pearce is widely regarded as one of the best women footballers in the country, and through her role captaining the Melbourne Football Club has been the face of women’s football during the push for a league. She’s a hardnosed mid on the field and a tireless and charming ambassador off it. If people know one female footballer, it’s likely going to be Daisy.

The Western Bulldogs might be a premiership contender due to their long list of midfielders. With stoppages the critical feature of coach Paul Groves' success, it was no surprise they made emerging midfielder Jamie Lambert their first draft pick. Add hard-hitting Hayley Wildes and Hannah Scott to elite runners, Ellie Blackburn and Emma Kearney, and the Dogs should own the inside football. Katie Brennan will play a greater running role than her previous forward days too, while the recruitment of four genuine rucks in Tiarna Ernst, Lauren Spark, Courtney Clarkson and Aasta O'Connor will well serve Groves' game plan.
#	Name			Position	Age	Former Club			Draft #		Other Sports
1	Brooke Lochland		INS MID		25	Melbourne University	VIC	53		Speed Skating
2	Ellie Blackburn		INS MID		22	Melbourne University	VIC	MARQUEE	
3	Katie Brennan		KPF		24	Darebin Falcons		VIC	MARQUEE	
4	Aasta O'Connor		DEF/RUCK	25*	Darebin Falcons		VIC	12	
5	Emma Kearney		INS MID		27	Melbourne University	VIC	PRIORITY	Cricket
6	Kirsten McLeod		SML FWD			Cranbourne		VIC	28	
7	Jaimee Lambert		INS MID		22	Eastern Devils		VIC	5	
8	Kate Tyndall		OUT MID			Darebin Falcons		VIC	117	
9	Lisa Williams		OUT MID		25	Diamond Creek		VIC	92	
10	Nicole Callinan		OUT MID/SML DEF	34	Darebin Falcons		VIC	85		Indoor Cricket
11	Lauren Spark		KPD		31	Melbourne University	VIC	76		Beach Volleyball
12	Kimberley Ebb		OUT MID/RUN DEF	29	Seaford			VIC	37	
13	Laura Bailey		RUN DEF			St Kilda Sharks		VIC	143	
14	Ellyse Gamble		RUCK		19	Burnie Dockers		TAS	69	
15	Meghan McDonald					N/A				FREE AGENT	
17	Hayley Wildes		DEF		26	Cranbourne		VIC	44	
18	Libby Birch		DEF			Darebin Falcons		VIC	ROOKIE		Netball
19	Tiana Ernst		RUCK		29	Diamond Creek		VIC	108	
20	Rommy Timmins		INS MID			Berwick Hawks		VIC	53	
21	Bailey Hunt		KPD			Melbourne University	VIC	60	
22	Hannah Scott		INS MID		26	Eastern Devils		VIC	21	
23	Lauren Moorcroft	KPD		29	Diamond Creek		VIC	101	
24	Courtney Clarkson	KPF		25*	Cranbourne		VIC	124	
25	Bec Neaves					N/A				FREE AGENT	
27	Jess Gardner		UTILITY			St Kilda Sharks		VIC	131	
27	Kirsty Lamb		INS MID		22	Melbourne University	VIC	53		Cricket
36	Angelica Gogos					N/A				FREE AGENT
Katie Brennan is used to success, winning 11 straight premierships while transitioning from junior footy to senior footy with the Darebin Falcons. She won the inaugural women's best and fairest award at the Bulldogs in 2015, a rare feat for a key forward.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.


Goon Fantasy / Tipping Leagues

The Deadly Hume posted:

Just to get this on the first page, of course we'll have our usual tipping competition (that half the field ragequits after the fourth round). If you were in it last year, you'll be rolled over into the new season. Otherwise, you can sign up at

The password is goons.

News Sites – the official media outlet Was a good source for information about women’s footy, currently undergoing a site redesign to get ready for the inaugural AFLW season but hopefully the quality of content will remain high - the less tabloidy of the two Melbourne newspapers, you can get around their 30 articles per month limit by using incognito mode/private browsing – Rupert murdoch’s rag, if you really want to read something on here type the article headline into google and follow the link from there and it should get around the paywall – Another Murdoch jam, actually has some pretty decent coverage though – a humorous take on footy, a few updates per week generally, well liked in the thread, a long suffering Melbourne supporter (is there any other kind?)

Podcasts If you like listening to the same three teams discussed every week with a good dose of conservative talking points, this is the podcast for you. My pick for AFL audio, the ABC actually tend to talk about some football. The show is hosted by Gerard Whately, who is for my money the best broadcast journalist going round in footy. Podcast from the official AFL site, hosted by a couple of AFL media people as well as a player (previously have had Alex Rance and Adam Treloar, can’t remember who it was prior to that). Generally pretty good. Open Mike – Hosted by Mike Sheahan, a mostly retired AFL journalist. In depth interviews with players and prominent figures from the footy world, tends to focus on older guests. The Coodabeens - Some old guys talking poo poo for a few hours and singing bad football related lyrics to cover existing songs. It is tangential to footy but you’re not really going to find out anything about footy by listening to it. Junktime AFL – Two comedians talking footy, I haven’t actually listened to this one but have heard some decent things about it Titus and Sergio’s Variety Hour – Hosted by Titus O’Reily, it’s a general sports podcast but generally leans pretty heavily on footy during the season. 2 Guys 1 Cup – Another comedian hosted footy podcast

General Information - The wikipedia article actually has a lot of good stuff, including things like stadium sizes, historical data of club membership numbers etc.

Stats and other nerd poo poo

The Deadly Hume posted:

EDIT: Actually, since this seems to be my thing now, here's a few more links to look out if you're into analysis, datavis and other statistical voodoo - the official statistics partner of the AFL, but they don't give too much away, and their method for "official player ratings" isn't exactly transparent. They're pretty stingy with the public data too.

The off-Broadway scene is a bit more vibrant. - Matter of Stats - Footy Maths Institute - Hurling People Now - The Arc - did some very interesting datavis in 2016, also getting into the rating game this year. - Figuring Footy - very good repository of historical data and stats - good as a supplement to the above. - My own little thing. I started posting about my rating system for form tracking with some probability stuff on the footy threads and went a little more public with it last year. I still try a lot of my weird ideas here first.

Idiots to come

Rogues Gallery

Solemn Sloth fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Jan 17, 2017

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Placeholder just in case

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

The Deadly Hume posted:

Excellent OP!

Just to get this on the first page, of course we'll have our usual tipping competition (that half the field ragequits after the fourth round). If you were in it last year, you'll be rolled over into the new season. Otherwise, you can sign up at

The password is goons.

NTRabbit posted:

ESPN has been working on improving their AFL coverage, and they're a familiar face to our American visitors

Added these to the OP

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

drunkill posted:

Holy poo poo, excellent OP.

Although I'm pretty sure Carlton didn't finish with the wooden spoon last year. I'm calling it now, Carlton will finish in the 8 in 2017.

Also, even though the team post is long, maybe slip this map into the end of the post, it gives dirty foreigners international goons a good idea of the makeup of the league and why there is a Victoria/Melbourne bias:

Fake Edit: Hell, the wikipedia page is pretty decent too if you want to get even more information about some things, handy links to team pages and stadium information etc:

Whoops! have fixed it, added that map, a link to the wiki, a map of the Barassi Line, and Hume's stat/nerd links

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Thanks everyone, keep corrections coming as you see them, it's hard to proof read your own stuff especially when it's mixed up with BBCode so it's much appreciated.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Someone was asking for more detail about the ruck rule at boundary throw ins. When the ball falls short and neither ruck can make it there, no other players can touch it until it has hit the ground. It sounds dumb, will probably look dumb, but it's easy to umpire and I'm not sure what else they could have done. Hopefully boundary umps doing lots of curls in the off season to make sure they get enough distance most of the time

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

To be fair the new umpires boss is also the old umpires boss

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Periphery posted:

Really? For some reason I was sure that we got a new one. Maybe it was just wishful thinking.

We did but Schwab has served in the role previously too

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Nutsngum posted:

Wait is this the official line? I was under the assumption that the "third man" cannot make contact with the rucks but anyone simply roving the ball is fine?

*Edit. Holy poo poo straight from the Schwabs mouth. What a loving joke. I hope we get an instance where the rucks after wrestling so hard neither can get close to the ball whilst everyone else just stands around looking like an idiot so we can stop this loving lunacy.

Nah, it will just go to whoever times their move right to collect it on the half volley at speed.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

The Deadly Hume posted:

Are we going to need to have the designated rucks in different coloured jumpers or something

No, given that both teams already nominate a ruck at each contest

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Kate Shierlaw, the blues rookie ruck/kpf, was born in Australia but first played for the wimbledon hawks in that comp.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Sorry to be a downer but it seems really weird to me, you'd think after missing a whole year at and looking seriously like he might die that it would be best to ease back into a routine without the added pressure of captain put on him.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Stop being mad that I questioned whether someone who has just recovered from what looked like terminal cancer has enough on his plate just playing elite sport without being captain.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

It also helps blunt anyone criticising the Hawks if they have a down year because how dare you

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

or just a bad team. I thought Melbourne went too old with their marquee and pre-signed players, but then they seemed to over-adjust and went super young in their draftees.

2.4 to 1.2 at 3/4 time, then Carlton kicked 6.0 to 0.1 in the last.

Solemn Sloth fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 21, 2017

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

A nice birthday stat for Nathan Jones: He is one of only five players in VFL/AFL history to have a net margin of worse than -5000 points in games he has played.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

The Deadly Hume posted:

From what I'm here they're talking about moving it to Princes Park which would be much better for this sort of thing


The inaugural AFLW season hasn't even started yet and the AFL is already looking for ways to screw Collingwood over and give Carlton a helping hand. I guess it's good that the women are getting the same treatment the men have always had.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Nutsngum posted:

I joke about it stinking there a lot but lately it has been really bad every other day, at least for the past two months. I mean, it may not drift over to where the actual ovals are going to be but of all the places Dingley is such a drat odd choice.

Carn the wees and poos

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

My niece got the first ever signed #3 collingwood women's jumper :3:

We are old family friends since I went to primary school with Penny Cula-Reid and her brothers. She's amazing, deserves the chance to play at AFL level as much as anyone. She was one of three girls who sued the MSJFL for not
letting them continue playing juniors because they were female.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

A really excellent long-form piece focusing on the last six months or so of the Dogs women's team.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Good to see Basil Zempilas is a loving moron with all sports, not just footy.

Apparently the number 23 was made famous by Michael Jackson.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Going to the footy on Sunday :toot:

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

BrigadierSensible posted:

What's the deal with TV coverage for the womens games?

I know the Carlton/Collingwood game is on Free TV, but will teh other ones be covered?

I am considering heading into the city on the weekend to watch a game, but if it will be too hard to find, then it's not worth it.

The email I got from the Dees says our game will be on Foxtel

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

I hope the north supporter got their ticket in time :ohdear:

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

thepokey posted:

So I asked this last year but was too late to try it out during NAB cup or whatever the wizard homeloan cup is called now (and I guess the women's league if that's free streaming of all games?)

But say I wanted to watch more games streaming. Can I buy a google chromecast and then use an subscription service to watch it on TV? And then if that works I can just use a VPN to buy a league pass thingy and can stream games when they aren't FTA? And if I did that, do you just need the VPN to purchase the pass or do you need to use the VPN every time you want to watch?

Chrome casting from your PC/laptop or a mobile device?

If you're doing from a mobile device, no VPN necessary, I've never tried it but apparently the resolution and stuff isn't particularly great.

If you're doing it from a PC you need a VPN every time you're streaming, not just when you're registering. If you try to watch without some sort of masking service the stream won't load.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

hiddenmovement posted:

So, what is this chromecast dealy? Is it for your mobile? Because it's dead easy to whack an hdmi cable into the back of a laptop and output the image to your telly

Yeah I strongly support hdmi over chromecast, you don't have to worry about a whole lot of wank with your wireless signal

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

The good thing with something like getflix is that it lets you define which services you want to spoof your location for, so you can have it work for watchafl but not have to manually turn it off when you want to watch Netflix because they do their spoof blocking thing.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Football tonight :supaburn:

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Football is good IMO

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Collingwood player in the #6 dropping a chest Mark, it's like 2011 all over again!

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Vescio is going to be really handy given how much of a premium goals are at in the women's game

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Vescio is my favourite non Dees non Tayla Harris player

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

hiddenmovement posted:

Lmao collingwood are shithouse

Yeah I'm surprised, honestly thought they'd be up there for the flag. Two very strong performances in a row by the blues if you include the practice game

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Two of the greats, Usain Bolt and Bruce Macavaney

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Let Daisy go to bed, she's got some serious captaining to do come Sunday


Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Falcons might have a triple digit average margin this year given the experience and training programs their best players have access to tbh

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