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Cubone posted:Obama definitely took some questionable risks that are not often talked about in the mainstream media, because they're neocon and archconservative risks that don't fit with the narrative of a left-leaning Democratic Party, for example:
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Jan 18, 2017 05:39
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Shinjobi posted:Forgettable president. He was the first black president, and that's about all I expect to see in the history books aside from a footnote about the ACA. ACA will be forgotten unless UHC is passed at some point in the future then it will be known, rightly or wrongly, as the precursor for UHC. But yea, he will be generally known as the First Black PresidentTM and nothing else at least until racism stops being a thing.
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Jan 18, 2017 06:40
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Gyra_Solune posted:meanwhile, he also had Gaddafi killed and Libya immediately self-destructed into anarchy, whoops this is like the leftist version of 'obama got us into iraq' a) Libya was in a massive civil war before bombing started b) France was the first country to start bombing c) Gaddafi was killed by rebels on the ground
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Jan 18, 2017 06:45
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Russia still blamed Clinton for Gaddafi being bayonetted in the rear end till he died, and look what happened.
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Jan 18, 2017 06:47
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Ghaddafi would have won the civil war if it wasn't for the bombing. Now the Russians are making Warlord Haftar their buddy.
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Jan 18, 2017 06:51
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Fallen Hamprince posted:
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Jan 18, 2017 07:09
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Fallen Hamprince posted:this is like the leftist version of 'obama got us into iraq' The United States and the UK forced Libya to admit to the Lockerbie bombing despite the fact it was actually Syria because Reagan was too scared to challenge Assad's Dad back in the 80s, and had told everyone how Gadaffi was a reformed man, and a good guy now. Libya was now an ally in the region, a secular power and a trading partner. Then they backstabbed him and his son because Clinton managed to convince Obama of the neocon nonsense she still has a hard on for after decades of failure caused by it.
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Jan 18, 2017 08:44
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The Saurus posted:The United States and the UK forced Libya to admit to the Lockerbie bombing despite the fact it was actually Syria because Reagan was too scared to challenge Assad's Dad back in the 80s, and had told everyone how Gadaffi was a reformed man, and a good guy now. Libya was now an ally in the region, a secular power and a trading partner. Then they backstabbed him and his son because Clinton managed to convince Obama of the neocon nonsense she still has a hard on for after decades of failure caused by it. Thats a whole lot of moving parts when US foreign policy in the region has typically been to swing a big dick around and dare someone to notice. Subtlety is not something I associate with US middle east policy. Like, this is the country who predicated a war with Iraq over the transparent accusation that they had WMDs. You would think the competent CIA you're hypothesizing here could have at least planted a few nuke parts here or there to save the embarrassment.
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Jan 18, 2017 08:54
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Foreign policy risks: * Cuba * Iran * Libya * Syria
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Jan 18, 2017 09:00
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Well technically Iraq did have WMDs, if you count leaky barrels of improperly disposed nerve agents.
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Jan 18, 2017 09:15
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Not a Step posted:Thats a whole lot of moving parts when US foreign policy in the region has typically been to swing a big dick around and dare someone to notice. Subtlety is not something I associate with US middle east policy. Like, this is the country who predicated a war with Iraq over the transparent accusation that they had WMDs. You would think the competent CIA you're hypothesizing here could have at least planted a few nuke parts here or there to save the embarrassment. Haftar fled Libya in the 80s and lived a commute away from Langley. The CIA invested decades into him, and as soon as the civil war was in swing they tried to make him effective commander of opposition forces. They put all of that time, money, and resources behind this loser only for him to end up on a Russian aircraft carrier rubbing elbows with Ivan. lmao
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Jan 18, 2017 09:20
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Not a Step posted:Im not contesting that the Bin Laden raid required real grit and leadership. My main complaint is that I wish he'd shown that level of determination for his domestic policies. not prosecuting wall street was a p big risk that required a level of determination to soldier through for 8 years
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Jan 18, 2017 09:53
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Not prosecuting Wall Street was continuity of government.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:04
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The problem with prosecuting Wall Street is that everything they did leading up to 2008 was possibly legal and the only real thing you could bring charges on would be failure of fiduciary responsibility, which would be difficult to prove. Additionally, it wasn't the choice of one person, one Board of Directors, or even one department to engage in these activities, the entire structure of the organization distributed the responsibility from the CEOs to the hourly file clerks, each of which have no idea how to do the other's job. The risk analysts at each level in each of these companies were doing what they were internally and legally obligated to do, follow the guidance of external ratings agencies and internal risk assessors, and making recommendations based on that information rather than their own biased research, in the assumption that those ratings and assessments were made with proper due diligence. The problem with prosecuting Wall Street is that you have to shut down the entire finance industry. The massive frauds and reckless behavior that led to a global financial collapse were features of the system, not the result of several actors going rogue. Everyone was wrong because everyone else was wrong, and everyone was required by practice or law to assume that everyone else was right.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:20
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Fallen Hamprince posted:this is like the leftist version of 'obama got us into iraq' Those drat leftists, acting like the majority of Libya didn't want Gadaffi to be murdered/raped by a knife! Surely all those lovely rear end Sunni extremists that now inhabit Libya after his demise are a huge coincidence! ScrubLeague posted:The problem with prosecuting Wall Street is that everything they did leading up to 2008 was possibly legal and the only real thing you could bring charges on would be failure of fiduciary responsibility, which would be difficult to prove. Additionally, it wasn't the choice of one person, one Board of Directors, or even one department to engage in these activities, the entire structure of the organization distributed the responsibility from the CEOs to the hourly file clerks, each of which have no idea how to do the other's job. The risk analysts at each level in each of these companies were doing what they were internally and legally obligated to do, follow the guidance of external ratings agencies and internal risk assessors, and making recommendations based on that information rather than their own biased research, in the assumption that those ratings and assessments were made with proper due diligence. As a RAM at a French firm in Manhattan... Lmfao! Everyone was wrong so let them off the hook! Great logic. I hope I can tell my firm it's cool to gamble because we can just suck the working class's blood and have the government shield my rear end for the first time in my black life!
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Jan 18, 2017 11:30
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Oh I'm not saying it's like... good... that you can't really prosecute Wall Street, there's just not really any crime to charge anyone with, because no one person was making an intentional effort to defraud or steal from anyone. Everyone had a boss to answer to, and everything each individual person did was legal or within generally accepted guidelines. I think all of the bank CEOs and directors should be in jail, but what would you charge them with breaking? Laws that didn't exist at the time the offense was committed? The organizations were at fault, with a layered series of policies that allowed for irresponsible and fraudulent behavior to occur, but how do you punish an organization? Do you put JP Morgan Chase in jail? Is the guy who works at your local branch for $12 an hour as guilty as Jamie Dimon? You make them pay penalties, which happened. You can either make the fines ludicrously high to the point that it will bankrupt the company and put a lot of people who were just handling emails on the street, or you make it an amount that can reasonably get paid. I'm all for burning it to the ground, eating the rich, and the destruction of capitalism, but what people wanted to see happen to Wall Street and what could legally, financially, and practically happen were worlds apart. ScrubLeague has issued a correction as of 12:02 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 11:45
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ScrubLeague posted:Oh I'm not saying it's like... good... that you can't really prosecute Wall Street, there's just not really any crime to charge anyone with, because no one person was making an intentional effort to defraud or steal from anyone. Everyone had a boss to answer to, and everything each individual person did was legal or within generally accepted guidelines. I think all of the bank CEOs and directors should be in jail, but what would you charge them with breaking? Laws that didn't exist at the time the offense was committed? Fair. I care much less about prosecuting the individuals involved at the time as opposed to the federal government stepping up and taking control over our activity. Dodd-Frank is good but all it amounts to is "the feds can tell us to restructure when we really go off the rails with our crazy gambles, provided the restructuring is left up to the boards". I want to impress upon this board that in my last semester of college without internship I was given an 80k analyst position without any non-retail work experience. Now I am a risk assessment manager and make significantly more, and will most likely take another large leap once I close in on fluency in Chinese (Mandarin only). The financial sector's pay is extremely disproportionate to the rest of this country. Any jerk off with an economics or statistics degree is all but guaranteed 80k plus in New York fresh out of school, at a minimum. I am black as black can be on top of all this, and while white and asian people fare better in NY finance, if you have the credentials you are practically set. To think that in NY, where we have such a large shortage of teachers we offer a city run fellowship program to get anyone to teach for 40kish a year, while the finance sector rakes in money hand over fist, is disgusting. I honestly feel guilt over this daily, including right now as I wake up early for exercise before going to tell a bunch of investors we're gonna make money and we are fine. poo poo is so severely hosed up I don't even know where we could realistically start anymore.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:55
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ScrubLeague posted:Oh I'm not saying it's like... good... that you can't really prosecute Wall Street, there's just not really any crime to charge anyone with, because no one person was making an intentional effort to defraud or steal from anyone. Everyone had a boss to answer to, and everything each individual person did was legal or within generally accepted guidelines. I think all of the bank CEOs and directors should be in jail, but what would you charge them with breaking? Laws that didn't exist at the time the offense was committed? drat all these people just following orders
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Jan 18, 2017 12:16
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Is your firm hiring people in Texas with an incredibly specific set of skills and nearly a decade of experience in futures risk, cuz holla at me on linkbook if so
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Jan 18, 2017 12:16
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ScrubLeague posted:Is your firm hiring people in Texas with an incredibly specific set of skills and nearly a decade of experience in futures risk, cuz holla at me on linkbook if so In all seriousness, I'll see if I can't figure out who we are hiring for today. I'm gonna write this down in my iPhone notes. New York still sucks but Texas... poo poo.
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Jan 18, 2017 12:20
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the fact that multiple generations of our best and brightest are being sucked into the finance thresher so they can make lots of money to make their dickshit bosses an inconceivable amount of money is definitely extremely hosed up and probably setting up some sort of institutional collapse that'll make the mortgage bubble look like a decent alternative I don't think Obama had any real way to stop this though, short of ScrubLeague posted:The problem with prosecuting Wall Street is that you have to shut down the entire finance industry which would probably also be bad
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Jan 18, 2017 14:54
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He's killed a bunch of kids.
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Jan 18, 2017 14:58
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rudatron posted:A good man, a bad president Gonna need a source on the first claim
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Jan 18, 2017 16:16
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not only did the feds openly allow the banks to create the hot mess they found themselves in and then not look for wrong doing or to make an example of cases of criminal wrongdoing that were found, they also did not create strong laws after the fact to protect americans and then when banks were caught laundering drug cartel money or fraudulently creating new accounts and charging fees, things which are common sense immoral and illegal, they barely took action at all lmao scrub league you are such scum for saying banking did nothing wrong de jure
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Jan 18, 2017 18:05
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Fullhouse posted:the fact that multiple generations of our best and brightest are being sucked into the finance thresher so they can make lots of money to make their dickshit bosses an inconceivable amount of money is definitely extremely hosed up and probably setting up some sort of institutional collapse that'll make the mortgage bubble look like a decent alternative those peeps are going into technology companies now http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2015/11/17/more-harvard-business-grads-choosing-tech-startups.html
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Jan 18, 2017 18:12
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Obama is a huge failure. No single payer option in the ACA. dozens of little kids killed in Sandy Hook and no meaningful legislation came of that. so cool that those kids got murdered for no reason. speaking of murder for no reason, so many high profile murders of african american citizens at the hands of cops and most of them got away with a slap on the wrist. our uncle tom of a black president couldn't even stand up for the people who overwhelmingly got him elected in the first place. the labor department keeps making GBS threads out reports of jobs that were created under the obama administration but lol those are all just loving part time mcdonalds jobs. can't even get 15 dollar minimum wage or pull out of afghanistan. gently caress obama. gently caress our dumb country. eat the united states.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:16
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AND weed isn't even legalized. a huge bummer considering how much of it we will all need to get thru the next 4 years.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:20
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Mixodorian posted:I was given an 80k analyst position without any non-retail work experience. Now I am a risk assessment manager and make significantly more, ... 你們自殺就好 Modest Mao has issued a correction as of 18:23 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 18:20
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Pure Blaxplotiation posted:Obama is a huge failure. No single payer option in the ACA. dozens of little kids killed in Sandy Hook and no meaningful legislation came of that. so cool that those kids got murdered for no reason. speaking of murder for no reason, so many high profile murders of african american citizens at the hands of cops and most of them got away with a slap on the wrist. our uncle tom of a black president couldn't even stand up for the people who overwhelmingly got him elected in the first place. the labor department keeps making GBS threads out reports of jobs that were created under the obama administration but lol those are all just loving part time mcdonalds jobs. can't even get 15 dollar minimum wage or pull out of afghanistan. gently caress obama. gently caress our dumb country. eat the united states. don't forget the actual africans he killed and failed regime changes in africa that his admin supported lol Modest Mao has issued a correction as of 18:24 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 18:22
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Man Musk posted:those peeps are going into technology companies now most of the tech startups in the northeast provide services for finance, lol the rest are assorted enterprise garbage and none of them provide any remotely useful service to anyone in their community, but this part also applies to. tech nationwide
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Jan 18, 2017 18:23
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Pure Blaxplotiation posted:AND weed isn't even legalized. a huge bummer considering how much of it we will all need to get thru the next 4 years. Honestly with all the problems we have is weed really all that important?
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Jan 18, 2017 18:27
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ScrubLeague posted:The problem with prosecuting Wall Street is that everything they did leading up to 2008 was possibly legal and the only real thing you could bring charges on would be failure of fiduciary responsibility, which would be difficult to prove. Additionally, it wasn't the choice of one person, one Board of Directors, or even one department to engage in these activities, the entire structure of the organization distributed the responsibility from the CEOs to the hourly file clerks, each of which have no idea how to do the other's job. The risk analysts at each level in each of these companies were doing what they were internally and legally obligated to do, follow the guidance of external ratings agencies and internal risk assessors, and making recommendations based on that information rather than their own biased research, in the assumption that those ratings and assessments were made with proper due diligence. literally just throw the CEOs in jail. who cares if what they did was technically legal? slavery was legal forever until someone put a foot down on that poo poo.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:30
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Vladimir Putin posted:Honestly with all the problems we have is weed really all that important? no but it helps me when i stare into the void.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:31
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Helsing posted:Uhhhm, he also went against his own party to try and strike a grand bargain on cutting social security. It's not his fault those drat Tea Partiers obstructed him. This was one of the things that made me drop out of the Democratic Party - not only did Obama propose the Grand Bargain from a position of indefensible weakness, liberals decided to collectively forget this affair ever happened in order to hew to the "Obama is a Progressive, Dammit" narrative.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:32
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Vladimir Putin posted:Honestly with all the problems we have is weed really all that important? Ever hear of prison?
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Jan 18, 2017 18:38
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ScrubLeague posted:The problem with prosecuting Wall Street is that everything they did leading up to 2008 was possibly legal and the only real thing you could bring charges on would be failure of fiduciary responsibility, which would be difficult to prove. Additionally, it wasn't the choice of one person, one Board of Directors, or even one department to engage in these activities, the entire structure of the organization distributed the responsibility from the CEOs to the hourly file clerks, each of which have no idea how to do the other's job. The risk analysts at each level in each of these companies were doing what they were internally and legally obligated to do, follow the guidance of external ratings agencies and internal risk assessors, and making recommendations based on that information rather than their own biased research, in the assumption that those ratings and assessments were made with proper due diligence. Why the gently caress do people keep repeating this garbage? First of all, "possibly legal" = we should really investigate this, which essentially didn't happen. Second of all there was clearly a lot of outright fraud involved in the creation of the financial crisis. call to action posted:This was one of the things that made me drop out of the Democratic Party - not only did Obama propose the Grand Bargain from a position of indefensible weakness, liberals decided to collectively forget this affair ever happened in order to hew to the "Obama is a Progressive, Dammit" narrative. Of everything that happened in the Obama years I have noticed that the attempt to strike a 'grand bargain' is the thing that the largest number of Democrats will simply outright refuse to talk about or acknowledge. It's kind of like how nobody now acknowledges that Bill Clinton was in the first phase of privatizing social security when his administration got blind-sided by the Lewinsky scandal and all its assorted head aches. Republican obstructionism has, on several occasions, been the only thing standing in the way of some truly awful Democratic policies.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:41
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Mixodorian posted:Fair. I care much less about prosecuting the individuals involved at the time as opposed to the federal government stepping up and taking control over our activity. Dodd-Frank is good but all it amounts to is "the feds can tell us to restructure when we really go off the rails with our crazy gambles, provided the restructuring is left up to the boards". Eh, this is extremely school specific. You're not gonna get an Econ BA at your average State U and immediately land an NYC finance job with no experience.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:48
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Anyone who thinks there were only possibly illegal activities in the run up to the financial crisis is either completely ignorant or covering their rear end. Holder was picked by the banks and dedicated himself to making sure they never suffered any consequences for anything
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Jan 18, 2017 18:53
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SickZip posted:Anyone who thinks there were only possibly illegal activities in the run up to the financial crisis is either completely ignorant or covering their rear end. Most of the illegal activities were by the mortgage brokers and people selling the mortgages to people. Wall Street created a demand that incentivized people to break the law to satisfy these demands but that isn't illegal.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:56
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Pure Blaxplotiation posted:literally just throw the CEOs in jail. who cares if what they did was technically legal? slavery was legal forever until someone put a foot down on that poo poo. Who went to jail for doing slavery?
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Jan 18, 2017 19:17
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