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Bloops Crusts posted:Three months ago I'd have probably been of the same mind as the op, but the upshot of this election is that I lost every last drop of my kindness and my ability to have a baseline of respect for the other side. 90% of them voted the party line for a racist fascist authoritarian Putinistic sexual assaulting temperamentally-unfit corrupt tweet-happy scumbag. Aside from a rare few of them who refused to support Trump, I've cut the lot of them out of my lives, including members of my extended family, and I'll be very happy to live in my bubble and embrace the same tactics they did for the last eight years, ratcheting up the partisan polarization until our whole democracy inevitably breaks, because it's a foregone conclusion at this point, and gently caress it all if I'm gonna roll over for these alt-right dirtbags and give legitimacy to their pathetic victim complex. It's funny, i keep hearing of people wanting to adopt Trumps tactics for the left but i never hear any specifics. What does that really entail? What is your "We are gonna build a wall and make mexico pay for it" and "America First!"?
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Jan 20, 2017 13:43
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White Rock posted:It's funny, i keep hearing of people wanting to adopt Trumps tactics for the left but i never hear any specifics. What does that really entail? What is your "We are gonna build a wall and make mexico pay for it" and "America First!"? Just switch borders. Move to Canada and make them pay for a wall between them and the US.
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Jan 20, 2017 13:52
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evilmiera posted:Just switch borders. Move to Canada and make them pay for a wall between them and the US. So Canada should have a candidate that wants build a wall too keep foreigners south of the border out? 
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Jan 20, 2017 13:56
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Space Flower posted:actually there's three threads. you can also bring it up in the ▒▒▓█▇▅▂ADTRW Winter∩( ✧Д✧)∩Season 2017▂▅▇█▓▒▒ thread, or anime chat thread 18 For some reason I thought there was a thread for the manga too
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Jan 20, 2017 16:04
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We we should keep doing:
What we should stop doing:
What we should start doing that we're not doing now:
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Jan 20, 2017 16:50
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to charity first and see if you still feel like doing it afterwards
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White Rock posted:It's funny, i keep hearing of people wanting to adopt Trumps tactics for the left but i never hear any specifics. What does that really entail? What is your "We are gonna build a wall and make mexico pay for it" and "America First!"? Tactics such as online brigading, intimidation, veiled threats, holding every possible position while promising miracles and vague "great again" slogans. Facts are out of fashion with the American electorate, as is policy.
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Jan 20, 2017 20:20
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Talmonis posted:Tactics such as online brigading, intimidation, veiled threats, holding every possible position while promising miracles and vague "great again" slogans. Facts are out of fashion with the American electorate, as is policy. There was never a time were facts won over values and there is no such thing as a winning on being a "competent". If it was, we would have job applications (aka Technocracy) for political office, not elections. Trump is closer in value to what the who people voted him wanted, and that is what has ALWAYS mattered. Where as Hillary's electorate was disillusioned by a mediocre neoliberal. Look, here is what people know about Trump from the most casual of glances 1. He is hated by most of the establishment, so he is not part of it. 2. He says he's gonna bring the jobs back by closing the borders, leaving trade agreements and standing up against china. 3. He says that the system is broken and that most current politicians are lying scumbags. The democratic party doesn't want to leave NAFTA, were positive to TRIPP and wanted to enter Syria. Trumps strategy, populism, requires that your willing to give people what they want. Trumps suggestions are POPULAR, no matter how well they work. So what is your platform? Are you gonna preach that globalization will bring jobs back? That TRIPP will bring millions of dollars of Chinese investments that will quadruple job growth? That the system is broken, politicians are thieves and that's why we need a strong... moderate center-left leader? Very extremist of you. If you wanna run a populist candidate, you better be willing to say that you will lock up the bankers and throw away the key.
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Jan 21, 2017 12:33
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White Rock posted:It's funny, i keep hearing of people wanting to adopt Trumps tactics for the left but i never hear any specifics. What does that really entail? What is your "We are gonna build a wall and make mexico pay for it" and "America First!"? Invent never-ending, palpably false claims about Trump and the Republicans and repeat them until they are normalised. Primary Democrats who do anything other than vote against the Administration on everything for the next eight years. Start carrying guns everywhere you legally can.
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Jan 21, 2017 23:39
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sitchensis posted:actually I'm pretty sure its the people who literally oppress the rights of minorities who are bad I'm deeply skeptical of this attitude, held by people behave like assholes in the name of defending me from "oppression" via internet posts. Maybe it's just being mean for the sake of being mean to people who disagree 
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Jan 21, 2017 23:46
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White Rock posted:That's a very shallow analysis. I feel like this approach is very short sighted and is only going to work for one cycle though. Like yes, Trump ran a populist campaign and it worked. But it was by making promises he knows he can't possibly fulfill. What's going to happen in 2020 when the jobs still haven't come back? What happens when putting foxes in charge of all the government hen houses takes such a toll that people start noticing it's actively making their lives worse? I'm not even saying that you're going to be able to reach GOP voters with the message of "poo poo is still hosed and it's Trump's fault" but I do think it's reasonable to expect the democratic base to be more energized against him once he's spent four years loving them and the makeup of the swing voters in the middle might trend a little more favorably once he's done nothing to help them. Democrats could run on a platform of "we're going to lock up all the bankers and bring all the jobs back" but I'm not convinced that they could do either. And then they're left running on a platform of "We're still trying to lock up those bankers and we need another four years to bring the jobs back!". Note I'm not proposing another centrist candidate either, I fully think the Democrats should run to the left I just don't think they can do it in quite the same way Trump did. Caveat: This is all assuming that Trump does not actually Make America Great Again.
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Jan 22, 2017 00:22
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How could he possibly do that? A new new deal that's just for white people?
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Jan 22, 2017 00:35
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Great Metal Jesus posted:I feel like this approach is very short sighted and is only going to work for one cycle though. Like yes, Trump ran a populist campaign and it worked. But it was by making promises he knows he can't possibly fulfill. What's going to happen in 2020 when the jobs still haven't come back? What happens when putting foxes in charge of all the government hen houses takes such a toll that people start noticing it's actively making their lives worse? I'm not even saying that you're going to be able to reach GOP voters with the message of "poo poo is still hosed and it's Trump's fault" but I do think it's reasonable to expect the democratic base to be more energized against him once he's spent four years loving them and the makeup of the swing voters in the middle might trend a little more favorably once he's done nothing to help them. The Democrats avoided prosecuting bankers because they didn't want to, not because it would have been too difficult. What the gently caress are you talking about? This is the most baffling kind of Obama apologism.
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Jan 22, 2017 00:49
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Great Metal Jesus posted:I feel like this approach is very short sighted and is only going to work for one cycle though. Like yes, Trump ran a populist campaign and it worked. But it was by making promises he knows he can't possibly fulfill. What's going to happen in 2020 when the jobs still haven't come back? What happens when putting foxes in charge of all the government hen houses takes such a toll that people start noticing it's actively making their lives worse? I'm not even saying that you're going to be able to reach GOP voters with the message of "poo poo is still hosed and it's Trump's fault" but I do think it's reasonable to expect the democratic base to be more energized against him once he's spent four years loving them and the makeup of the swing voters in the middle might trend a little more favorably once he's done nothing to help them. George W Bush did exactly all of this and won a second term. Literally the only chance for the democrats is to run a cool, high energy candidate. It's actually that simple. The track record is unbelievably obvious. Mondale - Watching him talk was like watching white paint dry on a potato. Strategy: Act like Reagan's biggest teenage fan. Lost by the biggest landslide in American history. Dukakis - Alfred E Neuman, the candidate. Strategy: Photo op in an Abrams tank wearing a very stupid helmet. Didn't do quite so badly as Mondale, largely because HW was a big nerd himself. Clinton - Played a saxophone wearing shades like a boss. This guy clearly fucks. HW: Huge nerd, see above. Bob Dole: boring, looks like he smells of farts. Two terms, no problem. Gore - If you can get through a single Al Gore speech from the 2000 campaign without checking your phone, I'll personally mail you a dollar. W may have been the world's fakest cool guy, but at least he was trying. At all. Kerry - You have to be loving kidding me with this guy. How did you find someone more boring than Gore? How? Obama - The coolest president. Hillary - Literally grandma. Trump won because he's cooler than grandma. The media got caught off guard because in a rational system, unfavorability ratings should mean something in an election. Trump was unfavorable because he was an exciting heel, a cackling villain, an interesting character. Americans love to hate a villian as much or more than they love to root for the good guy. When there's no hero to root for, guess who gets 100% of the airtime? Democrats need a cartoon character, or else they'll keep losing to cartoon characters. It isn't much more complex than that.
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Jan 22, 2017 01:18
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This kind of problem is pretty common in political discourse. It's not a a problem of Left vs Right, but a problem of People Who Can Debate w/o resorting to ad hominem attacks among various other logical fallacies(which I think is most of the forum) and People who simply do not posses the self-control required for the former (which is a few vitriolic bad apples from both sides that spoil the forum for everyone). The latter individuals are usually pretty easy to spot because they have rap sheets as long as Trump's unfurled comb over. If you're unwilling to perma-ban them, perhaps because their incessant, nearly instantaneous post-normal ban re-registering is a consistent source of reliable income then at least ban them from normal D&D, give them their own "seething biomass of impotent rage" sub-form and let them tear at each other till their hearts content. At least that way threads in D&D won't immediately become unreadable screaming matches anytime one poster disagrees with another poster. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 02:37
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Great Metal Jesus posted:I feel like this approach is very short sighted and is only going to work for one cycle though. Like yes, Trump ran a populist campaign and it worked. But it was by making promises he knows he can't possibly fulfill. What's going to happen in 2020 when the jobs still haven't come back? What happens when putting foxes in charge of all the government hen houses takes such a toll that people start noticing it's actively making their lives worse? I'm not even saying that you're going to be able to reach GOP voters with the message of "poo poo is still hosed and it's Trump's fault" but I do think it's reasonable to expect the democratic base to be more energized against him once he's spent four years loving them and the makeup of the swing voters in the middle might trend a little more favorably once he's done nothing to help them. I definitely think they should do it the way Trump did. I don't think they are actually capable though. Nude Bog Lurker posted:Invent never-ending, palpably false claims about Trump and the Republicans and repeat them until they are normalised. Primary Democrats who do anything other than vote against the Administration on everything for the next eight years. Start carrying guns everywhere you legally can. Talmonis posted:Tactics such as online brigading, intimidation, veiled threats, holding every possible position while promising miracles and vague "great again" slogans. Facts are out of fashion with the American electorate, as is policy. Hey, do you actually wanna emulate Trump? Like successfully? Take people who have their wages stagnate for the last 30 years and r direct their anger towards the elites. Paint yourself as an outsider, the one that will take the establishment down a notch. Reinterpret what it means to be American by claiming your enemies to be have unamerican qualities ( for the left this could mean: being American is EARNING your way, and rich parasites are unpatriotic? one idea of many). Make simple policies that are obvious in the way they generate material gain for your voter base. Pose yourself in opposition of the establishment by rejecting their neoliberal agenda, like globalized trade. For some more practical policies unique to the left, run a platform of jailing the bankers and wall street, taxing the rich, universal healthcare for all, abandoning NAFTA and continuing to opposition to TRIPPS, closing tax loopholes and making American Companies pay taxes owed, assist unions against mega corporations and increased public infrastructure spending for jobs. Make any the funding of police and state activities via fines illegal to close perverse incentives, make commitments to revitalize poor neighborhoods and provide funding for housing developments in cities to alleviate housing shortages. Focus on how Trump has failed to implement his policies (which he will do, majority of republicans hates his guts) and how he has pushed actions that line his own pockets and that of his cronies (which he definitely will do). Expose him as a snake that is doing just what all previous crooks did, and align yourself as a true alternative. Look at Corbyn, the five star movement, Podemos and other left populist for inspiration. Actually, here, let me post the wiki article for Pomedos policies here: quote:Podemos presented a collaboratively written programme for the European elections 2014. Some of the most important policies were: Basically, solve what people SEE as the problem, with the solutions that the people WANT. I like the guns idea though.. White Rock fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 02:46
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Yeah, y'all may be right. I'm still trying to figure out what the gently caress happened. Also didn't mean to imply that the Democrats actually WANTED to prosecute the bankers. I just don't think that a candidate who wanted to would actually be able to.
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Jan 22, 2017 02:49
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:George W Bush did exactly all of this and won a second term. This is a very good post, elections are popularity contests so running the popular kid regardless of brains (or lack thereof) will get you a win. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 14:37
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A healthy candidate has both policies the people want and charisma the people enjoy. Forsaking either leaves a huge weakness and leaves the race up to a gamble. If you ran an antipope-level super charismatic candidate who supported global genocide but was so endearing that it was impossible to stick thosr beliefs to him, he'd win. If you ran a scientist who stuttered, was overweight, rear end-ugly, and camera-shy, but had a policy platform anyone could read/understand/agree with, that solved every issue, and could only be enacted by him, he'd also probably win. The odds of getting either even once, let alone consistently in a row, are astronomically low. Accessability is a key aspect here for stances. As much as its suggested otherwise this was not Dumb rear end in a top hat vs. Intelligent Policy Wonk, this was Dumb rear end in a top hat vs. Site Reference That Directs Viewers To Anti-Pepe Article.
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Jan 22, 2017 16:17
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-Blackadder- posted:This kind of problem is pretty common in political discourse. It's not a a problem of Left vs Right, but a problem of People Who Can Debate w/o resorting to ad hominem attacks among various other logical fallacies(which I think is most of the forum) and People who simply do not posses the self-control required for the former (which is a few vitriolic bad apples from both sides that spoil the forum for everyone). The latter individuals are usually pretty easy to spot because they have rap sheets as long as Trump's unfurled comb over. Yeah, I agree. I used to think we needed some sort of complex rules for good faith posting. But really, "no personal attacks" would catch most of the problem.
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Jan 22, 2017 17:49
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Neurolimal posted:If you ran an antipope-level super charismatic candidate who supported global genocide but was so endearing that it was impossible to stick thosr beliefs to him, he'd win. If you ran a scientist who stuttered, was overweight, rear end-ugly, and camera-shy, but had a policy platform anyone could read/understand/agree with, that solved every issue, and could only be enacted by him, he'd also probably win. When, in post-television America, has your second example ever happened?
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Jan 22, 2017 18:27
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Guy Goodbody posted:The fact that you see your posting on D&D as the equivalent of resisting Hitler makes me concerned for your mental well-being. ...Nobody tell him.
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Jan 22, 2017 19:13
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:When, in post-television America, has your second example ever happened? Never, because the ambition required to run for president rarely if ever overlaps with the humility required to endure the levels of bullshit scientists have to deal with. The point isn't "which one of these extremes beats the other??", it's that we cant rely on Campaign Obamas to push lesser-evil policies in an appealing way.
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Jan 22, 2017 19:18
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Guy Goodbody posted:The fact that you see your posting on D&D as the equivalent of resisting Hitler makes me concerned for your mental well-being. The fact that you see Hitler and people who call Hitler Hitler as morally equivalent makes me worry that you're not a good person.
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Jan 23, 2017 01:16
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Somfin posted:The fact that you see Hitler and people who call Hitler Hitler as morally equivalent makes me worry that you're not a good person. what?
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Jan 23, 2017 02:52
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I think I'm being misunderstood by some people. I never said don't punch nazis. I said don't assume someone on D&D is a nazi because they disagree with you about something.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:04
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^^ that sure sounds like something a Nazi would sayNeurolimal posted:If you ran a scientist who stuttered, was overweight, rear end-ugly, and camera-shy, but had a policy platform anyone could read/understand/agree with, that solved every issue, and could only be enacted by him, he'd also probably win. Not a chance. Few people pay attention to policy, they care about appearances and delivery. Both primaries were a lesson in this; the Republican for its general insanity, the Democratic for how close the platforms were but how far apart the candidates ended up in popular appeal.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:05
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I like how scientists are held up as the platonic ideal of a non politicized person.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:36
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Eej posted:I like how scientists are held up as the platonic ideal of a non politicized person. Yeah, there is a surprising amount of ideology in science, even in the physical sciences.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:49
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silence_kit posted:Yeah, there is a surprising amount of ideology in science, even in the physical sciences. No, there isn't. There's ideology in scientists, but science either works or it doesn't.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:26
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:No, there isn't. There's ideology in scientists, but science either works or it doesn't. Paging one of our resident philosophy of science nerds... Science itself can be considered an ideology, really.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:09
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I guess it can depend on what you think ideology is but there is a ton of ideology in science.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:14
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Lefties need to pump the breaks when it comes to defending robocop types. Unclench your buttholes a bit and laugh at some pink haired cringe people. Its not like you can't also laugh at dipshit Trumpers
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Jan 23, 2017 06:20
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The Kingfish posted:Lefties need to pump the breaks when it comes to defending robocop types. Unclench your buttholes a bit and laugh at some pink haired cringe people. Its not like you can't also laugh at dipshit Trumpers One of those is far more frequently correct, though.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:38
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Trumpers are correct ~0% of the time so it's not like that's a high bar to clear.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:44
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My point is that there's not a great deal to laugh at.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:56
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:No, there isn't. There's ideology in scientists, but science either works or it doesn't. Wow, I feel like I'm in a bizarro Sunday School class. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of
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Jan 23, 2017 07:56
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