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Eiba
Jul 26, 2007



Ofaloaf posted:

tldr: It's that one scene from Malcolm in the Middle of the dad replacing a light bulb, except it's modding.
Well I have a friend who loves Stellaris and the Austro-Hungarian empire who you are making very happy, so keep up the good work.

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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Englands's greatest Prime Minister?


ProfessorCirno posted:

The only time I've found land army forces to matter is when an event goes terribly wrong and a planet is invaded by titanic life or terraforming goes terribly wrong and hordes of ravenous mutants begin infesting my countryside. This is because, maybe due to bug, maybe mod, I found I still technically owned those planets, so I couldn't bombard them, and in turn the enemy was big enough that I needed an extremely substantial army to dislodge them - like, more then 30 troops, easily.

This is why Psi Troops are so good. Build like 30 of them, drop them on a fully fortified planet, and they annihilate the enemy morale so fast that it's purely a matter of time until the planet drops. And as a Spiritualist you can get them super early to boot.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



StrixNebulosa posted:

Have I even left the early game?

Here lies StrixNebulosa. RIP. He never expanded.

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

ProfessorCirno posted:

The only time I've found land army forces to matter is when an event goes terribly wrong and a planet is invaded by titanic life or terraforming goes terribly wrong and hordes of ravenous mutants begin infesting my countryside. This is because, maybe due to bug, maybe mod, I found I still technically owned those planets, so I couldn't bombard them, and in turn the enemy was big enough that I needed an extremely substantial army to dislodge them - like, more then 30 troops, easily.

The last one was especially annoying because they put the planet on auto-purge to remove everyone, and the rest of my pops immediately began screaming at me for purging people even though I didn't purge them, it was the goddamn mutants

I was thinking that it might be better if the focus of ground troops would be switched from invading planets to protecting or keeping those planets.

Maybe make rebellions more dangerous so you actually have to prepare for them?

Kitchner
Nov 9, 2012



I just think the problem with the ground combat right now is that a) it's a pain to micromanage, which could be solved with an 'army builder' but b) there's no meaningful choice, because once an invasion starts you don't usually have the time to send reinforcements or build more stuff on the planet.

Like if you go to Warhammer 40K lore as an example, it's a universe with epic scale fleet battles and epic scale land battles (literally), where even in a universe where a cruiser on it's own could, with enough time, wipe all life from a planet, the ground troops are really important and cool.

This is because there are very few instances where a planet is just totally captured in the space of like a month, and if that does happen it's usually some sort of surprise attack and the counter attack is a grinding war of attrition. The fleet part is then important because you need to protect your reinforcements or prevent enemy reinforcements.

Imagine there's a battle for a planet going on and it's like 10 times longer than it takes now. Your fleet has dropped off the armies so what does it do? Does it just sit there in orbit doing nothing just in case the enemy comes with reinforcements? or do you move onto the next planet? Likewise doe the enemy attempt to break through and drop reinforcements? Maybe it should be possible for your troop transports to make a break for the planet even while being attacked, with your fleet causing enough damage/trouble that while some transports die others get through and land.

If I actually felt there was a full scale war underway on the surface, buildings being destroyed, armies slowly being ground down and both sides hoping they get some reinforcements to break the deadlock, I would care more about armies. I mean i know it sounds boring if like every planet bordering your neighbour has a ground war going on, but that also means you need to divert resources and protect reinforcements on that border with your navy. All the coolest 40K stories are the big massive battles for key worlds where both sides have naval skirmishes constantly and manage to break through with supplies and reinforcements to fuel the ongoing war on the planet. I think if Stellaris can capture the feeling hat you're really fuelling a massive war by making sure they get supplies etc then that would be a start.

RobotDogPolice
Dec 1, 2016


Is there a good general guide for new players? What do you usually do with a fresh game?

StarMinstrel
Oct 21, 2012

Literally a star.


RabidWeasel posted:

Yes the ship designer and planetary landings / combat feel like features which only exist because they're things that people expect a space 4x game to have. I certainly wouldn't miss these if they were removed, there's nothing fun and compelling about them, they're just something you have to interact with occasionally while playing the 'real' game.

I don't mind the ship designer, but RE:planetary landings I could stand with having less busy body and having to design a ship with a "Space Marines" module that simply enable you to capture a planet if you have enough of them. This would do away with having a completely separate ship that you form from having built separate entities (assault troops and such) on planet.

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?

Why in the hell would you ever want to remove the ship designer?

Wiz, if you ever feel the need to mess with the designer, do the opposite. Go apeshit. Turn this into SoTS. Do not listen to these bads.

Planetary combat is pretty lame though.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Englands's greatest Prime Minister?


RobotDogPolice posted:

Is there a good general guide for new players? What do you usually do with a fresh game?

Three keys to success in this game: expand, expand, expand.

First couple months, use your science ships (build an extra one) to locate some close by systems with minerals. Plop a frontier outpost down to claim them. If you can claim a planet in the process, so much the better. Build mining stations to collect minerals, don't worry about energy save for keeping a positive income. Research Colony Ships as your first biology tech. The same month you finish it, have 350 minerals saved up, order a colony ship and settle the best planet you can. At this point start building extra corvettes, up to your fleet cap. From now until the end of the game, poo poo out as many colony ships as possible, colonize anything with 60 habitability or better.

Periodically check on your neighbors diplomatic screens, if their fleet power is ever rated superior, build military ships like a madman. Kinetic Weapons and Plasma are best, avoid missiles and non-energy torpedoes. Generally speaking you want to be building towards your fleet capacity cap unless you're superior to all your neighbors.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Kitchner posted:

*land war stuff*

Yeah I think this is a lot of why the general army stuff seems like a pain - land wars feel like such a minor thing that it doesn't really seem to matter if you take psi troops or xeno troops or any of the attachments. If wars over a planet's surface were a larger scale thing (not necessarily something the player needs to micromanage themselves, just something that is in general more substantial) it might feel more important.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic

Personally, the ship design is one of those fiddlier aspects of the game that, while fun to play with, makes it harder to balance. Much like the current planetary grid system. No idea on what would be the ideal replacement really. The ship designer's only merit is that it's fun to tinker with, unlike the planet grids.

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?


Sperglord Firecock posted:

I was halfway asleep after a night shift while making it and I wanted to do something simple and easy without trying to be witty, so let's talk about the game in this thread designed for talking about the game

I am not super against the title but there were some excellent title suggestions based on the exciting new cuisine options in the next DLC, so I hope you'll consider changing to one of them when it comes out!

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Take it from me, you can get brain damage from rubber horsecock induced autoerotic asphyxiation.

Kitchner posted:

I just think the problem with the ground combat right now is that a) it's a pain to micromanage, which could be solved with an 'army builder' but b) there's no meaningful choice, because once an invasion starts you don't usually have the time to send reinforcements or build more stuff on the planet.

Like if you go to Warhammer 40K lore as an example, it's a universe with epic scale fleet battles and epic scale land battles (literally), where even in a universe where a cruiser on it's own could, with enough time, wipe all life from a planet, the ground troops are really important and cool.

This is because there are very few instances where a planet is just totally captured in the space of like a month, and if that does happen it's usually some sort of surprise attack and the counter attack is a grinding war of attrition. The fleet part is then important because you need to protect your reinforcements or prevent enemy reinforcements.

Imagine there's a battle for a planet going on and it's like 10 times longer than it takes now. Your fleet has dropped off the armies so what does it do? Does it just sit there in orbit doing nothing just in case the enemy comes with reinforcements? or do you move onto the next planet? Likewise doe the enemy attempt to break through and drop reinforcements? Maybe it should be possible for your troop transports to make a break for the planet even while being attacked, with your fleet causing enough damage/trouble that while some transports die others get through and land.

If I actually felt there was a full scale war underway on the surface, buildings being destroyed, armies slowly being ground down and both sides hoping they get some reinforcements to break the deadlock, I would care more about armies. I mean i know it sounds boring if like every planet bordering your neighbour has a ground war going on, but that also means you need to divert resources and protect reinforcements on that border with your navy. All the coolest 40K stories are the big massive battles for key worlds where both sides have naval skirmishes constantly and manage to break through with supplies and reinforcements to fuel the ongoing war on the planet. I think if Stellaris can capture the feeling hat you're really fuelling a massive war by making sure they get supplies etc then that would be a start.

If troops were cheaper and easier to produce and wars against a defended planet turned into armageddon then yeah ground combat would be loving awesome. Having lightly defended convoys of troops funneling themselves into the meat grinder would be awesome. Its no longer *take 3 planets* its *spend the entire war trying to take a fortress world*, this would also make things like the strong trait way more relevant.

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


Kitchner posted:

Imagine there's a battle for a planet going on and it's like 10 times longer than it takes now. Your fleet has dropped off the armies so what does it do? Does it just sit there in orbit doing nothing just in case the enemy comes with reinforcements? or do you move onto the next planet? Likewise doe the enemy attempt to break through and drop reinforcements? Maybe it should be possible for your troop transports to make a break for the planet even while being attacked, with your fleet causing enough damage/trouble that while some transports die others get through and land.

It would be cool if transports didn't get sucked into fleet actions, they could run the blockade (and still die if there were no escort)

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?


Psycho Landlord posted:

Why in the hell would you ever want to remove the ship designer?



I would stop playing this game if they took it out.

poverty goat
Feb 15, 2004

Let me tell you a thing or two about GhostCoin

In line with how sectors/governors work I just want to assign armies to a general and attach him to a fleet and let him micromanage when to attack and when to take off. Now generals are useful too . While we're at it, let the admirals control the fleet once the hostile fleets are dead and it's time for the tedious planet hopping invasions. I just want to select a fleet w/ an army attached shift-rightclick a bunch of planets and have it sensibly siege and invade them all in order

I've played 2 games in a row where the late game crises went off like a wet fart without ever taking more than 1 territory before being defeated quickly by NPCs, is this a thing now or just bad luck?

poverty goat fucked around with this message at Jan 22, 2017 around 05:21

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Take it from me, you can get brain damage from rubber horsecock induced autoerotic asphyxiation.

Nah endgame stuff needs to be beefed up or just do it in waves rather then 1 at a time. Unbidden should honestly keep trying to break in and establishing footholds until they succeed then you have to knock out their main gate to finally stop them. The scourge should hit a wide edge of the map with light forces to represent the scouts then have bigger and bigger fleets appearing until you get the whole hive fleet. The scouts will allow them to establish a presence while the hive fleet will be hammering at the gates.

RobotDogPolice
Dec 1, 2016


Started as xenophile spiritualists and wanted to run a more diplomatic game. How large should I keep my fleets/armies? Do you generally give new colonies a defensive army immediately or wait awhile?

Heartcatch
Oct 14, 2004

We won't get far on hot air and fantasy.


I tend to put 2~5 defensive armies in a peaceful game at a rate depending on planetary importance. As for fleets, I think you're fine if you've a home fleet and maybe one fleet meant to fight off pirates and anomalies/events. Should be at least three-fourths as large as the closest aggressive empire's.

RobotDogPolice
Dec 1, 2016


Also, what should I be doing with extra energy?

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


RobotDogPolice posted:

Also, what should I be doing with extra energy?

To get rid of a lump sum before you reach your cap, buy stuff from traders and terraform worlds

To stop yourself getting to that point, build robots and science labs

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010


So one thing you can do early in a game is send out your starting military ships to cruise past every system you can. Hopefully doing this will let you eventually find the science guys and/or the trade guys. The science guys let you trade energy for a +15% overall research boost and a 5-star solid research guy, the trader enclave lets you trade between energy/minerals at a 2-1 ratio. Aside from those, build more stations/upgrade buildings if you're not over your energy cap, and try to eke out more minerals/science.

Outside of those you don't have much to do with pure energy, you can try to trade it to other people (probably not gonna work) or just build a bank and work on other stuff.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


GunnerJ posted:



I would stop playing this game if they took it out.

but it's literally just a simple optimisation problem you totally ignore except when you unlock new tech. As someone else said planetary tiles are similar but I feel like that has more potential to actually be interesting to work with in future (though there is an annoyingly high level of micromanagement required if you want to be optimal) and in any case removing it would require a total rework of pops while removing the ship designer would only require a few small changes to techs

Mondian
Apr 24, 2007

Allow me to interject. I have been using electronic cigarettes for a few months now. You see, I am an Expert

I sure hope 1.5 brings an "enslave all pops" button to planets. Bit annoying when conquering disgusting xenos hugbox planets full of varied species and having to enslave them all individually.

Also the option to terraform populated planets. I don't really see a reason to waste time exterminating that filth when they can just get churned up with the rest of the biosphere.

Pi In The Sky
Dec 31, 2015


Do Sectors have the same Colony number limits that you do, or can you have as many in a sector that you want with no penalties?

Also, is there any reason at all to have a Frontier Outpost in a system that you have a Colony in?

Dulkor
Feb 28, 2009



Pi In The Sky posted:

Also, is there any reason at all to have a Frontier Outpost in a system that you have a Colony in?

Absolutely not. Ditch that poo poo once you have a more solid claim and save the influence.

Mondian
Apr 24, 2007

Allow me to interject. I have been using electronic cigarettes for a few months now. You see, I am an Expert

Frontier Outposts don't have the same border push as colonies, do they? I tried to put one in a system with a conquered planet I was hoping to terraform, but as soon as the last pop was purged the system got absorbed by a neighboring empire. Most unfortunate.

Roland Jones
Aug 18, 2011
As a white American, it is my civic duty to kill my racist father, mother and any other family members, including myself.
That way people of color can finally be safe from white people.


Mondian posted:

I sure hope 1.5 brings an "enslave all pops" button to planets. Bit annoying when conquering disgusting xenos hugbox planets full of varied species and having to enslave them all individually.

Also the option to terraform populated planets. I don't really see a reason to waste time exterminating that filth when they can just get churned up with the rest of the biosphere.

The latest dev diary explained how slavery's going to work in 1.5. For a simple explanation, it's now part of species rights you decide per species; no micromanaging individual pops. The five rights settings are:
  • Full Citizenship: No pops are enslaved
  • Caste System: Pops working minerals or food (i.e. the things slaves are better at producing) are enslaved, ones who aren't aren't.
  • Limited Citizenship: Not enslaved, but not getting full rights (more details in the link).
  • Slaves: Exactly what it sounds like, your empire's entire population of this species is enslaved, regardless of what they work. There are several slavery types besides the current "good at food and minerals, bad at everything else" one that the link expands on.
  • Undesirables: These pops are either forcefully relocated or outright purged, depending on what you choose.
So, it's not exactly what you're asking for, but really it's arguably better outside of weird niche circumstances. Heck, you can even set what a species's rights will be in your empire before you have any of that pop in your empire, j just after you know they exist, in preparation for your future plans.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



I wish I could ban robots without having to research robot tech. You can have robot pops on conquered planets but you can't auto smash them until you know how to build them yourself.

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


Poil posted:

I wish I could ban robots without having to research robot tech. You can have robot pops on conquered planets but you can't auto smash them until you know how to build them yourself.

You need to know where the off switch is

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ


I haven't even played a game yet and I've already made a lovely mod: Homeworld emblem pack.

Gotta have me my Hiigarans.

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?

GotLag posted:

I haven't even played a game yet and I've already made a lovely mod: Homeworld emblem pack.

Gotta have me my Hiigarans.

This is a good mod.

RabidWeasel posted:

but it's literally just a simple optimisation problem you totally ignore except when you unlock new tech. As someone else said planetary tiles are similar but I feel like that has more potential to actually be interesting to work with in future (though there is an annoyingly high level of micromanagement required if you want to be optimal) and in any case removing it would require a total rework of pops while removing the ship designer would only require a few small changes to techs

I would argue that planet tiles are a simple optimization problem that I totally ignore until I unlock the next power plant upgrade and that ship designs are interesting to work with now. Funny how that works.

My actual belief is that both systems are cool and good, though in need of some polish and expansion, and that anything that allows personalization and player input is good in Stellaris, noted space empire roleplaying game.

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

There is exactly 0% chance that the ship designer is ever getting cut. Asides from the fact that I personally enjoy it, it's both a 4x staple and something that a lot of people want (we have metrics on this).

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic

Wiz posted:

There is exactly 0% chance that the ship designer is ever getting cut. Asides from the fact that I personally enjoy it, it's both a 4x staple and something that a lot of people want (we have metrics on this).

How about the planet grid?

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Argas posted:

How about the planet grid?

The planet grid is... alright. It works but it's too micro-intensive, especially when you're upgrading a lot of buildings. I also don't like how it makes your planets feel like giant mines/farms rather than places people live. Reworking it is not out of the question but it'd be a pretty huge investment of time.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

Wiz posted:

There is exactly 0% chance that the ship designer is ever getting cut. Asides from the fact that I personally enjoy it, it's both a 4x staple and something that a lot of people want (we have metrics on this).

This is reassuring, thank you. If anything, I agree with the poster up the thread - go full SOTS on it and force the player to design around techs they haven't rolled.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



Wiz posted:

The planet grid is... alright. It works but it's too micro-intensive, especially when you're upgrading a lot of buildings. I also don't like how it makes your planets feel like giant mines/farms rather than places people live. Reworking it is not out of the question but it'd be a pretty huge investment of time.

I hate to say this, but MOO3 did this in an alright way. Planets have zones of various terrain types and you built administrative, production and mining/farming developments on those zones with various upgrades possible as well. Population was automatically assigned by the system. Maybe the way to go is to just remove planetary tiles and have the number of pops impact the overall efficiency of all developments. Densely populated worlds will be able to support massive factories and lab developments while sparsely populated worlds with good environments can be used as bread baskets.

Roland Jones
Aug 18, 2011
As a white American, it is my civic duty to kill my racist father, mother and any other family members, including myself.
That way people of color can finally be safe from white people.


Wiz posted:

The planet grid is... alright. It works but it's too micro-intensive, especially when you're upgrading a lot of buildings. I also don't like how it makes your planets feel like giant mines/farms rather than places people live. Reworking it is not out of the question but it'd be a pretty huge investment of time.

I like the planet grid, though these are good points. I certainly wouldn't want it to go entirely, but improvements would be nice.

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


There should be pops that don't fit onto the grid so we can have people fleeing to the colonies to escape their overpopulated urban-hell hives

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Wiz
May 16, 2004



Nap Ghost

Enjoy posted:

There should be pops that don't fit onto the grid so we can have people fleeing to the colonies to escape their overpopulated urban-hell hives

Yeah, that's another issue with it, planets fill up quickly and are full forever.

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