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Should it be legal for other people to assault you if they disagree with you? This poll is closed. |
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183 | 49.06% |
| No |
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190 | 50.94% |
| Total: | 328 votes | ||
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I support the guy who punched Richard Spencer and would still support him unironically if he had murdered Spencer instead. Is that better? AARO posted:You guys are just making up your own rules. Why should anyone listen to you. You have no principles, you just make up your own morality as you go along. Anyway even your bullshit Constitutional law analysis is a joke. There is such a thing as fighting words, even the Supreme Court recognizes this, and calling for the systematic extermination of black people definitely qualifies. Get hosed.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:09
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:i think this might be more productive if we do a thought exercise: what would a modern-day organized uprising of neo-nazis in the united states look like, how would that work/get anywhere It would look like the election we just had.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:09
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AARO posted:You guys are just making up your own rules. Why should anyone listen to you? You have no principles, you just make up your own morality as you go along. the constitution has nothing to do with it, we're not asking the government to hit him.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:09
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Main Paineframe posted:there's no law against that. There are laws against punching people who said things you don't like. It is not legal to punch people except out of necessary self defense.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:10
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After the Constitutional argument went down in flames I'm anxiously waiting for AARO next line of defense. Natural rights maybe? e: Oh no it's the old "It's the law, therefore it's the law" Good one!
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Jan 22, 2017 21:11
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AARO posted:You guys are just making up your own rules. Why should anyone listen to you? You have no principles, you just make up your own morality as you go along. Yes, having a personal moral code is all about making up your own rules. And hopefully you consider the words of others and actually think through them. But it's not at all about just copying what someone else wrote down somewhere.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:11
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Kilroy posted:Yeah I'd love to express my opinion wrt punching Richard Spencer by punching Richard Spencer, alas I will not get that chance to I'm left to post about it on a dead comedy forum instead. No you don't know what you're talking about. quote:Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case based on the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Court held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action". Spencer's statements do not meet the above criteria.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:12
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AARO posted:There are laws against punching people who said things you don't like. It is not legal to punch people except out of necessary self defense. "not legal" is not the same as "not moral". The government could very well arrest someone and charge them with a crime for punching a Nazi, but "punching Nazis is illegal" isn't the same as "punching Nazis is morally wrong".
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Jan 22, 2017 21:12
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AARO posted:There are laws against punching people who said things you don't like. It is not legal to punch people except out of necessary self defense. nobody is claiming that it's legal. we're saying it's moral.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:14
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AARO posted:It is not legal to punch people except out of necessary self defense. Like, you're really full of poo poo here. Boxing is not illegal, and street fighting is legal in many jurisdictions.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:14
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botany posted:nobody is claiming that it's legal. we're saying it's moral. But your morality is completely useless. You just made it up yourself. Who cares about your morality?
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Jan 22, 2017 21:17
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AARO posted:But your morality is completely useless. You just made it up yourself. richard spencer 
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Jan 22, 2017 21:18
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AARO posted:Spencer's statements do not meet the above criteria. Of course now you're saying that punching people is always illegal as well, so thanks for letting the thread know you're full of poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:18
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botany posted:nobody is claiming that it's legal. we're saying it's moral. Not only this, but I'd question the legitimacy of law in a system that is run by white supremacists. And to a much larger extent the legitimacy of the legal and justice system in the US where, people with monetary power or privilege can get away with almost anything, while black people are legally(this is key here, because laws and legality has no place in saying what is right or wrong) killed by police officers on an almost daily basis. AARO posted:But your morality is completely useless. You just made it up yourself. Who cares about laws? Some old rich white dudes just made it up themselves.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:20
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AARO posted:But your morality is completely useless. You just made it up yourself. i do. it's all that matters.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:22
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So what you're saying is that sarcasm emboldens you to have stupid opinions? Hypothetically what about punching?
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Jan 22, 2017 21:22
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I'm surprised aryan-ro doesnt have a nazi avatar yet
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Jan 22, 2017 21:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:i do. it's all that matters. Well, thanks for being honest.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:28
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oh you didn't understand. i'm also correct.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:38
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Kilroy posted:wrong-o Also in others it's not legal to throw punches back if someone attacks you
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Jan 22, 2017 21:38
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If you want to punch nazis, go for it, of course that is crate blanc for you to get your poo poo pushed in when you punch the wrong person. Also to legally get your rear end-beat when you get arrested.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:41
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there's not a single alt righter whose rear end i could not whup.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:43
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Also in others it's not legal to throw punches back if someone attacks you Only in garbage jurisdictions.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:48
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People laud the peaceful transfer of power in the United States but while it is peaceful there has never been a meaningful transfer of power. The racist, classistist establishment has controlled the country from day 1. The Russians learned what happens when you try to work with Nazis. They also figured out how to fix Nazis.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:55
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i would think in most jurisdictions you are allowed to defend yourself in a fight.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:55
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AARO posted:But your morality is completely useless. You just made it up yourself. Perhaps another example would help you understand. In many parts of Florida it is illegal to feed homeless people. So the people who go out and feed the homeless get arrested for breaking the law, while also doing the morally correct thing.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:55
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on the left posted:I for one look forward to an America where certain minority groups are OK to murder with a speech to the jury about jury nullification and a wink and a nod. A poster stupid enough to compare punching Nazis to attacking minorities. Also I don't think you watch the news enough. People already can attack minorities and get acquitted by juries in America. Fair is fair for attacking fascists too.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:59
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In the USA in the 1950's a man who openly said he was gay could very easily get punched in the face by any white Christian male onlooker. Even it it wasn't legal to punch this man for his mere act of saying he was gay, I'm sure large parts of 1950's America would have said the assault was moral. Richard Spencer is a disgusting rear end in a top hat and I hope he dies. However, I don't think we should normalize punching people for mere speech. I think it sets a dangerous precedent. We need to be a people who values free thought so much that we tolerate even the most abhorrent despicable speech of assholes.
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Jan 22, 2017 21:59
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Regarding legality, I don't think the old "Fighting Words" decisions were ever overturned. I know they were narrowed, but I'd be interested to see whether Nazism would fall under "Fighting Words". With a Trump appointee on the SC, I'm guessing "Nazism" will be considered protected speech.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:02
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lol if you think it wouldn't have been legal to punch the guy for being gay in the 50s. Do you not realize why the Matthew Shepard act was only passed in the 90s? Also your false equivalence is bad and you should feel bad. You're basically at the level of the nice people who just shut up and look the other way when poo poo goes bad, which makes you scum.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:03
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AARO posted:I think it sets a dangerous precedent. Groovelord Neato posted:[gazing upon aged pictures of cattle cars filled with bodies, mass graves filled with women and children, and black bodies swinging in the summer breeze]
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Jan 22, 2017 22:03
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on the left posted:I for one look forward to an America where certain minority groups are OK to murder with a speech to the jury about jury nullification and a wink and a nod. AARO posted:In the USA in the 1950's a man who openly said he was gay could very easily get punched in the face by any white Christian male onlooker. Even it it wasn't legal to punch this man for his mere act of saying he was gay, I'm sure large parts of 1950's America would have said the assault was moral. sigh okay No. No we should not do that. The issue with Nazism is that it is a philosophy anchored in hatred. There is nothing to talk about because Nazis aren't in it for the talking. Talking is a means to an end, either to get into a fight or to gain power. The only way to deal with Nazis is to shame and marginalize them until finally introspection kicks in, because that's the only way they'll ever stop being Nazis. When you tolerate Nazi intolerance, you are actually enabling these people. That's not me btw, that's how the FBI talks about how hate groups operate. Now granted they don't advocate punching Nazis in the face, but they don't explicitly say you can't punch Nazis in the face so...
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Jan 22, 2017 22:04
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AARO posted:You guys are just making up your own rules. Why should anyone listen to you? You have no principles, you just make up your own morality as you go along. The law isn't morality.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:07
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AARO posted:You guys are just making up your own rules. Why should anyone listen to you? You have no principles, you just make up your own morality as you go along. He organizes meetings and holds speeches to mobilize other neo-nazis to spread their ideology and support politicians and other influential figures willing to enact policy in line with their harmful beliefs. GOP now has all 3 branches and is preparing a wave of legislation that will lead to the death and suffering of countless people who do not have the power to fight back. Marginalized people are facing a govt actively hostile to their rights, and normalized openly genocidal rhetoric is a direct threat to their safety. His words have consequences, and getting punched in the face should be the least of his concerns. It's very easy to criticize a person's methods when you are safe and the future is not as uncertain for you. If you expect people to meekly accept their death and ignore unconcealed promises that you and everyone like you will be erased then you do not know what it is like to feel true fear, that is why it must be taught to fascists.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:08
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WillyTheNewGuy posted:Perhaps another example would help you understand. In many parts of Florida it is illegal to feed homeless people. So the people who go out and feed the homeless get arrested for breaking the law, while also doing the morally correct thing. But you agree that is a bad law correct? That situation is very different from this one in that way. In order for there to be more continuity in the analogy you would need to be arguing that it should be legal to punch people for speech, which many posters itt have said they are not doing. Can you give me an example of something that should be illegal while it is also moral to break that law?
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Jan 22, 2017 22:11
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AARO posted:Can you give me an example of something that should be illegal while it is also moral to break that law? punching nazis
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Jan 22, 2017 22:13
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botany posted:punching nazis Hey there, you went right for it. Not actually surprised it was you.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:16
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AARO posted:Hey there, you went right for it. Not actually surprised it was you. When they're right, they're right 
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Jan 22, 2017 22:19
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Only in garbage jurisdictions. You're not wrong
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Jan 22, 2017 22:21
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whoa, another thread questioning if it's ok to "bash the fash"? the answer is quite obviously yes! always bash a fash as for the people saying "you just gave him a stage now he's more powerful than ever  ." he's being mocked and so is his idiot ideology.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:22
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