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Should it be legal for other people to assault you if they disagree with you? This poll is closed. |
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183 | 49.06% |
| No |
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190 | 50.94% |
| Total: | 328 votes | ||
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Calls for ethnic cleansing should have serious consequences. Racists should be scared. The resistance in WWII engaged in extreme illegal and unethical behavior that would make the average liberal today blanch and it turns out that's what's effective at combating fascists. The ones who insisted on fighting with words and a call to morals watched their countries get swept up in the turmoil by the nazis they failed to oppose. Whether it should be legal is not what should be focused on in this scenario, Spencer is afraid now, you will never convince me that's not loving worth it.
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Jan 22, 2017 19:22
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:like is this the kind of thing that can be done by a few committed nazis working in secret who found out about the nazi thing from a joseph spencer (wait is his first name joseph) article, or would it take a hundred thousand nazis with a secret plan to first install and then control a leader they can count on to do their bidding You know they're already in the white house, right? That Trump was endorsed by the KKK before the election? That his speech was written by a white supremacist anti-semite who is also one of his closest aides? That the "america first" slogan was used in WWII to discourage retaliation against the nazis?
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Jan 22, 2017 20:45
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AARO posted:You guys are just making up your own rules. Why should anyone listen to you? You have no principles, you just make up your own morality as you go along. He organizes meetings and holds speeches to mobilize other neo-nazis to spread their ideology and support politicians and other influential figures willing to enact policy in line with their harmful beliefs. GOP now has all 3 branches and is preparing a wave of legislation that will lead to the death and suffering of countless people who do not have the power to fight back. Marginalized people are facing a govt actively hostile to their rights, and normalized openly genocidal rhetoric is a direct threat to their safety. His words have consequences, and getting punched in the face should be the least of his concerns. It's very easy to criticize a person's methods when you are safe and the future is not as uncertain for you. If you expect people to meekly accept their death and ignore unconcealed promises that you and everyone like you will be erased then you do not know what it is like to feel true fear, that is why it must be taught to fascists.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:08
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AARO posted:Nobody should be punched for mere speech, no matter how much you dislike it. I would say calls for ethnic cleansing are much more than mere speech especially in a society that's already oppressive to minorities, not sure what's so hard to get about this.
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Jan 22, 2017 22:38
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AARO posted:You think Spencer's words are likely to incite or produce such action immanently? Yes, and anyone who recruits others into an ideology promoting genocide and racial superiority paves the way for violent hate crimes like church shootings. Maybe you've heard this quote from Abraham loving Lincoln: quote:Must I shoot a simple-minded soldier boy who deserts, while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induces him to desert?
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Jan 22, 2017 22:58
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:yeah i was going to make another post about this but the popehat article about it pretty much summarized my feelings on the issue Just so you know we've seen these exact arguments before during the civil rights movement where it was used to discourage the methods being used by activists because they were considered "too radical". It's a tactic that has historically been used by moderates to shut down pushes towards progress because they fear social unrest and expect marginalized people to wait out their oppression and murder or switch to methods they're more comfortable with even if it's ineffective. This argument supposes that those in power will follow an agreed moral code when they've already demonstrated they have no interest in doing so, if you need any more evidence see how Democrats continue to lose positions and authority despite having far more popular support as they wait for the GOP to suddenly play fair, meanwhile their constituents lose more and more rights.
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Jan 22, 2017 23:20
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Jan 22, 2017 23:41
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Did you know it was illegal to help slaves escape? didn't you know? if you help slaves escape it sets a precedent for stealing property, then you're embracing the norm of a lawless society. geez people, there's a reason we have these social and legal norms. <  >
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Jan 23, 2017 01:20
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AARO posted:Did you know if you post a bunch of straw man arguments you're a loving idiot? Did you know modern events have a historical context? It's a secret, don't tell anyone.
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Jan 23, 2017 01:34
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:it's your fault for assuming people wanted to discuss the issue rather than live out violent fantasies Hi, quick question, did you see the cartoon I posted earlier in the thread? Which side do you think you would have been on when that came out?
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Jan 23, 2017 01:41
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Okay, but have you seen it now? Here, I'll quote it for you if you're having trouble finding it. Which side do you think you would have agreed with if you had been around when it came out? Pittsburgh Lambic posted:i mean i don't like nazis but i like violence even less, and posters in the thread got kinda weird and tinfoil-ish about trump and the impending trump disasters, so it all just seems kind of silly from outsider's perspective to see people advocating fisticuffs and rebellion against the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy or w/e i'm supposed to call it Hate crimes spiked after Trump's election. His vice president supports conversion therapy for gay kids. His pick for chief strategist has a history of antisemitism and runs a news site dedicated to the very ideals espoused by neo-nazis and his pick for attorney general literally lost his job because he was too openly racist in the '80s and attacking voting rights of minorities. And I'm going to remind you that you seemed surprised he was endorsed by the KKK and thought Spencer was an obscure figure rather than someone with several interviews in high profile media outlets and also the guy who coined the term "alt-right". Perhaps you should consider reading up on things more before taking a definitive stance. yellowyams fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 02:18
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:idk i'd probably find something else to do; i've never gotten worked up enough about politics to march about anything Is that your response? Should MLK and other civil rights activists have chilled out until things got better? When do you think that would have happened?
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Jan 23, 2017 02:36
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:no see we're back in the civil rights era and a black dude is being accused of rape, castrated, hanged and burned alive literally every day and you need to be up in arms about this Hi, please answer this: yellowyams posted:Is that your response? Should MLK and other civil rights activists have chilled out until things got better? When do you think that would have happened?
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Jan 23, 2017 02:48
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:i can't answer that because i'm not mlk, nor a civil rights activist, nor was i alive during that era Please explain how that leaves you unable to answer. Is history closed off from analysis once it passes? Should we get rid of history classes because there's nothing to learn from them?
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Jan 23, 2017 02:51
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:because i can't say what people whom i've never met, in an era that has come and gone, should or should not have done and it's kind of weird to lose my head up hypotheticals You do not have to be part of history to examine it. The frustration is mutual because you seem unfamiliar with the subjects you are discussing but pass judgement regardless. This is a very personal topic for many people because it involves their lives and safety. If your life is comfortable enough right now that you don't see the urgency or danger you see others expressing then please consider that there are some who spend every day with these threats hanging over their head and they're afraid and frustrated when people who don't encounter it assume that means it doesn't exist and actively impede their attempts to escape the minefield no one will acknowledge they're in. I want you to know that I once had very similar stances to yours and felt like violence was never worth it and that sacrificing your morals for any cause no matter how great just made you a hypocrite. This changed when I tried to apply these ethics in real life and encountered a brick wall. I am not advocating violence as the answer to everything, but it is a necessary evil in certain situations and history has proved this. The system is not always fair and during those times you cannot be fair if you want to accomplish anything.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:16
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Not a Step posted:Look, I just want to be able to punch people. Preferably with no consequences. If you grant me this power I promise to only punch bad people. I will be the one who determines what constitutes good and bad, but don't worry, I consider myself a good person and will only make good decisions. Okay, you can start with people who call for ethnic cleansing of minorities.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:16
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Trabisnikof posted:What about people who claim some Americans are "subhuman"? Are those people Nazis? If they are calling for violence towards marginalized groups so the white race can stay on top then yeah, I'd say that's pretty punch-worthy.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:22
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wait a sec, guys, have we ever stopped to think that not tolerating intolerant people makes us the intolerant people?! 
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Jan 23, 2017 04:32
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Trabisnikof posted:Does voting in favor of Trump's nominees make someone enough of a nazi to make punching them good? They need to be publicly criticized and inundated by calls to their office from constituents to hold them accountable in their decisions until they can be voted out in their next election and replaced by a politician who doesn't throw so many marginalized people under the bus because that is the most effective way to handle lovely politicians, just like the most effective way to dissuade neo-nazis advocating genocide from gaining influence is to make them too scared to openly share their rhetoric in public like it's normal as we can learn from examining past approaches to hate groups. Hope that helped. 
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Jan 23, 2017 05:04
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technology is pretty crazy these days, i hear you can just google a word and it will tell you what it is. this is the future, boys, where we're going we don't need roads. 
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Jan 23, 2017 07:56
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surely the laws will protect us, that worked so well before
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Jan 23, 2017 23:13
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someone who saves a woman from going through the traumatic experience of childbirth against her will even if she can't afford it or was raped is just like a nazi when u think about it
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Jan 24, 2017 00:01
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Greetings fellow fash bashers, I have found a haven of people on twitter (#killallwhitemen, #killwhirey) advocating for the death of people based on skin color and sexuality, would you care for joining me for some good old fashion Vigilante Justice? hmmm, intriguing but do these people already have a foothold in the government and a history of ascending to power despite holding unpopular views and enacting actual large-scale genocide?
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Jan 24, 2017 00:26
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Wow, it's like the last 8 years never happened. yeah, who could forget all that ethnic cleansing of white americans
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Jan 24, 2017 00:32
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Don't you understand? We can't give them a platform for their death-cult. Best to punch them early and often imo. Yes, that is in fact what we learned from WWII. You know, the thing that happened when words and laws and calls to reason turned out to not be enough.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:38
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Agreed. call me when someone on the presidential cabinet shares his views
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Jan 24, 2017 00:43
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:drat when did "liberals" start getting so gun-shy. Always looking for an excuse NOT to punch Nazis, smdh yes because nazis are all about killing the people who already hold all the power
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Jan 24, 2017 00:46
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Condiv posted:mods, please rename this thread to "nazi lives matter"
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Jan 24, 2017 00:51
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white ppl are in danger, spread the word
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Jan 24, 2017 00:56
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Senor P. posted:See a Nazi? Say "Hey pal you're full of poo poo." Do not go down the road of blood fueds, assaults and violence. This is very much what they did before WWII broke out, and it very much ended with blood fueds, assaults and violence anyway with a dash of genocide.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:48
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