|
Should it be legal for other people to assault you if they disagree with you? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Yes |
|
183 | 49.06% |
| No |
|
190 | 50.94% |
| Total: | 328 votes | ||
|
i like that most of the goons in favor of assaulting richard spencer are afraid to express that opinion in any way other than whiny sarcasm
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
serioustalk: i had no idea who richard spencer was until he got punched in the face, now suddenly i'm seeing him everywhere and he has a platform to play victim on and be listened to, because he got punched in the face i suspect i'm not the only person who learned about richard spencer this way what i'm saying is that punching people because you don't like their opinions seems pretty dumb and counterproductive, moral arguments notwithstanding
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:17
|
|
|
like be smart about it and smash a pie in his face instead of just using your fist, ffs
Pittsburgh Lambic fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jan 22, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:21
|
|
|
did he do anything at those interviews except look like a gross fuckin nazi who shouldn't be listened to
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:25
|
|
|
cool, he got listened to by people who think that opinions are the same as actions idg the threat
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:27
|
|
|
well i mean if they think that lives are the same as opinions then i'm not sure they can comprehend news articles well enough to understand anything anyway
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:33
|
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:It must sting to see meme magic work against him people aren't problems, yo maybe their opinions are lovely but opinions aren't problems either unless those opinions get acted on in a harmful way, then those actions do get pretty punchworthy no one's listened to a spencer interview and immediately gone and thrown all their jewish neighbors in a concentration camp afaik, could be wrong though, things can get pretty fuckin weird in the rednecky parts of the 'states
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
one is killing a shitload of people and one is making a shitload of posts on somethingawful
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:43
|
|
|
i'd hope not, because if people with bad opinions went away to gulags then somethingawful wouldn't have anybody to make fun of, except people in gulags, and that gets old after awhile
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 18:47
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:I'm sorry you haven't been paying attention to the news. He had a huge article on NYT not too long ago. yeah i don't read the ny times, like most people, and i suspect i didn't see the article linked or tweeted or anything because drawing attention to articles written by nazis is considered kinda weird and bad
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
like maybe not weird enough to punch someone over but weird enough to say "dude stop retweeting that nazi poo poo"
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:Really? cool, i admit i've been a bit lost as to what news sites to follow lately, was reading cnn for awhile and it seemed to be nothing but "Trump tweets a thing" 24/7 might start following the new york times if it's considered trustworthy Higsian posted:Nazism is harmful. There's no non-harmful way to put nazism into action. Some opinions, like nazism, are dangerous and harmful on their own and you shouldn't just stand around going "well they haven't actually carried out their horrific ideals yet." Try to think of nazism as essentially conspiracy to commit genocide. it might be that i don't quite understand neo-naziism the same way as naziism, which has a horrible, twisted logic that once managed to convince people but i don't see it as capable of doing anymore, particularly not in the us having read about naziism a bit, my own opinion of it is that its ideas such as "germans are the ubermensch" and "mass collectivization and nationalization of the population and erasure of the individual" were once new and untested and thus managed to persuade a shitton of people to do a shitton of horrible things, but those ideas lack the mass appeal they once had i don't know what neo-naziism uses to spackle over naziism's shittiest and most obviously hosed ideas, and should maybe read about it to figure out what makes it so dangerous 
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 19:20
|
|
|
Higsian posted:Well the main difference between nazism and neo-nazism is the neo kind don't care so much about the economic parts of nazism and just jump straight to the white supremacy and kill all the untermenschen parts. cool, that's a good summary of it to start on the issue, i suppose, comes down to the question of how many people are susceptible to taking up and acting harmfully upon white supremacist ideas if exposed to those ideas and that question is one i'll have to think about
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:All you need is one rear end in a top hat true believer and a bunch of other gullible assholes good at following orders. the problem i have here is that if one true believer is all it takes to make an idea too dangerous to be allowed into the public, questions get raised about an assload of ideas besides basic white supremacy basically every religion ever, for instance, and only particularly weird and fat people think religion is worth punching over
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
i saw a video of one of those people pouring hot oil all over his dick once
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:01
|
|
|
AARO posted:Guys like Spencer are going to start arming themselves in public and someone is going to end up getting shot. discharging a firearm in washington dc under any circumstance sounds like a great way to get capped by a police sniper
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:There are vanishingly few religions that openly advocate genocide these days. I mean I'm sure there's a couple and a pedantically literalist reading of any major religious text could probably turn up a few calls for ethnic cleansing, but come the gently caress on. If somebody's out there being politely indulged by the mainstream media while they try and put a respectful gloss on the wholesale murder of blacks, jews, gays and the like while appropriating the symbols of one of the most brutally efficient genocidal regimes in history I reckon a punch to the face is the bare minimum of what they're owed. genocide's a hell of a lot more difficult to pull off than just murdering some poor fucker, like in order to start a right and proper genocide of some county of the united states you'll need thousands of thoroughly indoctrinated neo-nazis working surreptitiously whereas to murder some dude, or a bunch of dudes, you just need some radicalized rear end in a top hat who screams Deus Vult and has a gun and/or truck, and that happens all the time as opposed to nazi killings, which at least to my knowledge aren't as common as they used to be granted, it's funner to punch out nazis than christians, i'll give you that
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:14
|
|
|
yeah we tried to genocide platte county the other day but not everyone was committed enough so we just threw all our razor wire and zyklon b back in the pickup and went home
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
i think this might be more productive if we do a thought exercise: what would a modern-day organized uprising of neo-nazis in the united states look like, how would that work/get anywhere
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
now i'm just confused, are you talking about neonazis later in history or just nazi nazis doing their nazi thing in the twenties and thirties
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:Less glibly, American nazis would probably commit their pogroms by proxy through giving blanket support to agents of state power that discriminate against and violently attack minority groups with relative impunity as a matter of course. like is this the kind of thing that can be done by a few committed nazis working in secret who found out about the nazi thing from a joseph spencer (wait is his first name joseph) article, or would it take a hundred thousand nazis with a secret plan to first install and then control a leader they can count on to do their bidding
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
nice one botany posted:probably by getting a candidate elected that already has ties to the neo-nazi movement, and then working to make sure that person's cabinet / advisors are all members of the movement. once you have that initial influence you pass laws that suppress dissent and make it harder for political opponents to get elected. slowly, step by step, you then fill elected offices with movement members. then you wait for a catastrophic event or if necessary engineer one and use that to pass state of emergency laws that make sure power is fully in your hands. and is this possibility proximate enough to justify reflexive violence against people expressing neo-nazi ideas now, or is the violence happening simply reflexively because it's fun and acceptable to punch a nazi
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:33
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:Actually I was mostly referring to the system of white supremacy that already exists, in which police unaccountably and disproportionately murder and imprison black people and have a great deal of support from the general populace in doing so. So, you know, since the policy of state terror and repression is already in place all the nazis have to do is work to intensify it by participating in grass roots right wing politics. And doing media interviews to give it a presentable face. see, whether or not our system is innately white supremacist/controlled by white supremacists is somewhat contested, and not something i know enough about to have a debatable opinion on i'm afraid we're starting to reach an impasse, though discussing this sort of thing is enjoyable
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:40
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:It's not really hard to get a lot of influence in local or regional government, and one of Trump's senior advisors is a white supremacist. how many steps removed is it from expressing an opinion to someone hearing and adopting that opinion to becoming influential in a government position, and how many more steps is it from there to enacting or reinforcing potentially white supremacist or genocidal policies yellowyams posted:You know they're already in the white house, right? That Trump was endorsed by the KKK before the election? That his speech was written by a white supremacist anti-semite who is also one of his closest aides? That the "america first" slogan was used in WWII to discourage retaliation against the nazis? this is getting a bit weird
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
well that got weird af, a blog i read is now arguing that punching nazis and laughing about punching nazis will lead to minorities getting violenced by police more it does seem like a bit of a stretch, though
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
yeah i was going to make another post about this but the popehat article about it pretty much summarized my feelings on the issue https://www.popehat.com/2017/01/21/on-punching-nazis/ quote:3. We have social and legal norms, including "don't punch people because their speech is evil, and don't punish them legally." Applying those norms is not a judgment that the speech in question is valuable, or decent, or morally acceptable. We apply the norms out of a recognition of human frailty — because the humanity that will be deciding whom to punch and whom to prosecute is the same humanity that produced the Nazis in the first place, and has a well-established record of making really terrible decisions. You — the bien-pensant reader, confident that sensible punchers and prosecutors can sort out Nazis from the not-Nazis — will likely not be doing the punching or prosecuting. The punching and prosecuting will be done by a rogue's gallery of vicious idiots, including people who think that Black Lives Matter should be indicted under RICO and that it's funny to send women death threats if they write a column you don't like. it goes on and on like this Pittsburgh Lambic fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 22, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 22:53
|
|
|
Condiv posted:if my eyes rolled any harder from that quote they'd fall out of their sockets. he rails pretty hard and constantly about police brutality and non-accountability, yeah, and his stance on BLM is pretty neutral; my understanding is he was using BLM as one example of unintended consequences to nazipunching
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:Are you saying that being a Nazi is an intrinsic and inseparable aspect of a person's identity? That they have no choice in the matter and will simply always be Nazis? how's the racist tree thing work, is that like when you cut down the tree, dig up the stump, burn all the seeds, dig out a twelve-foot pit where the stump once stood and dump all the dirt into a blast furnace, then salt an ever-widening ring of soil around where the tree once stood in a kind of paranoid weekly ceremony until the county tells you to stop before you destroy every piece of property in the area because they're nazi sympathizers who don't understand
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2017 23:32
|
|
|
AARO posted:All the arguments I have presented in this thread are iron clad and no one has even made a serious attempt to refute a single thing I've said. it's your fault for assuming people wanted to discuss the issue rather than live out violent fantasies it makes more sense if you think of debate & discussion as being like dungeons & dragons except with nazis instead of orcs
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2017 01:37
|
|
|
yellowyams posted:Hi, quick question, did you see the cartoon I posted earlier in the thread? Which side do you think you would have been on when that came out? nope i mean i don't like nazis but i like violence even less, and posters in the thread got kinda weird and tinfoil-ish about trump and the impending trump disasters, so it all just seems kind of silly from outsider's perspective to see people advocating fisticuffs and rebellion against the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy or w/e i'm supposed to call it
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2017 01:53
|
|
|
yellowyams posted:Okay, but have you seen it now? Here, I'll quote it for you if you're having trouble finding it. idk i'd probably find something else to do; i've never gotten worked up enough about politics to march about anything i mean, i'm a little leery of The Greatening but i'm not panicking about it either, not calling it an emergency or running around screaming and from the looks of things most of the country isn't dissolving into chaos about trump just yet either sometimes it helps to just chill out
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
AARO posted:Do you doubt the possibility of coming up with a hypothetical situation in which the one who is assaulted is beaten merely for speech and also blameless? no see we're back in the civil rights era and a black dude is being accused of rape, castrated, hanged and burned alive literally every day and you need to be up in arms about this
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2017 02:47
|
|
|
i can't answer that because i'm not mlk, nor a civil rights activist, nor was i alive during that era
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2017 02:49
|
|
|
yellowyams posted:Please explain how that leaves you unable to answer. Is history closed off from analysis once it passes? Should we get rid of history classes because there's nothing to learn from them? because i can't say what people whom i've never met, in an era that has come and gone, should or should not have done and it's kind of weird to lose my head up hypotheticals admittedly my willingness to answer these questions is also somewhat hindered by a growing lack of confidence in the ability of the posters in this thread to have an honest discussion about literally anything, for that i apologize
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2017 02:54
|
|
|
Anchor Wanker posted:While we're punching Nazis, Also punch members of any white nationalist organization. screw it, let's turn this entire nation into a free-for-all punch party, anyone we don't agree with deserves violence on the pretext that their opinions might, after 78 pre-requisite factors are fulfilled, lead to their own violence in some kind of nightmare world that i imagine trump will eventually create the earth is in a state of emergency everyone is a violence waiting to happen punch everything Pittsburgh Lambic fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jan 25, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2017 05:23
|
|
|
no no, you don't understand, if you're not literally panicking about trump then you're a genocide supporter
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2017 05:37
|
|
|
maybe you'll get it if i punch you enough times, genocide supporting nazi
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2017 05:38
|
|
|
Rhjamiz posted:Yeah okay dude that's exactly what a nazi does, blows off the threat and acts like it's not serious, everyone punch this guy
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2017 05:42
|
|
|
rudatron posted:Communists are not morally equivalent to nazis. Read Red Army soldier accounts of the liberation of the death camps (Treblinka/Auschwitz) to learn why. All of them lived under communism, yet every single one of them regards what they saw in the nazi camps as almost inconceivable, beyond the pale. if we're talking about this, not everyone in the red army was a communist nor necessarily believed in communism nor was necessarily dyed in the wool enough to believe in poo poo like Eat The Kulaks, as far as i know personally if i was in russia during wwii and saw the germans invading and lebensraum-ing every civilian in sight, even if i hated communism i'd say gently caress it and join the red army because that horseshit has got to end, and i suspect that attitude would be shared by anybody who saw the ss systematically depopulating entire geographic areas
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2017 14:53
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:If you have a problem with punching nazis but are OK with police and military violence, you are a hypocrite and a nazi collaborator and deserve to be punched hello, militaries exist to ensure that violence happens when governments decide that violence needs to happen, not when random idiots on the street decide that violence needs to happen it's why i said i'd join an army, not run around my little russian village looking for nazis to punch it's usually a Good Thing for governments to be the ones in charge of the violence, as long as the governments are acting in the best interest of their constituents, which is debatable in our current day and age i guess but simply put i don't think society is quite hosed enough that i have to take the violencing into my own hands
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2017 15:18
|
|