Call Me Charlie posted:

I'll actually try to serious post.

Do you think it's cool to punch a communist in the face when you see them in public? Or for someone to punch a known anti-war activist for being a traitor to the country? Is a pro-life bomber justified in bombing an abortion clinic because, in their eyes, a baby holocaust is happening? Is Joseph Paul Franklin a heroic figure for shooting and paralyzing known scumbag and pornographer Larry Flynt for showcasing interracial sex in his magazine?

If you answered no to all of those then you can't support somebody assaulting or murdering a nazi for voicing their hosed up views.

That doesn't mean you have to sit back while they attempt to spread their doctrine. You can protest them. You can protest any venue that gives them a platform. You can protest any business that employs them. You can ostracize them. You can get the law involved when they try to make a show of force like those nazis that got arrested for 'terrorizing' in Welcome To Leith. But you can't beat or murder them unless they try to turn their hateful speech into action.

And honestly if you want to otherize literal neo-nazis and genocide advocates like Richard Spencer, you should stop trying to conflate them with Trump and the GOP.

(I saw this comic book writer get quoted in The New York Times so maybe his word will carry more weight than mine.

https://twitter.com/nickspencer/status/822591535158034432
https://twitter.com/nickspencer/status/822625805549367296
https://twitter.com/nickspencer/status/822627812800692224
https://twitter.com/nickspencer/status/822668442604015616
https://twitter.com/nickspencer/status/822972172666695681 )

ate poo poo on live tv posted:

Is it permissible to use my Assault Rifle on "the fash?" Asking for a friend.

ate poo poo on live tv posted:

For some reason the democrats keep wanting to ban my assault rifle. Perhaps they are "fash apologia"? So who here has been "bashing" prominent government officials?

my dad posted:

Anchor Wanker posted:

While we're punching Nazis, Also punch members of any white nationalist organization.

Also the Alt-right in general. It is morally good to punch almost all of these people. hth

FreeKillB posted:

I mean their beliefs are alarming, so .... yes?

Maybe I should give an example to note that despite many efforts following this reasoning will not lead to simple 'Nazi' and 'not-a-Nazi' boxes as a coherent moral test to determine whom is to be denied the basic human right of bodily security. If your argument is that American Nazi Party rhetorical calls for ethnic cleansing justifies facepunching, then we should extend the same to all groups advocating for ethnic cleansing.

I give the example of Hizb ut-Tahrir, a Islamist group calling for a reestablishment of the caliphate. They don't overtly call for violent acts right now, in part because they believe that such violence must be justified by a call to jihad from a legitimate Islamic authority. They aren't banned in the US, but are banned in many Arab countries and in Germany. In Australia, Tony Abbott's government attempted to ban them on charges of 'advocating genocide'. From the wikipedia page:

"In the 1990s, Ata Abu Rashta, (HT’s current global leader and former spokesman), proclaimed that "peaceful relations with the Jews" or settling "for only part of Palestine" (such as the post 1967 territory of the West Bank and Gaza) is "prohibited by Islamic Law". "None of the Jews in Palestine who arrived after the destruction of the Ottoman Empire have the right to remain there. The Islamic legal rule requires that those of whom are capable of fighting be killed until none survive".[272] Later statements by HT spokespersons also emphasize the importance of Islamic control of every bit of Palestine (Taji Mustafa in 2008[107][273]) and rejecting negotiation in favor of military Jihad (Imran Wahid, January 2009[274][275])"

My reading of this is as clear-cut a case of advocating ethnic cleansing as you can get. Under the proposed moral test, it would be cool and good for conservatives to go around sucker punch members of HT.

FreeKillB posted:

The Republican Party may not be great friends of democracy, but they're not going around saying that Democrats should be afraid to say Democratic things in mixed company for fear of being assaulted. (e: I'm well aware and disturbed by Trump's calls for violence against protestors at his rallies. As bad as that is, it's not nearly so broad as this.)

What you described as your goal is a terrorized society. Maybe the tyranny of the mob is preferable to other types of tyranny, but what you're saying is anthetical to an free and open society under any reasonable reading.

Keeshhound posted:

In other words, "I'm perfectly happy living in a authoritarian society, as long as they're my type of authoritarians." No thanks.

Shbobdb posted:

Counterpoint: Republicans calling anyone to the left of the John Birch Society is anti-American traitors seems to have paid dividends. You can't shake hands with a clenched fist. But you can punch back.

Shbobdb posted:

This but unironically.



There should be a statue of John Brown on the town square of every town and in the capitol of every city.

Keeshhound posted:

I missed this earlier, but now I have to ask; are you saying that because it has failed (in your assessment) to check the growth of undesirable elements, liberal democracy has failed? Perhaps it is even "obsolete"?

Keeshhound posted:

Uh-huh. And I suppose given your endorsement of authoritarian regimes, you're in favor of one party government. I could keep asking you leading questions, but it's pretty obvious you're either playing along, or have absolutely no idea that you're quacking and waddling down main street, so I suppose the only proper thing would be to ask, "Are you aware that you are a duck, or are you pretending to be one for some as of yet unseen purpose?"

Keeshhound posted:

It actually is, but if you'd like to insist otherwise, would you mind composing an argument to that effect instead of just calling me a nazi for disagreeing with you? Because I'd love to be convinced to see things your way; it seems like a much simpler, and less stressful way to view the world.

Calibanibal posted:

PLEASe do not punch nazis as i am deathly afraid of punches!!! thank you!!!

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

i went over that before man, the world and ~the culture~ changed at least in my view

basically the way i see it is people are still lovely but less lovely than they used to be, like violently lovely, in the grand scheme of things