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wtf is everyone even yelling about? Whether cops stop right-wing violence or not? Because the rather strict answer is "sometimes"
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Jan 3, 2021 00:03
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 18:42 |
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"the cops aren't on the proud boys side because the cops are on the side of the state" isn't really a take i thought would be controversial in c-spam but here we are
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Jan 3, 2021 00:04
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kitten emergency posted:yeah it's me, i'm the dumb one because i can do things like "read" and "have a memory of the past thirty years or so of american history" ok yeah I'm sure the cops have everything under control, none of these plots ever succeed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020 
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Jan 3, 2021 00:05
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kitten emergency posted:turn your monitor on! lol you're coming into the alt-right thread in cspam and telling us to trust the cops to handle the proud boys and you think i'm the dumb motherfucker
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Jan 3, 2021 00:05
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don't worry everybody THE COPS are going to take care of everything e: looking forward to the TEEHEE I WAS TROLLING LOOK AT HOW OWNED U ARE posts
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Jan 3, 2021 00:06
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Stop fighting. Nobody is on the cop's side. We are having a general discussion as to the relationship between white-wing violence and police enforcement. Chill the gently caress down. And I think that relationship can be best described as "parasocial", in that the PBs are cop cheerleaders from afar finally meeting their heroes. *SPOILER ALERT* Never meet your heroes.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:07
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Azathoth posted:you're coming into the alt-right thread in cspam and telling us to trust the cops and you think i'm the dumb motherfucker so your alternate theory is that the feds infiltrated the MI militia and then got them to escalate because they actually wanted to kidnap whitmer and blow up a bridge but then turned themselves in for... reasons...? it makes a lot more sense if you assume the cops are infiltrating and escalating in order to provide more cover to crack down on anyone that opposes the state rather than that it's some sort of 12-d chess maneuver
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Jan 3, 2021 00:08
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this isn't really the thread for it and i can't be bothered starting a new one but is anyone else surprised at the lack of eco-terrorism? like climate change is going to completely gently caress us and you'd think people might be out their blowing fossil fuel stuff up or killing fossil fuel executives especially in america where getting a gun is easy
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Jan 3, 2021 00:13
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Jose posted:this isn't really the thread for it and i can't be bothered starting a new one but is anyone else surprised at the lack of eco-terrorism? like climate change is going to completely gently caress us and you'd think people might be out their blowing fossil fuel stuff up or killing fossil fuel executives especially in america where getting a gun is easy i'm rather surprised by it tbqh. i expect it'll tick up in the next decade
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Jan 3, 2021 00:15
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kitten emergency posted:so your alternate theory is that the feds infiltrated the MI militia and then got them to escalate because they actually wanted to kidnap whitmer and blow up a bridge but then turned themselves in for... reasons...? cops infiltrating and escalating right wing groups doesn't mean that right wing gangs are not also a threat on their own, as you asserted about the proud boys (which is how all this got started, in case you forgot). that they infiltrate and take down some groups does not also mean that they can be trusted to stop right wing violence
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Jan 3, 2021 00:15
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my big problem with this nerd is he said antifa aren't good when they are.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:17
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in case you forgot what you said:kitten emergency posted:if antifa just stopped loving showing up or made sure there were no targets for them, then they'd get taken off the streets by cops or peter out
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Jan 3, 2021 00:18
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Jose posted:this isn't really the thread for it and i can't be bothered starting a new one but is anyone else surprised at the lack of eco-terrorism? like climate change is going to completely gently caress us and you'd think people might be out their blowing fossil fuel stuff up or killing fossil fuel executives especially in america where getting a gun is easy The left wing is suppressed by a great variety of methods while the right wing is encouraged. Political violence in response to climate change will be limited to paramilitary executions of immigrants, as has been happening since the Obama years, while most Americans will be satisfied by the concentration camps and sanctioned police murders already taking place.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:19
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Jose posted:this isn't really the thread for it and i can't be bothered starting a new one but is anyone else surprised at the lack of eco-terrorism? like climate change is going to completely gently caress us and you'd think people might be out their blowing fossil fuel stuff up or killing fossil fuel executives especially in america where getting a gun is easy eco “terrorism” at least on the west coast pulls from the same population as the anarchist set currently occupied elsewhere. organized eco action right now is mostly passive things like sit ins or at most tree staking from people who have more to lose than the kids in black
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Jan 3, 2021 00:19
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"the cops clearly oppose the right wing terror groups" except when they're literal members of them, which as it turns out is pretty often "the cops will stop any bad stuff from happening" except when they don't, which is also pretty often
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Jan 3, 2021 00:21
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Mr. Sharps posted:eco “terrorism” at least on the west coast pulls from the same population as the anarchist set currently occupied elsewhere. organized eco action right now is mostly passive things like sit ins or at most tree staking from people who have more to lose than the kids in black There's organized action going on in Minnesota to stop the expansion of Enbridge Line 3, which our Dem governor just rammed through, though as you say, it's been "passive" so far in that they haven't taken to literally destroying the heavy machinery necessary for the project. I expect that we'll see more and more direct action against projects like this in the coming decade.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:24
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Azathoth posted:in case you forgot what you said: yeah, and for the most part i think that's still accurate? i think it's worth pointing out that i'm not grouping all left or liberal protest under "antifa", i think it's good to counter-protest the dumbasses when they show up because if nothing else it helps drain cop budgets. but there's a vocal minority of people that want to start poo poo, and i think escalating street fights isn't really that useful. for the most part though, i think the proud boys will peter out due to infighting. felony convictions aren't really great if you're trying to be a successwin business guy. /shrug
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Jan 3, 2021 00:25
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kitten emergency posted:for the most part though, i think the proud boys will peter out due to infighting. felony convictions aren't really great if you're trying to be a successwin business guy. /shrug kind of like how the Klan stopped existing from 1920-1980 since they were scared of going to jail for murder and lynching?
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Jan 3, 2021 00:28
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kitten emergency posted:yeah, and for the most part i think that's still accurate? i think it's worth pointing out that i'm not grouping all left or liberal protest under "antifa", i think it's good to counter-protest the dumbasses when they show up because if nothing else it helps drain cop budgets. but there's a vocal minority of people that want to start poo poo, and i think escalating street fights isn't really that useful. in all seriousness, you should check out the d&d subforum, they really seem like more your kind of people
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Jan 3, 2021 00:28
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kitten emergency posted:yeah, and for the most part i think that's still accurate? i think it's worth pointing out that i'm not grouping all left or liberal protest under "antifa", i think it's good to counter-protest the dumbasses when they show up because if nothing else it helps drain cop budgets. but there's a vocal minority of people that want to start poo poo, and i think escalating street fights isn't really that useful. There were violent right-wing groups before antifa, and there will be violent right-wing groups if antifa were to magically disappear. The cop's job is not to shut down right-wing violence, it's to protect private property. Sometimes those two goals intersect, but that is more the exception than the rule.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:28
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Why are you all trying to convince the dude with "have a memory of the past thirty years or so of american history" that right wing violence is an actual thing? He obviously knows what is going on. Once Trump is out, it will be back to whatever was happening between 1991 and 2016.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:31
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Crow Buddy posted:Why are you all trying to convince the dude with "have a memory of the past thirty years or so of american history" that right wing violence is an actual thing? He obviously knows what is going on. So, no change?
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Jan 3, 2021 00:39
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I’m tired of history. Good thing we can get back to the End of History after that little diversion back to historical time 2008-2020.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:40
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Azathoth posted:it's possible that you're right and that it would peter out if left alone. it's also possible that they eventually reach the point of dragging people out of their houses and killing them, which fash have repeatedly done in the past. in the face of both being possible, the correct response is not "let's take a hands off approach and see how this plays out". nah, d&d is full of joyless idiots that keep clapping for tinkerbell. i just find the consensus here to be really uncritical most of the time. isn't it more likely that "what comes next" isn't going to echo historical fascist movements but will instead be different in some way? the proud boys and various militia groups that sprung up around trump didn't come from nowhere, many of the original leaders or boosters had their roots in older klan groups and wn militia movements before transitioning to "patriot" groups. it's uniquely american in a way that i think third reich comparisons miss. the fundamental difference in my mind is that the klan and historical american militias had strong levels of community support which i don't think the current groups have. there's a big difference between people that post with you and people that you see in your day-to-day life and are part of your city's professional network, or are your neighbors, or whatever. the klan had a lot of specific, material goals in the places they were strong in. i just don't see that level of cohesion around the proud boys. /shrug like i said, i could be entirely off base. i think there's a lot more support to have both left and right wing groups broken up and prosecuted. the nashville dude is a good example - look at the libs braying on twitter "why won't they call this TERRORISM", it reminds me of the right-wing "why wont obama say RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM" poo poo that went on for a while. i think biden's justice department is going to go after both left and right wing groups very, very hard, and i don't think most of the younger people that are part of the PB today are necessarily willing to go to jail.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:43
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civil war 2 is going into the textbooks as Boogaloo. What a dumb timeline
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Jan 3, 2021 00:46
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kitten emergency posted:yeah, and for the most part i think that's still accurate? i think it's worth pointing out that i'm not grouping all left or liberal protest under "antifa", i think it's good to counter-protest the dumbasses when they show up because if nothing else it helps drain cop budgets. but there's a vocal minority of people that want to start poo poo, and i think escalating street fights isn't really that useful. the pushback from antifa types is important specifically because unopposed by people willing and able to do violence, fascists only become more bold. the mistake might be assuming the fasc want a fight. the type of fight fascists like is ten guys kicking you to death. some of them do have the will for a real fight, some of them even harken back to the Alamo mentality of wanting to intentionally martyr themselves, but most will run from a fight there is even the slightest chance they won't win.
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Jan 3, 2021 00:54
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Hodgepodge posted:the pushback from antifa types is important specifically because unopposed by people willing and able to do violence, fascists only become more bold. the mistake might be assuming the fasc want a fight. the type of fight fascists like is ten guys kicking you to death. some of them do have the will for a real fight, some of them even harken back to the Alamo mentality of wanting to intentionally martyr themselves, but most will run from a fight there is even the slightest chance they won't win. Yeah the Proud Boys and guys of their type specifically don't go away if you ignore them, because it isn't just about politics or pushing an agenda for them. They want to feel more powerful than everyone else, and they go about doing that by dragging random people into alleys and beating the poo poo out of them 20:1 while screaming slurs. If you don't specifically force them to gently caress off by showing them they aren't welcome then they'll be committing hate crimes constantly and the police sure as poo poo aren't going to take care of that. That doesn't mean it has to come to violence - though obviously no one in CSPAM will be shedding a tear if a PB catches a beating - but if you don't confront them as a community they will just start making GBS threads up the place until you do.
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Jan 3, 2021 01:02
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kitten emergency posted:nah, d&d is full of joyless idiots that keep clapping for tinkerbell. i just find the consensus here to be really uncritical most of the time. isn't it more likely that "what comes next" isn't going to echo historical fascist movements but will instead be different in some way? the proud boys and various militia groups that sprung up around trump didn't come from nowhere, many of the original leaders or boosters had their roots in older klan groups and wn militia movements before transitioning to "patriot" groups. it's uniquely american in a way that i think third reich comparisons miss. if you don't think that various right wing groups don't have massive community support, and I mean in the communities they live in, not the ones they travel to when they want to start poo poo (again, a classic historical fash tactic, so not sure why you think that everything will be different this time when it continues to be the loving same), then you need to step out of whatever liberal bubble you're living in because i live in a right wing area and that poo poo is loving endemic here. and i don't just mean on social media, the number of far right group bumper stickers I see (3%er seems to be the most popular), hearing people spouting off in restaurants, and (most memorably) when I went to the town hall to yell at my House rep about being a loving white supremacist (I didn't expect it to change anything, but it was surprisingly cathartic to call him out on it). people are 100% behind those far right groups if you don't see that poo poo every day, well then loving bully for you, i'm glad you get to live somewhere at least reasonably sane but that's not the experience a lot of us have. i am telling you that my neighbors would 100% be fine with patriot prayer pulling someone from their house and curb stomping them if they thought they were anteefa, and you suggesting that maybe this poo poo will go away on its own is not just naive, it's loving dangerous.
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Jan 3, 2021 01:03
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I got swarmed/surrounded by 4 BP all by my lonesome. Story checks out
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Jan 3, 2021 01:04
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prior to becoming patriot prayer Joey gibsons group of dipshits were well known in Seattle for driving into town to go gay bashing in Capitol Hill. they stopped doing that when people started bashing them back
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Jan 3, 2021 01:09
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i hesitate to bring it up because this sort of cultural comparison is so loaded, so i'll advise a grain of salt here. that said, i think about the Malaysian concept of "amok" a lot when it comes to right wing violence:quote:Amok originated from the Malaysian/Indonesian word meng-âmuk, which when roughly defined means "to make a furious and desperate charge".[4] According to Malaysian and Indonesian cultures, amok was rooted in a deep spiritual belief.[5] They believed that amok was caused by the hantu belian,[6] which was an evil tiger spirit that entered one's body and caused the heinous act. As a result of the belief, those in Indonesian culture tolerated amok and dealt with the after-effects with no ill will towards the assailant.[7] i have heard versions (again grain of salt without a better source here) which allege that people suffering from amok report the delusion that their penis is literally retracting into their body and will keep going and kill them. a little on the nose! but the fact that restorative justice is accepted after these sorts of attacks is sort of inspirational as well.
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Jan 3, 2021 01:13
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Hodgepodge posted:i have heard versions (again grain of salt without a better source here) which allege that people suffering from amok report the delusion that their penis is literally retracting into their body and will keep going and kill them. a little on the nose! but the fact that restorative justice is accepted after these sorts of attacks is sort of inspirational as well. Read that as "restorative juice" at first and went "what?" and then "well sure I guess  " until it clicked.
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Jan 3, 2021 01:18
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Hodgepodge posted:i hesitate to bring it up because this sort of cultural comparison is so loaded, so i'll advise a grain of salt here. that said, i think about the Malaysian concept of "amok" a lot when it comes to right wing violence: American right-wing violence isn’t just spectacular suicide, though. The point is that they hate their victims so much that they die in the act of killing them. It’s the same variation on suicide as family annihilators.
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Jan 3, 2021 01:24
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there's also an element of herostratic fame there too, just look at the way that some of these dipshits idolize mass shooters. i don't doubt that some of these monsters think that they'll go down in history and even if it's in a negative way, at least they'll be remembered for something
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Jan 3, 2021 01:28
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:American right-wing violence isn’t just spectacular suicide, though. The point is that they hate their victims so much that they die in the act of killing them. It’s the same variation on suicide as family annihilators. The American right doesn't have martyrs. If you die or get injured, you get disowned from the movement. It is their greatest weakness and absolutely hilarious.
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Jan 3, 2021 01:36
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:American right-wing violence isn’t just spectacular suicide, though. The point is that they hate their victims so much that they die in the act of killing them. It’s the same variation on suicide as family annihilators. well, america can't really be compared to a presumably functional society. i think the blaze of glory thing is there on some level, even if the glory is, um, killing some random kids. anyhow 3D Megadoodoo posted:Read that as "restorative juice" at first and went "what?" and then "well sure I guess we must steal the magic juice and heal this troubled land Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 01:53 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 01:49
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iirc from following portland news if piss boys dont have real antifa distracting them they just go around cornering and beating random 'antifa' (people they don't like the look of)
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Jan 3, 2021 02:10
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Cpt_Obvious posted:The American right doesn't have martyrs. If you die or get injured, you get disowned from the movement. It is their greatest weakness and absolutely hilarious. There was the bowl patrol, although I don’t remember if that guy died or not. The Columbine shooters still come up in manifestoes from time to time.
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Jan 3, 2021 02:38
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:American right-wing violence isn’t just spectacular suicide, though. The point is that they hate their victims so much that they die in the act of killing them. It’s the same variation on suicide as family annihilators. School shooters fit that bill pretty well and there is a good argument that the vast majority come from the same stock as the proud boys
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Jan 3, 2021 04:22
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 18:42 |
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It's not hard people. Cops exist to enforce the social order. Part of our current social order is white supremacy so white supremacists fit very comfortably into law enforcement and everyone in law enforcement is actively enforcing white supremacy. But, and this is important, not all white supremacists want or are part of the current social order.
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Jan 3, 2021 05:06
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