|
I am excited for new in game books. It would be hilarious to see the Eothas religious book in POE2 be a sermon titled "Pillars in the Hands of an Angry God."
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 08:59 |
|
|
I think I recall hearing some Obsidian self-criticism that Pillars of Eternity's story was basically a first draft. And I think that kind of shows-a lot of elements of the main storyline feel perfunctory. I nonetheless enjoyed it for what it is. And I suspect that some of the criticism or more from the echo chamber of the internet than the actual game. I'm replaying the game for the second time now(beat it for the first time right before it came, without DLC), and I'm enjoying the story a lot more. I simply don't see how Durance and Grieving Mother speak with archaic language. Like, they're not my favorite characters of all time, but I straight up don't see this supposed characteristic. I really enjoy that there's a lot of incidental dialog based on things like class, reputation, faction standing, race, etc. The world does acknowledge it what you've done, even without massive branching quests. No, having an incidental conversation with someone on the street doesn't come back to affect the story, but I can't think of any cRPG where that's happened beyond a single gimmick (and yes, I played and loved both The Witcher 2 and The Witcher 3). As I've grown older, stories about families suffering and children have affected me a lot more. The hollowborn crisis resonated, and its dealt with thematically throughout the game. In Guilded Vale, one of the first quests is helping a pregnant women terrified for her unborn child. The entire town is affected by Raedric's inability to have a healthy child. In Dyrford Village, the major sidequest centers around a noble terrified his lineage won't continue. Most of the choices aren't binary good or evil; in most conflicts, both sides are either kind of lovely or pretty decent but in opposition. Often, the more ruthless short term choice produces better long term outcomes. I think there's some nostalgia affecting the comparison to Baldur's Gate as well. Baldur's Gate really had no choices beyond combat style. You got stronghold quests that were basically extra content for specific classes, but beyond that most conversation choices led to the same outcome. Even Icewind Dale, a more straight up dungeon crawler, had more story reactivity and acknowledgment of things like stats, race, and class. I think there are like 2 stat checks outside of combat in BG2? And playing the game after 14, you kind of realize that Minc, Aerie, et. al are kind of terrible characters.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:03
|
|
|
Mr.Pibbleton posted:People who think whether or not to kill the guy with the lynching tree is a difficult decision baffle me. I mean in a world with real magic and "gods" who actively meddle in human affairs, morality might be a little different. Raedic might have been on the right track. We are all murderhobos after all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:03
|
|
|
While we're on God Chat and rope kid is around, I have a question. The pantheon of Eora lacks a god or goddess of fertility/love/lust. These figures are ubiquitous on Earth; why the difference? One option is that Obsidian didn't want to have a a Generic Sexy Love Goddess (although they would certainly do better than that). Or did the Engwithans not see a need for that sort of figure? Or want to discourage such behavior? Maybe they were a bunch of prudes?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:06
|
|
|
bongwizzard posted:I mean in a world with real magic and "gods" who actively meddle in human affairs, morality might be a little different. Raedic might have been on the right track. We are all murderhobos after all. Guess what my murderhobo code says about people with lynching trees?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:07
|
|
|
Engwithans are alpha male volcels who dont waste their life force
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:08
|
|
|
dangerdoom volvo posted:Engwithans are alpha male volcels who dont waste their life force precious bodily fluids
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
Eothas is about reproduction and equivalent to a spring god in real life pantheons. While he's gone all loving is strictly for fun or serving the wheel. No doing both at the same time is allowed!
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
Mr.Pibbleton posted:Guess what my murderhobo code says about people with lynching trees? Less of a code and more loose guidelines?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
Something I'm a little unclear about metaphysically; when do souls actually enter the body? Maerwald confirms your soul can be reborn as your own child if you die soon enough but I'm wondering how this ties into the Hollowborn crisis. Like if you're pregnant and come to Dyrwood during the crisis would the kid end up hollowborn? If you're pregnant and leave? When are the souls being ripped out? Or are they just blocked from getting in?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
Smiling Knight posted:While we're on God Chat and rope kid is around, I have a question. The pantheon of Eora lacks a god or goddess of fertility/love/lust. These figures are ubiquitous on Earth; why the difference? One option is that Obsidian didn't want to have a a Generic Sexy Love Goddess (although they would certainly do better than that). Or did the Engwithans not see a need for that sort of figure? Or want to discourage such behavior? Maybe they were a bunch of prudes?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:13
|
|
|
dangerdoom volvo posted:Engwithans are alpha male volcels who dont waste their life force Proven false by Lady Webb's memories. And arguably by Ondra and Abydon 1.0. Overall though, as much as a loved Pillars 1, the sequel could definitely benefit by drawing on Chapo for more of its lore. Edit: thank you rope kid! I wish I had the time to read all the lore books for this info is. Problem is that the gameplay itself is too much fun!
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:13
|
|
|
rope kid posted:Hylea and Ondra represent aspects of fertility and love, respectively. In Deadfire, the Huana associate Ondra a little more heavily with fertility, as evidenced by their angler fish-headed take on the Venus of Willendorf representing Ngati (their name for Ondra). Hey, are we going to get a fishing minigame? I have a lot of strong opinions about that topic I assure you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:15
|
|
|
Alternate loving gods: Galawain because courting is a hunt. Ondra because you can hide your dick whenever you want except for certain cycles of the moon Wael because men will never understand women and women will never understand men and that's the way it needs to be Abyddon because I am a machine in bed
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:15
|
|
|
Zore posted:Something I'm a little unclear about metaphysically; when do souls actually enter the body? Maerwald confirms your soul can be reborn as your own child if you die soon enough but I'm wondering how this ties into the Hollowborn crisis.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
bongwizzard posted:Hey, are we going to get a fishing minigame? I have a lot of strong opinions about that topic I assure you. Josh is saving the fishing minigame for the gently caress you suck my dick game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
prometheusbound2 posted:I simply don't see how Durance and Grieving Mother speak with archaic language. Like, they're not my favorite characters of all time, but I straight up don't see this supposed characteristic. Then you're willfully ignoring it, because they both speak majorily differently from every other character in the game. Durance is slightly more passable but is still rooted in some sort of ye olde rpg way of weirdo speak, while Grieving Mother is a mess of metaphorical language that just doesn't make any sense to me. As someone mentioned in GM's case it sounds like a fade or something not human trying to speak to you and its just too weird for me. For what its worth i should say that i agree with your other points and would like to mention that i really do like this game and its story is interestingly different, just so i dont sound overly negative all the time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:19
|
|
|
bongwizzard posted:Less of a code and more loose guidelines? Sometimes they get burned to death, other times hacked apart, the code has some flexibility in it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:22
|
|
|
durance definitely talks like a weirdo even within the context of the game but hell that just made me like him more
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:24
|
|
|
rope kid posted:Souls enter bodies at various points between conception and birth, but usually closer to conception. The bîaŵacs were not tearing souls out of fetuses, but grabbing souls in the Between on their way to start new lives. Of course, any housed soul near a bîaŵac can have its soul ripped out as well, but most pregnant women don't hang out by Engwithan ruins. Cool, that's close to what I figured was the case. It actually makes some of the endgame decisions harder in that case. Anyone still pregnant before you confront Thaos is still going to have a hollowborn kid unless you send the souls back to their bodies which fucks up the wichts. Ugh, it just makes me feel worse for Calisca's sister because I usually go with recycling the souls. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:24
|
|
|
I'm a fan of Galawain's personally, no weird downsides to consider plus it helps Pallegina.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
funmanguy posted:Josh is saving the fishing minigame for the gently caress you suck my dick game. I......don't know if I wanna go fishing with him now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:30
|
|
|
Random rear end in a top hat posted:Counterpoint: Skaen. He acts in direct opposition to his portfolio in the endgame. "Hey, you know what's cooler then rebelling? Selling out to The Man!" I mean, that's just shoddy craftsmanship on the Engwithans part. Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Feb 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
Gejnor posted:Then you're willfully ignoring it, because they both speak majorily differently from every other character in the game. Durance is slightly more passable but is still rooted in some sort of ye olde rpg way of weirdo speak, while Grieving Mother is a mess of metaphorical language that just doesn't make any sense to me. As someone mentioned in GM's case it sounds like a fade or something not human trying to speak to you and its just too weird for me. Their dialogue is distinct, but that doesn't make it archaic. When I think archaic dialog, I think Gene Wolfe. As you and others have said, Durance is a lunatic, but well-educated, religious fanatic. I'm pretty okay with his dialog. Grieving Mother isn't a spirit, but she's someone who lives in dream worlds and illusions. So again, lots of metaphorical speech kind of makes sense for the character.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
Avalerion posted:You don't really need to understand any of this beyond the basics until PotD at least. Not sure how you're defining "the basics", but it's kinda tough to get through (for example) the lighthouse fight in Ondra's Gift on hard without understanding status effects and appropriate counters.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
Managed to kill Raedric on medium with a party of level 4s, no hiding in door ways or cheesing it. First time through and I haven't played a serious RPG since the Baldurs Gate HD release. If I alt-tab out I lose audio which is a pain. It's hard to tell what's going on when everyone is bunched together. But that's something that no RPG or RTS really has solved. Differently it has its hooks in me. Picked it up at release, poked around a little but gave up before even reaching Caed Nua.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:01
|
|
|
That's tactics, yea you will need some strategy eventually. You don't really need to understand accuracy and defense beyond "higher is better", and while you do have to pay attention to statutes and immunizes, "should I use a spell that targets fortitude or reflex..." is not something I ever had to ask myself in any fight playing on hard. Graze/Crit is also something you can get away with not really thinking about other than random things that sometime happen.
Avalerion fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Feb 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
prometheusbound2 posted:Their dialogue is distinct, but that doesn't make it archaic. When I think archaic dialog, I think Gene Wolfe. I think Basic Chunnel has covered this in previous threads, but Durance and Grieving Mother are very "maximalist" - they are 'big' characters with obvious gimmicks, major ties to the game's plot and themes and written in an overwhelming style. "Archaic" is definitely the wrong word to describe them, but they are very different to the more naturalistic portrayals of the other companions.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
Avalerion posted:I'm a fan of Galawain's personally, no weird downsides to consider plus it helps Pallegina. Plus anyone hurt by not choosing Hylea, they can deal with it better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:17
|
|
|
I can't not choose Hylea thanks to the Brave Derrin quest.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
Zore posted:Cool, that's close to what I figured was the case. Thinking about it, the biawac which turns the player character into a watcher comes at just the right time to stop that poor baby's soul from reaching it. I have a hard time going with anyone but Galawain at the end. Hylea is nice but not many people will really benefit. Berath seems fine, Wael and Rymrgand are potentially extremely hosed up because the game basically establishes that there's a finite amount of soul essence in the world.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
Wizard Styles posted:I can't not choose Hylea thanks to the Brave Derrin quest. Headcanon: with Galawain, those parents find the strength to rebuild their marriage and have more kids. Re: Durance, I really liked that he was not especially likeable. He was a grotesque jerk but still a very distinct personality. Every other companion (except maybe Devil of Caroc) was likeable and friendly. My favorite moment with Eder was when he fucks up and calls Hiravias one of the good ones. Give us those raw edges. But Durance was dislikeable in the exact way fundie assholes can be in real life, and it made great sense as a Priest character. I hope there's more conflict, within limits, in PoE 2. Though it'll be hard with fewer named companions overall.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
My issue with Hylea (other than the ones spelled out by the game) is that having missed years of development, those kids likely won't be off that great even with their soul restored.2house2fly posted:game basically establishes that there's a finite amount of soul essence in the world. Souls can duplicate themselves when needed - this is why an industrial revolution and the resulting population boon won't lead to another hollow born crisis down the road for example.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
Avalerion posted:I'm a fan of Galawain's personally, no weird downsides to consider plus it helps Pallegina. Unless you have her carry out her mission, and then the Dyrwood goes to war.  I'm gonna do that in my Goldpact playthrough so I can see how mad Pallegina is in PoE2.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:Wael and Rymrgand are potentially extremely hosed up because the game basically establishes that there's a finite amount of soul essence in the world. Considering the Autumn Stelgaer lore, I'm confident Hiravias has generated at least twice as many new souls as could possibly be lost by picking Rymrgand in all of my playthroughs. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Headcanon: with Galawain, those parents find the strength to rebuild their marriage and have more kids. And, yeah, Calisca's sister deserves to at least have a healthy child after the poo poo the game puts her through.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
Gejnor posted:Then you're willfully ignoring it, because they both speak majorily differently from every other character in the game. Durance is slightly more passable but is still rooted in some sort of ye olde rpg way of weirdo speak, while Grieving Mother is a mess of metaphorical language that just doesn't make any sense to me. As someone mentioned in GM's case it sounds like a fade or something not human trying to speak to you and its just too weird for me. They really do feel like they are NPCs from a different game then the other NPCs you can get in your party. I can't even imagine if they'd gotten their full-fledged ~special snowflake~ mental dungeons to explore. It's like you have ten fairly simple BG1 style NPCs with some short dialogues and a mini-quest and then two NPCs waltzing in from Planescape Torment. Like my preference would be to have ALL the NPCs have as much in depth conversations as Durance or GM did, but when they don't it feels weird.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
Avalerion posted:Souls can duplicate themselves when needed - this is why an industrial revolution and the resulting population boon won't lead to another hollow born crisis down the road for example. They don't duplicate themselves, they split in half. Or That's a theory Hiravias mentions anyway, as the population grows souls spread out and that's how you get "soul twins"- two halves of one soul that remember being whole
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
Sorry, how dou you create new souls? I've always wondered.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
Pocket Billiards posted:
I keep seeing different people post variations on this -- " I didn't get into it at first but now it's grabbed me, " etc. I hope Obsidian figures out why that was and grabs people earlier with the next.one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 08:59 |
|
|
2house2fly posted:They don't duplicate themselves, they split in half. Or That's a theory Hiravias mentions anyway, as the population grows souls spread out and that's how you get "soul twins"- two halves of one soul that remember being whole My mental model was that there is a bunch of "soul energy" out there and some of it gets stuck together into souls for kith. Then during turns of the wheel those souls will lose some of their old soul bits to entropy, but might also pick some back up from the soul soup or whatever. So souls disintegrated by entropy could eventually return to the wheel in some form. The splitting theory seems impossible, at least in its extreme versions, because if you assume there was some original multicellular organism that reached the threshold for being "soulworthy", then every subsequent ensouled multicellular organism would have to be a soul twin of the first. Which is a whole lot of soul incest. On a somewhat related note, I don't think there's any reason to assume that the gods fully understand any of this either. Rymrgand likes to entropify things, sure, but that doesn't mean he/it really knows what happens after that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 21:00
|
|
