|
Entropy238 posted:Same. I enjoy having to manage resources across different encounters, though maybe when more tweaks are made empower will scratch the same itch. Health was a good mechanic too imo. It's fun to get caught with your trousers down by a fight every now and then, though this can be accomplished in better ways than resource restriction. My tactics are almost always the same in POE1 anyway. Not being afraid to use my per-rest abilities would probably add diversity.
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 14:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 01:51 |
|
|
sean10mm posted:My tactics are almost always the same in POE1 anyway. Not being afraid to use my per-rest abilities would probably add diversity. That's very true to an extent, but you'd always keep some stuff in reserve. For example, if you had a Druid in your party you probably wouldn't burn your relentless storm every fight – you'd save them for when things are starting to look a little bit ropey. Not knowing when/if you should use a certain ability adds a bit of tension. It's not something I'm particularly attached to though, and I hope they come up with a system that feels better. P.S. I followed your stripped 5x5 about seven or eight years ago and that started my de-goonification process. Thank you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 14:31
|
|
|
Did RPG Codex get a SunAndSpring fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Feb 17, 2018 |
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
they're still the best place for RPG news, weirdly enough
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 16:53
|
|
|
per rest mechanics are dumb because the only possible penalty is one of making your game less fun by having to walk back to town to buy more camping supplies if the combats are hard enough for you to have to use them, and especially because the per rest abilities were all stacked on three classes
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
SunAndSpring posted:Did RPG Codex get a It's because everyone's allowed to buy things imo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
There's really no need to talk about camping when health worked perfectly in single encounters. It rewarded damage avoidance and smarter play over simply brute-forcing through healing, which... seems to be an incredibly effective tactic in Deadfire. Still, it's a small problem in the long run, and I can certainly understand the reasons why it was removed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
Iretep posted:Basically for the health system to work youd need to have dungeons be a you arent getting out until youre done or if you leave the quest fails kind of deal. Camping and limited supplies mechanics have their place but if you dont support them with design they just turn into a massive chore. A game like Torchbearer is fundamentally designed around this and going back to town from a dungeon is arguably more punitive than just staying in the dungeon and suffering. Of the IE games, only the Icewind Dales emphasize dungeoneering enough to possibly make that work. The BGs allow much more free exploration and feature a lot of quests that are resolved entirely outside of dungeon spaces.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
Fair Bear Maiden posted:I'm not, it was a cool mechanic that added a wrinkle of complexity to healing that isn't present in Deadfire. But considering how many people did not get it, I guess it's good for the public at large overall. The public at large is kinda dumb though and everything being per encounter is boring. The beta is decently fun but being able to unload all your abilities every encounter makes it hard to keep engaged as there is less to think about.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
As someone who loathes vancian systems in computer games(*) , the argument that it would be more tactical and make it about resource management has never convinced me. It always struck me as justification for why people love the older cRPGs they're nostalgic for. Let's be honest, the older games didn't use because it was the best possible mechanic for dealing with player resources. It exists only because Gygax loved Jack Vance. It being resource management can only work if you've already played the game and have an exact knowledge of all the upcoming encounters. If you're aware of what you'll be facing, then you can properly plan for it by for example holding back higher level spells because you know a bigger threat is waiting around the corner. If you're going in fresh, then spells and other per-rest abilities can easily become a thing you hoard more then you'd need to, next to all those potions, because you don't know what's coming and you don't want to have to run all the way back to town and rest because that is tedious and boring. Per-encounter is better because it gives you more freedom to do your awesome cool moves. If doing the cool awesome poo poo is boring, then maybe not use the cool awesome poo poo every fight? Either that it just isn't that cool and awesome? (*) And specifically only computer games. I think vancian systems are fine in table top games as any half-decent GM can tweak their encounter depending on the party's resources.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 18:06
|
|
|
Yeah, moving away from per rest was a good overall change, it just created some balance issues.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 18:26
|
|
|
The thing about per rest is even on POTD it's entirely possible to basically ignore it as a mechanic if you want to. Most dungeons have 1-3 camping supplies. Take Durgan's Battery for example. Even on POTD that dungeon has a camping supply (in some cases multiple camping supplies) on every level. I guess the first time you go through that dungeon you might be more cautious not knowing that, but most dungeon crawls in Pillars feature camping supplies available if they're going to be difficult slogs. And of course there's nothing stopping me from leaving Durgan's Battery if I mismanage my supplies and buying more. The other thing is per rest abilities can get really really strong. Wizards/Druids/Priests are all enormously powerful in Poe1. In fairness, so are Ciphers who don't rely on per rest mechanics, but it's kinda hard for the melee classes to really stack up against the vancian casters. Melees can still be strong and still have their place, but the casters are the ones that butter the bread. Haven't played Poe2 beta yet so no idea how/if that's changed with the per rest gone, but it's quite obvious in Poe1 and in other games that also rely on that. In BG/IWD per rest casters are on a much higher level of power than any rogue or warrior class ever could be.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
I feel like I played a different Pillars 1, because I had no problems dumping my wizard/priest/druid spells nonstop and still rarely needed to rest. At the very beginning of the game - like, Eothas' temple - I had to spread things out a bit, but it really didn't take long for me to have enough spells per rest that I didn't need to overly worry about conserving them. A major reason being that, once I started to throw out my good spells, the fight wasn't going to be going on for much longer. And when I did need to rest, yeah, supplies were generally available often enough that I didn't need to run back to get more - and even if I did have to run back, I could...do just that, without much worry, either.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 21:37
|
|
|
Is there an explanation for how spellcasting has changed in Pillars 2 vs the first game? I'm someone that prefers playing wizard.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
Any major updates/infodumps on how much PoE1 decisions will affect PoE2? (I haven't followed the thread in ages) My first run was a well-intentioned paladin who made some bad decisions. My second run -- finishing now -- is a Vailian ultranationalist / Woedican monotheist. I'm curious how much of a difference these will make. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Feb 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 22:14
|
|
|
Casting times are different, concentration is a bigger (and more legible) concern, enemy DR is more formidable
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 22:15
|
|
|
Actually gave a good shot at the beta now. I'm so glad to be playing PoE again! I'm not a big fan of the Penetration thing because I'm a lazy person and I don't like switching weapons too much. But that's just me. However I can't tell half of the time who's generating the "No Pen" messages. I wish we could just have an option to add the character name in the message (ie: "(Edér) No Pen!") so I could just tell at a glance. Also I can't seem to find an AI condition for No Penetration (and then tell the character to switch weapons). I realize this could result in an endless loop (if you switch back and forth between weapons that have the No Pen condition return true) but that's an edge case and people could just turn that off in that scenario. Something else I found annoying is that the "Pause on Action" activates on Auto-Attack? That's not cool. I just want to auto-pause when any active ability is done (because I don't play with AI usually). Pausing after each weapon swing is too much, but disabling that option is not enough.  Encounter design is great, much closer to WM than the original game. They clearly want to gently caress you by putting ranged enemies in areas you can't really funnel the melees into a doorway or something, and the enemy AI is clearly programmed with this in mind. Much more challenging now (well, less dumb). I need to get a better handle on the spells etc because I'm still not really playing the spell:counter game too much to exploit weaknesses. And I'm starting to realize how dependent I was on Priests giving Accuracy bonuses. It's good that it's gone! Also missing the 6th party slot. I really liked my usual 3 melees (2 tanks, 1 DPS) and 3 ranged (2 DPS, 1 support) party set-up but I realize that'd make encounter design much harder.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 22:34
|
|
|
 reputation + faction screen looks like there's a 5th faction with the snake symbol?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 23:22
|
|
|
frajaq posted:
wow that's an awesome diagram, not sure what's it called but I love it What are the symbols on the top about?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 23:38
|
|
|
Gonna take a wild guess that the infinisnake is a faction of the naga-likes who are all super into the gods
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 23:49
|
|
|
Kurtofan posted:What are the symbols on the top about?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
yakuza 0 ui design ftw!!
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
Make this a little more slapdash and less symmetrical and they could go all in on the conspiracy theory board aesthetic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 00:32
|
|
|
I wish I had actual time to test the beta right now, but every time I fire it up it's like 1) Come up with some cool-sounding build 2) Fight up to the the lagufaeth area 3) Die 5x to the lagufaeth mother and then quit out
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 08:49
|
|
|
Someone at the Obsidian boards made a speed mod for the Backer Beta which reduces recovery time, amongst other things. If already have played the beta and want to try the game with a different balance, you can give it a whirl.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 12:14
|
|
|
Seconding the suggestion to check out the mod. There's a lot of good feedback in that thread, including discussions about how reducing casting times also affects enemies, taking increased melee recovery time into account when considering relative balance, and a welcome acknowledgment that the Engwithan Titan is simply poorly balanced and probably shouldn't be used as a benchmark for overall combat tuning.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 19:44
|
|
|
Ropekid don't give in to caster supremacy. Edit: nevermind, I didn't notice that the higher sleight of hand requirements were for objects that I could steal but get detected doing so. Maybe the text for those should get a different color from what you get when you can't pickpocket something. Some sort of stacking penalty (per-faction) that goes away with time would be nice though. I think trying to find the most valuable thing to steal would be more interesting than pickpocketing every npc you see. Octo1 fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Feb 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
Raygereio posted:It being resource management can only work if you've already played the game and have an exact knowledge of all the upcoming encounters. If you're aware of what you'll be facing, then you can properly plan for it by for example holding back higher level spells because you know a bigger threat is waiting around the corner. Save scumming is how it works the first playthrough. Save after every fight. Try every fight without spells a few times. Try the fights you lose with a few weaker spells. If you lose those try with some bigger spells. If you don't have enough spells, rest and try again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:03
|
|
|
Scorchy posted:I wish I had actual time to test the beta right now, but every time I fire it up it's like Haha this is me too except I literally die in the first ambush every time. I might be bad at games. Or, and this is what I'm hanging my hat on, I can't come to grips with 5 party members * 6 levels * equipment worth of systems in one go and if I play from square 1, level 1, I'll be alright.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 08:05
|
|
|
Hey guys is the end of WM2 super bugged or something? I'm trying to convince the Eyeless to temper Abydon but they're all HAHA BUT THOU ART A HYPOCRITE, except it's for a bunch of decicions I never even made! For instance saying I helped create the Forge Knights, but I didn't even side with the Crucible Knights, I sided with the Doemenels  Also saying I urged Maneha to forget whereas I did exactly the opposite, and some other incorrect poo poo as well that I can't remember off the top of my head because I angrily Alt+F4'd.What gives?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 10:31
|
|
|
cgfreak posted:Hey guys is the end of WM2 super bugged or something? I'm trying to convince the Eyeless to temper Abydon but they're all HAHA BUT THOU ART A HYPOCRITE, except it's for a bunch of decicions I never even made! For instance saying I helped create the Forge Knights, but I didn't even side with the Crucible Knights, I sided with the Doemenels Did you do part of the Crucible Knights quest? I feel like they might still get pissed at you if you did part of it even if you didn't complete the whole chain, but I could be wrong. I know a lot of people do the first part of the Knights just to unlock the smithy. Still trying to decide on a char to play through Poe 1 with and import into Poe2. I feel like I'll probably just play a Ranger like I often do because pets own. Are the multi-class Ranger options in Poe2 fun? I usually take the Antelope because having a big deer-like pet running around squealing at enemies is hilarious. Also it's a somewhat underrated pet because its defense bonuses make it a little sturdier than other pets.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 11:16
|
|
|
cgfreak posted:Hey guys is the end of WM2 super bugged or something? I'm trying to convince the Eyeless to temper Abydon but they're all HAHA BUT THOU ART A HYPOCRITE, except it's for a bunch of decicions I never even made! For instance saying I helped create the Forge Knights, but I didn't even side with the Crucible Knights, I sided with the Doemenels The Eyeless conversation has been incredibly bugged since launch. I'm not sure why they've never fixed it. If you want to get the Ondra ending or the Abydon restored ending, it's fine, but a load of the triggers for the tempered ending straight up don't work. (Though, I don't like the tempered ending anyway since it's the straight up best ending in every respect, which is boring.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 13:25
|
|
|
i ended up just changing the script for the ending convo using this guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/5wc5sh/wm2_spoilers_tempering_guide/
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 14:36
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:Did you do part of the Crucible Knights quest? I feel like they might still get pissed at you if you did part of it even if you didn't complete the whole chain, but I could be wrong. I know a lot of people do the first part of the Knights just to unlock the smithy. Yeah, if you do the first Crucible Knight quest (Built to Last) it locks you out of the tempered ending. But yeah, it's kind of weird that conversation was just left to rot in terms of how broken it can be. Hopefully when you import a save it will let you change some of your choices, that one in particular.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 14:38
|
|
|
I wanted to go for some sort of compromise thing before i knew if it was even an option and just couldn't make it happen. Whatever, im happy with the restored ending.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 14:48
|
|
|
The PoE Wiki is woefully incomplete in a lot of regards, but it does have a very comprehensive article on how to achieve the tempered ending: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Lair_of_the_Eyeless#Tempering_Abydon Note that Maneha's part is bugged. AFAIK, the other variables should all work as described. Enigmatic Cakelord posted:Yeah, if you do the first Crucible Knight quest (Built to Last) it locks you out of the tempered ending. You can still pull it off if you helped the Crucible Knights but your only options are being anti-animancy in the hearing and having convinced Aloth that some secrets are best kept hidden, so the margin of error is pretty small.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 15:11
|
|
|
Personally I’d say that tempering Abydon isn’t worth convincing Aloth to become a fascist or denouncing animancy at the hearing 
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 15:36
|
|
|
Well that sucks I guess < > at least I can jury-rig it apparently.The entire end was a wet fart really, what with the Eyeless just being mass-banished by Abydon's Hammer and a St. Ydwen's Redeemer-wielding Maneha. Also the Kraken was disappointingly easy. Sucks because the rest of WM was a level higher than Pillars in terms of game quality. Thanks for the help people!
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 15:38
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Personally I’d say that tempering Abydon isn’t worth convincing Aloth to become a fascist or denouncing animancy at the hearing I mean, it's the ending you explicitly go for because you think that some knowledge should be kept from the general populace. I can't imagine why you'd choose it if you weren't highly skeptical of animancy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 15:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 01:51 |
|
|
It's kind of dumb to lock you of a resolution based on how you reacted to situations which are similar. Maybe if you took a hard line consistently, sure. However, the alternative to that is weighing situations based on the details and circumstances at hand and/or basing your decisions on principles which are independent of those similarities, and that can really easily mean that the lock-out ends up being frustrating and dumb.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 15:47
|
|
