Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart
No Soul
No Service

Lt. Danger posted:

I keep talking to this character I don't want to talk to, obsidian help
Please stop being disingenuous.

He wants to talk to the character. Specifically he wants to tell the character he's full of poo poo. He can't do that. Saying just ignore the content isn't very useful. Otherwise you should probably stop talking about all the stuff you'd like to see changed in future RPGs as well.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Some of us are trying to have a conversation about Orlan-on-Eder slash fic and everyones' mucking it up with well-reasoned and insightful points about game design and writing, aaarg

I'm gonna play a male Orlan and romance Eder!

TEENAGE WITCH
Jul 20, 2008

NAH LAD


sumone put ydwin thru the snapchat filter

Only registered members can see post attachments!

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 22 hours!


post the rest coward

TEENAGE WITCH
Jul 20, 2008

NAH LAD


frajaq posted:

post the rest coward

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Can anyone read the Korean?

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


Lt. Danger posted:

C.f. all the NWN2 companions, who are far more annoying than Durance, far less interesting and also Avellone characters.
It’s been a while, but IIRC none of the NWN2 OC characters were designed or written by Avellone.

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 22 hours!



nvm thought you got that ydwin from this pic but it looks like slightly different

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

They're all bad, but Pallegina is especially bad.

Edit: Specifically I mean the weird filtered portraits. Pallegina's actual portrait looks badass.

Anno fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Mar 8, 2018

Entropy238
Oct 21, 2010



Fallen Rib

Xoti's definitely the looker.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

I don't know why you guys are complaining about not being able to tell Durance off, like you can murder him and take his magical stick with absolutely no repercussions, like who cares what the guy says, now he's dead and I have his toys, all is right with the universe.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



I really like Pallegina, even though I think she's not fleshed out enough as a character. I think her artwork conveys what we know about her very well. Ydwin's art design is loving perfect. The image it gives you is one dimensional, but it's the single, beautiful dimension of the soul flaying librarian.

To me, Xoti looks like she's hanging out in a dive bar, ready to convince you she's the bad but good girl you've always wanted, until she fleeces you at dice and then leaves.

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010


bongwizzard posted:

I don't know why you guys are complaining about not being able to tell Durance off, like you can murder him and take his magical stick with absolutely no repercussions, like who cares what the guy says, now he's dead and I have his toys, all is right with the universe.

"I don't understand why people are disappointed when there aren't enough dialogue options in this game where dialogue is the main form of gameplay."

Meyers-Briggs Testicle
Aug 13, 2012

But without the hero, there is no Event.


Buglord

Mymla posted:

"I don't understand why people are disappointed when there aren't enough dialogue options in this game where dialogue is the main form of gameplay."

'main form of gameplay' hmmm

ps bongwizards ideal game is a linear combat gauntlet (basically IWD) thats been made pretty clear in the past 10000 posts hes made expressing that

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:

'main form of gameplay' hmmm

ps bongwizards ideal game is a linear combat gauntlet (basically IWD) thats been made pretty clear in the past 10000 posts hes made expressing that

Actually I prefer open world games with 1 million sidequests and a weak to nonexistent main plot that I can ignore if I don't like it. I do prefer combat-focused games, as I have books if I want to read a thing and movies if I want to watch a thing, but games are the only entertainment that scratches my "playing with little army men" desires.

And also it seems kind of absurd to get all bent out of shape about a lack of dialogue reactivity when you have a blank slate protagonist. Like how many different dialogue options are reasonable to cover every conceivable character concept that a player could dream up?

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Interactivity and dialogue options are a big part of video games like this, and it's at least interesting to discuss how interacting with a character is handled. Durance is definitely implemented in such a way that he disregards role playing- I take him as a player because I find him interesting, but I can't really think of a reason why my character would want him around beyond "he seems like he might be dangerous, better stay on his good side". This may be because there were cuts to his story and multiple writers involved. I like that the other party members don't get on with him, and even the final boss makes fun of his dick

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Lt. Danger posted:

I keep talking to this character I don't want to talk to, obsidian help
Does this actually happen?? I wouldn’t know, I stopped playing when it became clear I couldn’t start a farm and work it quietly til I died, despite that being my character’s clear and stated intention

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



rope kid posted:

It’s been a while, but IIRC none of the NWN2 OC characters were designed or written by Avellone.

Wasn’t Elanee his? I at least remember the Obs forums rapturously regarding her as an Avellone Subversiontm of player romances

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


bongwizzard posted:

And also it seems kind of absurd to get all bent out of shape about a lack of dialogue reactivity when you have a blank slate protagonist. Like how many different dialogue options are reasonable to cover every conceivable character concept that a player could dream up?
Not that I disagree on principle, but the relationship between Durance and the Watcher is relatively clearly defined. And it's not like a generic "gently caress you, you racist, sexist troglodyte piece of poo poo." dialogue option is equivalent to covering every possible angle.

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010


bongwizzard posted:

And also it seems kind of absurd to get all bent out of shape about a lack of dialogue reactivity when you have a blank slate protagonist. Like how many different dialogue options are reasonable to cover every conceivable character concept that a player could dream up?

Ah yes, the unique snowflake character concept of "would like to be able to tell Literally Hitler he's full of poo poo".

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 22 hours!


all the durance haters here will get the pyre

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


I love Durance. If he didn't belong to a class that bores me he would be in all my party line-ups.
But I would love him even more if the game let my character hate him properly.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


Basic Chunnel posted:

Wasn’t Elanee his? I at least remember the Obs forums rapturously regarding her as an Avellone Subversiontm of player romances
I don't think so but to be honest I don't remember who wrote whom on that project. Still, I can confidently say that almost all of the character designs and their writing were not by Avellone.

E: Actually, I remember that Eric Fenstermaker wrote Sand and Tony Evans wrote Grobnar.

rope kid fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Mar 8, 2018

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010


Wizard Styles posted:

I love Durance.
But I would love him even more if the game let my character hate him properly.

Agreed.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Mymla posted:

Ah yes, the unique snowflake character concept of "would like to be able to tell Literally Hitler he's full of poo poo".

Or you could not be a whiner about such things and just kill him and take his rocket scientists magic stick for yourself without a bunch of tedious dialogue.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



rope kid posted:

I don't think so but to be honest I don't remember who wrote whom on that project. Still, I can confidently say that almost all of the character designs and their writing were not by Avellone.

E: Actually, I remember that Eric Fenstermaker wrote Sand and Tony Evans wrote Grobnar.
Wouldn’t be the first time gamerz misattributed something to Avellone and we haven’t seen the end of that phenomenon since

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



Darkhold posted:

Please stop being disingenuous.

He wants to talk to the character. Specifically he wants to tell the character he's full of poo poo. He can't do that. Saying just ignore the content isn't very useful. Otherwise you should probably stop talking about all the stuff you'd like to see changed in future RPGs as well.

I think we have drifted from "Durance is a vanity character for an arrogant and pretentious writer" to "my power fantasy was insufficiently respected on one occasion", and I don't think the latter is a good enough reason to condemn Durance as a character. I don't think the interaction in question should have made it into the final game if the designer wasn't able to follow through completely, but I can understand why it might have stayed in anyway.

rope kid posted:

It's been a while, but IIRC none of the NWN2 OC characters were designed or written by Avellone.

If so I stand corrected - but I remember an RPGCodex interview where he talks about characters of his in reponse to a question, and he lists Sand and Grobnar alongside Ulysses, Kreia etc. Perhaps I misunderstood though.

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

rope kid posted:

I don't think so but to be honest I don't remember who wrote whom on that project. Still, I can confidently say that almost all of the character designs and their writing were not by Avellone.

E: Actually, I remember that Eric Fenstermaker wrote Sand and Tony Evans wrote Grobnar.

Maybe I missed it, but have you spoken at all about who's writing everyone for Deadfire? Besides you writing Pallegina and Eric writing Eder, of course. Is Carrie writing Aloth again?

The Crotch
Oct 16, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


Man.

Now I'm remembering Grobnar.

Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart
No Soul
No Service

Lt. Danger posted:

I think we have drifted from "Durance is a vanity character for an arrogant and pretentious writer" to "my power fantasy was insufficiently respected on one occasion", and I don't think the latter is a good enough reason to condemn Durance as a character. I don't think the interaction in question should have made it into the final game if the designer wasn't able to follow through completely, but I can understand why it might have stayed in anyway.
The argument as I see it is that many consider him a good fictional character but a poor video game character and suggesting that he'd be a better video game character if there was MORE content and ways to interact with him than there currently is.

This is certainly something that's debatable (I find him fine as I noted) but saying don't interact with him is not helpful as they're asking for more content not less and is clearly something you understand from this last post so as I said your earlier posts are disingenuous.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Darkhold posted:

The argument as I see it is that many consider him a good fictional character but a poor video game character and suggesting that he'd be a better video game character if there was MORE content and ways to interact with him than there currently is.

This is certainly something that's debatable (I find him fine as I noted) but saying don't interact with him is not helpful as they're asking for more content not less and is clearly something you understand from this last post so as I said your earlier posts are disingenuous.
There could always be more content in a game, judging an otherwise complete game by what’s not in it is a bad scene. Better to judge what’s in it by how it’s executed. In the game as we have it, Durance is owned plenty, is never really vindicated, and can be kicked out / murdered with ease. Just yell “gently caress you dude” at the screen when u hit the attack button if u need to.

En Garde Motherfuckers
Apr 28, 2009

Hey. Is it just me, or do my balls itch?

The Crotch posted:

Man.

Now I'm remembering Grobnar.

I don't remember poo poo about Grobnar.

Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart
No Soul
No Service

Basic Chunnel posted:

There could always be more content in a game, judging an otherwise complete game by what’s not in it is a bad scene. Better to judge what’s in it by how it’s executed.
This doesn't even make sense on the face of it. Of course what is and isn't included is central to how it's executed. The Stronghold for instance is poo poo that got mildly better when more content and interactions were added. Saying 'it's poo poo but I guess there's nothing to be done but ignore it' is pretty pointless.

quote:

In the game as we have it, Durance is owned plenty, is never really vindicated, and can be kicked out / murdered with ease. Just yell “gently caress you dude” at the screen when u hit the attack button if u need to.
And that's not satisfying to some. They should be able to advocate for what they want. Yelling in a forum where a designer posts is slightly (though probably not by much) more useful then telling them to yell at the game and possibly scare their pets.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012



Just a reminder that the blood pool exists.

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Yeah but you can't sacrifice GM and Durance.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


Anno posted:

Maybe I missed it, but have you spoken at all about who's writing everyone for Deadfire? Besides you writing Pallegina and Eric writing Eder, of course. Is Carrie writing Aloth again?
I wrote Pallegina and pickups for various Edér lines. Eric wrote the vast bulk of Edér. Carrie wrote Aloth. Megan starks wrote Xoti. Paul Kirsch wrote Maia and Tekēhu.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

If you sacrifice a party member you lose out on an ending slide. No thank you.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

With regard to the current discussion, I hope we get the option to tell Tekēhu to tekēhike!

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

rope kid posted:

I wrote Pallegina and pickups for various Edér lines. Eric wrote the vast bulk of Edér. Carrie wrote Aloth. Megan starks wrote Xoti. Paul Kirsch wrote Maia and Tekēhu.

Speaking of Edér and Aloth lines, did you ever get to meet Matt Mercer? If so, what's he like?

Also I'm curious about how hard it was to coach him on Iselmyr's accent.

Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Mar 8, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


I've met Matt a few times. He's a great guy. I don't recall him needing any coaching for Iselmyr's accent, though the only session I sat in on was our initial Deadfire one when he was voicing the Fig movie script and Edér and Aloth's voice sets. I normally don't sit in on his sessions but I wrote the intro and Edér's voice set.

  • Locked thread