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Fair cop. It follows to me because of how I read but I also don't live somewhere with a lot of numbered roads, so I'll defer to you on that as far as regular usage.
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May 11, 2017 23:05
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from the west coast and i get poo poo on the east coast for saying "the 101." the only solution to this problem is interstate/state highway sign emojis. it's not the 101 unless it's  realtalk: infinite jest talks about boston streets a lot. read that
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May 12, 2017 00:16
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The west coast has a bunch of features that all contribute to the addition of an article in front of highway numbers. Since the states are much larger than the east coast, a highway is much less likely to change number, so it makes sense to refer to 'the X' as a highway instead of 'well it's 218 in new york and that becomes 33-west in connecticut and the Palisades Parkway if you go toward new jersey'. (There's also much less likely to be multiple routes with the same name.) Plus, since the numbering system starts in the south west and counts up, it means the west coast gets a lot of simpler numbers. If you've got I-5 you might start calling it The 5, but if you've got I-96 it's a bit harder to make the jump to articles. this has nothing to do with fiction but a lot to do with roads 
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May 12, 2017 02:41
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It has to do with fiction because it emphasizes the importance of research.
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May 12, 2017 03:36
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actually getting published, now thats some real fiction
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May 12, 2017 04:29
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anime was right posted:actually getting published, now thats some real fiction Too busy writing forums posts about writing fiction to actually write fiction.
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May 12, 2017 04:48
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self-pubbing your erotica counts as getting published right
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May 12, 2017 06:38
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only if you're willing to admit to it in public
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May 12, 2017 06:40
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anime was right posted:actually getting published, now thats some real fiction drat owned
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May 12, 2017 23:47
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crabrock posted:from the west coast and i get poo poo on the east coast for saying "the 101." good
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May 13, 2017 19:12
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for real how the gently caress do i get test reading done aaaaaaaaaaa
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May 15, 2017 18:11
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anime was right posted:for real how the gently caress do i get test reading done aaaaaaaaaaa I really wish I could help, or that I was in a position to read a lot of words and give good crits. I can't rly help but maybe if there are more posts in this thread, someone will show up and provide an actual answer.
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May 17, 2017 04:19
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My book's finally going great guys, closing in on the end 
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May 17, 2017 04:22
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General Battuta posted:My book's finally going great guys, closing in on the end my goal is to one day have your problems. ...i should start drinking, shouldn't i?
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May 17, 2017 04:26
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General Battuta posted:My book's finally going great guys, closing in on the end f5f5f5f5f5 I've been looking forward to the next book foreeeeeverrrr you horrible monster (well done, keep it up, you're an inspiration)
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May 17, 2017 04:33
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Man it ain't like that. Being published won't change anything about the internal struggle. How you think of your work, how to make yourself believe you have something to say, comparing yourself to better writers or writers getting prizes or writers landing huge advances. It's 'the next thing will make me feel good' all the way down. So don't put yourself down! You gotta start beating those habits now! The eternal struggle can't wait 
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May 17, 2017 04:39
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General Battuta posted:Man it ain't like that. im gonna climb the rungs until i die. if i can see a lot of cool poo poo all high up there then it will have been worth it, you know?
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May 17, 2017 04:47
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General Battuta posted:It's 'the next thing will make me feel good' all the way down. this is life. the key is to recognize that feeling of working towards something as "happiness." that's as good as it gets.
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May 17, 2017 12:40
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every time I open up the 2nd draft of this story im working on, I am overcome by loathing. Like if the words of my story were a person, I would forcefeed them drain cleaner. I'm probably going to die still wallowing around in first draft faffery. I can't even imagine going through this again when I finish my latest attempt at a novel. anyone got any tips??? 
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May 18, 2017 00:27
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Sitting Here posted:every time I open up the 2nd draft of this story im working on, I am overcome by loathing. Like if the words of my story were a person, I would forcefeed them drain cleaner. I'm probably going to die still wallowing around in first draft faffery. I can't even imagine going through this again when I finish my latest attempt at a novel. I have had a lot of difficulty with a weird sense of distaste for my writing for a while, so I think I know what you mean. I've been struggling to bounce between a couple of first drafts I still want to finish, but it keeps coming up and preventing me from doing a whole lot. What I've found kind of helps has been trying to conceptualize a scene, any scene, and mull it over. Listen to music that fits the scene, consider how you want the dialogue to sound, how the action should look. See if you can get some kind of excitement or interest in the scene, then try to sit down and work on it. It might not keep you going for long, enough to get some words down, but something is better than nothing. If you have someone interested in taking a look at some chunks and giving input (someone you trust, obviously, since you're sharing an iffy first draft) it may also help you internalize an outside perspective. I hate how my writing goes when I'm working on it but getting even some passing comments from my fiance definitely helps me appreciate it more.
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May 18, 2017 02:03
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Scrivener just betrayed me. My computer shut down accidentally (the start button is kind of broken) and now every attempt to open my project file gives me the message that it is "incompatible with this version of Scrivener." Even with backups, except for if I go so far back that it doesn't matter anyway. Googling shows me a common fix involving editing a version.txt document in the project folder - nice, except that it results in a version of my novel that can be opened but is not at ALL up to date with 90% of all the files misisng. No real loss of words since I have all the raw text documents and can import them to Word and work there, but I had just color coded and organized everything, goddamnit!  Sitting Here posted:every time I open up the 2nd draft of this story im working on, I am overcome by loathing. Like if the words of my story were a person, I would forcefeed them drain cleaner. I'm probably going to die still wallowing around in first draft faffery. I can't even imagine going through this again when I finish my latest attempt at a novel. it sucks I've had those days where I open the document and just groan and slump over because it's so bad what was I thinking. But I appreciate that I am at least conciously incompetent. It is the most annoying of the four stages of competence and it just keeps coming back. Better than not seeing the problems, though. On a more basic level I like to have timers instead of word goals at times like that because then I know exactly when I can move on from the project and its flaws. Makes it a bit more bearable.
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May 18, 2017 16:38
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I have multiple finished novel-length stories. Maybe a couple of them have good ideas. I think one of them might even have a second draft. But I have zero attention span for rewriting. It's just not as fun as churning out new stuff, and I have to go through old writing where I have no idea what's good and what's bad, and I'm really bad at plotting with no idea how to improve. I'm thinking that next November I might try pounding out another draft of that story because it has good potential and I know I can focus with a deadline.
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May 19, 2017 01:00
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Yeah, I'm basically just using this thread to vent. The lovely reality is that the editing process requires you to buckle down and treat your novel or short story like any other job. I think that's what I've been struggling the most with. It's pretty much just a matter or cultivating and maintaining discipline, which suuuuuucks. I'm noticing this super annoying cycle, where I spend a few months doing 15K-20K per month, but it's all really rough writing that I completely dread editing. Then I get burned out. Then, when the time comes to fix up my slapdash writing, I have so much contempt for the work that the editing process feels a lot like holding my face to a flaming belt sander. I'm currently sitting on the world's biggest pile of first drafts and half-finished novel attempts, like some sort of whiny poo poo dragon.
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May 19, 2017 02:09
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Sitting Here posted:Yeah, I'm basically just using this thread to vent. The lovely reality is that the editing process requires you to buckle down and treat your novel or short story like any other job. I think that's what I've been struggling the most with. It's pretty much just a matter or cultivating and maintaining discipline, which suuuuuucks. Do you have anyone else that can look at it for you? It blows if you're the only one looking at your work. This is where a writers group comes in handy!
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May 19, 2017 02:12
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HIJK posted:Do you have anyone else that can look at it for you? It blows if you're the only one looking at your work. This is where a writers group comes in handy! Yes! I am fortunate to have access to lots of frank critiques from the fine goons of these very forums. Plus I will often read excerpts at literary open mics and such. The issue really is just me and my brain's reluctance to commit to things that aren't video games and Netflix. I got a chromebook so I could write on the bus easily (where there's no internet), which I've had some success with. But that's still not a great time to edit, since using the touchpad makes jumping around within a document annoying.
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May 19, 2017 02:17
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Sitting Here posted:Yes! I am fortunate to have access to lots of frank critiques from the fine goons of these very forums. Plus I will often read excerpts at literary open mics and such. The issue really is just me and my brain's reluctance to commit to things that aren't video games and Netflix. Sounds a bit like you're psyching yourself out. Try to relax, editing isn't a personal indictment. Try chopping the editing time into tiny bits of time, just be consistent about it.
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May 19, 2017 02:42
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Sitting Here posted:Yes! I am fortunate to have access to lots of frank critiques from the fine goons of these very forums. Plus I will often read excerpts at literary open mics and such. The issue really is just me and my brain's reluctance to commit to things that aren't video games and Netflix. can you print it out and scribble on it?
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May 19, 2017 02:50
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sebmojo posted:can you print it out and scribble on it? Sure, and that's fine for the beginning of the editing phase, but it doesn't really help when I'm at the stage where I am actively trying to create a quality, polished document where the words are all where I want them. I'm just whining. I feel as though I've worked tremendously hard, but don't have the diligence to polish work enough that I'm confident that the big pubs will even look twice at it. It's been an ongoing struggle and sometimes I wish my brain would let me give up, but I have like a pathological need to bottle my farts in word form.
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May 19, 2017 03:00
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Sitting Here posted:I feel as though I've worked tremendously hard, but don't have the diligence to polish work enough that I'm confident that the big pubs will even look twice at it. It's been an ongoing struggle and sometimes I wish my brain would let me give up, but I have like a pathological need to bottle my farts in word form. Welcome to the wonderful world of writing! I feel the same way. It's much more interesting and cathartic to get the words down and watch the story grow from the inside. Editing is a comparative slog, especially if the book is long. I read an article once from a writer who said that once he finished a book, he scrapped it and wrote it all over again from scratch. According to him, it always turned out better the second time because he already knew how the story worked. While that may be a little .... extreme ... it did get me thinking that the editing process is less Making Every Word Perfect and more about getting the whole story under control. I mean, you could go all Ezra Pound and spend fifty years creating the Platonic ideal of your novel, but what you really want is a story without too many flappy bits sticking out. Get it consistent, pare it down, say what you meant to say, make it so that no single part makes you frown reflexively when you read it, and then start getting it out there.
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May 19, 2017 16:41
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That's also where a professional editor comes in handy because they can cut down the bullshit fast.
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May 19, 2017 16:51
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Sitting Here posted:I'm noticing this super annoying cycle, where I spend a few months doing 15K-20K per month, but it's all really rough writing that I completely dread editing. Then I get burned out. Then, when the time comes to fix up my slapdash writing, I have so much contempt for the work that the editing process feels a lot like holding my face to a flaming belt sander. I wonder if you're writing too quickly then? Sure, anyone can wordsplang at a rapid pace, but that would seem to make for this very editing problem you're detailing. What if you slowly crafted 5-10k per month and paid close attention to quality, not quantity? It would be slow going, but you might end up completing more projects because going back and editing them won't make you want to die (as much).
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May 20, 2017 03:00
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yeah, write better words.
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May 20, 2017 03:27
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The pros and cons of my project: Pros: the epistolary format is really nice, it gives me the first POV without having to wrote everything as it immediately happens, I can get some distance from the action and focus on the creepy aspects more in the "the more I think about this the worse it becomes" sort of way. And I'm finally getting the story down! Cons: Making a distinctive narrative voice is so difficult with the first POV, all I can hear is my own voice talking back at me. The meandering letters let me map out the story events as I go but I'm frustrated because I'm having such a hard time developing this protagonist because he sounds just like me and he really shouldn't.
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May 23, 2017 17:30
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why does your protag share all your views? is it really necessary to the story? take one of your views and flip it, then give that to the char. it'll force you to write poo poo you wouldn't say. It'll force you to start thinking of them as a different person. the more you can imagine your characters as people, the more your brain will start to fill in those gaps. We pretty much have vast amounts of brain computational power dedicated to determining what others are thinking, and how they might act. writing fiction taps into this. as soon as your protag starts doing poo poo you wouldn't do, it forces your brain to start going "OH GOD WHAT MIGHT HE DO? CONSIDER ALL THE POSSIBILITIES IN CASE ONE OF THEM IS 'STAB YOU' SO WE CAN RUN AWAY" people poo poo on me when i say anxiety is beneficial to writing, but it really is.
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May 23, 2017 17:41
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That's the thing, he doesn't share my views, he shouldn't think anything like me, I'm just having a hard time making him sound different in terms of word choice, etc.
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May 23, 2017 18:13
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Any character you write is going to have a bit of your own narrative voice to them, because you can't get entirely outside of your head when you write. If you're having trouble distinguishing them from your normal narrative voice though, maybe try coming up with a couple mental rules for how they sound different? You'll want them to tie back into some aspect of your character so they're not just doing it to sound different. It could be anything from a simple preference for vocabulary or forms of speech to more complex personality traits. I recently read a novel where all the characters had a certain energetic wordiness to them because that was how the author wrote, but each character did have their own mannerisms within that--like a lawyer who would always be outwardly courteous but also very presumptive, so when he talked to other people he'd start genially telling them what he thought was in their best interest to do. So I guess the real question you should answer for yourself is what actually is your character's voice? Like, if they want something from someone, how would they ask for it? If they're trying to convince someone, how would they do it? How would they describe themselves? How would they want to come off to other people?
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May 23, 2017 18:33
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HIJK posted:Cons: Making a distinctive narrative voice is so difficult with the first POV, all I can hear is my own voice talking back at me. The meandering letters let me map out the story events as I go but I'm frustrated because I'm having such a hard time developing this protagonist because he sounds just like me and he really shouldn't. HIJK posted:That's the thing, he doesn't share my views, he shouldn't think anything like me, I'm just having a hard time making him sound different in terms of word choice, etc. Some possible things to try: 1) Try writing something NOT in the story from the voice of your character. As you're writing the letters, you are doing multiple things. Building the plot, the setting, other characters, etc. Set all that aside and write something that's more exclusively the character. Them just talking about themselves, their views, why they have them. Focus on the voice. Something like: <i>I guess you might say I grew up in the country, but being from the biggest town in Washington County I figured I was right sophisticated until I moved to the city. Some lessons here you have to learn fast, and I must have learned those fast enough because here I am. Others you have to learn slow, and those are the ones I'm not too sure about even now, a full thirteen years later. The crowds are still a bit too big, and the skies a bit too small, but there's music. That's what's kept me here so long. I don't know if it'll ever let me go. </i> Not a work of literary genius or anything obviously, but hopefully an understandable example of what I'm talking about. If the character still sounds too much like yourself, try it again until you feel it. Or try editing it and rereading it until you've got it internalized to write from it as you go along. 2) If you think you can plot out the novel with the actual choices your character would make, etc. while writing in your own voice, maybe go ahead and write the story, then fix the voice in post. It will be a major rewrite obviously, since the words are the story, but it would be another way to separate writing the voice from the rest. Or you could treat it almost as an outline for developing the rest of the elements of the book. I have doubts about this option, because I can't imagine being able to feel/experience/write a character without hearing their voice in my head. Maybe you are different. 3) This option would trip up a lot of people, because it can lead to paralyzing over thinking. Basically, think really hard and analytically about how your character's experiences would shape their voice. How would growing up in a small town (for example) change his word choice, sentence length, rhythms? Would it? (given modern interconnectivity and TV, it might not!) What about his own personality? What's important to him? How would that be reflected? Look at a sentence and think about how he would say it differently. Well, you'll have to look beyond a sentence, because he would probably break up the information differently. This is a less intuitive, more analytical way of approaching option one above. You can also combo it up. I made some conscious decisions writing the above: The structure is conversational. She uses "figured," "right sophisticated," "full thirteen years," colloquialisms that I personally associate with a rural voice (possibly incorrectly, so remember that potential pitfall). That's also why the specific things she mentions about the city are the crowds and the sky, not for example, the quality of public transportation. Also why she simply calls it the city. It's the only one she's known so there's no need to differentiate. The last two sentences are short for emphasis. The rest of it was more-or-less intuitive. If for some reason you were inclined to analyze this bit I wrote (whhhhyyyy?) you could probably find some other defining elements: There are multiple qualifiers (I guess you could say, I must have learned, I'm not too sure) -- you could say this reflects her continuing uncertainty with her place in the world, but hell if I was consciously thinking that one. Does repetition of rhythm and word choice reflect lack of creativity or musicality? etc. I don't know if any of these would work for you, but I will say that personally, I would hesitate to keep working on this before figuring out the voice. The voice is very practically who a character is. It's both HOW they think and WHAT they think and WHY they think like that, and I don't think you can write a story from their perspective without knowing that.
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May 23, 2017 19:43
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Some possible things to try: Good points. When I'm GMing and want to change my native voice it can be good to keep it simple - pick a movie star you know, change something significant about them, and write as though that's the character. Oceans Eleven George Clooney, but a beaten down accountant. Aliens Ellen Ripley as a suburban mum.
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May 24, 2017 00:20
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sebmojo posted:Good points. When I'm GMing and want to change my native voice it can be good to keep it simple - pick a movie star you know, change something significant about them, and write as though that's the character. Oceans Eleven George Clooney, but a beaten down accountant. Aliens Ellen Ripley as a suburban mum. This is a good idea, thanks! Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Some possible things to try: This sounds like the best idea since it lets the chracter grow without getting bogged down in plot detail. quote:2) If you think you can plot out the novel with the actual choices your character would make, etc. while writing in your own voice, maybe go ahead and write the story, then fix the voice in post. It will be a major rewrite obviously, since the words are the story, but it would be another way to separate writing the voice from the rest. Or you could treat it almost as an outline for developing the rest of the elements of the book. I have doubts about this option, because I can't imagine being able to feel/experience/write a character without hearing their voice in my head. Maybe you are different. This isn't a bad idea but it also sounds like a quick way to burn out, fixing stuff in post is hard, I can't imagine having to rewrite the whole thing  And since character influences story so much, I'd end up flubbing the plot too. Nooooo.....quote:I don't know if any of these would work for you, but I will say that personally, I would hesitate to keep working on this before figuring out the voice. The voice is very practically who a character is. It's both HOW they think and WHAT they think and WHY they think like that, and I don't think you can write a story from their perspective without knowing that. Ha, exactly, I've skidded to a halt a bit because of this. I think I'll try the first method and see how much it helps. Thanks for the suggestions everyone 
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May 24, 2017 01:08
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 22:57 |
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HIJK posted:Thanks for the suggestions everyone Report back with your results so we can learn through your experience instead of doing it ourselves.
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May 24, 2017 07:05
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