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sebmojo posted:Good points. When I'm GMing and want to change my native voice it can be good to keep it simple - pick a movie star you know, change something significant about them, and write as though that's the character. Oceans Eleven George Clooney, but a beaten down accountant. Aliens Ellen Ripley as a suburban mum. I can see how this would work for a GM playing an NPC, but I'm horrified by the idea of using it for a main character as a novel....
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May 24, 2017 07:07
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:I can see how this would work for a GM playing an NPC, but I'm horrified by the idea of using it for a main character as a novel.... I think the point is that you might have that in your head when you're writing, but the reader will have absolutely no idea. it will just be a character, with qualities, that acts and is acted upon.
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May 24, 2017 07:24
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that's no moon, it's a orc
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May 24, 2017 16:53
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I hate starting. Description description description verb description. gently caress that noise. I want to just start the story, no descriptions at all. gently caress the reader they'll have to just figure it out. OH I KNOW ALREADY. "SHUT UP AND WRITE." I know.
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May 30, 2017 14:09
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magnificent7 posted:I hate starting. Well that's definitely not a mandatory way to start a story, soooooooo.... The Snows of Kilimanjaro, by Ernest Hemingway The marvelous thing is that it's painless," he said. "That's how you know when it starts." "Is it really?" "Absolutely. I'm awfully sorry about the odor though. That must bother you." "Don't! Please don't." "Look at them," he said. "Now is it sight or is it scent that brings them like that?" In the Penal Colony, by Franz Kafka "It’s a peculiar apparatus,” said the Officer to the Traveler, gazing with a certain admiration at the device, with which he was, of course, thoroughly familiar. It appeared that the Traveler had responded to the invitation of the Commandant only out of politeness, when he had been invited to attend the execution of a soldier condemned for disobeying and insulting his superior. Of course, interest in the execution was not very high, not even in the penal colony itself. A Good Man Is Hard to Find, by Flannery O'Connor The grandmother didn't want to go to Florida. She wanted to visit some of her connections in east Tennessee and she was seizing at every chance to change Bailey's mind. Bailey was the son she lived with, her only boy. He was sitting on the edge of his chair at the table, bent over the orange sports section of the Journal. "Now look here, Bailey," she said, "see here, read this," and she stood with one hand on her thin hip and the other rattling the newspaper at his bald head. "Here this fellow that calls himself The Misfit is aloose from the Federal Pen and headed toward Florida and you read here what it says he did to these people. Just you read it. I wouldn't take my children in any direction with a criminal like that aloose in it. I couldn't answer to my conscience if I did." I, Robot, by Isaac Asimov I looked at my notes and I didn't like them. I'd spent three days at U. S. Robots and might as well have spent them at home with the Encyclopedia Tellurica. The Yellow Wallpaper, by Charlotte Perkins Gilman It is very seldom that mere ordinary people like John and myself secure ancestral halls for the summer. A colonial mansion, a hereditary estate, I would say a haunted house, and reach the height of romantic felicity—but that would be asking too much of fate! Still I will proudly declare that there is something queer about it. A Very Old Man With Enormous Wings, by Gabriel Garcia Marquez On the third day of rain they had killed so many crabs inside the house that Pelayo had to cross his drenched courtyard and throw them into the sea, because the newborn child had a temperature all night and they thought it was due to the stench. The world had been sad since Tuesday. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 16:08 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 15:31
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Confusing black squiggly writing hard.
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May 30, 2017 15:54
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Well that's definitely not a mandatory way to start a story, soooooooo.... All of those are good, but all of those are old. Using the best openings of the twentieth century only helps so much when you're trying to appeal to the tastes of agents now. Not saying you have to go by the formula, of course, but the industry's changed a lot since Kafka and Asimov were getting their works read.
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May 31, 2017 02:02
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i love writing openings, it's probably my favorite part of the whole story.
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May 31, 2017 03:41
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Naerasa posted:All of those are good, but all of those are old. Using the best openings of the twentieth century only helps so much when you're trying to appeal to the tastes of agents now. Not saying you have to go by the formula, of course, but the industry's changed a lot since Kafka and Asimov were getting their works read. They are classics (and ones I can easily c/p off the internet). Feel free to add some modern examples that you think are more relevant. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 03:50 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 03:47
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crabrock posted:i love writing openings, it's probably my favorite part of the whole story. The sun rose gently between the corduroy hills and satin clouds. My mood reflected the day: ebbulient. Or did the day reflect my mood?
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May 31, 2017 03:49
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I think some of those openings are pretty neat in any timeframe 
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May 31, 2017 03:49
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timeless openings??????????? in my 21st century thread?????
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May 31, 2017 04:10
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I'd cop to the argument that they aren't timeless if it was like dickens but those are all good attention getters
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May 31, 2017 05:32
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Better Fred Than Dead posted:I'd cop to the argument that they aren't timeless if it was like dickens but those are all good attention getters
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May 31, 2017 14:35
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imo reading how to write is dumb. just read books/stories instead. it'll do you better in the long run. gently caress how somebody else thinks i should write. I GONNA DO ME
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May 31, 2017 14:53
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crabrock posted:imo reading how to write is dumb. just read books/stories instead. it'll do you better in the long run. gently caress how somebody else thinks i should write. I GONNA DO ME that stuff is good for problem solving but writing strictly using a heros journey template or w/e is a recipe for disaster if you dont know why you're doing stuff in the first place.
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May 31, 2017 15:00
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anime was right posted:that stuff is good for problem solving but writing strictly using a heros journey template or w/e is a recipe for disaster if you dont know why you're doing stuff in the first place. As the person who wrote 20k words on how to write to start this thread, I 100% agree.
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May 31, 2017 20:15
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I've been having a lot of trouble with logic, which I know is the worst thing in the world when it comes to selling a fantasy setting. I'm working on an urban fantasy story which does the whole "There are secretly monsters/wizards/whatever lurking in unseen corners of the world, as some of the few normal people with knowledge in this area we're stuck dealing with it" thing. I have a fairly decent intro, where the main characters discover a mundane problem which eventually leads to their falling face-first into the supernatural, but that's where I hit my roadblock: why is it that the instant they see something that isn't rational, they don't run screaming and call the police? I don't want to have an Exposition Guy whose job it is to meticulously explain the world and convince the main cast that calling the police would just get them locked up, but I find it completely irrational that Lenny the Tax Accountant, upon seeing a zombie, decides to gather some friends and go on a big zombie-killing adventure in the abandoned sewers instead of seeking outside help. I suspect the solution is to just go "Screw it, nobody cares," and never bring it up in-story, but I feel like that would bug the heck out of a lot of readers. Have there been any authors who solved this particularly well? The most common solution I can remember seeing is saddling the cast with a Lore Guy who learned about all of this offscreen, and who provides the rest of the characters with exposition and plot hooks on demand.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:58
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Maybe they think they imagined the thing or they think there's a perfectly rational explanation or some company is pulling a viral prank or they're just more curious than scared
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Jun 1, 2017 12:02
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I can't name authors that are particularly good at that one thing, but I would look at your favorite paranormal/urban fantasy books to see how they handle similar situations. Most of the urban fantasy books I'm recalling start with the premise of the undead/magic/whatever already being out in the open or at least known to the protagonist (Anita Blake, Sookie Stackhouse, Dresden Files, Rivers of London, most of the zombie books I've vaguely heard of, etc.), so you might have to flip through a few before you find examples of this situation. Irritatingly, searching for urban fantasy brings up mostly a ~very certain~ type of book, so while I know I've read this situation several times before, I'm mostly turning up books like the above. Gaiman has done it a few times, I think the best example from him might be Neverwhere. Here are some ways I recall seeing it done:
A lot of these might be more common in horror, so maybe take a look there, too?
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Jun 1, 2017 13:59
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get into their psyche. either A. They believe in supernatural poo poo, and so it's not really a surprise, and what use is calling the cops on a ghost, etc? you'll be locked up and thrown in the crazy house! no, better to deal with this yourself or B. They don't believe in supernatural poo poo, and spend most of their time in denial until it's too late and they're in the thick of it. i believe cellphones have really hosed over a lot of good story opportunities. silence of the lambs is ruined for me because one of the biggest build up moments is when she asks to use his phone at the end. ugh.
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Jun 1, 2017 15:50
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If they are sovereign citizens they would probably hate cops
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Jun 1, 2017 16:39
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Have a scene where they go to the cops and then get Baker Act'ed for obviously being high.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:13
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They go to the cops, but the cops have been deep-cover zombie agents the whole time.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:19
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give a good reason for the characters to not go to the cops. like a legitimate character reason. thats the best way. otherwise handwave it in the most effortless way possible. make your protags nwa, is what im saying.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:03
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maybe the protags r the cops
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Jun 1, 2017 21:40
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Thank you for the suggestions... I'm going to write a draft which has them assume that police won't believe them, and see how it reads... I suspect I'm vastly overthinking how much readers care, since "We're doing a secret supernatural mission but don't tell the muggles" is a pretty well-tread cliche at this point. Thinking of Supernatural, the TV show, I genuinely don't think they ever explained why monster hunters don't involve the authorities, I think it's just casually handwaved away a few times in the beginning, and as a casual viewer I never caught myself caring.
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Jun 1, 2017 22:07
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how can i go to the police when i am the police?!
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Jun 1, 2017 22:10
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crabrock posted:how can i go to the police when i am the police?! VERY CAREFULLY Naerasa posted:All of those are good, but all of those are old. Using the best openings of the twentieth century only helps so much when you're trying to appeal to the tastes of agents now. Not saying you have to go by the formula, of course, but the industry's changed a lot since Kafka and Asimov were getting their works read. Dr. Kloctopussy posted:They are classics (and ones I can easily c/p off the internet). Feel free to add some modern examples that you think are more relevant. Okay, I guess I'll do this, though I'm just guessing about what kind of agents anyone might be trying to appeal to, and what those ambiguously defined agents might find appealing. "Clean, Cleaner, Cleanest," by Sherman Alexie (Top story on New Yorker fiction as of this post) (on the other hand, it's Sherman. loving. Alexie., so it's not like this had to "appeal to the tastes of agents," but it's still pretty good, IMO) (passable at best) (riding on his own coattails, if you ask me) The used condoms stopped bothering Marie after a while. At least the people were being safe during their motel sex. She was Catholic and didn’t believe in abortion. But she was more flexibly Catholic than strictly Catholic, so she did believe in birth control—pills, devices, procedures. That’s good science, she thought. And God created everything, including science. One of God’s other names is Big Bang. Sometimes, when she prayed, she said “Dear Big Bang,” and she was half certain that God enjoyed the inside joke. Nobody was allowed to be fully certain about God. And she’d never trusted anybody who claimed to be certain about God. You cannot be confident and faithful at the same time, she thought. "Fool's Cap," by Andy Dudak (Top story on Clarkesworld Magazine as of this post) Beadith stood on the beach and watched her shuttle burn for orbit, then blossom white and fall smoking from the sky. She felt she’d seen this before, wondered at it before, and when the concussion shoved her back, slipping on the rocks, this also seemed familiar. But the moment of déjŕ vu passed. The meteor shower of the shuttle hit the ocean in geysers of steam, and it too was gone. Into The Water, by Paula Hawkins (current #1 combined print and ebook fiction for 3 weeks, according to the NYT) "Again! Again!" The men bind her again. Different this time: left thumb to right toe, right thumb to left. The rope around her waist. This time, they carry her into the water. Gone Girl, by Gillian Flynn (I heard this one was popular??) When I think of my wife, I always think of her head. The shape of it, to begin with. The very first time I saw her, it was the back of her head I saw, and there was something lovely about it, the angles of it. Like a shiny, hard corn kernel or a riverbed fossil. She had what the Victorians would call a finely shaped head. You could imagine the skull quite easily. (Dr. K here for a second: wtf that is really creepy and weird) Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, by J. K. Rowlng (because I guess I have to cite this every time now? I dunno) Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last people you’d expect to be in- volved in anything strange or mysterious, because they just didn’t hold with such nonsense. Mr. Dursley was the director of a firm called Grunnings, which made drills. He was a big, beefy man with hardly any neck, although he did have a very large mustache. Mrs. Dursley was thin and blonde and had nearly twice the usual amount of neck, which came in very useful as she spent so much of her time craning over garden fences, spying on the neighbors. The Dursleys had a small son called Dudley and in their opinion there was no finer boy anywhere. The Fault in our Stars, by John Green (Goodreads top book of the 2010s) Late in the winter of my seventeenth year, my mother decided I was depressed, presumably because I rarely left the house, spent quite a lot of time in bed, read the same book over and over, ate infrequently, and devoted quite a bit of my abundant free time to thinking about death. - - - - - - - Argh it's killing me, but stupid Gone Girl, which I've never picked up because I know, I KNOW, it's not the kind of book I like... but those opening lines are killing me. I'm probably going to have to read it now, and I'm not going to like it. And they aren't snappy; they aren't description, description, verb. They are just loving weird. A KERNEL OF CORN, wtf. So, there's no "rule" for how to open a book, not even narrowing it down to what an agent is going to find interesting. You can look at examples like this for clues, for ideas, but not for solid answers. You have to figure out what works yourself. Claire DeWitt posted:Never be afraid to learn from the ether...That's where knowledge lives before someone hunts it, kills it, and mounts it in a book. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 08:34
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crabrock posted:how can i go to the police when i am the police?! But doctor, he said, tears welling in his eyes, I am Constable Smithers.
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Jun 2, 2017 09:14
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
I haven't read Gone Girl but know the just of it - the whole shtick is the dudes' super creepy and the reader isn't sure if they should trust him/unreliable narrator etc. So that's a pretty good tone setter no?
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Jun 2, 2017 18:19
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Yeah that opening is pretty perfect for the point of the book. You should read it, it's good.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:13
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Yeah, that's interesting. I only saw the movie, and I can't recall a point where Ben Affleck ever came off as creepy as that first paragraph makes his character seem. Sleezy, sure, but never creepy and weird
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Jun 3, 2017 13:27
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If I remember correctly the next paragraph talks about him envisioning her brain writhing around like a bunch or worms or something. It's a pretty great setup to the whole premise of the novel.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:38
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Hope that this is an appropriate place to ask a question: can anyone explain the difference between an homage and a pastiche to me? 
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Jun 3, 2017 22:14
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Wheat Loaf posted:Hope that this is an appropriate place to ask a question: can anyone explain the difference between an homage and a pastiche to me? its an irregular verb: I write homage, you write pastiche, they are loving plagiarists. sebmojo fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 22:20
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Wheat Loaf posted:Hope that this is an appropriate place to ask a question: can anyone explain the difference between an homage and a pastiche to me? Wikipedia, Pastiche posted:A pastiche is a work of visual art, literature, theatre, or music that imitates the style or character of the work of one or more other artists. Unlike parody, pastiche celebrates, rather than mocks, the work it imitates.[...] Pastiche can also be a cinematic device whereby filmmakers pay homage to another filmmaker's style Wikipedia, Homage posted:Homage (/ˈhɒmᵻdʒ/ or /ˈɒmᵻdʒ/) is a show or demonstration of respect or dedication to someone or something, sometimes by simple declaration but often by some more oblique reference, artistic or poetic. [...] See Also: Pastiche Homage is intentionally dedicating a piece of art to something, pastiche is an imitation of something in celebration of it. You can create an homage through pastiche. Homage is creator intention, pastiche is creative device.
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Jun 3, 2017 22:39
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So I got Scrivener for writing and so far I love it, but I've got a bit of a problem- it keeps underlining every single word as misspelled, no matter what. Google's not helping me.
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Jun 8, 2017 16:52
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Sociopastry posted:Soue Ie gwt Scrivner forr writng nd sso ftar Ie louve itt, bott I'va gotue aa bint gof aa probalem- itt keps underlnng evry snigle wordde ats mispelted, noo mattre waht. Gogole's naot helpng mee. Sorry, dunno how to help you
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Jun 8, 2017 17:18
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Why'd you turn me Scottish 
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Jun 8, 2017 17:26
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