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It took a couple of weeks but I finally made it all the way through this thread. That OP is some amazing stuff! To contribute - I've seen Writing Excuses brought up a few times in the thread, but not Brandon Sanderson's main YouTube channel which contains all of his BYU lectures on writing SFF and some other miscellaneous questions on writing that he's been answering during his livestream signing sessions. This is the playlist for the 2020 lectures: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSH_xM-KC3Zv-79sVZTTj-YA6IAqh8qeQ Most of what he covers applies to any genre (or any storytelling really), though there's a few that are very specific to SFF (e.g. world building and magic systems). He also has 2 lectures covering the business/publishing side of things (traditional and self publishing). Jerry B Jenkins also started up a YouTube channel and recently posted a pretty good video on writing dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpWKp-fnZuU
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Oct 2, 2020 06:16
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Read more, write more, close thread, I know, but when you're starting out, having someone break down a thing into its constituent parts is very helpful - especially for reading more and analyzing what someone else did and why I like or do not like it. His stuff doesn't sound like it'd be my cup of tea either, but the video itself gave me a helpful framework on how to think about writing dialogue. 
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Oct 2, 2020 13:43
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take the moon posted:i distrust authors who post how-to videos when they could be writing more, reading more, closing threads Daric posted:Hello, I'm Brandon Sanderson. I just finished the final draft of my 450k word epic fantasy novel -- only the 4th of a 10 book series -- and between now and the time that it will release, I will write a novella set in the same universe that will come out a month before the book. I will then write 3 more books in the next year and a half before starting on the 5th novel. I also teach a creative writing class at BYU and have a weekly podcast where I claim each episode is only 15 minutes but in reality they're all about twice that. I don't sleep. I don't eat. I don't partake in earthly delights. I am the beginning and the end. Before me there was nothing. After me, the world will suffocate under the weight of my works.  Djeser posted:If you want some really good author advice Steering the Craft by Urusla K Le Guin is real good. I don't think it covers dialogue specifically, but I worked my way through it with a small group a little while back and I'm thinking of going through it again and redoing the exercises she recommends to give myself a refresher on the ideas. Currently waiting on a copy from my library!
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Oct 3, 2020 06:45
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queserasera posted:Can anyone suggest a bare-bones personal wiki program that's still being maintained and updated? I've been using Notebook but I'm worried it's going to crash and burn one of these days. Specifically I want something no-frills and doesn't need internet to work. Is WikidPad the only solution here? There was a Tor article that talked about wikis: https://www.tor.com/2019/01/07/how-to-create-a-wiki-to-support-your-fantasy-worldbuilding/ I don't personally use one, I just use Evernote or a Google Doc. I remember seeing a plug for some sort of world building software from the tabletop RPG YouTuber WASD20 - if I can find that specific ad and the name of the software I'll come back and let you know.
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Nov 6, 2020 09:37
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queserasera posted:Can anyone suggest a bare-bones personal wiki program that's still being maintained and updated? I've been using Notebook but I'm worried it's going to crash and burn one of these days. Specifically I want something no-frills and doesn't need internet to work. Is WikidPad the only solution here? Leng posted:I remember seeing a plug for some sort of world building software from the tabletop RPG YouTuber WASD20 - if I can find that specific ad and the name of the software I'll come back and let you know. Happened to click on the link for "Offers" under "Writer's Resources" on the NaNoWriMo website and found it! World Anvil - there's currently a NaNoWriMo offer for 25% off with the code NANOWRIMO. I have not used it whatsoever, it just seems to come up in a lot of the world building YouTube videos I watch.
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Nov 16, 2020 15:13
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don longjohns posted:I think I would die 😭 I got in my 12 this week. I got it in. Some of it was staring at the screen with my notes. Some of it was actual physical writing. Enjoy the process and don't judge the output. As long as you've dedicated the time to writing and you follow through with spending that time, it's good, regardless of the actual word count or the words.
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Nov 21, 2020 13:58
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I recently read Baru 1 and loved it; am currently reading Baru 2 and that AI's attempt (which I saw the unedited version of) was indeed horrifying. I did Andrew Ng's machine learning course once just to get a better understanding of the basic concepts and I have to say that I have no idea how you would train an AI on what is and isn't appropriate when it comes to writing fiction.SimonChris posted:Anyway, I won't do any more Baru if the author doesn't like it. The mistake was starting with a great book written by a good author. How about you try one of these awful books written by a bad author or these also terrible books written by a really bad author? I'm curious to see whether the AI could do a better job (I bet it does). EDIT: Sailor Viy posted:This article has helped me improve my efficiency a fair bit: https://www.sfwa.org/2011/12/14/guest-post-how-i-went-from-writing-2000-words-a-day-to-10000-words-a-day/ especially the bit about writing a synopsis of the scene before actually writing the scene. I just read this and this is great. Petitioning for this to be added to the OP! Leng fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 12:35
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sebmojo posted:Yeah that's much better. Echoing this!!
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Jan 6, 2021 13:43
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Ccs posted:Alright I come to you all with another small question. I have a sentence here: Had to go back to your Google Doc for context: quote:The doors burst from their hinges with a deafening boom and crashed to the ground in a shower of dust. The glow from the engraved runes on Cantus’ staff faded as he and his partner Renk moved through the haze of the rogue mage’s hall. I think you have some more options, depending on what you're trying to convey. Are the runes temporary or permanent? E.g. are they permanently engraved on the staff and glow when Cantus is actively doing magic? Or are they temporary runes which Cantus has to re-engrave every time he wants to do some magic? Is the engraving an important detail? Is it more important that the reader understands Cantus was the one responsible for the doors being blown off their hinges? Where I think you're getting tangled up the most is you're trying to emphasize a visual detail while also conveying blocking information. The visual detail seems more important than the blocking information, which could be combined with other sentences that are conveying action. Here's one option, which zooms in - we go from big visual and auditory detail to a smaller visual detail and a sensation, then to internal thoughts in the first paragraph. Second paragraph then focuses on action: quote:The doors burst from their hinges with a deafening boom and crashed to the ground in a shower of dust. Glowing runes faded from Cantus' staff as he released his spell, exhilaration thrumming through his veins. A grand entrance, that was the way to begin a battle. Here's another, if you want to play around a bit more with the opening paragraph - we go the other way, by starting with the character's emotion, to the trigger for the emotion, then to the visual detail that's evidence of Cantus causing the explosion, then the consequence of the explosion, and then the character's thoughts to bring it full circle with the emotion. This is then a nice segue into the action, leading with the stronger verb "swagger" and cutting the generic "moved through". Plus it's all centred on Cantus, who at this stage of the story, is a pretty egotistical guy, so it's nice to have Renk both physically trailing behind him in the action and also trailing and being mentioned almost as an afterthought in Cantus' POV: quote:Cantus felt an exhilarating thrill thrum through his veins as the doors to the rogue mage's hall burst from their hinges with a deafening boom. The glowing runes on his staff faded as the doors crashed to the ground in a shower of dust. A grand entrance, that was the way to begin a battle. He swaggered through the haze, skimming just enough power off the surface of the astral world to clear the dust while concocting the perfect opening line. His partner Renk trailed behind, busy appraising the clumsy insignia carved into the cracked oak doors. Edit: comma placement, I am bad with commas Leng fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 05:33
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Ccs posted:There are some good thoughts here but your first fix runs into the same problem I had, the "he" still doesn't make sense because the subject of the sentence is still "staff" and not "Cantus." Whoops!  I'm an idiot. This is why I shouldn't try offer commentary on copyediting stuff...I'm terrible at it.To compensate: Sanderson posted an in-depth interview with his editorial team on Rhythm of War. It covers some general stuff about the author/editor relationship and also delves into the specifics of his process for writing books (5 drafts, not counting copyedit and proofreading). I think he is unusual in terms of the extent to which he utilizes beta readers as an author (I'm personally a fan, it aligns a lot with how musical theatre is developed with readings, etc) and pretty interesting to see the level of work that goes into producing one of his books: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxV20CVtYJo
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Jan 14, 2021 12:11
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Sanderson is not releasing his BYU lectures this year (he's said that they'll release them every 3-4 years, which makes sense, since it'd be too much of a repeat otherwise) but his assistant is posting new snippets on his YouTube. Today's snippet was on words per writing hour–benchmarks and how to increase that, with the aim of being able to write at a pace where you could rough draft a 100k word book every year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIze473qjJ0
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Jan 28, 2021 21:11
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Gin_Rummy posted:Is there a good resource/general advice for writing dialogue that doesn't sound like a bunch of middle schoolers or insanely corny? I feel like I have most of the skills and tools needed to craft a satisfying enough world, characters, story, etc... but I think I get too hung up on how the dialogue sounds to actually churn out the rest of the prose in between. I found this gave me a helpful framework for writing dialogue, even if you might not be a fan of this guy's work: Leng posted:Jerry B Jenkins also started up a YouTube channel and recently posted a pretty good video on writing dialogue: I plug Sanderson's BYU lectures all the time because they are also a good resource. Lecture 10 has the specifics on dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJfE-HMfSkk
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Mar 4, 2021 01:30
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:does anyone have any suggestions for books/shorts that do a really good job of distinguishing characters in dialog, so I could get a better idea of how to approach that with some relative subtlety? Here's a short story which is written entirely in dialogue, with no dialogue tags: https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html It's only two characters, so it's easy to tell who's saying what, but you can see the difference in how they speak as well.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:39
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Speaking of improving on writing dialogue, sebmojo gave me permission to shop the Script Frenzy thread around CC so if you've ever had any interest in writing for stage or screen (or graphic novel, or podcast, or web series, or a documentary or any other form of storytelling that utilizes a script), come sign up for the 100 page script challenge in April with me! Scripts are basically prose novels except there's only dialogue and action! So if you're struggling to make your characters sound distinct from each other, you'll get to work on it pretty hard by writing a script. And if said script doesn't work out, you can still totally reuse all of the great dialogue and actions you came up with as a sort of outline for a prose novel! It's like getting a jumpstart on your next book!
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Mar 21, 2021 13:49
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newts posted:I’ve used some version of ‘Save the Cat’ before, more as just a very loose guideline for my plot. Can second the recommendation for Save the Cat, though take it more as a guideline, rather than gospel. My other go to is Sanderson's BYU lectures on plotting - he breaks things down in quite a bit of detail that I found very helpful as a new author. All of the ones from 2020 are up on YouTube and well worth watching in full. Right now though you probably want #2 and #3: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSH_xM-KC3Zv-79sVZTTj-YA6IAqh8qeQ
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May 14, 2021 18:27
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kaom posted:I’m really new to writing. I assume a writing group is what I’m looking for to get some serious criticism on whether this is working as intended or not? White Chocolate posted:In the hopeful vein of getting people to join a writers group I’m looking for 3-5 people to join. Write and crit with an eye to prepare stuff either for publishing or just for fun.
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May 31, 2021 02:27
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PiCroft posted:I guess I’m asking if these sound contrived, sensible or if I’m overthinking it? I’ve been trying to avoid the trap of constantly editing as I write but these questions are tormenting me and I finally decided I’d like some outside perspectives. You're way over thinking it. Ideas are just that - ideas. An idea that sounds dumb can still turn out awesome if the execution is awesome. Have some words of advice from Jim Butcher: Jim Butcher posted:How did you come up with the original idea for CODEX ALERA? We’ve heard rumours that it involved a bet on whether you could combine the Roman empire and Pokémon… is that true? Both of the things you've posted sound fine to me. Pick the one that's going to be more fun to write, get your butt in the chair and :justwrite: so you can get it out on the page. Then you can get back to revising and making it awesome.
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Jun 17, 2021 11:01
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DropTheAnvil posted:This sounds really similar to Mary Robinette Kowal's "Yes/No/Yes, but/ No, and" method for novels. Basically your character has a problem, and they do something. Their either solve it (yes) and the problem goes away, they don't (no) and they fail, or they succeed/fail and there is a consequence (Yes, but/No,and). The best part about her model is when you pass the climax and you need to start closing things off, you switch over to "Yes, and" or "No, but" to close off the problems! This was really helpful for me, because I always struggle with closing off things.
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Jul 23, 2021 05:36
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Throwing yWriter into the mix here: http://www.spacejock.com/yWriter.html The Mac version is still in alpha but the Windows versions have been kicking around for a long time. It's fairly intuitive to use.
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Jul 25, 2021 13:11
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limaCAT posted:I love how the whole came out but mostly important that "it's a story that exists now and with characters I care about". Congrats!!! Getting to the end of that first book is such a great feeling, it's definitely worth celebrating. See you over in the self-publishing thread when you're ready. 
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Aug 20, 2021 03:38
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Dr.D-O posted:Oh, great. I didn't realize that was an option. Thanks for letting me know! You can also PM mods in TBB and ask if you could post in the relevant TBB genre thread. Basically, you just want to find where people who would love your book hang out and pitch them.
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Oct 5, 2021 19:58
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White Chocolate posted:Half my writing group.. “jumps in”. Well let's make that all of us. I'm psyched for NaNoWriMo!
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Oct 13, 2021 04:08
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D34THROW posted:Anyone ever successfully written a short story (or short story series) or novel (or novel series) using an RPG system to determine the flow of things? Basically playing, say GURPS, against yourself. I'm thinking of doing so because I've tried collaborative writing before and I really like the unpredictability of it, so I'm thinking RPGs as a guide might be a way to incorporate that into my writing proper. Sitting Here posted:Malazan series Also the entire Dragonlance franchise. I've not played the games based in that universe but I have read quite a few of those books! And you should check out both the SFF KU thread (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3844346) which is where we talk about LitRPG and cultivation novels/progression fantasy, and also the web serial thread (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3831668) which also has a lot of the same, because a lot of the self-pub authors start on a web serial platform to gain a following, then later compiling their chapters and editing it into a self-pub book and self-publishing via KDP, etc.
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Oct 29, 2021 11:02
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:My general rule with stuff like anime has been like, it's cool that it influences you but I want to see it's not the only thing that influences you. There's definitely an angle there, "this is for people who love anime but I also know my poo poo c.f. prose fiction and I'm bridging the gap between two things I love while smartly getting rid of the poo poo that doesn't work." This is why I think Will Wight is doing so well as a self-published author with Cradle. You can see the wuxia/xianxia influences very clearly, but he's melded it with his other influences and produced something that is brilliantly written. Junpei posted:Also, here's something #relatable. Absolutely me, and you can see me flail around through this chart in real time if you jump into my writing livestreams.
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Nov 17, 2021 06:21
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anime was right posted:sanderson does this too, tho i think its like 2 people and a wiki mostly Peter and Karen Ahlstrom, a husband and wife team who started with him at BYU. Peter works out all of the complicated world building physics questions while Karen is the continuity editor. Both of them maintain the world building wiki, which started life as a 300k word three ring binder that he had handwritten while he was late night clerking on the graveyard shift at a hotel and according to the last publicly given word count (circa ~Jan 2015) has ~400k words in it. The wiki he uses specifically is Wikidpad I'm not entirely clear whether this is EVERYTHING or just the Cosmere stuff. But he's released a lot of stuff since then so it's probably at like close to ~1m words by now. Incidentally I got to the point of NaNoWriMo last week where I got fed up with my ~42 page Google Doc and started up my own wiki using TiddlyWiki. It is SOOOOOOOO much easier than using a laggy Google Doc, though I will be screwed when it gets really big. Then again I'm not writing anything as ambitious as the Cosmere so I'll probably be fine.
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Nov 22, 2021 05:34
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Ugh. Where's option #3, which is "I hate worldbuilding but I also hate handwaving everything with 'magic'"?DropTheAnvil posted:I think Sanderson talked about this before. He wants the reader to be able to figure out how the characters use magic/world to solve their dilemmas, so his magic system has to have rules and limitations that the reader understands. This was contrasted against Lord Of The Rings' magic system which focuses more on being magical and mystical, rather than having clearly defined rules and limitations. It's Sanderson's First Law: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/sa...%20some%20time. quote:An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic. It's really just an anti-deus ex machina writing guideline. I don't think magic systems need to be as extensively defined as Sanderson's tend to be (i.e. magic as science) for it to be used to solve conflict; it more depends on the level of foreshadowing involved. Like the ending to Wurtz & Feist's Empire trilogy is clearly based on a religious miracle that we don't really understand, but I buy it because it was well foreshadowed so I didn't feel cheated when I read it about. Contrast that to the end of the Lightbringer series which had a similar religious miracle that made me seriously mad to the point where I wanted to throw my Kindle out the window.
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Dec 31, 2021 22:33
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My turn to ask for a blurb crit  ! This is for a new adult single POV first in series fantasy novel (approx 110k words though who knows, the word count keeps climbing during revision) that I plan to self-publish.quote:Petition (Resonance Crystal Legacy: Volume 1) It is wordy and far too long and terrible and I am terrible at blurbs  My comparable titles (inasmuch as my crappy MS Paint efforts resemble actual works of art ) are:
I'm also looking for beta readers. If this sounds like it might be something you would enjoy, then please PM me (or if you don't have PMs then let me know where I can reach you in the thread). Leng fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Dec 30, 2023 |
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Jan 4, 2022 02:49
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Those are some amazing, comprehensive crits. Thank you! Here's a revised version that eliminates most of the Fantasy Proper Nouns, adds magic system flavor with more of a focus on Rahelu and bringing up Petition Day earlier: quote:Petition (Resonance Crystal Legacy: Volume 1) Nae posted:- I'll beta read for you. Shoot me a PM and I can turn around some thoughts in like three weeks or so. Thank you, that would be amazing! I will PM you by the end of the week (I'm hoping I can nail some revisions on the opening first, as it currently sucks).
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Jan 4, 2022 06:24
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rohan posted:Also: admittedly, I’m not across publishing trends, but I’m not sure why this is “new adult” as opposed to YA? My understanding was that “new adult” leans more toward late teens and might cover more mature themes such as sexuality, or gaining independence, which don’t seem to be covered here. Judging by the blurb, I was imagining the protagonist to be no older than a young teen — I think if she’s meant to be older, this could be made more clear. DropTheAnvil posted:
Thank you both SO MUCH for asking these questions. It made me realize that I've been waaaaay too close to this and I've completely left out the new adult angle. Rahelu is 17 so there is messy learning to adult stuff, including some more explicit language, sexuality and violence than I would include if it were YA, but it's also not quite adult and not grimdark. The heavy focus on the Guild means everyone is taking "magic school" away from the blurb when the book doesn't spend any time at magic school because it is about what happens post magic college graduation. Like we're talking fantasy job applications where it's a Shark Tank meets The Apprentice cage match. Here's take 3: quote:Petition (Resonance Crystal Legacy: Volume 1) rohan posted:It sounds like a fun read and I’ve read and enjoyed at least some of your comps, so I’d also be happy to be a beta reader when you’re ready DropTheAnvil posted:I can beta read for you if you wish! We've conversed in newt's Night City Thread, so you know my style. Thank you both! Will PM you later this week. PS: DropTheAnvil I was gonna PM you with the hopes of convincing you to beta read for me regardless of whether you responded in this thread because the comprehensive crit you did for newts was incredible and I loved it.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:14
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rohan posted:I’m wondering if you should focus even less on the school aspect than you are now? “She barely graduates” is a bit of whiplash in the second para as it’s being set up as a magic school blurb before that’s ripped away from us. Loving these edits! I've been so caught up with setting the scene that I've kept trying to put more detail in there than it really needs. rohan posted:The one thing I think your new blurb’s missing is a hint of conflict Thanks to my decision to include messy adulting stuff, there's actually a bucket load of conflict in the book, but trying to summarize it in a blurb is hell. I prob need to do something to telegraph the sex and violence content in the blurb (which come in the later chapters of the book and won't necessarily be apparent from the sample chapters), before I get terrible 1-star reviews on Amazon from people who are like "I bought this book for my 13 year old kid! And to my horror, there are explicit things in there! TERRIBLE" Let me take this away and keep working on it. Thanks again thread for the amazing feedback!
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Jan 5, 2022 18:54
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rohan posted:Also, “fantasy Shark Tank meets the Apprentice cage match” is a pretty compelling hook that I’m not really getting from the blurb as written, unfortunately. Alright, here's take 4: quote:Rahelu is a natural at the resonance disciplines: the ability to manipulate emotional echoes to discern truth from lies, conjure the past or even foretell the future. Her parents sold everything and upended their life for her to train at the Guild—but she’s still a foreign fisher brat, despised by the other wealthier, more privileged trainees. I think I'm getting closer to hitting all the right vibes?
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Jan 5, 2022 20:39
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newts posted:It’s really disheartening to me that you’re getting this kind of response. I understand the need for the Own Voices movement, but does that mean every character you write must match your own identity? Nae posted:There are millions of talented writers out there, and millions more got time to write when COVID forced them to stay home. Your writing doesn't have to match your identity, but publishers have no incentive to take it when they can take one of the thousands of other stellar submissions from people whose identities and manuscripts match up. change my name posted:But drat, that "why is this necessary to your story?" thing is so well worn at this point as a classic barrier to increasing diversity in books. I can't understand the opposition to someone trying to write genuinely authentically from a POV that doesn't match their identity. We're already pigeonholed enough as it is by our identities in real life: reading is one way of trying to understand how someone else would see the world, so it makes sense that writing would be another. SurreptitiousMuffin posted:nobody should be barred from telling a particular story, the problem is telling it badly, and if it's outside your experience then you've got more work to do to make it good. This, basically. And with things like these, it's obvious who has done the legwork and who hasn't. There are a billion little subtleties that someone with the lived experience knows that someone without it doesn't, and while it's impossible to get all of them right, you need to at least get the most important ones right, or risk originating/perpetuating some very damaging narratives. DropTheAnvil posted:On the flip side, how do you realize what you are writing is cringy, or could be translated the wrong way? I'm not sure there's a clear line for this. I guess I would fall back to whether or not the work is making some sort of attempt at posing a deeper question, beyond just light entertainment value. Like I could forgive an author for getting things wrong while trying to explore what it means to be XYZ if they're making a genuine effort to tackle the issues. And because some of these issues are complex and nuanced, there isn't necessarily a definitive truth for some of these experiences either. I think as long as what's been represented as the character's experience does ring true to someone who has had that lived experience, then that's okay—the work is just representing that facet of the lived experience, not claiming that that is the ONLY version of the lived experience. It's also easy to ignore a work that is clearly using a cringy thing for lulz, because I'm not going to waste my time critiquing something where the author has zero intention to take serious critique. But for the stuff in the middle, I think I would start by at least raising the issue and seeing how the author responds. Sometimes they really don't know that it's an issue. And as long as they're open to learning and taking critique on board and addressing it, that's okay. What's not okay is when critique from a sensitivity perspective has been given, and the author blithely ignores it, after being warned of the damage the inaccurate representation can cause.
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Jan 6, 2022 02:11
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Sailor Viy posted:Does anyone have any suggestions for reflecting on one's own writing practice? For example, I started keeping a book of "writing wisdom" that I write in whenever I've thought of something worth remembering (often these insights are specific to me rather than general). I also did a post mortem on my last novel, which I didn't finish. I tried to identify lessons and pitfalls to avoid so I would still get something productive out of the work. I should probably do something similar with my writing successes, to pick out what worked well so I can do that more. I set a specific goal for each project and then also specific KPIs to measure the activities that lead to that goal. I limit it to 4 KPIs because more than that gets messy. One is words per hour, when drafting. The other 3 KPIs are all related to structure, prose and overall quality of writing and get measured based on reader feedback. I do a reflection after every project against my goal and my KPIs on what I did well, what I can do better and what I should have done differently. Some of these get posted as vlogs, others just stay in my journal. As part of this, I consider if there are any themes in the feedback I get from my writing group - usually there is something and that'll be what I try to work on next. I yell at myself real time by commenting in line on my draft. Writing down the negative thoughts just helps me move on because I know I won't forget them and then I go back later and can (sometimes) laugh at own ridiculousness (and the other times I just fix the issue). If I get stalled over a particular word choice or world building decision or what have you, I just put "XXX" and move on for that first draft. Those get filled out later in a subsequent pass. This has been great for getting the first draft out but terrible for revision. Sometimes it's also just pattern recognition. Like I know when I get stuck, it's usually because there's a structural issue and I don't know what the conflict is. Once I get clarity on that, it's relatively easy to keep moving forward. Staggy posted:One thing I do is keep a written record (I use a spreadsheet) of every time I sit down and write. I record the (rough) time I start, the duration, the words written and so on and calculate things like words written per minute/hour. I log every writing session too. Here's the spreadsheet I use if anyone wants it: https://bit.ly/2U1601w Seconding the need to track and collect data though. I went and did an analysis of the number of hours each chapter and scene took vs the number of comments, the kind of comments I left for myself and XXX placeholders and it was illuminating, in the sense that my brain is a completely inaccurate judge. Scenes that felt like they took forever weren't actually that bad, and there was also zero correlation between hours taken and the number of comments and placeholders. The thing I haven't figured out how to track accurately is revision. Word count is a terrible measure because during revision it's not about getting the words down on the pages anymore, it's about getting the right words on the page in the right order. Hours is also terrible because the scope of revision needed on every scene is so different. All I know right now is if we measure by net WPH, then on average, I draft twice as fast as I revise. 
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Jan 11, 2022 12:08
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Staggy posted:This is something I struggle with as well. The best approach I've found so far has been time per scene but only looking at broader trends/averages. Like you say, time spent on scene 5 versus scene 6 isn't particularly helpful; however, average time per scene in Act 1 versus Act 2 versus Act 3 can be useful in identifying the areas I struggle with in the first draft. I tried categorizing scenes (e.g. "I take X minutes to revise a dialogue-heavy scene versus Y minutes for an action-heavy scene of comparable length") but didn't get much out of it. Wallet posted:I don't really focus much on the measurement. It might ultimately provide useful insight, but some scenes I end up rewriting six times while other scenes arrive fully formed in draft two and ten revisions later remain unchanged spare the addition of three dialogue tags. So far I've only been able to think of two alternative metrics that might be useful. The first is "number of first draft words revised per hour". As in, if scene X is 2000 words long, and you spend 1 hour to finish your current revision pass on that scene, you're revising 2000 words per hour. I think this is the metric Sanderson uses when he updates his progress bars. He writes about 2000-3500 words a day (at around 500 words per hour) but he's been on record about revising much faster (I can't find the quote right now but I have something like 10k words a day in my head). You'd have to be pretty structured about doing separate revision passes for this to be a reliable measure. Like doing a pass for subtext is going to be different than doing a pass for word choice or filling in descriptive details or eliminating unnecessary words, and you'd also have to chunk it up, probably at the scene level. Which I, so far, have not been and is really slowing me down. The second is related, in that it's also the "number of hours spent revising" but instead of by scene, it's scoped on the nature of the revision (e.g. add subtext, change motivations, add new scene, continuity issues, etc) because that's what really dictates how long the revision will take. Nailing all of the subtext and motivations in a heavy emotional scene is much harder than punching up the pacing in an action sequence because I have to think several layers deeper.I haven't been organized with tracking this for my alpha read revisions but I will give it a shot when I start doing beta read revisions. Wallet posted:Trying to compare across them seems futile. I'd love to see a writing program that keeps a record of how many words I type in a session, instead of how many words the document ends up having in it. Scrivener does track this - and it tracks both words written and words deleted. I haven't personally ever used it so can't speak to how useful it is. Wallet posted:I've also found that I have been able to make things move along faster by keeping pages (on a local wiki) with writing reference information Ever since I've switched from a bloated Google Doc to a wiki to organize all my notes, I have not looked back. Wikis are a lifesaver. The only thing I hate about TiddlyWiki is sometimes I need to embed images and since the wiki is a single .html file, that kinda sucks.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:04
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Junpei posted:
Can vouch that it is helpful for diagnostic purposes when a scene or an interaction just feels kind of off. I wouldn't do it on an entire manuscript either, not even a short story or a chapter; just the parts where the flow doesn't feel quite right and if alpha and beta readers haven't been able to articulate what's bothering them.
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Jan 20, 2022 07:26
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I was going to put this in the self-publishing thread, except this is relevant to traditionally published authors too so books are now just...falling into the ocean apparently: https://twitter.com/mariskreizman/status/1487108487750504449 To contribute something of value - earlier this week on one of my daily writing streams, somebody suggested this outlining tool in the chat: https://iulianionescu.com/blog/master-outlining-and-tracking-tool-v3-0/ I have not personally tried it yet, and despite my love of all things spreadsheets, it does strike me as somewhat overengineered (there's literally a tab for tracking character genealogy which imo is now into world building notes territory instead of just outlinine), but kaom has been struggling with her outlining and this is apparently helping so if you are too, then maybe try this out. PS: @Dr. Kloctopussy or a mod, any chance of editing this as a resource into the OP? Leng fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 22:42
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sebmojo posted:it was like a regular book, just the only punctuation was ellipses. So imagine a regular book, but when you would normally have commas or fullstops: ellipses. Please post book title and author so I can read this and educate myself. This sounds fascinating!
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Feb 7, 2022 00:36
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sebmojo posted:It is called weetbix emperor and was self published so may not be possible unfortunately sebmojo posted:i read it 30 years ago and don't have a copy lol. i'll see if i can find one though. Oh the author's a Kiwi! SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Leng's in Aussie, right? I'm sure we could mail a copy across the ditch. A corresponding copy doesn't seem to exist across the pond here but I do have family in Auckland so the next time I'm there visiting, I'll see if my family's up for a nice little road trip to swing by Wellington and take advantage of those legal deposit requirements.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:37
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Stuporstar posted:It’s amazing how much grammar I’ve force-injected into my formerly unwilling brain while trying to build a conlang based on Ancient Egyptian. Adding to the general  at your awesome deconstruction of grammar. Because I suck at grammar, do you have a list of resources you used to research all this in your conlang quest, because I'd love to upskill myself in this regard.Nae posted:the Hanahaki flower disease* I...what?  How did this even get started as a trope? Is it the kind of thing where one fic takes off and spawns a thousand imitators as a result and becomes insanely popular?
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Feb 21, 2022 04:01
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Stuporstar posted:The two best things I ever did to get a better handle on English was: I was raised bilingual but I've never tried learning another language as an adult! Even trying to learn more of my native language now as an adult I'm so focused on vocabulary most of the time that I don't really focus on the linguistics bit. It doesn't help that Cantonese has both formal and informal forms for both vocabulary (this does my head in) and grammar (I think...) too. Stuporstar posted:And, if your interest lies in fiddling about with a conlang, this video series is great. He explains the absolute core basics of grammar in the process as well, as in the cool poo poo grammar teaching doesn’t even cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHK1gO2Mh68&list=PL6xPxnYMQpqsooCDYtQQSiD2O3YO0b2nN I stumbled across this last year when I was trying to come up with names that would sound like they all came from a certain region. The whole series just absolutely blew my mind with the intricacies involved in making a conlang. Sitting Here posted:stuporstars amazing effort posts that basically make this forum worth the cost of admission Could we please get links or those effort posts added to the OP? Because stuporstars just dropped some amazing knowledge. I honestly am going to have to bookmark those posts and come back and read them repeatedly, because I'm not sure that I 100% followed all of it.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:58
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