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Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Wilder looked pretty terrible in my opinion. Slow, lethargic, very inactive, and let Washington mostly outjab him throughout the fight. Maybe it was ring rust/inactivity, but if he shows up looking like that against Anthony Joshua, or even Joseph Parker, he probably gets sparked out.

Hopefully Wilder/Parker happens next. Wilder has had precious few relevant fights, and Gerald Washington was another light touch.

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Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

MMM Whatchya Say posted:

Man, I can't believe Khan reached his expiration date before Pac

Who knows, really? They're both compromised at this point. Manny is a 38 year old speed reliant fighter with almost 70 pro fights under his belt and who hasn't had a KO in 8 years. Khan has at least looked keener to follow smarter game plans since he hooked up with Virgil Hunter, and he still has his speed, only being 30 years old. He's bigger, faster, and younger than Pacquiao, and if Khan does lose by KO, it would be a pretty strong indicator that he's completely shot at an elite level.

On paper, Khan should by all rights win this fight. But he's a bit of a mess, mentally, and he's been known to fight very stupidly. It's a pick 'em fight in my eyes.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

MMM Whatchya Say posted:

I'd buy your talk on Pac if he didn't look great against both Bradley and Vargas last year, who are about the same level as Khan. He knocked them down too. I don't really see the sourness on Pac right now.

I'm more focused on Pacquiao's lack of knockouts. If he can't knock Khan out, can he outpoint a bigger, faster, younger fighter with elite skills over 12 rounds? Khan has more physical talent than either Bradley or Vargas. Everyone that Khan has lost to has either knocked him out or been bigger than him, or both.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Marching Powder posted:

wanna get some people's thoughts on garcia / thurman.

Thurman should win fairly comfortably. Garcia has been exceedingly lucky in some of his fights. He could easily have multiple losses, instead of being undefeated.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

If Garcia wins I would be legitimately shocked. I don't see a single advantage for him in this fight. Not to mentioned his best wins (Morales, Khan, Matthyse) were mainly due to him being bigger and stronger than his opponent. He flat lost to Mauricio Herrera and has looked bad in more than a couple other fights.

Thurman (assuming he wins) vs the winner of Brook/Spence is the real marquee fight of the division.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Haye's shots are wild and he looks really slow.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Haye getting more comfortable, settling into boxing Bellew. Hard to see how Bellew wins this unless he catches and hurts Haye.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

HOLY SHIIITTTTT!!!!

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Bellew has been landing flush on Haye for 2 rounds straight and still can't hurt him. What a joke.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Haye is totally done and Bellew punched himself out. LOL.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

butros posted:

I'm really new to watching boxing but this is really unusual right?

Yeah this is quite unusual. It looks like Haye hurt himself and can't fight much anymore, and Bellew is punched out and cant hurt Haye anyway.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Bellew should just jab and stay away and instead he's gonna keep charging in with sloppy shots and potentially get himself KOed. Lol.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Well that was loving weird.

Haye needs to retire. Bellew needs to go back to cruiserweight immediately.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Lol all this postfight talk about Bellew being a star and doing a rematch. Bellew is a fat scouser who can't break an egg at heavyweight and Haye needs to hang them up immediately.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Bring on Thurman vs the winner of Brook/Spence.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Apparently Demetrius Andrade is fighting some German guy in Germany for the WBA "regular" title this Saturday. Crazy how badly that guy's career has gone the last couple years. In another universe, he's headlining PPVs by now.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

He had 1 fight in 2014, 1 fight in 2015, and 1 fight in 2016. That was after winning a world title in 2013. Since winning his title in 2013, he's fought 3 stiffs in 3 years and found himself stripped of his only title. Considering he's been a titlist since 2013, he could have gotten fights with Lara and Alvarez by now. If he won those, maybe he moves up to 160 and is in talks to fight Golovkin by now. He should be on that level of opponent. Instead he's fighting Jack Culcay, who is a total zero other than the fact that he owns a sanctioning body trinket. And Andrade has to go over to Germany to fight the guy, which means he will be seen by precious few American eyes.

Hopefully after he gets past Culcay, assuming he doesn't get robbed in Germany, he starts getting big fights immediately. There's really no excuse now, with his promotional problems out of the way and the division being pretty stacked with Alvarez, Lara, the Charlos, and now Erickson Lubin and Jarrett Hurd. His career is still salvageable, but he just lost 3 years of his prime and even after the Calcay fight, his best win will still be against Vanes Martirosyan in 2013, which means it will take him 4~ years until he fights someone as good as Martirosyan (or better). Pretty brutal.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Pacquiao vs Khan is seemingly cancelled, after it turns out the UAE offer of $38 million to make the fight happen wasn't real. Not surprising, but I was looking forward to this fight.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Demetrius Andrade eked out an unimpressive SD against nobody Jack Culcay in Germany today; a fight that I imagine less than 100 Americans saw in real time. Lol.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Lemieux's power is so sick. Hope Stevens is alright but he should think about hanging 'em up.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

That was the best night of boxing in quite some time.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Jack B Nimble posted:

What causes that relative inaction from Golovkin? Was it something visible in the fight, like Jacob's lateral movement and stance switching keeping Golovkin from getting his feet set/finding his rhythm, or something more internal like a possible Golovkin injury or the timing/reflexes not being there? I'm assuming it's a thousand little things that have to be there for the punches to not be forced and since Jacob's is a well regarded boxer/puncher it was harder for Golovkin to have a high punch out.

I guess I'm just noticing that sometimes the skillful activity you're watching in the ring is actually most evidenced by what the opponent isn't doing. Golovkin wasn't as busy in that fight as I thought he would be, but I'm thinking that's Jacob's achievement rather than Golovkin's failure.

Jacobs kept moving to prevent GGG from being able to get set. Switching southpaw was another way to change up the look he was giving GGG.

Jacobs really boxed almost a perfect fight. If he didn't get knocked down and he was a touch busier, he may have won on the cards. As it is, I can't see Jacobs not beating everyone else at 160, if he decides to even stay there. It seems like he'd handle himself just fine at 168 as well.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

EmmyOk posted:

Hello friends I really like MMA but would like to start watching boxing too but it seems very hard to get into as a sport compared to MMA. I've the GGG card from this weekend waiting for me at home but what fighters should I be getting familiar with? I've rewatched old Tyson fights (around the Berbick era) fairly constantly the last few years.

Sites like Badlefthook, Boxingscene, and Fightnews are very helpful to keep track of what is going on in the sport.

Outside of the heavyweight division, fighters that appear most often on pound for pound top 10 lists are also the most relevant fighters to follow.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

The Ring magazine released their all time heavyweight list in the latest issue:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. George Foreman
8. Joe Frazier
9. Mike Tyson
10. Sonny Liston
T11. Lennox Lewis
T11. Evander Holyfield
13. Gene Tunney
14. John L Sullivan
15. Jim Jeffries
16. Wladimir Klitschko
17. Vitali Klitscko
18. James Corbett
19. Riddick Bowe
20. Bob Fitzsimmons

Pretty ridiculous list in my opinion, that pretty much totally starts to fall apart after the top 7. Having Mike Tyson over Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis is indefensible, and having Lewis outside of the top 10, who was the dominant heavyweight of the 1990s (one of the strongest eras in the heavyweigh division) is also totally insane. Liston is way too high, having the dominant Klitschkos barely above flash in the pan Riddick Bowe is nuts, etc etc.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Mikkel Kessler is basically shot and hasn't fought in 4 years, really hope he's not actually coming back.

And the Super Six was great, though it probably ruined Andre Dirrell's career. He lost a decision he should have been given against Carl Froch, and then Arthur Abraham gave him a neurological problem by illegally hitting him while he was down. Dirrell ended up a huge waste of talent after that.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Mairis Briedis just comfortably decisioned Marco Huck in Germany, as the new generation of Cruiserweight begins to take shape. With the win, Briedis takes the vacant WBC cruiserweight title.

Oleksandr Usyk has the WBO title, taken from his win over Krzysztof Glowacki, and Murat Gassiev has the IBF title from his win over Denis Lebedev. We just have to wait for the winner of Yunier Dorticos/Beibut Shumenov to decide the WBA champion (assumably Dorticos), and we will have 4 entirely new cruiserweight champions within the last 9 months, setting up a new generation of cruiserweight and moving on from the relatively disappointing Cunningham/Huck/Lebedev/Hernandez generation.

It would fun to have a unification mini-tourney of Usyk/Gassiev/Briedis/Dorticos. Maybe something like that could happen - even as imminently as the upcoming World Boxing Super Series, if they choose cruiserweight as one of the 2 divisions for their tournaments.

Cigar Aficionado fucked around with this message at Apr 2, 2017 around 19:01

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Lebedev was robbed against Huck.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

mike- posted:

I'll give ward credit, I never thought he would actually agree to a rematch.

He didn't really have a choice, as there was a rematch clause. His options were vacating his belts and looking like a huge bitch, or retiring.

Anyway apparently Guillermo Rigondeaux vs Moises Flores will be on the undercard. That's already a really good card then.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Marching Powder posted:

Who's Moises and why is he making you excited for a Rigondeaux fight?

He's a 25-0 interim-titlist who's 5'9, huge for a super bantamweight. He's the first really relevant fight Rigondeaux has taken since he fought Joseph Agbeko at the end of 2013. He's also a Mexican with a typical Mexican style, so he'll almost certainly be pushing the fight along.

I mean, Rigondeaux will still almost definitely win, but he struggled a bit with another huge super-bantam in Hisashi Amagasa a few fights ago, and Flores is better than Amagasa was.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

I thought it was pretty great. The first two rounds, with Kovalev basically dominating and knocking Ward down, put some real drama into things.

I do hope Kovalev wins this time around, but I think that Ward, with 12 rounds experience behind him, will have figured Kovalev out and win a more comfortable decision this time. Plus, Kovalev has looked oddly average down the stretch of his last two fights. I think Ward has more left in the tank than Kovalev does at this point in their careers.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

I'm going to be really surprised if Joshua doesn't win this fight.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Best heavyweight championship fight since at least Vitali/Lewis, and with a definitive ending. Couldn't have had a better coming out for Anthony Joshua. He's going to be almost impossible to beat in the next few years. I don't see anyone who would be even close to the favourite against him.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

I'd say the 5 biggest fights that could be made in boxing right now would be:

1. Canelo Alvarez vs Gennady Golovkin
2. Anthony Joshua vs Deontay Wilder
3. Andre Ward vs Sergei Kovalev II
4. Manny Pacquiao vs Terence Crawford
5. Keith Thurman vs the Errol Spence/Kell Brook winner


Ratios and Tendency posted:

Parker's top 10 level. He's athletic, has fast hands and good discipline. He's not an elite boxer though in terms of brain and footwork and he's small compared to the current top guys.

Parker is undefeated and has the WBO title. He's top 5, ranked anyway. You're right though, he's not on someone like Joshua's level. I'd like to see him fight someone like Luis Ortiz or Kubrat Pulev.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

thehappyprince posted:

parker should move down. what does he weigh in at?

He's 6'4 240, he's not small, but he's probably "average" sized in today's heavyweight landscape. In order to beat the big elite guys, he'd need some sort of extraordinary gift (speed, power, defence). He doesn't seem to have one, so he's probably screwed. He's a legit contender, but he's more aligned to the Ortiz/Pulev/Povetkin tier than the Joshua/Wilder/Fury/Klitschko elite tier.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

VOTE YES ON 69 posted:

Who wants to see pacman get in a ring in 2017? Yeesh

He's still the biggest name in the sport by default.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Skip My Posts posted:

Boxing dudes, is Joshua legit or is Wlad old and lovely now? He looked nice.

He's absolutely legit. Wlad may have lost a step, but it didn't look like it against Joshua. I haven't seen him move as well as he did against Joshua since he was in his 20s, and while I always thought Wlad was a bit of a fraud, this fight dispelled that notion. He's (along with his brother Vitaly) by far the best heavyweight over the past 15 years.

As for Joshua, I've never seen someone his size move as well as he does. He's also won an Olympic gold medal and climbed to the top of the heavyweight division in under 5 years. The only other guys who have done that off the top of my head are Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, and George Foreman, who are all top 10 heavyweights of all time.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Klitschko/Joshua, Ward/Kovalev II, Canelo/Golovkin... 2017 is shaping up to be a huge year for boxing.

Pity that this fight was a total joke. Let's hope Chavez goes back to smoking bowls poolside for the rest of his life.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Yeah Chavez just sucks.

Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

I was really impressed with Errol Spence. Brook was as stiff an opponent as it gets, the fight was in Brook's backyard, and Spence got through a pretty tough first half of the fight and then adjusted and began to dominate.

I'd tap Spence to beat anyone at 147. Pacquiao, Thurman, whoever.

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Cigar Aficionado
Nov 1, 2004

"Patel"? Fuck you.

Yeah, Joshua is only 27, he has plenty of time, and another Klitschko fight would help him and the division. Fury needs time to come back and Wilder would help a future fight with Joshua if he was able to beat Joseph Parker first.

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