Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«116 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Eiba
Jul 26, 2007



flosofl posted:

To be fair, the point of criticism is not necessarily to hate on a thing. And in this point I think grilldos is trying to counter the gushing of "PERFECT EPISODE" with some valid arguments. And let's be honest, while I think it was a good episode and I enjoyed it, it was far from a perfect episode.

For honest criticism, I think the hope is that the show runners DO pay attention to it and use it constructively to improve and address the shortcomings.
I don't think there was any rush of "perfect episode!" here though.

He even said he was responding to praise it got elsewhere.

As someone who enjoyed the episode (personal taste) it seemed... kind of excessive. Especially since my impression of the thread is that it was oddly down on it. Though I suppose I can understand where he's coming from. People disagreeing with your opinion sticks in your head more (hence me remembering mainly criticism in this thread, when it was probably more balanced) and eventually you gotta say something.


Edit: What a lame first post on the page. Sorry. I should probably resist posting about posting more.

Eiba fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2017 around 05:10

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

gohmak
Feb 12, 2004
cookies need love


Eiba posted:

I don't think there was any rush of "perfect episode!" here though.

He even said he was responding to praise it got elsewhere.

As someone who enjoyed the episode (personal taste) it seemed... kind of excessive. Especially since my impression of the thread is that it was oddly down on it. Though I suppose I can understand where he's coming from. People disagreeing with your opinion sticks in your head more (hence me remembering mainly criticism in this thread, when it was probably more balanced) and eventually you gotta say something.


Edit: What a lame first post on the page. Sorry. I should probably resist posting about posting more.

One person's well articulated lovely opinions can often sour the whole mood of a thread.

I for one didn't need shots of Miller stalking across a room to brood over Julie's personal effects. We got Bobby Draper feeling the soil of her home world through armored hand while looking at an overlay of a brighter Martian future. The audience understands what drives her.

His complaints about Thoth station reeks of "It didn't live up to my book expectations." The scene was fine. The lack of "tactical realism" is due to these belters not knowing what the gently caress they are doing. Miller goes in alone because he doesn't want them loving more poo poo up. It's like he expected a long entrenched siege with bullet time effects and commando maneuvering that wasn't required for what the scene was trying to relay.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

The inept crew's tactical shittiness was fine and written well, it allowed Tom Jane to yell at them a lot in his fun way. My issues with that scene are mostly that it was not directed well, at all, to the detriment of the effectiveness of that scene.

And again, pretty much all of the other Miller and Roci crew scenes were fun and great. The Miller/Amos scene and the lasagna scene the two obvious highlights. The ship fight was wonderfully dynamic.

I'll repeat myself again by saying my goal isn't to poo poo on the show or call all of it awful, I'm just offering a counter to the blinding praise I'm seeing for these episodes. These are issues that I hope are resolved before they turn off the less hardcore sci fi viewers that the massive marketing push is trying to snag, Game of Thrones style. Say what you want about that show, but they spend big money on great directors and it usually pays dividends. Syfy executives are notorious tinkerers and quick to pull the plug, and I don't want them to shoot themselves in the foot again here.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Blame the book authors then, they're actively working on the show scripts. There's only so much in the budget in regards to both time and money, so YMMV.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

panties


I saw that lasagna pan on Shark Tank. Immersion ruined.

ZorajitZorajit
Sep 15, 2013

No static at all...

Mu Zeta posted:

I saw that lasagna pan on Shark Tank. Immersion ruined.

I used to work at Bed Bath & Beyond. We sold something very similar, but billed for brownies. The idea was to make more crusty edges, but the effect was oveclooked AND unevenly cooked brownies. But, it would save power since it heats up more quickly because the heating surface has way more surface area, which I figured was the reason for it. At least, I told myself that rather than the prop room's real reason: "It looks space-y."

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



ZorajitZorajit posted:

I used to work at Bed Bath & Beyond. We sold something very similar, but billed for brownies. The idea was to make more crusty edges, but the effect was oveclooked AND unevenly cooked brownies. But, it would save power since it heats up more quickly because the heating surface has way more surface area, which I figured was the reason for it. At least, I told myself that rather than the prop room's real reason: "It looks space-y."

The energy required to run an oven is trivial for a ship with an Epstein drive. They’d waste more power accelerating that extra aluminum anyway.

I assumed that Martians just prefer edge pieces of lasagna.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

PARTY ON, GARTH OF IZAR


I'm glad someone told me they were making a TV series literally seconds before I ordered the books, I stopped myself and so this is all new to me

gohmak
Feb 12, 2004
cookies need love


Tighclops posted:

I'm glad someone told me they were making a TV series literally seconds before I ordered the books, I stopped myself and so this is all new to me

Go ahead and read the books anyway. It will enhance the experience.

Krakox
Oct 9, 2012


the one thing that Got Me in episode 1 was the MMC death chant about how they're going to destroy earth. That loving ruled. WHO WILL DRINK THE RIVERS AND CRUSH THE MOUNTAINS

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Next episode sneek peak, haven't seen it posted. Kind of spoilerish I'd say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwgrsXeZxMM

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

This neckbearded nerd has incredibly stupid opinions on fantasy firearms.

"Remember, Mastershakeman is literally always wrong."




I honestly didn't like the ship fight at the end since it seemed like the enemy ship took a nap instead of trying to get an angle on them to use a railgun

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



mastershakeman posted:

I honestly didn't like the ship fight at the end since it seemed like the enemy ship took a nap instead of trying to get an angle on them to use a railgun

In the book there were two stealth ships.

That’s the thing about stealth ships. How do you know that that blob that your sensors can only barely pick up isn’t actually multiple ships?

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013



Krakox posted:

the one thing that Got Me in episode 1 was the MMC death chant about how they're going to destroy earth. That loving ruled. WHO WILL DRINK THE RIVERS AND CRUSH THE MOUNTAINS
Yeah, well...

Minor spoiler, but I just can't pass up the chance to be sarcastic here:
A certain Martian marine gets a shitload less hawkish once she gets a tour of the homeworld, and realises Mother Earth has no problems crushing her right the gently caress back.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


mastershakeman posted:

I honestly didn't like the ship fight at the end since it seemed like the enemy ship took a nap instead of trying to get an angle on them to use a railgun

You don't know how ship to ship combat works. If you can't see them, you can't shoot them

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Rocksicles posted:

You don't know how ship to ship combat works. If you can't see them, you can't shoot them

Yeah, they were also using the station itself as cover. The stealth ship was supposed to defend the station, it couldn't exactly defend it by shredding it in order to get to the Rocinante.

Subyng
May 4, 2013


tooterfish posted:

Yeah, well...

Minor spoiler, but I just can't pass up the chance to be sarcastic here:
A certain Martian marine gets a shitload less hawkish once she gets a tour of the homeworld, and realises Mother Earth has no problems crushing her right the gently caress back.

Yeah when the Martian marines were being smug as gently caress I was just thinking "lol good luck invading Earth with your brittle rear end bones" but I guess that's why they have power armour.

Also I'm getting some major Ben Sisko vibes from the actor playing Fred Johnson.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Subyng posted:

Yeah when the Martian marines were being smug as gently caress I was just thinking "lol good luck invading Earth with your brittle rear end bones" but I guess that's why they have power armour.

When MCRN ships go anywhere, they burn at 1 g for extended periods so the grunts can get some training and put on some skeletal mass.

Subyng
May 4, 2013


Kesper North posted:

Yeah, they were also using the station itself as cover. The stealth ship was supposed to defend the station, it couldn't exactly defend it by shredding it in order to get to the Rocinante.

No I agree with mastershakeman. Yes they were using the station as cover, so why wasn't the stealth ship attempting to maneuver around it to get a clear shot? Maybe it was, but the way the scene was presented it seemed like the stealth ship wasn't really doing anything. Maybe waiting for the Roci to pop out of cover?

Rocksicles posted:

You don't know how ship to ship combat works. If you can't see them, you can't shoot them

Lol let's not pretend that any of us know how ship to ship combat works without rigidly defining a whole bunch of parameters (on that note, check out the game Children of a Dead Earth if you're curious about an actual space combat SIM). But strictly speaking you're still wrong because you can, for example, launch a missile that intercepts a target on the opposite side of a planetary body. But yes, the key point is that in this scene the Roci was using the station for cover, but the stealth ship still seemed a bit too complacent.

Subyng fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2017 around 01:33

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Subyng posted:

No I agree with mastershakeman. Yes they were using the station as cover, so why wasn't the stealth ship attempting to maneuver around it to get a clear shot? Maybe it was, but the way the scene was presented it seemed like the stealth ship wasn't really doing anything. Maybe waiting for the Roci to pop out of cover?


Lol let's not pretend that any of us know how ship to ship combat works without rigidly defining a whole bunch of parameters (on that note, check out the game Children of a Dead Earth if you're curious about an actual space combat SIM). But strictly speaking you're still wrong because you can, for example, launch a missile that intercepts a target on the opposite side of a planetary body. But yes, the key point is that in this scene the Roci was using the station for cover, but the stealth ship still seemed a bit too complacent.

The show made the stealth ship appear to be gigantic too, so it might just not have been able to get in there easily (or maybe to roci hurt it a lot, didn't take much to finish it off)

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007



Combat Pretzel posted:

Next episode sneek peak, haven't seen it posted. Kind of spoilerish I'd say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwgrsXeZxMM
I actually like this. It seems like a whole scene, with full context, rather than your normal teaser of random episode bits taken out of context.

It's also a really good scene by itself.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Azhais posted:

The show made the stealth ship appear to be gigantic too, so it might just not have been able to get in there easily (or maybe to roci hurt it a lot, didn't take much to finish it off)

So fly to either side of the station’s disc and ventilate the Roci from there.

Using the station as cover to buy the Roci some time is a fine idea, but I think the sequence’s timing was off. Amos was in front of the camera for too long while the enemy ship was seemingly impotent.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Subyng posted:

No I agree with mastershakeman. Yes they were using the station as cover, so why wasn't the stealth ship attempting to maneuver around it to get a clear shot? Maybe it was, but the way the scene was presented it seemed like the stealth ship wasn't really doing anything. Maybe waiting for the Roci to pop out of cover?


Lol let's not pretend that any of us know how ship to ship combat works without rigidly defining a whole bunch of parameters (on that note, check out the game Children of a Dead Earth if you're curious about an actual space combat SIM). But strictly speaking you're still wrong because you can, for example, launch a missile that intercepts a target on the opposite side of a planetary body. But yes, the key point is that in this scene the Roci was using the station for cover, but the stealth ship still seemed a bit too complacent.

You're imagining a very specific weapon to win your point. The missiles those ships fired at the Cant made a hell of a mess

A stealth ships main weapon is stealth, floating around looking to make a stinkyhole out of itself is what it does.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

We will no longer surrender this country or its people to the false song of globalism.

Diversity
is Disunity
is Weakness.


I got this avatar for being a giant shithead on ANZAC day.

They mentioned if they got close enough the torpedoes wouldn't be a problem. So I guess they've got an arming distance or something.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

They mentioned if they got close enough the torpedoes wouldn't be a problem. So I guess they've got an arming distance or something.

That’s how it works in the books, yeah.


Eiba posted:

I actually like this. It seems like a whole scene, with full context, rather than your normal teaser of random episode bits taken out of context.

It's also a really good scene by itself.

I assumed it would be the usual montage so I skipped it, but having gone back and watched it, I declare it A Good Scene and a pro click.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Platystemon posted:

That’s how it works in the books, yeah.\

And in The Hunt for Red October

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Grimey Drawer

That is How Torpedoes Work in fiction.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



withak posted:

That is How Torpedoes Work in fiction.

It’s how torpedoes work in reality, at least in the WWII era.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Smythe


Azhais posted:

The show made the stealth ship appear to be gigantic too, so it might just not have been able to get in there easily (or maybe to roci hurt it a lot, didn't take much to finish it off)

I'm guessing because it's a huge PITA, most ships run with normal life support on. When you get ready for combat, people get in space suits and then they compress the atmosphere as much as possible someone safeish and vent the rest. That prevents fires and makes venting atmosphere from holes being drilled into your ship not a big deal. Since it was just a salvage ship, the stealth ship probably opted not to get combat ready. Whoops. That means their weapons are fairly ineffective against the Roci (most of the ship isn't vital systems so most of their bullets just hit it ineffectually) but the Roci's hits count for a lot (venting atmosphere, starting fires, etc. all while people are presumably scrambling to put on their space suits).

No idea if that is what they do in the books but based on what we saw in the show that makes sense.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SWERVE



Subyng posted:

Yeah when the Martian marines were being smug as gently caress I was just thinking "lol good luck invading Earth with your brittle rear end bones" but I guess that's why they have power armour.

Plus earth has like three times their population. Mars has powered armor, but it's possible only their badass marines get it, not necessarily their rank and file troops. Yeah they burn at a G when they can, but that's still not going to stack up to an earther who's spent every second of their life in full gravity. That's not even getting into the agoraphobia that would be cooked into every Martian. Mars could definitely win a space and maybe air battle against earth, but they could wouldn't have a prayer taking and holding a square foot of the surface.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Space battles are always more interesting on TV than they are in real life.

gohmak
Feb 12, 2004
cookies need love


Pharmaskittle posted:

Plus earth has like three times their population. Mars has powered armor, but it's possible only their badass marines get it, not necessarily their rank and file troops. Yeah they burn at a G when they can, but that's still not going to stack up to an earther who's spent every second of their life in full gravity. That's not even getting into the agoraphobia that would be cooked into every Martian. Mars could definitely win a space and maybe air battle against earth, but they could wouldn't have a prayer taking and holding a square foot of the surface.

Plus you know The UN burns at 2g DBZ style.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Pharmaskittle posted:

Plus earth has like three times their population.

Seven and a half times, at the start of the series.

Mars has the tech edge, but Earth would poo poo on them all day every day in a ground war or a war of attrition.

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

It's not like Mars has the capability or desire to slog it out in a ground campaign across all 7 continents. Achieving control of low Earth orbit and threatening to nuke its cities from space should be enough to bring the UN to the bargaining table.

OB_Juan
Nov 24, 2004

Not every day is a good day.



Dinosaur Gum

Just saw the two new episodes. I think I like every character in the show. Special shoutout to Miller and Alex, though.

I couldn't tell if Fred was trying to get Dresden to unlock the data, or actually getting on board. Oh well, you brought Miller along.

Milky Moor
Aug 27, 2006


INTJ Mastermind posted:

It's not like Mars has the capability or desire to slog it out in a ground campaign across all 7 continents. Achieving control of low Earth orbit and threatening to nuke its cities from space should be enough to bring the UN to the bargaining table.

I'm pretty sure Earth would call their bluff. I think everyone in the world of the Expanse is aware how easy it is to kill civilizations once you reach space flight, and is aware that no government has the sheer insane ruthlessness to do it.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SWERVE



Milky Moor posted:

I'm pretty sure Earth would call their bluff. I think everyone in the world of the Expanse is aware how easy it is to kill civilizations once you reach space flight, and is aware that no government has the sheer insane ruthlessness to do it.

Yeah, the U.S. has had unquestionable air superiority in every recent war, but you still can't really do anything but nearly indiscriminately kill people with it alone. You can level a capital city into dirt, but you're going to mostly kill people who weren't fighting you in the first place, and it makes it harder to get what you want out of everyone who saw you do it. Earth is more useful to Mars as a tense ally or even hostile trade partner than a hosed up hostage state or lifeless rock. To do anything productive with a war, they'd have to land troops, and they'd have 100% casualties if they did that.

Edit: really, earth and mars are at a total stalemate because neither of them could realistically subjugate the other, which presumably the writers put some thought into making a fact

Pharmaskittle fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2017 around 05:24

Bates
Jun 15, 2006


Well they're basically fighting for control of resources and strategic assets in space right? So the victor would take the spoils even if neither has any interest in wiping out or invading the home turf of the other.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011




OB_Juan posted:


I couldn't tell if Fred was trying to get Dresden to unlock the data, or actually getting on board. Oh well, you brought Miller along.

Getting on board, Fred is a zealot for the cause, Naomi constantly warned about working with him last season.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004



Nap Ghost

INTJ Mastermind posted:

It's not like Mars has the capability or desire to slog it out in a ground campaign across all 7 continents. Achieving control of low Earth orbit and threatening to nuke its cities from space should be enough to bring the UN to the bargaining table.

Heck, don't even need to hold LEO; anybody in a higher orbit can ostensibly "throw rocks", as characters occasionally point out.

bitprophet fucked around with this message at Feb 12, 2017 around 23:33

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«116 »