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Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SWERVE



Bates posted:

Well they're basically fighting for control of resources and strategic assets in space right? So the victor would take the spoils even if neither has any interest in wiping out or invading the home turf of the other.

Sure, but none of the non-earth spoils include food and oxygen that can sustain either mars or the belt, let alone both. Mars could probably remain self sufficient if they turned inwards, let the belt die, and focused entirely on life support. That wouldn't be a good plan.

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Snowman Crossing
Dec 4, 2009



Pharmaskittle posted:

Yeah, the U.S. has had unquestionable air superiority in every recent war, but you still can't really do anything but nearly indiscriminately kill people with it alone. You can level a capital city into dirt, but you're going to mostly kill people who weren't fighting you in the first place, and it makes it harder to get what you want out of everyone who saw you do it. Earth is more useful to Mars as a tense ally or even hostile trade partner than a hosed up hostage state or lifeless rock. To do anything productive with a war, they'd have to land troops, and they'd have 100% casualties if they did that.

Edit: really, earth and mars are at a total stalemate because neither of them could realistically subjugate the other, which presumably the writers put some thought into making a fact

One of the enduring themes from the novels is that Earth and Mars have a respect for each other based on MAD principles, and basically everyone on a gravity-well biome is well-aware of how proper hosed humanity is if a conflict escalates beyond conventional warfare to scorched earth. With the Epstein drives and remote guidance, it's trivially easy to accelerate dense masses to speeds that hit Earth/Luna/Mars/Asteroid bases with enough energy to put the largest nukes to shame. If the TV series continues to follow the narrative thread of the books, this point will be reinforced several times. The Belters are the unpredictable wild card simply because they're super angry and used to scraping a tenuous existence out in the scarcity of the outer planets.

tooterfish posted:

Yeah, well...

Minor spoiler, but I just can't pass up the chance to be sarcastic here:
A certain Martian marine gets a shitload less hawkish once she gets a tour of the homeworld, and realises Mother Earth has no problems crushing her right the gently caress back.

Draper might be my favorite character from a books, and IIRC that was one pretty well-written chapter when she goes down to Earth, chats with a friendly barista, has a kick-rear end coffee, and realizes that Earth isn't populated entirely by schlubs on rascal scooters sucking on the welfare teat.

Snowman Crossing fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2017 around 06:51

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Speaking of Epstein drives and scorching, PDCs and missiles are cool, but I want to see the Roci slag something with its main drive.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


I really want one of those MCRN mugs. I assumed it was just something from Stanley with a coat of paint but I see nothing like it.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SWERVE



Snowman Crossing posted:

One of the enduring themes from the novels is that Earth and Mars have a respect for each other based on MAD principles, and basically everyone on a gravity-well biome is well-aware of how proper hosed humanity is if a conflict escalates beyond conventional warfare to scorched earth. With the Epstein drives and remote guidance, it's trivially easy to accelerate dense masses to speeds that hit Earth/Luna/Mars/Asteroid bases with enough energy to put the largest nukes to shame. If the TV series continues to follow the narrative thread of the books, this point will be reinforced several times. The Belters are the unpredictable wild card simply because they're super angry and used to scraping a tenuous existence out in the scarcity of the outer planets.


Draper might be my favorite character from a books, and IIRC that was one pretty well-written chapter when she goes down to Earth, chats with a friendly barista, has a kick-rear end coffee, and realizes that Earth isn't populated entirely by schlubs on rascal scooters sucking on the welfare teat.

Yeah, I've read the books, but I'm trying to stick to only show knowledge in this thread since I don't want to spoil anything, even in tags. I want to bullshit about the show and the actual book thread is a lot slower than this one.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Mu Zeta posted:

I really want one of those MCRN mugs. I assumed it was just something from Stanley with a coat of paint but I see nothing like it.



Got your back.

Emsa 180ml City cup https://www.emsa.com/en/products/mo...-mugs/city-cup/

I think it's the red one thats aged and badged.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Rocksicles posted:

Got your back.

Emsa 180ml City cup https://www.emsa.com/en/products/mo...-mugs/city-cup/

I think it's the red one thats aged and badged.

Would pay real money for a Rocinante coffee cup. Also, nice catch.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


I want the drat log on it too. But thanks, I think Amazon has it.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Kesper North posted:

Would pay real money for a Rocinante coffee cup. Also, nice catch.

My 5 years lurking a props forum, has paid off at last

404notfound
Mar 5, 2006

stop staring at me

Reminds me of when I noticed that the mug on the Mass Effect 3 loading screen is an Ikea FARGRIK mug



Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Subyng posted:

No I agree with mastershakeman. Yes they were using the station as cover, so why wasn't the stealth ship attempting to maneuver around it to get a clear shot? Maybe it was, but the way the scene was presented it seemed like the stealth ship wasn't really doing anything. Maybe waiting for the Roci to pop out of cover?
The entity in hiding usually has an advantage over the one searching. So latter party usually treads safely.

R-Type
Oct 10, 2005


404notfound posted:

Reminds me of when I noticed that the mug on the Mass Effect 3 loading screen is an Ikea FARGRIK mug





To be fair, Bioware stole art assets in that game from everywhere, not to mention story elements and even music beats.

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


R-Type posted:

To be fair, Bioware stole art assets in that game from everywhere, not to mention story elements and even music beats.

Is there a good summary out there?

Subyng
May 4, 2013


Rocksicles posted:

You're imagining a very specific weapon to win your point. The missiles those ships fired at the Cant made a hell of a mess

A stealth ships main weapon is stealth, floating around looking to make a stinkyhole out of itself is what it does.

I wasn't trying to win my point, I was just being pedantic

KatWithHands
Nov 14, 2007


The sheer scope of merch SyFy should have available by now is ridiculous, way beyond t-shirts and mugs. (Because $30+ for a t-shirt on Redbubble? The gently caress outta here.) I would end up in the poor house, but I'd be surrounded by awesome Expanse bullshit.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



Pillbug

Tom Janes and Amos continue to be the best parts of this show. I'm slogging my way through the latest book and those episodes reminded me that the series used to be sort of fun.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

KatWithHands posted:

The sheer scope of merch SyFy should have available by now is ridiculous, way beyond t-shirts and mugs. (Because $30+ for a t-shirt on Redbubble? The gently caress outta here.) I would end up in the poor house, but I'd be surrounded by awesome Expanse bullshit.

I was too busy getting married last year during the Overwatch craze to get any done, but I might make some PUR KLEEN shirts or something. What else would be good? Drop me a PM with suggestions.

Nihonniboku
Aug 11, 2004

YOU CAN FLY!!!

Professor Shark posted:

Tom Janes and Amos continue to be the best parts of this show. I'm slogging my way through the latest book and those episodes reminded me that the series used to be sort of fun.

Yeah, it's kind of hard for the series to continue to be fun after a handful of terrorists kill 20 billion people.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Thanks man, i just rolled over that by accident.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

The TV series will certainly stop being fun, too, if they're going to spend more than one episode on the fourth book.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007



Just a friendly reminder that the book thread exists and is a lovely place, if a bit quiet at the moment.

I'm sure no one would mind if you speculate or muse about the future of the TV adaptation in there too.

gfarrell80
Aug 31, 2006


grilldos posted:

Not all of Season 2's first pair of episodes is bad. The CGI battle scenes were a joy to watch, and all of the Miller scenes (with the exception of the Thoth Invasion) were fantastic, which I feel is mostly due to Tom Jane and the Roci actors. Tom Jane forces a scene to pace well. If you compare his scenes of Season 2 with Bobbie's, it's a night and day difference. He pauses, he collects himself physically. Do you remember how many scenes in the first season involved Tom Jane taking his time to do blocking bits like Stand Up or Cross A Room? It was all the loving time. Characters are drat near still in Season 2 unless the scene actively calls for something different.

So at the end of the day, most of these problems are directoral. Breck Eisner did these two, and he did none of Season 1's. I also would be willing to bet that Syfy really pushed for Big Action for the season premiere, so the Thoth Station invasion had to make it into the first two episodes. The editor had to really cram all of this in, with footage from a borderline director. I think in someone else's hands, maybe one of the 4 guys who directed season 1, things would have come out better. Especially if they didn't need to cram so much poo poo into these two episodes.

And finally, Thoth Station's invasion, specifically Miller's scenes once it's boarded, feels off. This is the one scene where all of the problems of this season premiere show themselves. You get the sense that, what, there are like 10 people on the station? That station is loving huge, and the direction does nothing to really give you a sense of the space. It feels like a set, in the way that (another Syfy show, one that is not good) Dark Matter's station sets feel like a set. The blocking is weird and without motivation for anyone other than Tom Jane, and when his invasion lackies shoot up the Matrix folks with hundreds of bullets, they're all facing eachother in a big circle and should have shot eachother up. Badly. Tom Jane also wanders around and immediately finds exactly what he is looking for, Dresden, one room over, on a station that is loving Gigantic, according to the ship fight that the viewer just saw minutes before. Dresden's rant feels less like the pointed words of a charismatic sociopath and more like an actor just spewing out lines quickly.

This scene reeks of bad direction from the start to the end, because the director simply went by the plot, which is the sign of a lovely director. The boarding party breaks in, kid gets shot, Miller notices gel, scolds his men, they find weird people, the weird people get mad, they shoot the weird people, Miller leaves everyone alone for some reason, he finds Dresden, Holden and Johnson show up, Dresden says insane poo poo, Miller shoots Dresden. All of this happens, and the director does nothing on his own accord to make any of it feel earned or the least bit realistic in physical flow. poo poo happens because it was written to happen.

I really do like the show, and I'm not at all saying it's poo poo and should be dropped or whatever extreme bullshit TV IV is known for. These were a pretty flawed pair of episodes with plenty still in them to enjoy. I am looking forward to getting on with it now that Syfy's blue balls orgasm of a premiere is done.


This is part of why the Thoth Invasion felt so off at the end of it, too. The invasion in the book was half an infantry battle and half Miller discovering the truth of that station, Dresden, and coming to a personal epiphany about who he is and what the system has become. There's none of the personal reflection in that scene. It's just action, baby! I'm fine with pure action, they gave it to us with the ship battle. So where's the character-driven emotional payoff I'd grown accustomed to with Season 1?

This is all good criticism. I liked both season 2 kickoff episodes and will watch out the remainder of the show enthusiastically but I think you're right on, with a little more attention episode 2 could have been improved significantly.

My question re: the Thoth station boarding is... what the heck? Command and control between the stealth ship, Dresden, and the security team seems to have been weak. Dresden seems to have just been chatting normally when Miller finally walked in to his computer screen room. Wouldn't he have been notified by somebody that the station's gun was actively engaging boarding pods, and that the stealth ship had engaged a hostile vessel?

Secondly, apparently there were some kind of private mercenary security teams on the station. If you were a security team armed with gel-firing non-lethal weapons, would you respond to a potentially hostile boarding pod? I think you'd get the lethal weapons from the armory before responding. You certainly wouldn't fire exactly one non-lethal round at a bunch of armed guys who just blasted their way on board your top secret station. And then that entire security team all got wiped out by apparent blind fire through a wall? Wasn't sure exactly what happened there.

mastershakeman posted:

I honestly didn't like the ship fight at the end since it seemed like the enemy ship took a nap instead of trying to get an angle on them to use a railgun

Subyng posted:

No I agree with mastershakeman. Yes they were using the station as cover, so why wasn't the stealth ship attempting to maneuver around it to get a clear shot? Maybe it was, but the way the scene was presented it seemed like the stealth ship wasn't really doing anything. Maybe waiting for the Roci to pop out of cover?

I liked the ship fight a lot too. When it was happening I made the same nit-pick. They could have amped up the idea that stealth ship was actively working to get an angle on the Rocinante somehow. My further nit-pick however is that the stealth ship fired exactly two missiles to destroy the 2nd OPA ship. I would have thought after the first two missiles were intercepted the stealth ship might have continued trying to blast the 2nd OPA ship.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011




Mu Zeta posted:

I want the drat log on it too. But thanks, I think Amazon has it.

Hrm, they do and the red version is now four times as expensive as the others.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004



Taco Defender

gfarrell80 posted:

Dresden seems to have just been chatting normally when Miller finally walked in to his computer screen room. Wouldn't he have been notified by somebody that the station's gun was actively engaging boarding pods, and that the stealth ship had engaged a hostile vessel?

I took this as an attempt to play up the perception of Dresden as an obsessively focused scientist in the middle of absolutely critical work, and/or someone who's so convinced in the necessity of said work that he expects to easily sway anyone who shows up waving a gun (and, well, he's not wrong, given he appeared to convince Fred at the least).

The security team thing's harder to defend; narratively, it was clearly to highlight that the (non-Dresden) scientists required forcible but nonlethal containment. But yea, you'd think a shady cabal that can finance stealth ships and advanced assault teams would be able to cope with "this station's ground forces need both nonlethal and lethal capabilities, maybe we should issue 2 sets of firearms and/or just have 2 different squads."

Dang It Bhabhi!
May 27, 2004

Thank You,
Thank You,
Thank You GOD!


Hi TVIV this made me laugh and I hope the low budget fun continues:

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



https://zippy.gfycat.com/AgileBasicCleanerwrasse.mp4

Can I embed this full‐res version? Let us see.

e: Yes, but it breaks tables.

1080p

Platystemon fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2017 around 09:11

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


fyodor posted:

Hi TVIV this made me laugh and I hope the low budget fun continues:



That's gotta be a total gently caress up... i haven't seen anything that cheap in 12 episodes

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001




fyodor posted:

Hi TVIV this made me laugh and I hope the low budget fun continues:



Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


When they showed a flashback to the belter insurrection at Anderson station it was also cheap. When it's getting pummeled with weapons you see explosions and everyone stumble around except for the lovely child actors who stand completely still.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



The best effects in the episode:

https://giant.gfycat.com/DisastrousQuickLamprey.mp4

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



Pillbug


One of the coolest things I've seen in a sci fi show in a long time, probably since the first season when the medic's head got blown away

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

Clarke has more acting talent in her brows than most other actors, including herself, have in their entire body.



fyodor posted:

Hi TVIV this made me laugh and I hope the low budget fun continues:



Yeah that was absurd, it almost felt like an intentional joke with how awful it was.

And you even see the starfield moving sideways opposite of the direction the station's spin, what could possibly make someone fall downwards in that situation.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

We will no longer surrender this country or its people to the false song of globalism.

Diversity
is Disunity
is Weakness.


I got this avatar for being a giant shithead on ANZAC day.

Yeah if they just made the starfield move in the right direction, it probably could have worked.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



https://mobile.twitter.com/CaraGeee...085015686823936

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Dominique Tipper mentioned that on her twitter earlier this week, went over my head.


Man, I love Thomas Jane. Hung is your Magnum Opus sir.
https://twitter.com/ExpanseSyfy/sta...012257162878978

Rocksicles fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2017 around 10:44

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Best line in the premiere

https://giant.gfycat.com/SmallGiantDugong.mp4

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."



Is that Fred Johnson's number 1?

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


Kingtheninja posted:

Is that Fred Johnson's number 1?

Chief of security on Tycho.

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013



emanresu tnuocca posted:

And you even see the starfield moving sideways opposite of the direction the station's spin, what could possibly make someone fall downwards in that situation.
He isn't falling downwards, he's being flung outwards. Because the only thing that stops that from happening on a spinning station is the floor.

Am I missing something here? What was supposed to happen?

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WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

We will no longer surrender this country or its people to the false song of globalism.

Diversity
is Disunity
is Weakness.


I got this avatar for being a giant shithead on ANZAC day.

tooterfish posted:

He isn't falling downwards, he's being flung outwards. Because the only thing that stops that from happening on a spinning station is the floor.

Am I missing something here? What was supposed to happen?

He should have been flung along the trajectory the stars in the background are going.

Also it looks ridiculous

WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2017 around 15:01

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