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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Ah, the standard tankie deflection tactic of "B-but these other people did bad things!" How does that make giving the UN more military power a good idea? not everyone critical of US military power is a loving tankie you idiot. the UN does good work and proper multi-lateral involvement in situations that need it would be the best approach. there have been some notable instances where command and control, or rules of engagement failed to prevent bad things from happening. as for child rape and rape. I think this is a fundamental problem with militaries in general, you train people to kill. they kill people, they also rape people. this has been true of war and of soldiers since the dawn of time.
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Feb 10, 2017 02:47
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JFairfax posted:not everyone critical of US military power is a loving tankie you idiot. when are boys start throwing child rape parties in afghanistan they're AMERICAN child rape parties, much better than UN child rape parties
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Feb 10, 2017 02:58
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BattleMoose posted:The middle east aside, the US maintains military assets in Europe, South Korea and in the west Pacific and Japan. These assets are to temper any aggressive moves or ambitions from Putin, North Korea and China. Its a good thing that there are military assets in these places to help keep the peace and limit expansion/aggression. The US military presence in Europe, by allowing our allies to field minimal military assets while still presenting a credible opposition to Russia, might make peace and cooperation in Europe easier. A Germany that needs to have an independent military capable of defending itself from Russia needs a pretty hefty force. That force, even if defensive in nature, is going to be strong enough to invade Germany's neighbors. So France and Holland and Austria all start worrying about a possible threat from Germany if the alliance falls apart, and beef up their militaries too, and the process snowballs. JFairfax posted:there may well be instances where certain countries are happy to have US presence, but they are outweighed massively by the huge wars the US wages from time to time. (perpetually) Sometimes waging those wars is a good thing.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:07
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JeffersonClay posted:So France and Holland and Austria all start worrying about a possible threat from Germany if the alliance falls apart, and beef up their militaries too, and the process snowballs. The chances of all of these countries having pro-Moscow, anti-Atlanticist governments by 2020 is fair- maybe what will keep the peace among the European nouvelle droite is their shared hate for that distant liberal rat hole (or "degenerate homostate," or "headquarters of world Jewry-" they may disagree on terms).
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Feb 10, 2017 03:57
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Also, the UN already has a standing army- it's called the IAEA. Here it is on maneuvers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOnYs2IkE60&t=9396s
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Feb 10, 2017 04:15
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JeffersonClay posted:The US military presence in Europe, by allowing our allies to field minimal military assets while still presenting a credible opposition to Russia, might make peace and cooperation in Europe easier. A Germany that needs to have an independent military capable of defending itself from Russia needs a pretty hefty force. That force, even if defensive in nature, is going to be strong enough to invade Germany's neighbors. So France and Holland and Austria all start worrying about a possible threat from Germany if the alliance falls apart, and beef up their militaries too, and the process snowballs. Great. Make them pull their own weight. I'm tired of paying for them. How they balance their budgets to do it is their problem.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:02
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:Great. Make them pull their own weight. I'm tired of paying for them. How they balance their budgets to do it is their problem. My point is you're not paying their share you're paying for peace in Europe. If they want to send us checks that's great but it's worth it even if they don't.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:07
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JeffersonClay posted:My point is you're not paying their share you're paying for peace in Europe. Peace in Europe is secured by their democracies. The idea that France, UK, Germany would go to war with each other for any reason in this day and age is just ludicrous. The governments don't want to, the people wouldn't stand for it and there is nothing to gain from it either.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:15
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Meanwhile Poland is forming paramilitary youth organisations and who the gently caress even knows what's going on in Hungary anymore.
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Feb 10, 2017 13:02
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blowfish posted:IMO we should give the UN a standing army with carriers and other force projection toys, and America should just have a token military for local defence like most other countries . What's this we poo poo? You want aircraft carriers build your own.
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Feb 10, 2017 13:47
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JFairfax posted:come on let's not act like the US doesn't have child and adult raping incompetent murderers. Actually, consensus is that the American led postwar era has been the least violent and most peaceful in history.
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Feb 10, 2017 15:33
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It's probably for the best that Europeans don't contribute much to their own defense considering the last time they were allowed to have armies they set a new world standard for barbarity.
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Feb 10, 2017 18:25
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Too bad russia will never be part of the EU
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Feb 10, 2017 18:49
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Europe needs to pony up for actual armies so I get to watch either a) their taxes take up over 50% of their GDP or b) their snooty-rear end healthcare system de facto subsidized by me get raided. I can go either way on it.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:15
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:The UN's existing peacekeeping forces have generally been incompetent at best and horrific bands of child rapists at the worst. And you want to hand them more power? yes of course then they will finally be able to rely on troops other than what amounts to penal battallions full of people so lovely even third world countries don't want them on their own streets
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Feb 10, 2017 22:07
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DeusExMachinima posted:Europe needs to pony up for actual armies so I get to watch either a) their taxes take up over 50% of their GDP or b) their snooty-rear end healthcare system de facto subsidized by me get raided. I can go either way on it. We thank you* for your service. *we don't.
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Feb 10, 2017 22:10
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LeoMarr posted:Too bad russia will never be part of the EU its not european.
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Feb 11, 2017 00:13
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hakimashou posted:its not european. Oh good, I was hoping someone would start yelling about Asiatic Bolshevism.
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Feb 11, 2017 00:17
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:We thank you* for your service. Nor should you. If Russia invaded your Pollyanna state tomorrow, I wouldn't sign up to defend poo poo until everyone in the U.N. agreed to shell out for their own logistical support network for their
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Feb 11, 2017 00:56
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It's real refreshing to hear the whole "the UN is for pedophiles" deal again. It's like I've traveled back in time to 2005.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:21
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Brainiac Five posted:Oh good, I was hoping someone would start yelling about Asiatic Bolshevism. Culturally I think they belong with sub-Saharan Africa. Strongman government, virulent homophobia, rampant HIV/AIDS, terrible public health etc.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:48
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Brainiac Five posted:It's real refreshing to hear the whole "the UN is for pedophiles" deal again. It's like I've traveled back in time to 2005.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:54
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DeusExMachinima posted:Europe needs to pony up for actual armies so I get to watch either a) their taxes take up over 50% of their GDP or b) their snooty-rear end healthcare system de facto subsidized by me get raided. I can go either way on it. Are you actually mad your country still can't figure out nationalised health care?
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Feb 11, 2017 02:00
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DeusExMachinima posted:Europe needs to pony up for actual armies so I get to watch either a) their taxes take up over 50% of their GDP or b) their snooty-rear end healthcare system de facto subsidized by me get raided. I can go either way on it. As Europe we should be perfectly capable of countering any force bar the US in our region for 2% of gdp. Iirc the Netherlands spent 4% of gdp during the cold war and we had universal healthcare back then as well. Of course it could be done more efficiently by doing away with all the duplication currently going on. But that would also mean giving up sovereignty and the last bastions of protectionism.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:40
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I don't know if the EU is going to really merge into one superstate, if that's what you mean. Wouldn't it be correct to identify the EU as a confederation? Seems like any member can leave if they really want (Brexit) whereas the U.S. obviously takes a dim view of its states trying the same.Regarde Aduck posted:Are you actually mad your country still can't figure out nationalised health care? Medicaid is one thing but I'm actually not in favor of paying some middle-class dude's regular doctor bill so he can go on an extra cruise or whatever, so nah ya'll can keep that one. More like, if I'm gonna be mad, it'll be because I can't go on an extra cruise because of my taxes going into the NATO welfare train. Brainiac Five posted:It's real refreshing to hear the whole "the UN is for pedophiles" deal again. It's like I've traveled back in time to 2005. No no that's the blue helmets specifically. The U.N. as a whole would be more like "free PR for dictators and busybodies."
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Feb 11, 2017 02:52
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I thought NATO was the local auxilia for the US military? Like, that's why all the equipment is standardized and they do all the training together, so it's easier to link up with US forces. It's like with the UN. They're both bargain priced for what we get out of them. You'd have to be an idiot to drop out of either one, it's like killing the goose that lays golden eggs cause it pooped on your lawn.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:41
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In the classic American conception of auxiliaries with the Minutemen, they were expected to buy their own guns, ammo, and train on their own to hit a certain level of competency. An army that has to have it and its supply train largely paid for by Americans or flown everywhere by the USAF or leapfrogged from one US base to another doesn't count by that definition. But feel free to go back through my posts and find out where I suggested *withdrawing* from NATO. I believe my exact words were "pull your own weight" and "get the popcorn." Just think, if we're getting a great deal now, we'll get an even better deal when we have to pay for even less!
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Feb 11, 2017 04:04
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Good grief, why would you ever want them to think they could ever be anything other than completely dependent on us? We got a good thing going now, why gently caress it up? We don't want them to pull their weight. No, you want to make a good change to our policy? Start handing out kit - we got while boneyards full of tanks we're not using, give them away. And when they need spare parts, where do they come calling? America 
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Feb 11, 2017 04:29
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