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ArmZ
Jun 5, 2004

You are what you want.





Grimey Drawer

the last scene of the show is david in a hospital bed catatonic, and it's all just one big hallucination

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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

My whole life is a dark room.
One big, dark room.


Dark Off posted:

well what if syd is real but nobody else is.

what if David's real and we're fake. makes u think *takes gigantic Vapor hit off of frog vaporizer*

I really like this show a whole, whole lot. It's doing a fantastic job at showing just how off balance Legion is without descending into incoherence. And god drat Syd and David are just the cutest, their workaround for holding hands in the pilot with the ribbon was the biggest moment I've seen in a long time.

David eventually gonna refine his powers and get incorporeally freaky with her

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

My whole life is a dark room.
One big, dark room.


ArmZ posted:

the last scene of the show is david in a hospital bed catatonic, and it's all just one big hallucination

then he wakes up to take a shower, as the camera zooms out to reveal he's inside a snow globe, which the autistic kid drops while saying "Rosebud"

Norwegian Rudo
May 8, 2013


In one of his pre-pilot interviews Hawley said pretty clearly that this wasn't a "guess the twist" show, so I don't expect any major surprises of that kind.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

She-Ra Fan Club Member #6782

Zythrst posted:

People sure do like to get judgy about everythingavatars recently huh?

Edited for you, and the answer is yes!

Gravy Jones
Sep 13, 2003

I am not on your side


I have enjoyed two episodes of this television show. It is good.

I read somewhere that Lenny was written as a middle aged guy and Aubrey Plaza only agreed todo the role if they didn't change any of the character's dialogue for her. This amuses me.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


I can't believe people are having a hard time figuring this show out, I mean I'm usually one of those guys who totally miswatches or misinterprets a show and I'm having a pretty easy time understanding it. The only mysteries that I can think of off-hand are:

- David's deal with his father, and why he can't remember his face
- What caused the time jump in David's memory, did someone tamper with his memory to try and erase any evidence of telekinesis?
- Who or what that little ugly guy is

Everything else has been answered, like if Syd is real (she is) or if the woman at the institute is real (probably) or the memory specialist guy (also probably).

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.




Bread Liar

King Vidiot posted:

- What caused the time jump in David's memory, did someone tamper with his memory to try and erase any evidence of telekinesis?

I think the time skip was when he saw the closet open and became terrified.

Gravy Jones
Sep 13, 2003

I am not on your side


King Vidiot posted:

Everything else has been answered, like if Syd is real (she is) or if the woman at the institute is real (probably) or the memory specialist guy (also probably).

I like that two out of three of your definitively answered questions still only rate a "probably"

I don't think people are having that hard a time figuring it out as such. There are some unanswered questions which some people like to speculate about. There are also some unanswerable questions due to the unreliability of not just the narrator, but the plot in general (something it has in common with things that were an obvious influence). Some people really don't like that... espcially when it turns out there's nothing to figure out.

Edit: I think the time period is an example of that. Some people are happy to accept that it's not set in any particular time, some people can't accept that and need to figure it out... or aren't bothered and just like speculating. It's all good.

Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2017 around 14:43

mrking
May 27, 2006

There's No Limit To What We Can't Accomplish


King Vidiot posted:

I can't believe people are having a hard time figuring this show out, I mean I'm usually one of those guys who totally miswatches or misinterprets a show and I'm having a pretty easy time understanding it. The only mysteries that I can think of off-hand are:

- David's deal with his father, and why he can't remember his face
- What caused the time jump in David's memory, did someone tamper with his memory to try and erase any evidence of telekinesis?
- Who or what that little ugly guy is

Everything else has been answered, like if Syd is real (she is) or if the woman at the institute is real (probably) or the memory specialist guy (also probably).

I got the impression that David was unconsciously repressing the memories they were trying to view, which manifested as time jumps. Then when they look closer he takes them all back to his childhood bedroom with that creepy rear end book.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


I'm thinking the book is connected, like that telekinetic event in the kitchen killed one or both of his parents and that's why it's tied to the book about the kid who killed his parents.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008


I read the wiki a while ago for Legion, doesn't David have multiple personalities with different powers?

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


Invalid Validation posted:

I read the wiki a while ago for Legion, doesn't David have multiple personalities with different powers?

I dont think this show will be very related to comics legion. Which is good because they would gently caress it up

Nevvy Z
Jan 3, 2004



dangerdoom volvo posted:

I dont think this show will be very related to comics legion. Which is good because they would gently caress it up

That's the quick and easy explanation for what that little chubby TK power character is who follows him around, as well as any other characters who arent real. The Shadowking theories are also interesting though, I only know him as Storm's old enemy personally.

A huge chunk of his comics recently are about him living in his head and learning ways to manage the other's that are there with him which is what I thought we were seeing throughout the first episode.

I do think that in the first episode any/all of the hospital and other past scenes had stuff going on that maybe didn't happen at the time. Green guy, the guy he saw getting out of the car that was in the room with him, and the girl when she walks out of the back of the dudes head which of course she tells us explicitly. All of these scenes were an unfriendly telepath exploring his memories. Maybe the green guy is a friendly TP spying on the bad guys?

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole

Invalid Validation posted:

I read the wiki a while ago for Legion, doesn't David have multiple personalities with different powers?

In the most recent run of Legion comics, he actually managed to de-power himself and achieve some level of stability, but that's only because he spends so much energy containing the demons within. Then Cyclops straight up murders Xavier and that kind of mindfucks him.

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.

mrking posted:

I got the impression that David was unconsciously repressing the memories they were trying to view, which manifested as time jumps. Then when they look closer he takes them all back to his childhood bedroom with that creepy rear end book.

I thought that's exactly what it was. They were looking at a memory of a therapy session when they saw the time jump. In that therapy session, David was talking with his doctor about his girlfriend leaving. She left because of his telekinetic explosion in the kitchen. He is repressing that telekinetic activity, and any thought of it, so instead of seeing that they just saw a time jump, and then after trying a second time just a brief flash of the kitchen incident. The memory guy says he'll get them there but David is so strong and so loving up that somehow he takes everyone back to his bedroom.

Poppyseed Poundcake
Feb 23, 2007


His friend is also a ghost

nomapple
Apr 27, 2012


I agree it runs down the rabbit hole too quickly, and it's hard to get attached to anything because there's nothing to hold on to. It is a fun ride though, and I will keep watching.

ArmZ
Jun 5, 2004

You are what you want.





Grimey Drawer

Gravy Jones posted:

I have enjoyed two episodes of this television show. It is good.

I read somewhere that Lenny was written as a middle aged guy and Aubrey Plaza only agreed todo the role if they didn't change any of the character's dialogue for her. This amuses me.

cool, I hope this is true

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


ArmZ posted:

cool, I hope this is true

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.co...ct-from-legion/

It is indeed.


On the topic of David not being an established character... he is? I mean it's not explicitly said but Stevens' performance and the show's direction very deftly tell us everything we need to know about David.
He's jumpy and paranoid (for good reason), and very much accepting of his schizo diagnosis. He wants normalcy, but doesn't want to go to extreme lengths to get it because 1) the nature and strength of his powers prevent that and 2) he doesn't seem to want to cause problems for people, which in turn seems to cause problems for him. He doesn't want to confront his problems, and instead just wants to mitigate and escape from the symptoms.

That's why having people around him that want him to learn to control and embrace his power causes such a strong internal conflict for David, as it goes against the way he's tried to live his entire life.

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole

I don't know if I go so far as to say "it was all a dream" but there are two things that stick out to me that don't really make "sense" in this world:

Lenny really could well be a figment of David's imagination. I don't want to go so far as to say the scenes Lenny is in are fake, but maybe just the character. Maybe she's covering up something else. There's just something really off about her character.

The guy at the end of the first episode who was Force Pushing people away. I don't know why, but that "power" really seems out of place in this universe. Most powers that we've seen have been destructive, or the people who use them don't have control. This guy seems to have way too much control over his power.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010



I'm in the middle of the first episode and holy poo poo this is wierd as gently caress and in a 'uh please stay away from me' way, not a 'Trippy-irregular-but-awesome' kind of way. Like, David needs to be megadosed with xanax holy poo poo, he is way too loving neurotic.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008


He is megadosed, it's just he's loving crazy.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010



Well supermegadosed then

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008


That might level him out.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


Yeah, Dan Stevens really pulls off the "sweet boy next door who also has really loving demented crazy eyes" look. It worked well in The Guest and it works well here.

notthegoatseguy posted:

Lenny really could well be a figment of David's imagination.

Going down this path, you'd have to really double-or-triple-down on the characters who are also figments, like the interviewer guy and Syd. Both have mentioned Lenny and how she died, and the solid plaster wall thing seems to be something that actually happened.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010



yeah this show seems to be a bit up its own rear end with the whole "Whoa what is real and what is, like a vision maaaan? Isn't this so astounding??" schtick. I get why people may like it especially if they are big into marvel stuff or whatever, but I'd personally prefer they toned down David's neuroticism and his rather austistic and childish apparent desire to have a girlfriend and kiss Sydney (repeatedly; he doesn't seem to respect her wishes/personal space which is a big pet peeve of mine, considering the rapey undertones not taking 'no' for an answer has). Also, the fart-sniffing what-is-real-and-what-is-memory/dream/vision stuff. He may be powerful which is why both the old man/private police force side and 'rebel/guerilla mutant' force side are fighting over who gets to control him, but have they considered just how loving batshit crazy he is? I mean, if he can't get even stay slightly neurtotypical, he'd be better off kept permanently comatose or even sent to the shadow realm. I'll try one more episode cause I want to like it, but if it doesn't settle down I'll give up on it.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


Yes, David's "autistic and childish" desire to kiss a woman who's in mutual love with him and wants to kiss him too if she were physically capable.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

notthegoatseguy posted:

The guy at the end of the first episode who was Force Pushing people away. I don't know why, but that "power" really seems out of place in this universe. Most powers that we've seen have been destructive, or the people who use them don't have control. This guy seems to have way too much control over his power.

The memory guy was also in control of his powers. So from what I can remember we have seen four people with powers, two are in perfect control of them, and one of the ones that don't is Davis who probably has severe mental problems, so it's doesn't seem hat strange for the telekinetic guy to have control over his.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010



King Vidiot posted:

Yes, David's "autistic and childish" desire to kiss a woman who's in mutual love with him and wants to kiss him too if she were physically capable.

Well I hadn't gotten to that point yet But still, don't be such a man; she still asked him not do it! Does the fact that she loves him invalidate her wishes and autonomy? Also, TV is known to conflate love and infatuation. Exactly how long have the two known each other? I mean, it took me a year and change to know I was in love with the man who became my boyfriend...

Combed Thunderclap
Jan 4, 2011



King Vidiot posted:

Yes, David's "autistic and childish" desire to kiss a woman who's in mutual love with him and wants to kiss him too if she were physically capable.

Don't forget the part where they called the main character autistic, mentally ill, and batshit crazy, and then recommended he be sedated or killed unless he starts being normal already!

Thinking about it, this show honestly isn't that nuts in terms of structure once you strip away all the cool stuff. There are flashbacks so we can learn about David, but the story so far isn't actually that topsy-turvy. We haven't had any scenes or characters who are actually unreal either, to our knowledge, with the obvious exception of Lenny (who is clearly marked as Dead But In Your Head). We'll see just how crazy things get soon enough, I guess.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



why is the protagonist of the show about a guy with mental illness so crazy ffs

Poppyseed Poundcake
Feb 23, 2007


Syds power is automatic friendzoning

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009


Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Well I hadn't gotten to that point yet But still, don't be such a man; she still asked him not do it! Does the fact that she loves him invalidate her wishes and autonomy? Also, TV is known to conflate love and infatuation. Exactly how long have the two known each other? I mean, it took me a year and change to know I was in love with the man who became my boyfriend...

what the gently caress are you talking about

Fumblemouse
Mar 21, 2013


STANDARD
DEVIANT


Grimey Drawer

King Vidiot posted:


Going down this path, you'd have to really double-or-triple-down on the characters who are also figments, like the interviewer guy and Syd.
Just on the subject of Syd. I noted in second episode she stayed around when David lost consciousness after the memory work which is usually TV language for 'is real', multiple legion of super personalities notwithstanding.

I'm loving this show. It's like David Lynch with fast cuts. My partner, who is usually good for SF and superheroes, found this episode in particular really hard to get a grounding on what's going on, though, and looked at her watch a few times. We both thought the MRI machine was back in the asylum (because why stick a disturbed super-psychic in one without support unless you are bastards) until he did his freakout over his sister. If you take the plot at face value, without worrying about who is a figment and who isn't, it currently makes a cohesive story so I'm sticking with that for the time being.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Well I hadn't gotten to that point yet But still, don't be such a man; she still asked him not do it! Does the fact that she loves him invalidate her wishes and autonomy? Also, TV is known to conflate love and infatuation. Exactly how long have the two known each other? I mean, it took me a year and change to know I was in love with the man who became my boyfriend...

His your other half a goon? i feel he needs our support.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011

DON'T LET THIS PICTURE OF AN ADORABLE KITTEN FOOL YOU INTO THINKING I'M NOT AN INSUFFERABLE AUTIST

Invalid Validation posted:

I read the wiki a while ago for Legion, doesn't David have multiple personalities with different powers?

No, David has one personality and a lot of roommates.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010



It's called hyperbole Jfc, I was just expressing my frustration (not helped by the nausea and vomiting going on I'm sure). From the reactions you'd think I killed your kids or something. Man, people are stupidly defensive when it comes to comic books. And is the concept of respecting someones requests that involve their personal space really that foreign to you dangerdoom volvo? Like I said, that poo poo is a personal pet peeve of mine so seeing that only exacerbated the annoyance I was already feeling from the weird inception stuff.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



what does this have to do with comic books

e: has he even made a big deal AT ALL about wanting to kiss her? like he does it in ep 1 because he's a mentally ill weirdo but then powers etc and he doesn't say anything since?

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Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Hahah personal space! She can't touch him, it's not that she doesn't want to.

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