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Lid posted:The David is a rapist plot point clashes hard with the episode where we spend meandering in She's memories for showing she's an unrepentant rapist herself that claims that these scars build character while people around her go to prison for her manipulations but in no way judges her. It's blatantly hypocritical but more so the show has become everyone are unlikable douche bags except Cary and Kerry. "Rapist is a hypocrite for not liking being raped" is the hot take I didn't realize I needed today.
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Feb 16, 2019 17:44
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No it's that the show creators have us to sympathise with her view of our scars make us stronger but she is placed without judgment while also being a rapist. It wasn't meant to be a hot take it was meant to be the show doesn't have a consistent internal logic. To me the show is putting David as a villain protagonist but currently most of his ex-friends are villain antagonists as well and it's not some complex relationship of right and wrong like a Breaking Bad but that it's a pick and choose of who the writers decide should be judged or who should be sympathetic for the same crimes and actions.
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Feb 17, 2019 02:33
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Stop reading TVTropes
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Feb 17, 2019 11:51
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David is a grown rear end man and Syd was still a kid.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:44
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Except the point of her episode as an adult she's unrepentant for her actions and consequences portraying them as making her strong and we are to sympathise with her. In season one we knew the bare details and it was "This is messed up" but in season two it's he was framed for being a child rapist and she relishes in the harm she's caused for being character building. I'm sorry but the shows lost me on it's questions of morality when I'm just "you're all dipshits" but the show thinks not all of them are, just the ones they want to be the bad guy at that moment. I can't see them digging their way out of this hole they've written themselves into no matter how many Jon Hamm monologues we get. I loved my psychedelic mental illness complex supernatural drama but it's just become a caricature of what made it great. All substance no soul.
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Feb 17, 2019 17:07
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I didn't actually want rape hot takes so you can stop now thanks
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Feb 17, 2019 17:29
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Yeah, no one does. But this show did definitely portray at least two rapes, so it's gonna be a topic of discussion
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Feb 17, 2019 17:41
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Three - Lenny explicitly stated Farouk repeatedly rapes her. It's unavoidable to discuss and if you don't want to consider it because it asks hard questions of the show you think is good and making you look forward to season 3 then ok but don't just start shouting "hot takes" like there's some moral relativism here when the position of others is everyone is hosed which is moral absolution. It's fine to love a controversial show dude but you can't make it not controversial because it makes your position uncomfortable.
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Feb 17, 2019 17:50
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Lid posted:Three - Lenny explicitly stated Farouk repeatedly rapes her. It's unavoidable to discuss and if you don't want to consider it because it asks hard questions of the show you think is good and making you look forward to season 3 then ok but don't just start shouting "hot takes" like there's some moral relativism here when the position of others is everyone is hosed which is moral absolution. I was talking about your weird hateboner for Syd and calling her unrepentant & just as bad as her rapist, but nice dodge
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Feb 18, 2019 01:56
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flatluigi posted:I was talking about your weird hateboner for Syd and calling her unrepentant & just as bad as her rapist, but nice dodge this ain't it chief
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Feb 18, 2019 02:22
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flatluigi posted:I didn't actually want rape hot takes so you can stop now thanks
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Feb 18, 2019 04:26
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They're weird posts because they're overly concerned with guilt and sympathy and the intent of the show's creators. I think the show is not particularly concerned with whether a given character is a 'goodie' or a 'baddie', or whether we as an audience find characters 'likeable' or not. Which is, you know, good.
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Feb 18, 2019 12:27
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That would be fine except those are explicitly what Noah Hawley talks about in regards to the show.quote:I mean, for me, the whole show started with this idea, even before I had assigned a character to it. It was just: What can I do in this genre? I felt like, for the genre to be great, it would have to be a great show regardless of the genre. I thought, Well, it would be interesting if it was a supervillain story on some level. To say, How do you take a character from a sympathetic place to an unsympathetic place? Syds the hero, but David can be redeemed - that's what the writers story is. Except to me having taken in the whole season that is wrong because at this point none of them are heroes and it isn't because of some moral complexity it's because they decides we need to make David a rapist so he is a villain in the viewers eyes. And God help us with trying to walk this back because they can't without a cop out that would piss off fans like you and flat Luigi. I've said my piece over how the show is inconsistent on yes guilt and sympathy but it's because it's actually important to the show itself. Having David have no guilt over raping Syd is the entire point of why it's a bad action, and if this gets flipped to oh he's mentally ill he can't understand that it's a whole other can of worms. No matter what way you cut it this is poor poor poor writing and I can't think of anyway they redeem David or God help us try and redeem Farouk. He'll I'm wagering the show ends with David using reality warping to ensure he's never born thus redeeming himself through self annihilation. Which, again, is a loving lame story but God help them try and redeem David via he's good again when He and Syd make up, or the worst the whole rape thing never happened and it's Farouk's machinations. This is a controversial move but it's the bad sort of controversial, it's the controversial of suddenly having sesame street go into a storyline of Oscars heroin addiction. Edgy, pushing boundaries, and driving people away at rapid speed going what the hell is this why is this here. In conclusion  
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Feb 18, 2019 15:49
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Not that Hawley's words are especially important, but I think in that interview he is more interested in "hero" and "[super]villain" in the sense of self-image, rather than his or audience judgement and pronouncement. The comparison made is to Fargo, specifically the moments when even the cruellest and most venal characters turn around and say "but wait, aren't I the victim here?" Hawley plays on that dissonance, especially in relation to the idea that sanity is a social construct.
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Feb 18, 2019 16:24
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Affi posted:No I agree my big question was “did he make her fall in love with him to start with?” Only for David to drop the same phrasing when he's confronted by her. It's too weird to be a coincidence, I hope. I missed S1's trippiness, which was more in service of David's fractured self. The more traditional plot (must track down and defeat evil before bad thing) didn't quite lend itself for the crazy.
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Mar 9, 2019 07:09
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I really wish they’d go more into different personalities with different powers. That could be fun.
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Mar 9, 2019 07:12
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Invalid Validation posted:I really wish they’d go more into different personalities with different powers. That could be fun. Watch Doom Patrol.
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Mar 9, 2019 11:14
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Just binged both seasons and the thread. Confused why people are calling David's mindwipe rape "an abrupt turn." In the pilot he kisses Syd against her will and well stated wishes. He does it anyway because he's a selfish rear end in a top hat and it gets Lenny killed. Also I think Future Syd's actual plan was to kill David herself but he sees this plan and is why Lenny is there not only to ring the fork but also to stop Syd's bullet while he is depowered. I find it hard to believe that was an accident/coincidence. I mean why not have her shoot Syd or Farouk. Maybe he thought the mindwipe would reset everything.  Anyway. I think this show is great and look forward to binging s3. Welp, those are some thoughts, thanks for reading. I'm off to watch Fargo. 
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Mar 10, 2019 09:29
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FilthyImp posted:The writing seemed really, REALLY bad when Syd was up against Melanie halfway though the season and she starts going off on how she's going after "My Maaaaan"... She's been calling him that from episode two or three, since way back when.
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Mar 10, 2019 09:52
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I'm a little heartened by the fact that Hawley is at least thinking about if a character can come back from what David did (and as people mentioned earlier, it's to the show's credit that the actors for both David and Farouk are truly excellent at getting you to at least consider their side). Because a TV show is going to have to do a lot, especially in this cultural moment, to have a character commit sexual assault and then have another season where you might try to rehabilitate him. All the slowness and random bits don't bother me but I've been inoculated from watching The Americans. The show's at least earned a last season to see how things play out -- I just wish there weren't so many loose threads, like Oliver's threat and plan. If those end up playing out next season that seems like a bit lovely.
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Mar 18, 2019 22:00
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Given David's motivations for doing what he did, I don't think it is out of the question that he could be redeemed. But I think the more interesting story is how everyone around David helped turn him into a villain due to their selfishness and ignorance.
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Mar 18, 2019 22:19
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Dreylad posted:I'm a little heartened by the fact that Hawley is at least thinking about if a character can come back from what David did (and as people mentioned earlier, it's to the show's credit that the actors for both David and Farouk are truly excellent at getting you to at least consider their side). Because a TV show is going to have to do a lot, especially in this cultural moment, to have a character commit sexual assault and then have another season where you might try to rehabilitate him.
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Mar 18, 2019 22:47
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Yeah David's actions aren't great but "maybe my friends have been compromised by the powerful psychic who tried to kill me and is currently sitting in the room with them" isn't a huge leap of logic
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Mar 19, 2019 00:16
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Xand_Man posted:Yeah David's actions aren't great but "maybe my friends have been compromised by the powerful psychic who tried to kill me and is currently sitting in the room with them" isn't a huge leap of logic
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Mar 19, 2019 04:29
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Cugel the Clever posted:He raped his girlfriend in one of the previous scenes, so giving him credit for consistent internal logic seems odd to me. I was specifically referring to Farouk being part of the confrontation at end of S2 and the idea that it could be viewed as sign that maybe he's going to become a 'good guy' after all as a opposed to a talented mindfucker who doesn't need to use his mental powers to make people dance like puppets. David has been consistantly portrayed as an emotionally stunted schizophrenic; it does not excuse what he did but it's also not hard to see how Farouk orchestrated a series of events designed to push David off the rails.
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Mar 19, 2019 06:01
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Noah Hawley apparently released a trailer for his first film, figured this thread might want to see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2riLPWRwr0 https://www.engadget.com/2019/03/19/lucy-in-the-sky-trailer/
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Mar 19, 2019 17:47
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IUG posted:Noah Hawley apparently released a trailer for his first film, figured this thread might want to see. I think that's peak Hawley right there...
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Mar 19, 2019 21:26
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JazzFlight posted:What exactly is Farouk's "side?" Like, I know the show is trying to blow my mind by making me think "what if the villain is the hero and the hero is the villain!" but how is Farouk supposed to be a good person from what we've seen him do over the course of the show?
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Apr 2, 2019 21:04
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The third and final season will premiere on June 24th.
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May 3, 2019 07:24
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Season 2 bluray when?
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May 3, 2019 12:34
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Oasx posted:The third and final season will premiere on June 24th. Oh thank god it's ending.
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May 6, 2019 06:23
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https://twitter.com/LegionFX/status/1125437575840145408 Cool season 3 poster. The account's hinting at a trailer soon.
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May 6, 2019 22:23
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Dreylad posted:I'm a little heartened by the fact that Hawley is at least thinking about if a character can come back from what David did (and as people mentioned earlier, it's to the show's credit that the actors for both David and Farouk are truly excellent at getting you to at least consider their side). Because a TV show is going to have to do a lot, especially in this cultural moment, to have a character commit sexual assault and then have another season where you might try to rehabilitate him. Unfortunately, Syd is pretty clearly guilty of rape herself (ie: her mom’s boyfriend), and both the writers and many viewers seem to have given her a pass on that because she was a lonely disturbed teen. So we’ll see if they deal with David’s rehabilitation any better; I hope they do. e: oops, that was an old post. Sorry about that! Majorian fucked around with this message at 08:31 on May 7, 2019 |
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May 7, 2019 06:30
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navid negahban is so loving baller in this
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May 7, 2019 10:28
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Season 3 trailer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Vl1fuGn1A
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May 7, 2019 17:51
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Oasx posted:Season 3 trailer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Vl1fuGn1A gonna need more cylinders to fire on
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May 7, 2019 18:53
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Oasx posted:Season 3 trailer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Vl1fuGn1A goddamn
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May 7, 2019 18:54
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Looks interesting, but... as an audience member, I'm a bit lost as to who to root for? Is anyone going to be likable this season?
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May 7, 2019 18:59
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JazzFlight posted:Looks interesting, but... as an audience member, I'm a bit lost as to who to root for? root for the most entertaining character which is why you should support the shadow king
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May 7, 2019 19:01
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I am never a fan of Alice In Wonderland imagry, it feels so cliche and hackish for anything weird. But i'm into 60s guru david.
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May 7, 2019 20:17
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