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Dunno if it is relevant, guys more aware of Legion in the comics might talk about it better, also might be a spoiler so I am tagging this: A Major Deal with Legion is his ability to shape capital letter Reality, at least in his more powerful incarnations. Space-time paradoxes are perfectly solvable with him because whoopsie if there is a problem in a current timeline (Legion A), then a splinter aspect in the future (Legion B) can retroactively manipulate poo poo in a continuous way so that A instead of doing stuff that would lead to B tries a different outcome that generates Legion C, simultaneously That said, and this is a huge gigantic who the gently caress knows but it is actually slightly possible and would be hilariously Legion-y, when we are shown David trying to "remember" stuff later on, he wasn't actually doing so, but rather going to that moment in time he had the 'dance-off' (which imo was a great substitute for a psychic all-out battle) and actually changing the outcome in which David instead of trashing SK, gives him an opening in order to give aid, by which the delusion mentioned comes to fruit. of course it might be that, it might be a thing a thousand times more complicated, but what I love about Hawley's take on Legion is that yeah sure it is crazy and that is why it is totally possible, and I love the fact that he picked a character that truly allows poo poo like that in the story 
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Apr 6, 2018 03:49
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night slime posted:Yeah if you remember, Shadow King tried to put together a whole mind thing with the hospital and got pissed and tired of it after like 20 minutes or 2 days or something. that was actually an attempt to fool David's perspective in order to keep control, since the more he pushed, more David's own power went to his self-defense shadow king manipulating David's perception with the hospital was much more of a gambit to ensure its own survival since the more David was aware of him and how much he manipulated his memories, the more his power went on the automatic to defend him (Rational Legion coming to the rescue meant that the SK pushed too hard and meant that if David could spontaneously learn how to deal with the poo poo that he had developed with centuries of telepath experience, David could learn how to absorb/consume him for real without much trouble if he kept pushing for control, which probably made him lie to Syd in order to GTFO ASAP
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Apr 7, 2018 05:18
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Chokes McGee posted:e: Basically, the Devil with Yellow Eyes, World's Angry Boy in the World, and Lenny/Benny were Farouk just screwing around. Now he's eaten an entire nightclub and is ready to get down to business. We don't know he has eaten anything, or if he is just spreading some psychic malaise, but if SK is collaborating with David, and if he had a hand on pushing David around for this... ...Well, there is a reason why David is called Legion in the first place  Also, since extratemporal fuckery is now confirmed and the inner aspects are debating strongly than before, I am thinking that this is the season where he finally is going to earn the callsign/nickname by having Alt-Legion no. 322 undoing whatever stupidity that makes Legion A go apeshit and break the world late edit: poo poo there is so much going on this show that is making season 1 positively quaint in comparison the labyrinth/maze references and the minotaur/wheelchair creature-thing keeps popping up and what the gently caress is Legion unconsciously warping everybody's consciousness? dead gay comedy forums fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 05:47
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Pussy Quipped posted:I love this batshit crazy show.  Though, it seems that David is about to lose his poo poo in more or less an episode away? Jon Hamm's narration laid stuff brick by brick in such a simple, but entertaining way that I think that the plot is pretty much spelled out by this point? imho monk dude pretty much confirmed that either legion or syd were compromised, whether it was retroactive fuckery by Legion himself or SK doing it I have no idea; thing is, going by the delusion explanation video, 'we reject other, more rational and likely explanations to foster a delusion', Legion can't pick up on the various signs that the guy is a monster, paying no mind to the damage he has done or hell, that he might be lying to him? Also, why the gently caress is everybody going "The Shadow King will END US ALL!?!", isn't that a massive and gross exaggeration given that David's dad packed him in without much trouble?
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Apr 19, 2018 01:51
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Ah, thanks, I went "wait a minute I think I know a few more dudes who are way badder than Xavier in mindfuckery powers", but then again, Legion show is its own thing almost entirely
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Apr 19, 2018 04:54
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twistedmentat posted:So, Carey totally said "Is isn't Shi'iar" when looking at the sphere? Space Bird jerks incoming! I thought it was just an easter egg reference tbqh, can't see Hawley working the Shi'ar into this type of narrative at least so suddenly But then again, he put (spoilers for Fargo, season 2) motherfucking UFOs in a motel shootout so who knows? night slime posted:I kept wondering if they were going to address the "what did the stars say" thing where he ate the tape recording and David's dad's face from last season, since he taught him about the stars. I don't think we are ever going to find about that one, unless it is somehow related with ALIENS!?!? as per above
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Apr 19, 2018 15:41
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I thought that SK was lying his rear end off, but all seems to indicate that the "disease" is the monk's doing, as entrapping people in their own mind-mazes makes them immune to delusions. Which, by the way of the egg explanation earlier in the first episode, might be represented in the latest by the shadow king's coffin (which is suspiciously almost like an egg). As for the order going batshit crazy, the point of the Hamm Blurb was that it doesn't take much to push people over the edge? Like, it could be the literal thumping that rattled the monks and all it took was one to break for poo poo go downhill.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:37
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I just rewatched this last episode and how the gently caress I could forget about the cow I think it is quite the sign of David having an episode when everybody goes "holy loving poo poo A COW?!?!" and he doesn't even care, particularly *after* he did some brain fiddling "jesus christ this show is bonkers" - critical consensus
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Apr 20, 2018 02:59
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thought it was the weakest episode tbqh, not that it was bad, it was just... uh, a lot more complicated without much payoff? what the gently caress, I am probably reading too much into it, but: - What Syd was doing on the rooftop; - Once the monk offed himself everybody woke up, but not her (and thus David); - She didn't seemed trapped at all: in fact, it seems that she actually trapped Legion for... - She really didn't act like her usual self by the end of it: "God loves us more 'cause we burn brighter", whaaaaaaaaaaat if the delusion monster thingie is real, Syd having it nurturing some idea/delusion about relationships and touch being hurtful things and love being something that eventually just fizzles and softens people to the point it makes them mush, and David blindly trusting her and not second guessing anything because hey let's not forget that either/or his powers or mental illness he has problems perceiving things, then this episode is more about how them both eventually gently caress up the world gah, this show is the maze, and I am trapped in it (also showing that swap scene felt more to remind viewers than to actually make Legion "get" her trauma, imho) edits: confusion makes sentences hard
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Apr 26, 2018 03:41
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Shageletic posted:I hate to do this but no problem at all, I was legit confused and wanted some interpretative help haha like the other goon above said, the show is weird and counter-intuitive, but very consistent, which is why I started meandering on what was going on w/r/t the greater context (and also was expecting development in that sense), because I thought "wait this probably will mean a lot later on" then welp
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Apr 26, 2018 15:48
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Oasx posted:I have to wonder what the point of that was, I know that Farouk has a very high opinion of himself but he more than anyone knows what David is capable of. Why make him your enemy if you don't have to? that's why Oliver gave him that hint Hubris. Farouk was humiliated by Legion both in mental domain and in direct battle (end of season 1), so this is a convenient retribution/trap combo for him to get back at David, not realizing he is going to gently caress with someone waaaaaaaay above his own league - if Xavier owned his rear end, David can do so a billion times HOWEVER, after Jon Hamm's "apparently on Legion" beginning, Ptonomy's rant about time and the promo for the next episode*, if this is going where I am guessing it is, Hawley is one loving ballsy lunatic and I am seriously hoping the series can deliver on that: the David we have seen thus far has a delusion or caused a delusion on others (Fukuyama? The droids?) that is warping an entire timeline of reality, complete with "glitches" like the cow from the other episode, meaning once poo poo goes down enough, another David might step in to fix stuff and we finally get into proper Legion territory and I love the irony of me making this post after this episode's "Jon Hamm narrates", goddamn what a show
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May 3, 2018 02:22
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flatluigi posted:amy was describing a dream she had of being one of the fukuyama robots before poo poo went down Given everything and how poo poo escalated in that sense up until this episode, linearity is for sure not granted in any shape, way or form: knowing what Legion is capable, poo poo, that might be his way of keeping Amy alive somehow
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May 3, 2018 03:07
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flatluigi posted:just call him David, it's okay tomato tomahto, what's the problem? edit: oh I read your post as I was posting lol sorry, I just use both names interchangeably, I don't mean anything by it
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May 3, 2018 03:32
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double nine posted:here's my dumb theory: the monk said they tried everything to destroy Farouk's body, but it was to strong. Future-Syd otoh hand said that David bashed Farouk's skull in. This does not compute. Now, it's possible that they manage to build the weapon, and it makes the body vulnerable for a good brainbashing, or ... future-syd is the delusion, and this is all a big ploy to finally get David sufficiently motivated to uncover the drat body. oooooooor that Farouk used Amy for a trap to get David's body through the device without Syd knowing that it's not-David, things go fubar and she tries to use that other device (the orb) to make things right by telling his past self to help the Shadow King, thus causing the feedback loop *edited for clarification and typos dead gay comedy forums fucked around with this message at 16:33 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 15:34
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Flyinglemur posted:Who do I have to kill to get some kind of collaboration between Hawley and Lynch? As much as that seems like a good idea, there is such thing as "too much" I kinda get that Hawley is going for a Lynchian angle in Legion, but this season so far the cards are so close to the chest that the entire argument about being pure style over substance might be falling apart if the series doesn't deliver some elaboration, and I fear that the ratings might be showing that already 
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May 4, 2018 15:31
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Jerkface posted:my take is that its to show he was looking for amy and verse where she was alive and happy. he didnt give a poo poo that he was theoretically happy in a universe where she didnt exist/was out of his life. this Basically, David cared so much about her sister that he projected to other possibilities of himself where he was in the shitter (including even one where he is at least partially surrendered/corrupted to the shadow king) but at least she is alive and well, but unfortunately, it cannot work for this current instance of him.
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May 10, 2018 03:47
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Also my SO made a really good observation that while Syd's episode was a continuous loop on her life, this one was "gonna try everything but": now when you add the context of suffering and trauma that was discussed earlier on, the contrast works ridiculously well, holy poo poo
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May 10, 2018 04:02
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tetrapyloctomy posted:But I can understand why this episode is polarizing Definitely, but I think it is aggravated by having seen so little development: if there was more plot-meat in the bones, so to speak, I think this episode would have gotten a lot more goodwill. Then again, Fargo only clicked for a bunch of people after the middle of the season, so... I think most of the frustration comes from the waiting, in the sense that these explorations of the characters will probably make sense in retrospect, however, it is going to be a shame if people tune out before this season gets close to the finishing line and end up thinking that Legion is a mess because of that. dead gay comedy forums fucked around with this message at 15:58 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 15:30
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Major Sandman vibes this ep, with the whole "a memory of a dream" and David handling the bug delusion thingie And I loved that David claimed once he found out about them that they are simply manifestations of insanity: that is pretty much the best "plot evidence" in favor of the narration being completely straightforward with the audience (further compounded by the "so what we have learned?" part), which ties neatly to the monk/disease portion of the season as well. Which kinda brings me to a point: was this whole song and dance with the monster thing to show out a sort of motif, a raison d'etre, of this season's plot? Like, we must be very careful to how we see the world and justify things to ourselves, otherwise we risk delusions and these can be very dangerous not only to us, but also to the ones we care about? This goes well with how David was too quick to regard future Syd's word as truth, or that he could trust the Shadow King, or that the monk was a vector of the disease but everybody was too fixated about Farouk to give a drat. If so, it is a masterstroke because I was worried all the time that the plot was going to be this cripplingly complicated massive maniacal piece of work while the series was the entire loving time telling me completely straight that in thinking like that, I was behaving exactly as the test subjects of the narration sequences by fitting it to patterns that matched my worldview and expectations of the plot while not paying attention at all to the actual things going on and holy gently caress I realized that this is true while I was typing this and this motherfucking show is a goddamn work of art
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May 17, 2018 03:46
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SimonChris posted:Where the hell was D3 security during all of this? Don't they have soldiers patrolling the compound? swickles posted:They're all dusted. there were lots and lots of eggshells, probably took care of that
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May 17, 2018 16:52
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Laterite posted:Speaking of Oliver's riddle, I don't recall seeing discussion here about what it meant. Anyone with theories? Probably something to do with combining body and mind? Farouk seemed to "get it", with his little chuckle. I don't think Farouk understood it. Some hypotheses: 1) Hubris: what is 1+1 is rather obvious. In this sense, Oliver means that is a pretty much natural conclusion that Farouk is going to get himself owned hard because he fundamentally doesn't get it how powerful David even after all those years in his head. Farouk went all last ditch effort to lock him down in a corner of his mind as a last resort in season one, only for David to spontaneously manifest a splinter personality that got their poo poo together pretty quick. 2) David is Legion: 1+1 is not equal 2 if David has, well, multiple personalities. Farouk ultimately can't have his powers without David being the "core" aspect keeping it together, because as per season one if he tries to destroy David's mind another personality simply comes up more than capable of loving up the shadow king. 3) The whole is more than the sum of its parts: just because you get David's body doesn't mean you are getting his powers, or that the Shadow King getting his own back means he can be all-powerful. Indeed, Xavier kicked his rear end when he had a body, so what stops David from doing so again only this time much harder?
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May 18, 2018 03:38
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Wafflecopper posted:None of these work imo, because they're all based around David killing Farouk. Oliver's threat was that he would kill Farouk. I really like Chokes McGee's guess, it works with the riddle too: Oliver is one, Farouk is one, but together they don't make two. They're still just one, which Oliver can kill. aaah, good catch - I didn't think he meant himself literally, though, but it is a valid counterpoint anyway.
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May 18, 2018 06:09
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also I just want to add that the Vermillion dancing pose sequence with Nicolas Jaar's Mi Mujer was just too drat good Hawley's got a fantastic ear for that stuff, Fargo was solid, but on Legion he is ridiculous
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May 19, 2018 18:24
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lots of things to love about this episode, from fargo-esque split screens to the minotaur at the end (which I took as "here we are, in the heart of the maze")Gobbeldygook posted:Someone who believes they are the only person that's real isn't a narcissist, they are a solipsist. That's such a basic mistake that I don't believe it's a mistake. There is a difference when it comes to psychology/psychiatry (technically speaking both are different in the sense that solipsism comes from philosophy), which goes along a pretty important detail about the Jon Hamm vignette of the week: narcissistic personality disorders can manifest strong delusions to the point of psychoses in an effort to maintain cognitive dissonance at all costs, with the person preferring to cause harm and destruction instead of challenging their own irrational beliefs. It's not that other people do not exist, it is that they don't matter as much at best, so "I am sure that the wife won't mind my little affair here" because their feelings as narcissist are much more important, but at its worst, welp, egotistic megalomania in a position of power? That's a thing that never went bad in the history books  (I would say that a certain fellow who goes around showboating in different languages about how he is the king of kings and dodging all the loving time when asked about the atrocities comitted fits the bill quite loving perfectly)
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May 24, 2018 03:56
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In a cunning reversal, David dances "I heard it through the grapevine" while using the guise of Lenny against the Shadow King, exploding his astral corner
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May 24, 2018 17:28
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the point of that segment is exactlyTuxedo Catfish posted:"the map is not the territory" the smartphone screen is a convenient device: just a mean to continue the ideas from the allegory of the cave (which imho was fantastically well presented since being one of the most well known ideas in philosophy the show could be highly pedantic about it and just mention the idea in passing without explaining it at all) it serves a framework: if you only interact with the ideas of people and not with the people themselves you can't exercise highly important things like empathy, hammering down the drat idea with a literal troll caricature to the point of projection ("you sound fat" with the guy being obese) and the obvious misogyny: this is the "blinding light of the sun" moment for the girl where she realizes that behind every screen there are people, real human beings and not their shadows... ...Which explains the why of "most dangerous delusion of all" being relevant to the series: if this takes for too long and your (wrong) beliefs about it go unchallenged, you might develop a full-on clinical psychiatric disorder down to potential psychoses as a narcissist personality, and if the last episode was about how moral panics stem from wrong reasons but do not make the people afraid any less dangerous, this was quite straightforwardly a dig into the Shadow King, who enslaves minds, kills people, tortures them and all manner of hideous behavior while believing he is totally justified and correct for it, because, as he puts it, "why should I care about the ants?" (in a lesser way that also might be a dig into Legion, but narcissistic schizophrenics are way too rare and we had the entire first season being about him, so it makes more sense to be about the SK)
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May 25, 2018 02:29
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that episode felt rather jumbled for me I don't know, there is just the season finale to go and there wasn't a plot clinch in sight, like an earlier goon posted I got a strong "this might turn out to be a big stinker of an ending" vibe here haha
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Jun 7, 2018 02:59
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Strobe posted:I'm struck by a weird feeling when reading a post that can be summed up as "the episode before the season finale didn't wrap anything up" and somehow that's a bad thing? Naaah, it is just by this point things are more or less advanced in order to make the most of the story's payload, you know? That the shadow king was getting his body back was pretty much a given, but to address a specific, I felt that it was rather demurring and repetitive that yet again David, Syd et al went full speed ahead into traps that, while of course not obvious to the characters, seems rather so to the audience or to put it in another way: watching David chasing his own tail for most of the season without any significant "wins" (so to speak) and going for every bait hook line and sinker repeatedly without (at least for me) good plot developments to make them worthwhile are kinda jarring and leave a lot to wrap by the end of it Which, by the way, was this supposed to be the last episode before there was the announcement that this season was getting one more?
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Jun 7, 2018 04:08
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That's... what the finale is for.
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Dmitri-9 posted:This season felt like it was less than the sum of its parts, there was plenty of cool/horrifying stuff but not enough structure to make it a satisfying season of television. Hopefully there is a little more plot next time. Jerusalem posted:With the season done, I have to say it feels like we only got maybe 75% of the actual story and a lot of it was set-up for season 3 (so good thing they got renewed I guess!) - there is still a lot of stuff that feels incomplete or unrefined in a way that the far tighter season 1 didn't. Still loved the show, but I do feel like something was missing this time around (probably just not enough Aubrey Plaza, so woop for season 3!).  in the end, it felt unfocused and not well structured imhoalso the season finale didn't feel like a finale at all, more of a "oh there it is", episode 10 out of 12 kind of thing
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Jun 14, 2018 00:34
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Shitenshi posted:or she's REALLY freaking dumb actually, a positive here is how human the succession of events that lead to well David becoming Legion, which was a good take on "the road of hell is paved with good intentions": Syd's desire for human touch makes her attracted to David at first, and David's troubles create an image of Syd that was the loving payload to the delusion explanations (she is his "love of his life" but never was). Getting shot by a Syd that was already suspicious of his lack of trust on her, manipulated by the Shadow King and whose life lessons were a complete and total loving disaster for a paranoid multiple personality schizophrenic with godly powers in a psychotic episode is pretty much the perfect catalyst to David go full breakdown however how good the concept take was, execution was shoddy
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Jun 14, 2018 01:21
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Danger posted:They let David, who unrepentantly murdered most of Division 3 a year prior, walk around unshackled. that goes in full contradiction to what season one stated, that the shadow king was skinriding David on that occasion (down to the special imaging thing showing the demon with yellow eyes)
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Jun 14, 2018 02:18
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