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algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy


A game of cat and mouse. An obsessed Attorney looking to get his man. A Rich Billionaire who will break the rules to make money because this is America, goddamnit. Also there are women but they don't matter because this is about the patriarchy yeah baby yeah.

Billions season 1 was a very showtimey uneven ride. By the end it kind of came together in a way that almost redeemed the uneven 11 episodes before it. It has a cast that is quite frankly above most of the material, and somehow pulls in excellent guest stars for one shots. Featuring snappy on the nose dialogue, and hits you over the head with obvious metaphors.

So why watch it? Well the soundtrack by electronic artist Eskmo is loving amazing. The principle leads elevate the lovely material, and the middle to back half of last season produced some somewhat entertaining television:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E765zGG4GLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfC54kLXNQg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8S4isIxo2w

The question is: Will this spiral off in a Homeland-like pit of second season child hit and runs, or will it pull a Halt and Catch Fire-like resurgence?

Will this show's stock rise or fall something something stock-market joke something something???

The Cast.


Paul Giamatti (John Adams, Sideways) - Chuck Rhoades.

US Attorney for the Southern District New York (or whatever). Has plans to enter politics or something, makes less money than his (ex?)Wife and is into BDSM. Poor Chuck ended last season not getting the man, always being on the back foot, and stealing his wife's practice notes in order to try and get Axe for bribery. The end result is that she left him and he's a bitter, broken, Shakespearean tragedy of a man (and walking conflict of interest). In the end, Paul Giamatti just crushes everything so he's a treat to watch.

Damian Lewis (Band of Brothers, Homeland (lol), Dreamcatcher (lol)) - Bobby "Axe" Axelrod

Billionaire philanthropist family man charismatic cult like dirty finance pizza connoisseur guy. Because ~prestige drama~ he's seen to be charming and likeable to contrast the grumpy and frumpy Rhoades. Damian Lewis is great. Axe finishes last season having torn apart his entire building trying to find a nonexistent wiretap, didn't give his friend life extending drugs so he could die in a timeframe that suited him, pissed of the NY Firefighters so they ruined his wife's farm and restaurant, and his hedge fund isn't in the greatest of places with the negative publicity. He also offered Chuck Rhoades' 2nd in command a job.

Maggie Siff (Don Draper's Jewish ladyfriend from Mad Men) - Wendy Rhoades

Was a performance coach for Axlerod's investment firm. She ended last season estranged from her husband Chuck Rhoades. She is also estranged from her former employer Axe after she quit because he's bad and breaks the law. She is probably the most interesting character, but also mostly spend her time being a plot beat for all the male characters which is sad. Hopefully she'll have her own self determination now she's not stuck between the two ~powerful male leads~.

Malin Akerman (Silk Spectre in Watchmen) - Lara Axelrod


She exists and is a part of the show. :effort:

David Costabile (Gale Boetticher from Breaking Bad) - Mike 'Wags' Wagner

Wages is Axe's COO. He's really foulmouthed but not in a funny or ironic way. "People in this place's lips are looser than my first wife after our second child." :psyduck:

Toby Leonard Moore (Underbelly, The Pacific, Dardevil) - Bryan Connerty

Chuck Rhoades' right hand man. Had a sexual relationship with an FBI agent and then started a thing with Lady Lawyer in the office instead in a plot thread that I'm supposed to give a poo poo about but don't. He ended last season with a job offer from Axe that he didn't explicitly turn down. He's starting to chafe under the overbearing leadership of Chuck Rhoades.

Other people:
Lady lawyer in the office who is banging Bryan. FBI Lady who was banging Bryan. FBI dude. The Guy from Numbers as rear end in a top hat Attorney General Stooge. A bunch of traders that work for Axe whose names and faces I struggle to remember. Chuck's lawyer (The fat one). Chuck's fixer (the guy with the goatee). Also Mark Furhman from American Crime Story dropped by occasionally to try and get Wendy a new job. Dr Greene from ER as a corrupt judge. That guy from the Americans as Axe's friend who probably isn't his friend no more. James Hetfield. Guy who lets his dog poop without using a plastic bag.

Also, ?uestlawyer.



I think that brings us all up to speed.

Last season had 4 posts. I do you think we can beat that? honestly. I'm not sure.

First episode is available on Showtime Streaming, and will air February 19 and air weekly after that.

algebra testes fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Feb 12, 2017

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Funking Giblet
Jun 28, 2004

Jiglightful!
I watched this show on an airplane and it helped me pass the time.

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004



College Slice
I'll watch it but I wish the entire cast could be air-lifted and dropped into a better show.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

Just binged it, I actually quite liked it. If this show has made me learn anything it is that 'guy who looks distinguished in a suit' is apparently an actual typecast considering how many guest stars this show already shares with Suits. Since this is a Showtime show I fully expect it to squander any promise that season finale hinted at and go nowhere. Anyways, I'm in for the ride.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



Pierson posted:

I'll watch it but I wish the entire cast could be air-lifted and dropped into a better show.

Kinda this. There's nothing wrong with this show, there's just nothing compelling either - but the cast is solid.

eclectic taste
Jun 5, 2004

Future Schmidt
Season 1 was uneven but ended great. I just don't know why they didn't let Damien Lewis be a British rich guy instead of making him American.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy

eclectic taste posted:

Season 1 was uneven but ended great. I just don't know why they didn't let Damien Lewis be a British rich guy instead of making him American.

Looks like in the season 2 promos they've stopped the whole "him dying his hair" nonsense.

algebra testes fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Feb 16, 2017

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

eclectic taste posted:

Season 1 was uneven but ended great. I just don't know why they didn't let Damien Lewis be a British rich guy instead of making him American.

The libertarian self-made man sthick doesn't work as well if he's not American. Plus, it ruins any semblance of theme the show is going for if its the American justice system versus some amoral British dude, he needs to be American as well.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
As much as I dumped on the show in the OP, the subplot about the double agent mole with Cancer was legitimately great. That scene where the FBI fake raid his house you see a shot of him hide all his medication and nothing is made of it until like 2 episodes later when the whole plan is made clear.

Also I loved the whole "PRETEND WE'RE FIGHTING!!" scene.

LentThem
Aug 31, 2004

90% Retractible
it still impresses the hell out of me that Paul Giamatti is able to square off against people 6 inches taller than him and still appear threatening - like not many people can manage "look upwards menacingly" without looking cornered or petulant or something

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

LentThem posted:

it still impresses the hell out of me that Paul Giamatti is able to square off against people 6 inches taller than him and still appear threatening - like not many people can manage "look upwards menacingly" without looking cornered or petulant or something

Giamatti has been on an all-ham diet for decades and can overact anyone.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

Seriously, no one is watching this show?

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
So this season is going to be Chuck as the one under siege with him somehow squeaking out at the end right?

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Freshly Squeezed
OP is not exactly doing the show any favors, i thought the first season was great and had good writing, though Damian Lewis and Paul Giamatti and the biggest reasons to watch it.

I just wish i could understand more of the financial/trading part of the show, half the time i don't understand what is going on.

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Oasx posted:

I just wish i could understand more of the financial/trading part of the show, half the time i don't understand what is going on.

The trading aspect is basically the same as it was in "Trading Places" and revolves mostly around insider information being abused to make money. They use a lot of fancy terms to make it sound like rocket science, but that's not plot relevant.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
I enjoyed the first episode, I thought the chess scene was good. And the twist of Chuck being turned in by his own guy was good as well.

I thought this was a solid start.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
Soundtrack status: still dope as hell.

Also, new credits sequence looks great.

"Don't put Ric Flair in the ring if you don't want the heat from the crowd."

E: I love that ?uestlawyer is now a regular

E: also I loving love the new analyst, they are great.

E3: Run the jewels on the soundtrack? Be still my beating heart.

algebra testes fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Feb 27, 2017

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
I have been thinking about why I like this second season so much so far. They have ditched all the subplots I dislike and are focusing only on the good ones and giving more focus on the interesting characters.

Also they are doing a great job through two episodes of stalling out the main conflict while introducing worthwhile secondary antagonists for each principle.

LentThem
Aug 31, 2004

90% Retractible
i want more reaction shots of people realizing how loving good that pizza is

toby leonard moore sold the hell out of it last season

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Freshly Squeezed
Taylor is my new favourite character.

Pump it up! Do it!
Oct 3, 2012
This is one of my favorite shows right now, I don't know why it gets more attention. The characters are just fun to watch and pretty great actors as well.

Oasx posted:

Taylor is my new favourite character.

Yeah Taylor is pretty great, especially in Axelrod's super macho office.

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG
This was a good ep. Loved the whole Taylor/Dollar Bill thing because it's a perfect illustration of the differences between people.
I'm not too hot on the implication that Ax is the kind of person who unites the ballsy male thing and the detached number crunching thing. Maybe that's what he wants to be, but everything he does shows how petty and driven by emotions he is.

LentThem
Aug 31, 2004

90% Retractible
Billions - what happens when an rear end in a top hat has a photographic memory

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
Yeah another good episode. The thing about buying all the books is hilarious and also, heartbreaking.

Oasx posted:

Taylor is my new favourite character.

They are definitely my favourite new character.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
Renewed for a third season, per the Avclub

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

Lipstick Apathy
Just caught up through season 1, count me as surprised also that more people aren't watching this show. The one character that I really didn't like was Axe's wife, her individual plots weren't really interesting and the rest of the time she just stood around looking extremely smug (the scene where Axe buys his name on the building in particular was cringeworthy). I hope she gets interesting and Maggie Siff gets some fun stuff to do because she's great and I found her character to be the most interesting.

Longbaugh01
Jul 13, 2001

"Surprise, muthafucka."
Stan Beeman AKA The Best Neighbor directed tonight's episode. He's directed at least one or two The Americans in the past.

hashtagNewYorkCityActorCommunity

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.
Chuck is such a dope. He could have walked away with that favor and bolstered his position against Axe but he is still going after that other billionaire because he can never compromise.

I really liked how Wendy shot down those Mars colonists though.

Lasagna Pilot
Feb 6, 2009

No, you're dark-side intergalactic encyclopedia salesmen. Unfortunately, the home office hasn't been quite upfront with you.

EricBauman posted:

This was a good ep. Loved the whole Taylor/Dollar Bill thing because it's a perfect illustration of the differences between people.
I'm not too hot on the implication that Ax is the kind of person who unites the ballsy male thing and the detached number crunching thing. Maybe that's what he wants to be, but everything he does shows how petty and driven by emotions he is.

Axe is a mirror of Rhoades, they are both highly effective and good at strategy but their blindspot is ego and their competitive nature, so all of their misplays happen when those factors are involved.

Dmitri-9 posted:

Chuck is such a dope. He could have walked away with that favor and bolstered his position against Axe but he is still going after that other billionaire because he can never compromise.


Case in point

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
Has this picked up since episode 4? The iffy writing of season 1 was just too hard to ignore this season.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer
It's still pretty much the same show as last season. The writing is not nearly as clever as the writers think it is, but the actors manage to make up for it.

There's also still a truckload of sidelining female characters despite the fact that it tries to paint them as badasses (Axe's wife being the most egregious example).

In The Wolf of Wall Street Scorsese manages to portray this same life of excess and dubious morals in a way that makes you laugh but also leaves you feeling sick to your stomach. Here you get the feeling that the show glorifies the characters but also feels guilty about it so they throw in some "look how they destroy their own lives" moments.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer
Just finished the latest episode and I think what most annoys me about the show is how everyone just has to narrate some barely applicable anecdote or historical fact before making a point.

Otherwise an ok episode and it's nice to have Axe in the back foot for once

It seems clear to me that the show is setting everything up for Axe to drop Lara as a liability after she threatens to expose him as revenge for re-hiring Wendy.

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(

Ur Getting Fatter posted:

There's also still a truckload of sidelining female characters despite the fact that it tries to paint them as badasses (Axe's wife being the most egregious example).

In The Wolf of Wall Street Scorsese manages to portray this same life of excess and dubious morals in a way that makes you laugh but also leaves you feeling sick to your stomach. Here you get the feeling that the show glorifies the characters but also feels guilty about it so they throw in some "look how they destroy their own lives" moments.

Lol they are loving with a nations currency for profit. Axe made his fortune shorting stocks on 9/11 as his friends died. He has the shadiest guy ever in charge of his black ops operations, you know the guy that implied he could kill children this last episode. How do you not feel sick to your stomach. I like this show, but after every episode i feel a bit more cynical. Because yeah, Bobby is an entertaining guy, that is one of the worst of this class of wall street cheaters.

Edit: I feel like saying "they are loving with a nations currency for profit" when talking about hedge funds is hilarious and obvious, but i meant them messing around with the currency of a smaller nation(Bolivia right?)

Fragmented fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Mar 28, 2017

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(

This show is like The Sopranos but instead of neighborhoods getting destroyed by money it's the entire global economy, and the worst the mobsters can face is 10 years in federal prison, which will never, ever actually happen. Do you think Boyd ever worried about getting thrown in a trunk lined with plastic and shot in the face? I'm guessing no.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer

Fragmented posted:

Lol they are loving with a nations currency for profit. Axe made his fortune shorting stocks on 9/11 as his friends died. He has the shadiest guy ever in charge of his black ops operations, you know the guy that implied he could kill children this last episode. How do you not feel sick to your stomach. I like this show, but after every episode i feel a bit more cynical. Because yeah, Bobby is an entertaining guy, that is one of the worst of this class of wall street cheaters.

Edit: I feel like saying "they are loving with a nations currency for profit" when talking about hedge funds is hilarious and obvious, but i meant them messing around with the currency of a smaller nation(Bolivia right?)

It was Nigeria.

The things that characters do are shady as poo poo, but the characters themselves are smart, sexy (well, not Paul Giamatti), funny, always ready with a quip or a historical fact. I feel like whatever indictment of the system the show is trying to make, gets lost in that it all seems fun and exciting.

dpkg chopra fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Mar 29, 2017

Lasagna Pilot
Feb 6, 2009

No, you're dark-side intergalactic encyclopedia salesmen. Unfortunately, the home office hasn't been quite upfront with you.

Ur Getting Fatter posted:

It was Nigeria.

The things that characters do are shady as poo poo, but the characters themselves are smart, sexy (well, not Paul Giamatti), funny, always ready with a quip or a historical fact. I feel like whatever indictment of the system the show is trying to make, gets lost in that it all seems fun and exciting.

I think the show is supposed to be an entertaining cockfight moreso than a morality play. The Magnificent Bastard thing is good TV IMO.

Digital Prophet
Apr 16, 2006

"..and then came the black crow, herald of doom, who foretold the coming of death."


After watching all of season 1 I don't really understand what this show is trying to accomplish, but I like all of the cast so much that im now watching season 2 and still not sure what the point of it all is. Everyone is rich? Nobody is rich in the things that matter? I really don't know.

Longbaugh01
Jul 13, 2001

"Surprise, muthafucka."
Say what you will about this show, but it has a fantastic cast and they bring in some great actors like Eric Bogosian and David Strathairn.

Last Buffalo
Nov 7, 2011
Just watched most of this season, and not sure what the show is really aiming to do.

The Ax character, who they set up as this cutthroat bad-rear end capitalist, gets a ton of ham-fisted setups to come off as moral, woke, and personable. It doesn't really make him seem more layered or deep (he still speaks in goofy anecdotes and pedestrian movie references like the rest of the cast), and then he's not really evil enough to make you worry about what he's going to do. Part of the problem with this character is that they repeatedly paint him as a super-genius who has sherlock holmes powers of financial plays, and all his schemes come from inspired plays instead of any exploitation of actual flaws in the system. It basically refuses to touch the idea that wealth begets wealth, and guys like him in real life don't need to be a brilliant cyborg to go from 10 billion to 15. There's no real sense of the market or global trends, or what backchannel deals actually entail. Ax just buys a hot dog at a ballpark, tastes that the bun is stale, and then makes a genius investment in wheat futures that somehow helps out some mailman from the old neighborhood while screwing over a shrill dude who was sitting in the other team's section.


I keep thinking about the movie Margin Call, which is also set in the world of complicated finance but is really about egos and selfish power moves. That movie managed to avoid being a technical slog, but still pulled real, effective drama out of characters so bought into a system of money and predatory behavior while still feeling real. In Billions, none of their deals feel real because they're all approached by Bobby or the autistic gender binary analyst hearing two facts about a thing and then smugly making some play that everyone else is floored by. It never feels real enough to conjure the actual drama that comes with powerful people very disconnected with the consequences of their actions running amuck.

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Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
Billions feels like a show about smart people that's written by dumb people. Has there been anything in the season as horrible as the guy who uses his bare hands to pick up dog poo poo instead of like, his sleeve? That's when I stopped watching.

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